Fuel Injected vs Carbureted

[jpschramek]

Hey all,
As part of my decision making process for an engine for my Type 65 Build i'm trying to decide if I want to go the EFI route or keep it classic and go with carbs. Anyone have thoughts on this? Which way did you go and would you do the same again?

[Jeff Kleiner]

I first got involved with Factory Five in 2001. The question of carb vs EFI was a hot topic then and 23 years later it's still being debated without a definitive answer!

I've built cars both ways but I'm just gonna' sit back and listen...again :D :D :D

Jeff

[gbranham]

If you're leaning carb for the vintage look primarily, but want the modern driveability of EFI, look at Holley Sniper, Edelbrock ProFlo4, or the ultimate, Inglese stack injection. No right or wrong answer. For me, I'd rather tune with a laptop than tune a carburetor.

[john42]

I went Holley Sniper 2 on mine cause I wanted the vintage look with modern EFI. After all the fooling around with the Sniper 2 I think I would have been just fine with a carb and up and running much quicker. That said, what I really really wanted was the Inglese stack injection but that was just too far beyond my budget.

[JohnK]

I'll refrain from giving an opinion here, as this is a very personal decision and a LOT has already been written about it. You can search the forum and spend hours reading all the opinions on the matter (and still be no closer to making a decision :p). You don't say where you're located, but I will offer one caution about 8-stacks. Check to se what your state's title/registration process calls for, in terms of engine emissions controls. California, for example, requires a closed-loop PCV system which can be difficult to accomplish with stack injection.

[Jphoenix]

I chose Holley Sniper 2 on my BPE 302, effortless install, fired right up first time yesterday - no problem. Ran it again today - it's at about 10% learning right now, no issues.

[PNWTim]

I think I will ring in from a different perspective. Above and beyond aesthetics (I readily admit a 427 side oilier is a much prettier engine than a Coyote or LS) there are a lot of other considerations to bear in mind. An injected motor has much more complexity to it. You have to have some kind of controller, alternate fueling set up (probably with return lines), O2 bungs in headers, a power center and all the additional wiring and cabling which goes with it. On my last build I was going to go stroker with Proflo as a compromise but ultimately went with an LS and never looked back. I'm putting a Coyote in my Type 65 simply because I like the integrated technology. Like Jeff K. said above, this is a hot topic regardless of the body and frame which goes around it.

[GoDadGo]

On an old school push rod V8 the carburetor is a good option if you know how to tune it. The big issue with running one is your operations ranges, specifically temperature and humidity variations and especially elevation changes. My operation range is between 10'0" below sea level to has high as 200'0" above sea level. Our seasonal driving temperatures are typically some place between 50-F to 95-F.

If you want a vintage look and want to run Fuel Injection, then consider the Super Sniper. Just remember a push rod Fuel Injected Engine tends to runs better with wider Lobe Separation Angle camshafts. This means you really need a camshaft that has between 112-115 L.S.A. Also, intake durations at .050" should be at or below 230 while exhaust durations at .050" can be up to 240. Low RPM style single plane intakes work well with this type of system so consider running an Edelbrock Torker II.

If you go radical with your camshaft then please know that these systems will likely need to be custom turned.

https://www.holley.com/selectors/sniper_efi_selector/holley_squarebore_4150_and_4160/

Good Luck!

[narly1]

On an old school push rod V8, the carburetor is a good option if you know how to tune it.

Not knowing how to tune a carb is where I was at when I built my engine. Getting my ProFlo4 running was fairly straightforward once I sorted out an initial low fuel pressure issue.

Earl

[Jacob McCrea]

I went with OEM Ford EEC-IV fuel injection on a Ford Motorsports crate engine for the following reasons:

1. Other than 8-stack systems, I don't think there's a better-looking intake system than a tubular GT40.
2. Integrating the Ron Francis engine harness with the Ron Francis chassis harness was straightforward.
3. Every conceivable problem with EEC-IV fuel injection has been discussed to death, buried, disinterred and discussed to death again on the Mustang forums.
4. Hiding the EEC-IV computer under the dash wasn't terribly difficult.
5. I know enough to jet a 2-cycle motocross bike pretty well, but beyond that don't know much about carbs, and honestly didn't feel like figuring them out.
6. An 8-stack system was beyond what I could responsibly afford.

