The Gentleman's Roadster, Bismarck Build: Dash finished

[Highplainsdakota]

Hi Guys and Gals!

I've been a lurker here for a long time but I'm pulling the trigger on my Gentleman's Roadster build. It will be a MK4 with IRS, 363 Stroker built by Prestige Motorsports, Tremec TKX, painted British Racing Green with a tan leather interior, and several gadgets to customize the build. I have a few great ideas I hope I can realize with all of your help during the process! While I can't say it's a "Spare no expense" build, I would be quick to upgrade parts or add-ons that make the car more comfortable, or mechanically better in some way. Please keep those ideas coming.

This car will likely never be used for racing, autocross, drag, etc. Around town and spirited street driving is the goal, so comfort over cornering rigidity, etc. This is why I'm going with IRS, "touring suspension", and no front or rear swaybars.

I have been collecting tools and extra parts, rivet guns, etc, and have been spending a lot of time on aftermarket parts that improve the overall build. I have not ordered my kit yet as I'm still in the planning phase so the build goes quicker without hiccups. After talking to the FFR tech guys, I should have all the box choices decided upon for my build. I am expecting delivery of my 4 post bendpak car lift next week, and I recently built a gantry crane capable of about 2000 lbs for lifting things. I have my engine hoist with a new bottle jack and most of the tools at this time. I have recently built a new shop/storage unit so it should be plenty of space and nice and clean. I'm also going to do a time lapse of the build with a GoPro.

To start out, here are some options I have decided upon:

GasN headers and side pipes
Willwood brakes front and rear
Power steering, power brakes
3.55 rear gearing with 0.81 overdrive in the TKX
Mcleod twin disk RST clutch, 28 lb flywheel
Eaton detroit truetrac differential
Mechanical throttle linkage from M. Forte parts
seat heaters
17" chrome halibrand style wheels from Vintagewheelsus, in all chrome 17 x 9, 17 x 11.
Nitto 555 G2 tires
Dead pedal
Front Battery location from Breeze

I need your help to get this off the ground with a few critical decisions:

1: I don't like the shifter position with the forward bent shifter arm. The tremec TKX offers 3 shifter positions. The standard rear choice, an option to turn the rear shifter 180 degrees from the most rear position moving the shifter 2.5" forward, and a front position that is 4" farther forward which is called a "mid shift" location by tremec. I want to do a Gated shifter set up that I will fabricate. Trying to decide between the middle or front position for the tremec. Is the forward position too far forward? I'm worried about the shifter knob hitting the dash because I will have to have a longer shifter arm to make the gated shifter possible (the gated shifter plate will likely be mounted about 3-4" above the normal transmission tunnel cover.)

2: Are there any aftermarket parts I should source to help me with the first phase of the build to improve the roadster (up until engine installation). There seems to be a lot of conversation about tie rod ends being a problem.

3: Many seem to complain about the e-brake that comes with the kit. I'm looking at the electronic e-brake options. I have a Jeep CJ7 with a crappy e-brake and it's miserable. I would really like a secure e-brake.

Thanks for all the opinions, I'll start adding pictures shortly.

[cfriedman67]

I used an E-Stopp electric parking brake and it works great. I was never able to get the manual to work well. I saw just read recently that someone fabricated their own electric parking brake that they seem very happy with as well.

[Blitzboy54]

I used an E-Stopp electric parking brake and it works great. I was never able to get the manual to work well. I saw just read recently that someone fabricated their own electric parking brake that they seem very happy with as well.

Yeah, that was me. I should pull that out of my build thread and move it to the main forum when it's fully done.


Hey Dakota

Congrats on your new build and welcome. You are far ahead of the game by knowing what you want your car to be before starting. That is huge honestly. The dual clutch is fine but probably overkill. These cars are so light. Other than that I would recommend reading as many build threads as possible. Also another pro tip, if you have questions and want to search the forum it is more effective to go to google and type Factory Five then what you are looking for than using the search function here. It just does a better job of filtering. Also pulls stuff from the other board which is nice.

Love green by the way.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Hi Guys and Gals!

I've been a lurker here for a long time but I'm pulling the trigger on my Gentleman's Roadster build. It will be a MK4 with IRS, 363 Stroker built by Prestige Motorsports, Tremec TKX, painted British Racing Green with a tan leather interior, and several gadgets to customize the build. I have a few great ideas I hope I can realize with all of your help during the process! While I can't say it's a "Spare no expense" build, I would be quick to upgrade parts or add-ons that make the car more comfortable, or mechanically better in some way. Please keep those ideas coming.

