Mark Dougherty owes me parts...and answers

[Superstang460]

I would just like to begin by saying I attempted to conduct this in a private gentleman manner, but after months of being ignored, I'm turning to the forum in hope for some results. Mark Dougherty was recommended to me by Factory Five directly as he is knowledgable and experienced in Factory Five builds.

Mark Dougherty and I agreed to have him work on my half completed GTM back in May 2010. I was informed by Mark that it would require a few months and about $6000 to complete to the agreed level of completion. I then loaded my GTM and all the parts into my enclosed trailer and took it to Mark's shop, about 5-6 hours away, for him to use for storage of all my parts. Mark was paid $4,400 CASH up front and I did receive a receipt. I was informed that some complications arose and more time would be needed, which is totally expected with any partial build. After going months with no answers to texts or calls or emails I became more concerned. When Mark did finally answer me he would state that he's travelling and progress is being made.

By September 2011 I paid for the SECOND trailer registration for my trailer and forwarded it to Mark since it was still sitting unused. I just wanted my GTM back, as I am paying $824/ month on it and have not seen it for almost a year and a half. At his rate of work, I could have picked at it in my own Garage and been completed faster, while being able to at least see my own car. At that point we played hit and miss about when he would be available to get my GTM back. It was not until I attended SEMA in NOV 2011 and personally spoke to Dave Smith on the matter and he was in agreement that I just need to get my car back and find another builder to actually finish it.

Mark did bring my GTM, trailer, and parts back to me late November. The car I received was in worse condition than when I gave it to him. I gave him a running, starting, driving GTM in need of finishing and fine tuning. I received my car back with no wiring harness, leaving it unable to start or drive. Even the door strikers were removed and the doors were duct taped shut, when he received it with functioning doors installed. Many odds and ends that were present before were not returned such as the glass quarter windows, extra set of headlight lenses, complete GTM badge set, side windows, door strikers and a few other items like my stock LS engine covers and my BBS wheel valve stem adapters which are needed to air up the custom rims.

Also, Mark received my car with the carbon fiber gauge pod blank and uncut and the autometer guages still in boxes. The gauges were installed for me, but I noticed it had a 120MPH speedo with 284 miles on it and a dented, used, and scratched bezel and no sending units on the gauges are installed or present. I also provided 3 boxes of dynomat material and it was installed on the belly pans of my GTM in cut off scrap pieces, rather than full sheets, not actually providing anything other than added weight, wasted time and money. I have spent hours itemizing the parts and part numbers that are now damaged and missing and they total $1166 from FFR.

So to sum it up, I was told a few months to get my GTM ready for paint for $6000 and what I received was after 17 months and paying $4400 cash was $1166 of missing parts that I need to repurchase and now take more time to redo correctly and a car that is even more disassembled.

I spoke to Dave Smith at length in early January again after Mark has not replied to any texts, phone calls, emails, facebook messages, etc. Dave agreed to contact Mark on my behalf to remedy this situation but have still not heard from Mark. Why is he hiding and ignoring me for my legit concerns? Everything I have stated here is factual and can be backed up with actual pictures, text conversations, phone records and itemized documentation. What can I do to see results? I dont feel it was fair to Pay Mark $4400 to take 17 months to pick parts off of my car and then ignore me. As stated before, I remained calm and gentleman like for months, but now drastic measures must be taken.

Any and all comments, suggestions, and advice is welcome. Thank you in advance for the help, and hope for a resolution.

Bobby Roward
(814)397-0496
superstang460@yahoo.com

[riptide motorsport]

We'll see if he shows up.......post it over on ffcars.com also............should be interesting. ......... he is a business, sue him if you have to..........Steven

[Superstang460]

I usually frequent ffcars.com but am a newbie to this forum, which I hope does not take away from the validity of my concerns. I was in hope that Mark himself would view this on a public forum in his line of work and actually attempt a resolution, since I'm being ignored on a private level. I will seek legal represntation if not resolved very shortly.
Thank you for your advice. I will do exactly that.

[efnfast]

Hate to say it, but you may very well just have to say f-it and move on.