The only problem was having to fabricate an elbow/intake spacer so that the throttle body would clear the hood.

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205719

[edwardb]

Across five builds, I've had both. EFI for me all the way. I invested a lot of time and $$ into learning how to tune carbs including a wide band oxygen sensor since there are not many shops left that do it. I was reasonably successful. But after trying EFI haven't gone back. The added effort (electric pump, return line, wiring, etc.) isn't that much if done during the build. I get the authenticity argument. But for me driveability and reliability are more important. And with a little effort, most systems can be made to look presentable.

Full disclosure, my three EFI builds have been factory. Coyote and LS. So relatively bullet proof since the OE's do all the engineering. Most aftermarket EFI systems also work well, but based on my observations and helping with a few, definitely a little more variability in how much effort required to get acceptable results.

[cv2065]

I had a carb last build and loved it. I thought about moving to something more conventional this build and went through a few different choices from stacked EFI to Coyote, to Godzilla and Terminator. Still think about the Godzilla as another forum member is going down that road. :cool: BUT came back to the carb. I enjoy tuning them and love the lope. The on-board computer of EFI controls all of the fun stuff, tames the lope a little too much for me and takes out a lot of the idle rumpity rump which I love.

Lots to love about any engine combination, just depends on what you are looking for.

[Guardm16]

Holley Sniper 2. Add the Sniper EFI Hyperspark 2 Ignition, Hyperspark distributor and above all the Power Distribution Module (PDM) The entire system is plug and play. Started on the first crank, never had to adjust timing, just let the system learn.
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[Fman]

I was also on the fence like you and went Pro Flo 4 EFI, after 6500 miles it has been really good. Turn the key and it runs good with excellent throttle response. The PF4 also allows you to adjust base and advanced timing on the tablet which is a nice feature. However, I also am a fan of carbs, they have been around for decades and run good when properly tuned. EFI will also be more expensive than a carb. Good luck with your decision.

[RoadRacer]

Haha love it. Mine is probably least popular option but I went for carb because I want reliability and to be able to fix anything by side of the road with a tie wrap and a screwdriver. Everyone i know with EFI always has a malfunctioning sensor or a new tune in their laptop or some mapping problem or.. another damn sensor playing up. From the outside it looks a nightmare.

I bolted on my carb and haven’t touched it since.

Haha ��

[GoDadGo]

I bolted on my carb and haven’t touched it since.


Amen Brother James, Amen!

On another note, have you finished your new exhaust?

[Skuzzy]

EFI is absolutely more complex than a carb, with more potential points of failure available. However, carbs are not without potential issues. The worst one that comes to mind is the potential of boiling out of the bowls. Ethanol's boiling point is pretty low (173F/78C). I have seen more than one Cobra boil out after a hard run and parking, in warm temperatures. It can be unnerving to open the hood and see fuel pooling on the intake manifold.

I am not saying it happens every time. I am saying there is potential for it and it can happen.

Then again, a 60PSI fuel leak with EFI is also a bit unnerving.

If I could get unblended fuel, reliably, I would go carb without hesitation.

[jpschramek]

Love all the answers given - not one of them is wrong. Thanks all for the input. I’ve narrowed my decision down to EFI ( or maybe carbs???)

[FFinisher]

I first got involved with Factory Five in 2001. The question of carb vs EFI was a hot topic then and 23 years later it's still being debated without a definitive answer!

I've built cars both ways but I'm just gonna' sit back and listen...again :D :D :D

Jeff
Yeah what he said. I have a strong opinion on this subject. But am keeping it to myself.

[defilade]

I have carbs and I love them, but that's because I wanted the vintage experience and everything that comes with it - extra gasoline smells, black exhaust tips, occasional carb tuning, etc. I had zero interest in fuel injection.

At the other end of the spectrum is a Coyote engine, because everything is pre-packaged and works out of the box. Definitely easier! Adding EFI to an older engine seems like it's somewhere in between because you still have to tinker, but you're doing it with software.