This car will likely never be used for racing, autocross, drag, etc. Around town and spirited street driving is the goal, so comfort over cornering rigidity, etc. This is why I'm going with IRS, "touring suspension", and no front or rear swaybars. Swaybars have no negative impact on ride comfort but will help counter the increased roll that will occur due to the soft springs. Something to consider...

I have been collecting tools and extra parts, rivet guns, etc, and have been spending a lot of time on aftermarket parts that improve the overall build. I have not ordered my kit yet as I'm still in the planning phase so the build goes quicker without hiccups. After talking to the FFR tech guys, I should have all the box choices decided upon for my build. I am expecting delivery of my 4 post bendpak car lift next week, and I recently built a gantry crane capable of about 2000 lbs for lifting things. I have my engine hoist with a new bottle jack and most of the tools at this time. I have recently built a new shop/storage unit so it should be plenty of space and nice and clean. I'm also going to do a time lapse of the build with a GoPro.

To start out, here are some options I have decided upon:

GasN headers and side pipes
Willwood brakes front and rear
Power steering, power brakes
3.55 rear gearing with 0.81 overdrive in the TKX Might want to rethink this. That combination will result in an overall final drive ratio in fifth gear of 2.87:1. That'll be getting a little busy at Interstate speeds of 75-80 MPH (it'll be running 2,800-3,000 RPM). My opinion is that the best combination with a 3.55 rear is the TCET17765 with a 2.87 first and .68 fifth.
Mcleod twin disk RST clutch, 28 lb flywheel I agree with Jesse "Blitzboy"
Eaton detroit truetrac differential
Mechanical throttle linkage from M. Forte parts
seat heaters
17" chrome halibrand style wheels from Vintagewheelsus, in all chrome 17 x 9, 17 x 11.
Nitto 555 G2 tires
Dead pedal
Front Battery location from Breeze

I need your help to get this off the ground with a few critical decisions:

1: I don't like the shifter position with the forward bent shifter arm. The tremec TKX offers 3 shifter positions. The standard rear choice, an option to turn the rear shifter 180 degrees from the most rear position moving the shifter 2.5" forward, and a front position that is 4" farther forward which is called a "mid shift" location by tremec. I want to do a Gated shifter set up that I will fabricate. Trying to decide between the middle or front position for the tremec. Is the forward position too far forward? I'm worried about the shifter knob hitting the dash because I will have to have a longer shifter arm to make the gated shifter possible (the gated shifter plate will likely be mounted about 3-4" above the normal transmission tunnel cover.)

2: Are there any aftermarket parts I should source to help me with the first phase of the build to improve the roadster (up until engine installation). There seems to be a lot of conversation about tie rod ends being a problem. There is not a problem with the supplied tie rod ends.

3: Many seem to complain about the e-brake that comes with the kit. I'm looking at the electronic e-brake options. I have a Jeep CJ7 with a crappy e-brake and it's miserable. I would really like a secure e-brake.

Thanks for all the opinions, I'll start adding pictures shortly.

Good luck and have fun

Jeff

[JMD]

Welcome and I look forward to following along with your build.

I also recommend the .68 5th gear ratio instead of the .81. Especially with that size engine and what I assume will be a conservative camshaft. It will be happier turning lower rpm on the highway and so will you.

I have a SBF with the TKX midshift (the furthest forward position) and love it. I actually put on a shift stick with a slight dogleg forward to push it up another 3/4" or so (I have long arms). No issues hitting the dash. Feel free to visit my build thread link below for pics.

I also recommend all the Breeze products listed on the first post of my build thread. I didn't buy parts just to buy them and always had a reason to use them instead of the FFR supplied part. I would highly recommend any aftermarket parts I used that are listed in my build. I think they are well worth the additional expense.

[Highplainsdakota]

Thanks guys! Really great comments so far. I honestly thought I would have things farther along by now, but since every decision seems to impact some other decision, I'm trying to be as complete in my choices as possible.

Very interesting about the front and rear sway bars. I will have to dig on that a little. I don't mine buying and installing them if they benefit more than they detract. I suppose I can always take them off, but it's probably harder to install them once the car is finished.