I spent 3k at NCPainter (you don't know him, he used to be a forum vendor and well respected until he went under) for carbon fiber panels. I sent him my panels to make carbon fiber molds out of. I got back my original panels, with about 1lb of fiberglass resin'd onto them, and a skin of carbon fiber ontop of that. Um, okay, lol.

I've learned several times that, when building, if somebody won't take a credit card and cuts off communication, chances are you're screwed.

[michael everson]

I hope this thread does not deter Factory Five from reccomending builders to their customers.
I get a large number of my customers through them. It is very much appreciated.
Mike

[Fredj]

Superstang, take your car to Mike Everson. He is the most honest kit builder I know. I have seen him build every kit FFR5 has to offer. (no I don't work for Mike)

[skullandbones]

Superstang460,

Let me preface this post with a disclaimer. I don't mean to offend or get into your personal business if you don't want to share the info.

Having said that, why did you decide to take the partial build to Mark Dougherty? I know things happen. I have a story of my own. But it sounds like you were making a lot of progress and I don't understand to what level of completion really meant. It sounds like you just didn't have the time to dedicate to it (at the time) and didn't want it sitting with no progress made. If the builder had just left your project sitting, things would be better for you now. You could just pick up from where you stopped. But it sounds like there were a couple of efforts to get started on the completion project and then abandoned due to other priorities (perhaps faster projects with immediate payout). Also, they had $4400 of yours. I have been in a similar situation with my project 200 miles away and sitting in a garage gathering dust for 6 months. The only difference is mine eventually got done with good results. I hope you find a reliable builder to finish your dream car going forward. He should probably give you the $4400 back as a jesture of good faith (and the parts). It's a business owner's responsibility to reconcile with a customer when a project goes bad to maintain their rep. It sounds like you have the evidence to back up what you said. I guess you don't mind Mark D. telling his side or you wouldn't have posted this. Right? Good luck, WEK.

[OCCPete]

I'm sure there is more than one side of this story. Mark is a great guy and has had many satisfied customers.

Pete

[NHolds]

Sue him. That's unacceptable. I had a fellow FFR owner do some work to mine when I was unable to do it, and it went flawlessly. Would recommend him anytime. You need your deposit back immediately.

[WIS89]

Bobby-

I apologize for the long answer in advance.

I will also preface my remarks by saying that I detest lawyers! I have never encountered one who wasn't self serving, and more interested in getting paid, than in seeing justice served. Therefore I avoid lawyers at every turn, and have taken things to extreme measures to avoid utilizing an attorney. Now I know there are good attorneys out there, it is just that I have never seen one.

So, with all of that said, I suggest you begin interviewing lawyers at once! I believe you have demonstrated patience, offered several opportunities at resolution, and as you have demonstrated here, that you are actually in worse position then when you began this endeavor. I am curious if you have a contract to which you can point to in your defense. If not, you are going to be challenged mightily to explain what damages were done to you.

In basic contract law when one party defaults, both sides are expected to be placed back into the position they were in before the contract was consummated. Therefore, you can reasonably expect your car and all parts returned, as well as any payments refunded. That is a pretty basic fundamental part of contract law. So, despite the lost time, you should be able to expect this at a minimum. The unfortunate reality is that it may cost you more in legal fees to collect the amount owed, and value of parts you are now shorted. Also, in most contract law, each side must eat their own legal fees. So you get hosed again. It is unlikely that you will ever be able to prove fraud, and therefore treble damages or be able to collect a punitive award of any kind. Therefore, you must carefully weigh the potential result -- roughly $5,500.00 returned, against the potential legal fees, and the time you will sink down this rat hole trying to get to that end.

He will likely produce some sort of evidence demonstrating work that was done, and an hourly rate expected to be paid for that work. It will be your job do demonstrate that he has actually underperformed according to your contract, and other expectations. Before and after documentation and pictures would be beneficial in this effort. Again, a judge could actually award him a certain amount of money for work performed, even though it was substandard, and will cause you more work to fix what "work" that was actually performed. On top of that, there is another vagary in our legal system, and that is the arbitrary behavior of judges. There is simply no telling how any judge will act or rule in any case, even with an overwhelming line of facts lining up on one side of the matter. In other words, let's assume for a second that you have said things exactly as they are, and the other party has absolutely nothing to defend his actions or positions, and you have all sorts of documentation to back up your side of the story. A judge can rule in the most capricious manner, and defy all that you think reasonable when making a ruling. You may walk out of court banging your head against the wall trying to understand what just happened.

