Paint body on chassis question

[MB750]

I've read many posts suggesting I take the body off and put it on a buck to paint. Considering the frequency of this suggestion, I'm guessing it's for a good reason.

My problem is I'm having trouble with the logistics of it. If masking off the entire chassis is the only reason to remove the body before paint, I may weigh that as an option because of limited garage space.

I've got a three car garage, I get the two-car side for me and my stuff, and the 3rd stall is my wife's. There's a divider wall so I'm isolated on my side. If I were to paint per the status quo, the body, doors, trunk, and hood would be on my side for paint. The chassis would have to go into my wife's side along with my Harley, and wifey gets to park outside for a while. I'm also worried about body damage during re-installation.

Considering I've never taken on a project like this I'd like to take my time and make sure I do everything the best I'm capable. I'm sure the pros can bang out everything from gelcoat to the last coat of clear in a weekend, but I'm planning on taking a few weeks, possibly a month or two.

So aside from masking off everything, is there anything else justifying using the body buck paint process?

[edwardb]

I've had four cars painted. Two body on. Two body off. Each of the shop's preference. Then the truck which I helped a buddy paint. We left the cab on but painted the rest of the pieces loose. My observations and experience is the main issue is masking. And don't underestimate the effort. To do it right, you'll de-mask and re-mask at least a couple time. Maybe three times. One of the challenges of painting is to keep "junk" out of the paint. Especially the final color and clear. So it's typically necessary to start with clean masking before those steps. With body on, the amount of masking is significant. Much more than if the body is off. And if you do it right, with body on you'll want to mask the underside as well otherwise it will get overspray. Other challenges are the amount of sanding dust you'll get that will bypass the masking pretty much whatever you do. And finally for final cut and buff, where you're typically wet sanding, that slurry will find it's way into every crevice and crack and be another thing to clean up.

In the end, at least from what I've seen, it's about time and labor. That's why the shops that do a bunch of these almost universally do them body off. Putting the body back on after paint isn't a big deal if you're careful.

[CraigS]

I can certainly see the advantage of less masking body on a buck. But when my MkII was painted I asked the painter. He had painted a friends FFR body off because it was in the build process and he had a buck for the main body. My car was on the road driving and his reply was, if I paint a Miata, the body can't
be removed. Also I think that if a shop does a lot of these they build bracketry to hold the doors, trunk, and hood in the proper position. That would be a lot of work for a one off paint job.

[MB750]

Thanks fellas, that lends some perspective I hadn't considered.

[rich grsc]

Considering I've never taken on a project like this I'd like to take my time and make sure I do everything the best I'm capable. I'm sure the pros can bang out everything from gelcoat to the last coat of clear in a weekend, but I'm planning on taking a few weeks, possibly a month or two.

If you think this can be done in a week or two, you are in for a rude awakening. This takes even the pro's 6-8 weeks

[MB750]

Considering I've never taken on a project like this I'd like to take my time and make sure I do everything the best I'm capable. I'm sure the pros can bang out everything from gelcoat to the last coat of clear in a weekend, but I'm planning on taking a few weeks, possibly a month or two.

If you think this can be done in a week or two, you are in for a rude awakening. This takes even the pro's 6-8 weeks

Thanks Rich, that's even more perspective I didn't have before. And even more justification to keep the body on during the work because it sounds like I'll have my garage converted into a paint booth even longer than I estimated.

[mrmustang]

I've read many posts suggesting I take the body off and put it on a buck to paint. Considering the frequency of this suggestion, I'm guessing it's for a good reason.

My problem is I'm having trouble with the logistics of it. If masking off the entire chassis is the only reason to remove the body before paint, I may weigh that as an option because of limited garage space.

I've got a three car garage, I get the two-car side for me and my stuff, and the 3rd stall is my wife's. There's a divider wall so I'm isolated on my side. If I were to paint per the status quo, the body, doors, trunk, and hood would be on my side for paint. The chassis would have to go into my wife's side along with my Harley, and wifey gets to park outside for a while. I'm also worried about body damage during re-installation.

Considering I've never taken on a project like this I'd like to take my time and make sure I do everything the best I'm capable. I'm sure the pros can bang out everything from gelcoat to the last coat of clear in a weekend, but I'm planning on taking a few weeks, possibly a month or two.

So aside from masking off everything, is there anything else justifying using the body buck paint process?