I was worried about the clutch. I really have no way of knowing the difference in pedal feel etc. Prestige recommended this one, while I would have probably chosen the Mcleod super street pro single disk. I understand a 363 Stroker can make a lot of power, but I'm not trying to over build this. Unlikely I would abuse the car enough to damage the single disk clutch. I wasn't sure how firm the horse power recommendations are on those. I'll probably make that switch to the single disk super street pro.

I have been all over the place on the transmission gearing and rear gears. For a while I was going to have Mike Forte build me a 3.31 with the 0.68 5th, but didn't want to lose the ability to use 5th in a low RPM cruising gear 45-60 mph. Since the horse power of my engine may end up closer to 500 or above when I was shooting for 400-450, I thought a 3.31 rear would tame the potential wheel spin from a dead stop. It's hard to ignore the overwhelming agreement on the 3.55 gearing on multiple forums. Higher numerical rear gears than 3.55 are definitely out. Switching a rear gear is possible, while I'm married to the transmission. All that being said, I had thought hard about the 0.68 5th and may make that change back.

Any comments on flywheel weight? Many recommend 22-24 lbs, where Prestige priced out my build with a 28 lb. I understand the rotating mass helps first gear starts in lower RPM without killing the engine, but you may lose on throttle responsiveness. Seemed like an OK compromise to me.

[robmccon]

I too, did the midshift kit on the TKX (forward-most position). I am only running a 5 1/2" handle, but here's a couple of pics to give you an idea. I did have to cut one of the tunnel braces to make room. Good luck!
205711 205712

[Highplainsdakota]

I too, did the midshift kit on the TKX (forward-most position). I am only running a 5 1/2" handle, but here's a couple of pics to give you an idea. I did have to cut one of the tunnel braces to make room. Good luck!
205711 205712

Thanks! I think I have to go this route. I'm going to try fabricate a gated shifter set up. If I have to make a slight rearward bend because the shifter arm is too long I don't think it will be too bad. I appreciate the pictures from you and others.

[Mike.Bray]

I used a 22 lb flywheel after consulting with Mike Forte and have been very happy with it. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ram-1529lw

Went with this clutch from Ram https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ram-88794hdt

And used this hydraulic throwout bearing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/til-60-6102

IMO, Ram and Tilton are miles ahead of McLeod in quality. I've never had an issue with Ram or Tilton while I can't say the same for McLeod.

If you go with the Tilton HTB use a 13/16" bore MC.

[MB750]

I was always under the impression that the Gentleman's Cobra has an under-car exhaust.

You do you, that's the best part about Cobra builds though. Good luck. :cool:

[Highplainsdakota]

Interesting you bring that up Matt! I can't make too many assumptions before I get the frame in my shop, but I am toying with the idea of doing both side pipes and under car exhaust. The two options I can figure is having GasN welding in an exhaust cutout between the headers and the side pipe attachment, running that exhaust through the transmission tunnel to some quiet mufflers, and dumping it in front or behind the rear tires. The benefit would be starting this up in my garage and driving through my neighborhood going to and from work during later hours, and as an added benefit cool the side pipes before you exit the car.

I have seen a post where someone drilled two 3-4" holes in the rear tubular frame and welded in horizontal steel tube for exhaust to pass. Seems like it would work. It depends how possible this is, and how quiet I can actually make this car. If this is possible, I may order the "standard" volume pipes from GasN instead of the touring if I have a quiet switch in the car.

I was considering shopping around for used headers and side pipes just to see how loud the car is before I make a decision on this option.

[Highplainsdakota]

On the topic of clutches, RAM seems to be a recommended clutch brand by the group here and Mike Forte. That would suggest the Powergrip Performance Clutch Kits that are rated up to 550 which should be plenty. It's a single disk with organic on one side and metallic friction on the pressure side. It does say there can be chatter in low RPMs especially with low numerical rear gears. Is this the clutch you would all recommend for my 363 stroker? I was thinking this would make about 450 hp and torque but Prestige suggests it may be north of 500.

[Mike.Bray]

On the topic of clutches, RAM seems to be a recommended clutch brand by the group here and Mike Forte. That would suggest the Powergrip Performance Clutch Kits that are rated up to 550 which should be plenty. It's a single disk with organic on one side and metallic friction on the pressure side. It does say there can be chatter in low RPMs especially with low numerical rear gears. Is this the clutch you would all recommend for my 363 stroker? I was thinking this would make about 450 hp and torque but Prestige suggests it may be north of 500.