Again, I think an attorney would be helpful, even with my personal feelings about them. However, I would set a certain amount of money aside for this pursuit, and then let it go; otherwise you will be throwing good money after bad. And, this whole thing will make you feel awful while you are going through it. You must also weigh that "cost" to you as well. Nevertheless, it may serve you well to get started with a legal action to at least get this matter in the open, and see where things go.

You have other options at your disposal. You have the ability to take this issue to the court of public opinion, and perhaps this is where you have the most leverage. You have newspapers, the news media, and other outlets that can act on your behalf and "tell your story," and cause a significant amount of havoc until you feel you have been restored. This of course can backfire as well, and you must balance the "costs" of this course of action as well.

I am only going based upon what you have said here. I do not know either of you, and therefore have no dog in the fight. However, I have been wronged by various parties in the past, and know how it feels. You have some choices to make, and tools at your disposal. So does he. Take the time to balance those two facts out, and take the path that is best suited to your personality, cash, and stomach. Whatever path you choose, I wish you luck, because you will surely need at least some of that to get through this, even if everything is exactly as you have described, and there is no "other side" to this story.

I hope you are able to be restored in some manner, and that the other side is able to find a way that he can remain something close to whole as well, for both of your sake. Best of luck to you, and I can certainly empathize!

Regards,

Steve

[TCL1999]

I would suggest small claims court, given the amount owed.

[Silversmith]

Nice to know, Will deff. stay clear of Mark till I hear of your situation being resolved. As I see it ,the 3 main sites for roadster lovers (here, ffr forums.com, culb cobra.com) can't abide deception from members! It will destroy the brotherhood! We depend on each other; for parts, work, advice, and friendship!! If you haven't done so yet. I would strongly suggest that you also post your problems about Mark on the other web sites!! All need to know !!! I buy & sell w/out pay-pal because I beleive in our members honesty on all 3 sites. I haven't been burned by or burned any vendor/member. I'm not a vendor, but I'm sending out some parts to Gopher today! & selling some rims to Michael Everson next week. No pre-pay! because I beleive in US!! Honor is everything! It's what makes us special in the automotive world!! Mark! I hope you are reading this thread! Because 5000+ members from all over the world will be looking @ YOU!! to make this right!!!! If 460 is wrong, prove it to us!

[crash]

I'm sorry to hear of your issues Mr. Roward. I know you wouldn't post something like this unless you were at your wits end. At the same time, these are very difficult times for some people, and situations can change very quickly. Not making excuses for Mr. Dougherty, just offering a possible explanation.

The GTM is a difficult build...for anybody...and things like door mounting can take a LONG time to get right. It sounds like he was doing the right things, but something went wrong on his end.

Obviously I would withold any third party judgements as Mr. Dougherty has not had his say yet, but it does sound like he, at least, owes you some money back if he didn't complete what you contracted/bargained for.

Hopefully all this gets settled. It would be a shame for someone to get a bad reputation over a few thousand dollars.

Since you, Mr. Roward, have posted a public complaint about a fellow forum member, could you also make sure and update this thread when, and if, everything is settled to your satisfaction? Things on the internet can last, virtually, forever, so if things DO end up working out, I think you, at that point, would owe it to Mr. Dougherty to update this thread.


BTW- Unless someone on here states that they are a lawyer, they are not. Check your local laws as it is highly likely that a lawyer will not be allowed to be involved with a claim for this amount of money involved, if this issue ever does go to a court proceeding.

I know you feel like you have done what you could to resolve this, but just try and think outside your box for a moment as to why he may have done what he did. I have no inside info, but material things like cars and money can quickly become insignificant when/if a serious issue arises with family. Now that you have forced his hand, at least give the guy a chance to tell his side of the story.