I'm a retired bodyshop owner, among my other career and job experiences and can tell you that less is more. When it comes to sanding, prepping, priming, resanding, priming, sanding again, priming, sanding yet again, priming, sanding a final time, then blowing off, wiping down, and painting a Cobra body, you'll find that doing so with the body off the chassis is smart way to go. Why, simple, contamination and overspray, sanding dust gets everywhere, places that you sometimes cannot ever get them out of. This is the bain of a professional paint shops painter, imagine what happens when dust you did not get rid of all of a sudden gets dislodged from it's hiding place while you are using your HVLP paint gun (I like Sata digitals). Overspray, the same thing, you might think you have the chassis masked completely off and no overspray can get in, but after you are done, you find a nice layer on your gauges, inner chassis area, nice, shiny engine compartment, etc. No, best to take the extra effort and pull the body and shoot it on a buck.
Now, you did not ask, but since you are planning to do your own paint work, let's talk safety, first, what you are spraying is both explosive, but also able to be absorbed by your skin. Automotive grade respirator (I recommend a full face mask version, look at 3M), full hooded paint suit, explosive proof lights and intake/exhaust fans....The life you safe might just be more than your own, as the material you are spraying is microscopic and could easily contaminate not only your garage (is it really that well sealed from the rest of the house, want to make a bet), but your living spaces, and the area around your home for 300 yards (typical overspray travel distance).

Time wise, anything less than 100-125-200 (200 would be an early FFR body) hours from start to finish, and you are not doing it right. PERIOD!
Properly prepped for sprayout, wipe down, sealer, final wipe down, wait for it to flash over, first of many coats of base color coats (light coats, always light, overlaping coats), spray, flash over, spray, flash over, rinse and repeat until you are happy with the color coverage. Walk away for the rest of the day, come back the next day and mask off for stripes, 4-6 hours later, hopefully you masked off everything you don't want contrasting color on, if not, you'll be back to square one, if all goes well, you'll be ready for clear soon. Again, now is the time to make any touch ups before the clear goes on, did you run the base, is there dirt within, perhaps a moth landed perfectly in the middle of the hood (yup, it happened, I've posted pictures 14 years ago) when you walked out of your booth (in your case homemade).......Again, if all goes well, you are ready for clear, a wipe down with a lint free tach cloth and you are ready. Did you remember to really clean your paint gun, check your desiccant, change the tip on your gun? Remember to mix your clear properly to take into account the temp and humidity level for the time you are spraying out.....Remember, light coats, lots of overlapping light coats, waiting in between for them to properly flash over in between........Ok, now that you are happy, it's time to walk away again, don't go back, don't look at it for 24 hours, I know it will be hard, but you should not be going in and out of the area, each time you open the access to it, you are potentially allowing contaminants to leaking in, same goes with wanting to touch it, like a moth to a flame, you are drawn to it......I cannot tell you how many times I had to wet sand other peoples projects because of their fingerprints.......Now, doesn't this all sound like it can be done in a weekend?

You made it this far, now you know what happens when I have three cups of coffee between 5-7am, then sit down to read and respond to threads like this....Sound like I'm nuts, perhaps, but I'm also spot on, as the other professional, and other painters will tell you.

Regardless, here is wishing you the best on your adventure.


Bill S.

[DanQ]

I painted my '33 Hot Rod in my triple garage at home. It took roughly one month from final detail sanding to having the body completely painted and ready to install back on the chassis. This does not count all the body work and sanding leading up to prepping for primer. I kept the rolling chassis outside in my driveway wrapped under a tarp, and it still took all three bays of my garage to do this. This was my second paint job
I have done myself at home, and it is not easy, but rewarding when finally done. It turns out to be one of the biggest cost savings of the entire build.
206351206354206356206357206358

[Jeff Kleiner]

....I'm sure the pros can bang out everything from gelcoat to the last coat of clear in a weekend, but I'm planning on taking a few weeks, possibly a month or two.



Matt, put down the pipe my friend because you're delusional! :D

Just to give you an idea of the process here's my sequence:

Body off; knock down parting lines with 36grit flapper disc then work outward with 80 on a DA. Block entire body with 80. Trim excess flashing around wheel openings and shape. Trim and shape transition from front wheel openings to oil cooler scoop. Cut back and shape roll at front and rear cowl. Clean up flanges around hood, doors and trunk. Commence bodywork on parting lines with Rage Gold. Block doors flat and roll the door tops shaping with filler. Cut hood scoop opening and fill gap with 3m HSRF. Block hood flat. Block trunk lid.