I can tell you my Ram clutch (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ram-88794hdt) with the Tilton HTB is smooth as silk. It's actually kind of scary how smooth is actuates.

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

I ordered the Forward Firewall, wider F panels for wide front tires, and heavier transmission tunnel for the new shifter location from FFMetal.

On the subject of tires. I'm going with Vintagewheelsus.com Cobra 427 Halibrand style wheels (not pin drive), 17x9 fronts, 17x11 rears. These are supposed to fit the MK4. I chose Nitto 555G2 tires to fit my purposes. Everyone agrees with the rear tire size of 315/35/17. Many threads say the 275/40/17 fit the MK4 but can rub. Since I'm installing the wide F panels from FFMetal, should this combo work? I'll be using power steering and could block the rack. I wonder how much turning radius I would lose? Would I be better off doing 255/40/17 to avoid problems? Thanks

[Jeff Kleiner]

Update:

I ordered the Forward Firewall, wider F panels for wide front tires, and heavier transmission tunnel for the new shifter location from FFMetal.

On the subject of tires. I'm going with Vintagewheelsus.com Cobra 427 Halibrand style wheels (not pin drive), 17x9 fronts, 17x11 rears. These are supposed to fit the MK4. I chose Nitto 555G2 tires to fit my purposes. Everyone agrees with the rear tire size of 315/35/17. Many threads say the 275/40/17 fit the MK4 but can rub. Since I'm installing the wide F panels from FFMetal, should this combo work? I'll be using power steering and could block the rack. I wonder how much turning radius I would lose? Would I be better off doing 255/40/17 to avoid problems? Thanks

245, 255 and 275 will all rub when the wheel is at or very near full lock. As I've said before it's not an issue in normal use unless your idea of "normal use" includes trying to make multipoint turnarounds inside of your 2 car garage! You do need to make sure that your bodywork guy knows to trim the excess from the front wheel well returns.

Jeff

[Mike.Bray]

Update:

I ordered the Forward Firewall, wider F panels for wide front tires, and heavier transmission tunnel for the new shifter location from FFMetal.

On the subject of tires. I'm going with Vintagewheelsus.com Cobra 427 Halibrand style wheels (not pin drive), 17x9 fronts, 17x11 rears. These are supposed to fit the MK4. I chose Nitto 555G2 tires to fit my purposes. Everyone agrees with the rear tire size of 315/35/17. Many threads say the 275/40/17 fit the MK4 but can rub. Since I'm installing the wide F panels from FFMetal, should this combo work? I'll be using power steering and could block the rack. I wonder how much turning radius I would lose? Would I be better off doing 255/40/17 to avoid problems? Thanks

I have Nitto NT555 G2 275/40/17 on the front with the stock F panels and they do rub at full lock. I installed some steering limiters from Breeze, I think two per side. I don't even notice even when making a U-turn. https://breezeautomotive.com/shop/steering-rack-travel-limit-spacer/

My wheels are from Vintage and they are gorgeous. Good company to deal with also. My drive pin lugs were the wrong thread, I called and he sent replacements right out no questions asked. Of course I returned to wrong ones but he didn't seem too concerned, only that I was a happy customer.

[Highplainsdakota]

Good to know! Also happy to hear Vintagewheelsus is a good company to deal with. Happy to support all those who support the FFR community. I'll go with the 275 then because Vintagewheels will mount and balance them for me. Maybe the F-Panel was unnecessary, but oh well. Probably won't hurt to put it on.

Another update: I make what's likely to be my first of several Breezeautotmotive orders.

Lower radiator support mount
Engine compartment battery kit
Radiator cowl cover
steering rack travel limit spacer x 2
dead pedal kit
hand deburring tool
wilwood remote brake balance bar adjuster

At this point I believe I'm just a conversation with Mike Forte away from ordering my roadster kit from FFR! I'm hoping to get most of these parts delivered, sorted, stored, and the frame set up in my shop for the start of the build around January 1.

[Mike.Bray]

Some additional Breeze items that are worth considering. I used all of these are was very pleased.