[ehansen007]

I know what your saying but for the record I passed CA smog (which is all visual) with my 8 stack fuel injection. Just need to make sure that you have a closed PCV system.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/677797bc-aff0-46e3-b9f1-28ba6220f625/46c47a9e-cc1d-40d6-bb9d-2669ead52d39.jpg

[ehansen007]

I will also say that I was surprised that the Sniper system that managed my Hilborn 8-stack would not adjust to altitude very well or quickly. So if you're driving in the mountains, make sure your EFI system can adjust to pressure changes as it influences the mixture.

I did like how easily the EFI setup and started up, but it did seem to have some bugs around getting enough voltage which I solved with a bigger battery. Still, you'll most likely need to add a higher end ignition system and fuel pump and run a return like with a bigger pickup in the tank so it's a big investment for some. For my latest build I'm going to start with a carb and then maybe 8-stack IDA's if I really want the challenge. We'll see. Pros and Cons to both!

[ggunter]

When I changed my motor to a 427, I thought of all the advantages of a modern out of the box EFI and chose the Sniper. Loved the learning capability, the quick start advantage, no choke to wait to warm up. It all worked great for 1000 miles. Then the gremlins showed up and did their song and dance. first thing was the oxygen sensor. Not a biggy but it did cost me a tow to get home. Then it would decide to idle up to 2000 rpm whenever it felt like it. Usually that would be in a parking lot or a car show, where you are trying to go slow, and maneuver around and not draw attention to yourself but is hard to do when the engine is blaring. Sometimes it would come back down in 10 or 15 seconds, or you could let out the clutch a bit and pull it down and it would stay. Did all the tech assist with Holley and reset all the parameters again and again with the same results. I just got tired of fiddling with it and yanked it off and put on a 750 double pumper. My big complaint is Holley sold this unit as a "bolt on, out of the box unit, with minimal wiring and hookup" and it was all that, but the problems that arose were not worth it to me. I'm sure it could have been fixed with enough time and effort. I would rather put that effort into driving my car. Maybe the Holley Sniper II is better. If they made a Sniper II, maybe there was something wrong with Sniper I. I like my carburetor, even if I have to wait 30 seconds for the choke to open.

[john42]

Maybe the Holley Sniper II is better. If they made a Sniper II, maybe there was something wrong with Sniper I.

I had all the same issues with my Sniper II. Random high idles (always at a car show) and random stalls at stop lights. It was pretty bad in the beginning. After a solid day on the dyno and months of fiddling it's been behaving itself for the last 6 months. I like to say the "Self" in a Self Tuning Sniper system is "yourself".

[ggunter]

Glad you got it squared away. While I love the concept of an out of the box, bolt on let's go EFI is a great thought, there is still work to do from a development standpoint.

[gbranham]

These well-documented issues with Sniper EFI, coupled with the experience of Mike Bray and others on the forum who have been in the aftermarket EFI game for years, convinced me to go the Edelbrock ProFlo4 route. While my car isn't complete yet (just now working on wiring all the EFI bits), the feedback I'm getting from forum members who have it seem to love it. The fuel rail and injector route seems like a much better EFI design than what Sniper offers. Time will tell for me, I guess.

Greg

[Presdough]

Across five builds, I've had both. EFI for me all the way. I invested a lot of time and $$ into learning how to tune carbs including a wide band oxygen sensor since there are not many shops left that do it. I was reasonably successful. But after trying EFI haven't gone back. The added effort (electric pump, return line, wiring, etc.) isn't that much if done during the build. I get the authenticity argument. But for me driveability and reliability are more important. And with a little effort, most systems can be made to look presentable.

Full disclosure, my three EFI builds have been factory. Coyote and LS. So relatively bullet proof since the OE's do all the engineering. Most aftermarket EFI systems also work well, but based on my observations and helping with a few, definitely a little more variability in how much effort required to get acceptable results.

I initially ran a Mass-Flow injection system but it laid down after 149 miles. Pro-M was no help at all. Their harness was Ford Racing so I went to their site for a wiring diagram. There was a help line number and they were VERY helpful. I brought the car to the school I worked at and my high school students built a very nice system from the surviving Mass-Flow parts and wrecking yard pieces. Kudos to Ford Racing! They were able to explain to 17 year olds what the goal was and how to achieve it.