Reinstall body then fit windshield and roll bars, opening or closing up the cutouts as necessary. Install doors, hood and trunk lid and make initial trim (they'll probably be on and off at least twice during this part). Adjust body position as required while adjusting the doors. Once that's done install sidepipes and trim openings to match. Remove pipes, windshield and roll bars then begin the bodywork necessary to match the body contours to the doors, hood and trunk lid. Establish centerline and place scoop.

With the body back off apply 3 full coats of high build polyester primer. Fill the pinholes and correct any bodywork that shows afterwards then block fully with 150. Apply 3 full coats of 2K urethane primer surfacer then block fully with 320 dry and 600 wet. Spray one wet coat of 2K sealer then nib sand as necessary. Apply 3 coats of base...if doing stripes spray stripe color down the center then layout and mask for stripes and follow with main body color. Unmask and apply 3 coats of clear while being mindful of the 24 hour recoat window. Afterwards depending on what clear you use (some you can't start on for at least 48 hours) you'll cut and buff.

That ain't a weekend, not even a looooong weekend! :p And we haven't even begun to discuss the required cure times necessary for some of the products.

I'm happy to see that Paul chimed in because he's had cars done both ways. As he said even with diligent masking painting body on still exposes the chassis to dust and overspray. Beyond that though is the challenge of access to spray...over the body is easy but getting into the jambs around the doors, hood and trunk, under the cowls, around the wheel wells, etc. will be the hard parts. It can and has been done body on but life will be much easier if you can figure out the logistics of doing it with it off.

Here's a suggestion and something that I sometimes do---to save space just drop the body back on the chassis for storage or even if you just need to leave it for a day or week at a time. I often have 3 cars in process at a time. I have 3 bucks but by the time I have 3 bodies on bucks and 3 go carts they are occupying 6 spaces so I can free up room by dropping the in process body back on the chassis until I'm ready to work on it again.

Good luck man!

Jeff

[Mike.Bray]

We started off with the body off for the rough bodywork/trim/fill/Slick Sand/few coats of primer/block and it went quick and easy. After that my painter wanted to paint with the body on which looking back on was a mistake. When you have the chassis in go kart stage it is ridiculously easy to put the body on and take it off. I was at the body shop with a friends MKIV and we installed the body with four of us in 5 minutes.

My car came home from paint last spring and I'm still cleaning. Dust gets everywhere and I'm wondering if I will ever get it truly clean. And as mentioned above the amount of masking with the body on is not to be taken lightly.

Best thing you can do is follow Jeff's advice above.

[Rebostar]

I just delivered my "ready to paint" body and panels to the paint shop this morning. I got the body to the point where "I" would have painted it, then took it to a pro with a body shop & paint booth.
As mentioned above with all the wet sanding, cut and buff, not to metion the overspray (which WILL get everywhere on the chassis no matter how well you wrap it) you will be much happier with painting the body off the frame.
Good luck.
Happy trails

206372206373

[MB750]

Well dang, now y'all got me thinking I'm gonna need a small storage garage to store my chassis while I bang out all this painting. Nobody around me has garage space they'd rent out, and I don't think my wife would be happy parking her chariot Mazda 3 in the driveway for a few months. :p

[runamuk]

With the body back off apply 3 full coats of high build polyester primer. Fill the pinholes and correct any bodywork that shows afterwards then block fully with 150. Apply 3 full coats of 2K urethane primer surfacer then block fully with 320 dry and 600 wet. Spray one wet coat of 2K sealer then nib sand as necessary. Apply 3 coats of base...if doing stripes spray stripe color down the center then layout and mask for stripes and follow with main body color. Unmask and apply 3 coats of clear while being mindful of the 24 hour recoat window. Afterwards depending on what clear you use (some you can't start on for at least 48 hours) you'll cut and buff.

Good luck man!

Jeff

This is a great thread, lots of good info

I have a question about stripes. How do you mark for a centerline from initial body work to the point you have applied primer.
I've painted several cars, but I've never done stripes. I know I can install one of the rubber bumpers in the hood opening at the center line, maybe make a small groove at the top and bottom of the trunk opening to mark the body center line, but what about the hood and trunk themselves?

[Jeff Kleiner]

This is a great thread, lots of good info

I have a question about stripes. How do you mark for a centerline from initial body work to the point you have applied primer.
I've painted several cars, but I've never done stripes. I know I can install one of the rubber bumpers in the hood opening at the center line, maybe make a small groove at the top and bottom of the trunk opening to mark the body center line, but what about the hood and trunk themselves?