Radiator Cowl Cover Kit
Hinged Radiator Mounting Kit
Seat Mounts
Offset Rack Mounting Kit
Cockpit Storage Cubby Kit
Lower Radiator Hose Kit
Lower Radiator Hose Bracket
Billet Side View Mirrors (expensive but very nice and give a good view to the rear)
Roll Bar Kit (personal preference, I don't like the paperclip look of the FFR bars)

[cv2065]

I had the RAM Powergrip on the last build, and it was great. I went with the Centerforce Dual Friction this time. I second what Mike recommended from Breeze adding the Radiator Aluminum Panel and Under Dash Filler panel from Replica Parts (Michael Everson). 520 Speedworks also offers a precut Lexan windshield alternative which I'm considering. AND, don't forget the turn signal from Frank at i.e.427. Really nice parts. \

Have fun!

[cv2065]

IMO, Ram and Tilton are miles ahead of McLeod in quality. I've never had an issue with Ram or Tilton while I can't say the same for McLeod.

I'll say the same about McLeod. Received two flywheels from them. One was rusted and the other had the dowel holes drilled two large. Their recommendation was to add loctite and use it anyway. No thanks.

[Highplainsdakota]

Update to build:

I ordered my complete kit from FFR on 10/30/24, so that's a big step! Several more orders followed:

427 shelby 5 lug polished wheels, spinners, and lug covers from Vintagewheelsus.com (17x9, 17x11), with mounted and balanced Nitto 555 G2 tires front and rear. (275/40/17; 315/35/17).

Brushed stainless headers and polished stainless side pipes (Touring sound level) from GasN. E Stopp Brake kit, Radiator fan shroud, hinged radiator mounting kit, rear cubby divider in trunk, lower radiator hose and support.

I also ordered the center section, and rear end pieces from Mike Forte's Parts connection, front sway bar, black caliper front and rear Wilwood brakes, and triple billet reservoir system. I decided to go with 3.31 gears in the rear and I'm having him install an Eaton detroit truetrac diff. That should give me better RPM range on the highway and not choke out my 363 too much on the low end.

I also stumbled across 427 Hardtops and I'm very interested in adding that to my build sheet. Being in North Dakota, a little cover may give me an extra month of drivability on each side of summer. They use Revivalmotoricons.com in New Hampshire to source them in the US for the FFR MK4. I have called them and the guy seems very personable and excited about this product.

Finally, I got a quote today to paint my MK4.....$30,000-$50,000!!! Is this reasonable? I'm sure they're good but I was not expecting that.

[fauxbra5.0]

I got a quote today to paint my MK4.....$30,000-$50,000!!! Is this reasonable? I'm sure they're good but I was not expecting that.

Not knowing what paint youre doing makes it difficult to say with certainty, but $30k+ for paint seems extremely high. Sounds more like a "we dont want your business, but if you're dumb enough to pay it, we'll do it" price. There are many painters in here that are familiar with the cars, and are a bit more friendlier to your wallet.

[Blitzboy54]

Update to build:



Finally, I got a quote today to paint my MK4.....$30,000-$50,000!!! Is this reasonable? I'm sure they're good but I was not expecting that.


No, that is absolutely insane. I know you can ship it to CT, even with shipping the paint would be half of you lower range there.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Finally, I got a quote today to paint my MK4.....$30,000-$50,000!!! Is this reasonable?

No. Not even close.

Jeff

[JMD]

I've been talking to several people about doing the prep bodywork and paint and the range I'm finding is between $15,000-$20,000 in my area.

[Highplainsdakota]

About Paint:

I was hoping for $8,000-$10,000 for paint, but was prepared for $12,000 or slightly higher. $30K was bad, then he mentioned a 24 month lead time and 6 months to paint it. Won't be going with that business. I do understand that everything is more expensive and I have heard a gallon of paint may run up to $3,000 depending on what you are doing.

It did get me thinking, and I think I need to approach this question differently. I gather the brand of paint matters when selecting color from an R/G/B and additives standpoint. You apparently can't give a paint code and get the same color unless you are using the same brand. I'm sure there are different brands that are high quality, and maybe some types of paint that work best on our vinyl resin bodies. Does anyone have recommendations on Brands of paint/clearcoat that works on our cars? Do most recommend painting with the body on the car? I've seen the FFR video #1 unpacking your kit and saw how much the car bends under its own weight. I assume this could crack the coating? Any red flags to watch out for as far as lead time? What if someone says they can block, primer, paint, clear coat in a few weeks? Is that possible or are they taking shortcuts? When I search for painters, what am I looking for? This is a weird questions, but are they all autobody shops or should I be seeking hot rod/custom car businesses? I'm not even sure I'm searching for the right type of business.