[Wayne Presley]

I called Mark a few minutes ago and he picked up on the second ring. He's helping out on a 33 build right now and said he would answer when gets home to his computer tonight.

I've known Mark for years and this is the first I've ever heard anyone say anything not glowing about him. Ever.

[Martin]

I just emailed Mark with links to the threads. Hope it gets resolved satisfactorily for both parties amicably.

Martin

[Superstang460]

Thank you all so very much for your concerns and input. As stated before I have attempted to remain private and gentleman in this situation and the last thing I want is another useless online fight. I did post my facts and views of the situation on here in an effort to finally get a reply from Mark Dougherty, as I know he frequents this forum in his line of work. I do want him to explain and come to an agreement and that has not occured in private. Dave Smith suggested I do post online in a professional manner since that is what this forum is for, so that is exactly what I have done in effort to be compensated.

Skullandbones, I purchaed my GTM from a fellow member that started the project. I was certain I could handle it but was informed that Mark has GTM experience and could build it quickly and for a fair cost. That is why I chose to have him perform work on my car. Had I known parts would have been pulled from my car(like the 120mph used speedo that replaced my new 200mph speedo) I would have taken the last year and a half to assemble it myself. I agree with you as to what should occur, but only time will tell.

OCCpete, I understand that Mark has had many satisfied customers and thats why I had no problem paying in advance. I absolutely want Mark's side of this story as well as his plan of attack to make things right.

Silversmith, I have also posted this on ffcars.com to increase results and inform others. I am awaiting Mark's side of the story and I have left all of my personal contact information as I have nothing to hide or avoid. I am open to any and all discussion.

Crash, I will absolutely inform all of any resolution, as my intent is not to verbally bash or slander anyone. I would even settle for a Factory Five credit from Mark for half of the cost involved and replacement costs for parts I had but were not returned. If such an agreement could occur, I would never speak ill of this situation again and concider it a closed case. Unfortunately I have been ignored via texts, calls, emails, facebook, forums, etc. so I had to seek results from higher up. I am not trying to get something for nothing, and in fact would settle for a 50/50 wash and just be done with it, but I will not be ignored.

I want to thank each and every one of you for your concerns and input, and I will post any and all progess or info received. Hoping for the best.

Bobby

[Superstang460]

Wayne and Martin,
Thank you both for contacting him for a resolution. I hope to hear from him personally and will update with everything.
Thanks again

[Martin]

I just heard back from Mark on email. He said the same thing to me as he did to Wayne. He will finish work and respond tonight.

I am like Wayne, I have never heard a bad word about Mark before.

Martin

[Dave Smith]

I've been away from the forum and in a constant state of apologizing for not getting to messages on time. Still, I am working thru PM's and I saw this thread. Bobby, I remember speaking with you at SEMA and again on the phone about this. I do believe this is a case of poor communication and I can assure you that Mark is a solid guy and will rectify the situation.

I would say to the forum that Mark has been an outstanding member of the community, he has helped many many people with their builds and while I wish this situation was different, it stands in stark contrast to my personal history with him. I hope the two of you reach an accord and part friends. In any case, the charter of this forum is fellowship and I would ask both of you to do your best to meet in the middle. Bobby, you seem like a great guy and very reasonable. I know Mark to be a sincere and honest craftsman. Best of luck to you both, and where there is a discrepancy of parts whether missing or unknown, I will be happy to step in and help.

Dave Smith

[Superstang460]

Dave, thank you very much for that offer to help and kind words. I do feel that I have been very patient and level headed in this matter. I truly hope Mark and I can meet in the middle like gentlemen and no harm caused. If that does occur, I will gladly change this post to "Mark Dougherty made things right" and never speak ill of this occurance, since it seems to be an isolated happening. I am anxiously awaiting to be contacted tonight and do not like that it had to come down to a public affair to get attention. Hoping for the best, as always, and will post results when they are reach.
Thanks again
Bobby

[Ray]

It appears that this thread has already run it's course and that a resolution may be in hand. Since the only place for this thread to go now is down, I'm going to close it to further comments.

Ray

PS: I have sent Mark a message asking him if he would like to respond to this publicly. Once I hear from him (and if he wishes to reply) I'll open the thread for his response.