Body on with the car all mocked up prior to breaking it down for paint, in particular with the hood and trunk lid installed, adjusted and their gaps set. Put the license plate lamp on and mark it's center where it meets the trunk lid. Measure between the headlights and mark that center (It'll be 17 7/8" ;)). Put away the fancy lasers and go old school---pull a string all the way between those two points and that's your center line.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=206388&d=1726846214

Once the centerline is determined I make reference marks so that I can come back to the same points with the body off; an 1/8" hole on the trunk lid's license plate light pad (gets covered by the lamp), at the front of the trunk opening on the flange (gets covered by the trunk seal) at the front and rear flanges of the hood opening (get covered either by one of the rubber bumpers or "D" seal weatherstrip. I put one at the very front where the lip of the radiator opening turns under. Measure off of the two inside holes for the rollbars and make note so that you can get back to where you were. Once the stripe color is laid down the center---yes I do that first---you lay the hood and trunk lid into their openings and equalize their gaps all the way around then pull the string front to rear, checking to be sure that it is hitting your reference holes. You now have your centerline to begin laying out from. Easy peasy!

Here's the string back on center with the hood and trunk in place:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188291&d=1691160591

And the stripe lines established:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188292&d=1691160619

Finally all masked:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188293&d=1691160643

One other thing; while doing the mockup prior to breaking it all down use this centerline to place the hood scoop...hopefully you haven't already tried to locate it by putting it in the center of the hood because the center of the hood is NOT on the centerline of the car.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=206389&d=1726846271


Hope that helps. It's easier to do it than it is to sit here and type out how to do it!

Jeff

[rkl20678]

Question for Jeff. I really like your blunt step by step. I am just starting and doing body prep first and planning to do body off paint. You mention adjusting the body to get the doors aligned and that is something that I have not seen in FFR guidelines. It makes great sense. If I follow the logic, move the rocker panels as necessary to get a good door alignment and then pin the body to the frame with new location holes to be used later when the body comes back to the frame at the latter part of the build?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Question for Jeff. I really like your blunt step by step. I am just starting and doing body prep first and planning to do body off paint. You mention adjusting the body to get the doors aligned and that is something that I have not seen in FFR guidelines. It makes great sense. If I follow the logic, move the rocker panels as necessary to get a good door alignment and then pin the body to the frame with new location holes to be used later when the body comes back to the frame at the latter part of the build?

Yes. Basically, on the passenger side you'll push the rocker panel in as far as possible ahead of the door and fasten it then let the rear ahead of the back wheel lay at rest and while adjusting the door move it in or out as necessary. On the driver's side push the rocker in as far as possible and stake it but you'll end up pulling the body out about 3/4" at the rear.

Jeff

[GoDadGo]

Here are my O.C.D. Bodywork videos.
These are from beginning to end and beyond.
I went extremely slow because I never did bodywork.
95% of what I did was with the advice of Sir Jeff Kleiner.
5% of what I did (Drivers Door Fix) was my idea which worked.

https://youtu.be/_3sLamdkIFg

https://youtu.be/meBYeI96_A8

https://youtu.be/6QXWP5H8mT0

https://youtu.be/6UK6K2jcwTU

https://youtu.be/po1Bb2_XDDk

https://youtu.be/FVMCA4_UZHU

https://youtu.be/V38Jajo_qOQ

https://youtu.be/ELFJDOVKb4g

https://youtu.be/A0Jb1tjjtPU

https://youtu.be/9WEe6-wdNtA

https://youtu.be/iwslgKJUaKc

Good Luck & Happy Sanding!

[MB750]

Here are my O.C.D. Bodywork videos.
These are from beginning to end and beyond.
I went extremely slow because I never did bodywork.
95% of what I did was with the advice of Sir Jeff Kleiner.
5% of what I did (Drivers Door Fix) was my idea which worked.

https://youtu.be/_3sLamdkIFg

https://youtu.be/meBYeI96_A8

https://youtu.be/6QXWP5H8mT0

https://youtu.be/6UK6K2jcwTU

https://youtu.be/po1Bb2_XDDk

https://youtu.be/FVMCA4_UZHU

https://youtu.be/V38Jajo_qOQ

https://youtu.be/ELFJDOVKb4g

https://youtu.be/A0Jb1tjjtPU

https://youtu.be/9WEe6-wdNtA

https://youtu.be/iwslgKJUaKc

Good Luck & Happy Sanding!

Thank you very much for posting this series.

[GoDadGo]

Thank you very much for posting this series.

You are more than welcome.

[rkl20678]

Got it and thank you. Learn from those who have gone before you. A slight misalignment might not be noticed by most but for the builder, they will always see it whenever they look at their “accomplishment”. Don’t want be that guy.