I guess I don't speak the language enough to know what I am buying based on what they are promising. I want a very nice, single color paint job with some slight metalic flake. I'm willing to pay for multiple clear coats to give it depth and shine. I will be adding the 427 Hard top as well to the paint job. When I call more places, I will ask the following questions: What brand of primer, paint, clear coat would you use on this car? What is your clear coat process? What is your lead time? How long does the process take? What is your cost for your best work? is there a cheaper option that is also very good?

As always I appreciate all your help on here with any information you can provide, especially what type of paint and clear coat I should be shopping for and works on our cars. Should I recommend they paint my car with the body installed on the chassis? Of course, if anyone knows a paint specialist in North Dakota or even Minnesota, Minneapolis would be the closest reasonable city to go for paint.

[JMD]

Paint is definitely a niche market and I advise taking time to find the right person. Just like plumbers and foundation work, always get at least 3 bids. Prices are all over the place and a little homework can save you thousands or tens of thousands. If you look long enough and hard enough you will find someone who will do a good job for a reasonable price...but that might take some time to figure out. You're asking all the right questions. Take the time to get educated, that's where I am in the process myself.

As for the paint price/materials, don't feel like you have to go with the crazy expensive stuff. As in everything there is a point of diminishing return on how much things cost. A good quality midrange paint will look great if laid down properly. As long as you have a decent product it's really more about the painter and proper application than the paint. Steer clear if someone is trying to sell you on crazy expensive materials...unless you want the perfect showcar, that is.

[Highplainsdakota]

Yeah I agree with everything you said. I guess if someone can say "Definitely DON'T paint with "X-brand or style of clearcoat" or else it will crack, de-bond, etc.", I would appreciate that. There seems to be comments about the flexibility or rigidity of our bodies from the painters I have spoken with that is making them think of certain methods of painting, but I'm not sure.

[Mike.Bray]

I went through a heck of a time with my paint & bodywork as I've documented in my build thread. What I learned:

No matter how good the shop is it always comes down to the people. After the initial bodywork there was a change in employees and the new ones turned out to be wankers. Ultimately it comes down to the owner and he wasn't minding the (body) store so it all got out of control.

Painters usually align themselves with one brand like PPG or BASF and are very uncomfortable using something different. A lot of times they have local support for whatever brand they are aligned with. In my case the shop used BASF who own several brands such as R&M. While researching colors the owner suggested we look at House of Kolor and said they had used it before and had no issues with it. HOK also has a tech guy based here locally so that's what we did.

Most paints are pigmented. Others are dyed, known as candies. We went with a HOK candy blue applied over a silver ground coat.

They tried to spray the stripes on top of the candy blue without enough sealer (clear) and the dye in the blue bled through the white. Problem number one.

Problem number two, the shop made a very fundamental error, like painting 101, and used two different brands for the silver ground coat and the candy basecoat. Paints are chemicals and are engineered to work together. Mixing brands caused an adhesion problem and they had to strip the entire car.

For round two they (finally) worked with the local HOK tech guy and used all HOK paint and clearcoat. This time everything turned out gorgeous. They also blamed all of the issues on using HOK instead of their preferred brand, conveniently forgetting they were the ones that suggested HOK!

IMO this shop was too big and more focused on the car building side than the paint & body side. I think it's better to work with a smaller dedicated paint & body shop, there's a father & son shop not far from me that's done a few FFR Cobras for very fair money and they've turned out gorgeous.

FWIW, automotive paint can range from a few hundred dollars a gallon to a few thousand. The HOK paint we used was not only spectacular but was very reasonable at $600/gal.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Rule #1 from somebody who has done "a few" ;) Go with someone who has done these cars before (but not just one---and Corvettes don't count---apples and oranges). There are lots of nuances along with products and process that are known to work. You don't want to be a guinea pig.

Jeff

[Highplainsdakota]

Quick update:

Purchased Motion Raceworks Steering quick release based on i.e.427's recommendations as he is building my turn signal hub part.

I've decided to move forward with a hard top for the cobra from 427hardtops. May buy me 2 more months of driving weather up here in ND.

Questions:

Please help direct me to a forum thread discussing exhaust routing to the rear of my MK4. I can't seem to find one using the search function. I remember seeing a post one time with someone drilling 3" holes in the tubular rear frame for another round pipe welded in for a pass through. I'm very interested in this particular mod for the roadster. I would keep the side pipes, but add dual exhaust cutouts (really acting as side pipe cutoffs, where open is both exhaust systems and closed is only stealth exhaust), that run exhaust to the quietest muffler/maybe cat system I can fit in the roadster. I don't care if it dumps exhaust in front or behind the rear tire, out the back etc. I'd rather not even see the hidden exhaust on the outside. I would even give up trunk space to wall off an area for the muffler system. Stealth exhaust used to come and go from my neighborhood for sound and on longer drives when I don't need the extra power or sound. If I can accomplish this, I may go with standard volume side pipes instead of touring versions as I would have a quieter option. As a possible added benefit, it may prevent the loss of around 50 horse power from using touring side pipes because the open position allows exhaust to go through both systems reducing restriction to some degree.

1: Can it be done while still having side pipes
2: Where is the best place to rout the exhaust
3: Where can I mount the muffler or mufflers (I don't mind a Y pipe with one exhaust to one large muffler as this is only about the quietest exhaust possible in a cobra)
4: Any downside to doing this? Will my ECU constantly be struggling with the engine if the cutouts are turned on and off? Is there a way to have the cut out switch change to a different ECU profile (could be a valet mode that limits throttle/power/rev limit so I could let others drive the car?)

Thanks guys. I'll keep looking

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

My "Build Date" was yesterday December 7th, so shipping should be soon. I have completed my body buck and received my wheels and tires in the mail. Mike Forte is working on the IRS rear end which should be done soon. We are also working to finalize the build sheet on the 363 engine.

I was scrolling the forums last night and noticed a page about FFR coming out with a Mark 5. What!? I have to admit I was a little salty about this. I specifically asked them in a phone call one month ago if a Mark V was in the works, and if so, I would wait and get the new model if it isn't too far in the future. I got a hard no. Now my complete kit isn't even shipped yet and they have a Mark V? Damn. I don't think there's anything to do about it as I've already ordered panels from Breeze, Wheels, E-Stopp brake kit, and other parts that fit the MK4, not to mention the hard top I have on order! Bad timing I guess.


207280
207281
207282

[nashuanuke]

Good to know! Also happy to hear Vintagewheelsus is a good company to deal with. Happy to support all those who support the FFR community. I'll go with the 275 then because Vintagewheels will mount and balance them for me. Maybe the F-Panel was unnecessary, but oh well. Probably won't hurt to put it on.

Another update: I make what's likely to be my first of several Breezeautotmotive orders.

Lower radiator support mount
Engine compartment battery kit
Radiator cowl cover
steering rack travel limit spacer x 2
dead pedal kit
hand deburring tool
wilwood remote brake balance bar adjuster

At this point I believe I'm just a conversation with Mike Forte away from ordering my roadster kit from FFR! I'm hoping to get most of these parts delivered, sorted, stored, and the frame set up in my shop for the start of the build around January 1.

yup, was going to say you'll end up getting a lot of stuff from Mark

[danmas]

Quick update:

Purchased Motion Raceworks Steering quick release based on i.e.427's recommendations as he is building my turn signal hub part.

Part number? I was early in the process and I want quick release. If I can make mine work with that I would be delighted…

[John Ibele]

Since you’re still finalizing your 363 details and given your previous comments I’ll mention this. Give some thought to cam selection. A big cam will work against your ‘sneak out of the neighborhood’ metric in two ways. More overlap means more exhaust noise, and higher usable RPM. I have a mild cam and can have 4th pull me through the neighborhood at ~1600 rpm. That combined with Georgie’s touring pipes makes for a pretty tame sound. Cobras never sneak but I don’t have to piss off the neighbors if I don’t want to. I still get my 400+ hp up top. I love the 3.55 / .68 combo. Based on my experience you made a great choice with the True Trak.

[Blitzboy54]

Since you’re still finalizing your 363 details and given your previous comments I’ll mention this. Give some thought to cam selection. A big cam will work against your ‘sneak out of the neighborhood’ metric in two ways. More overlap means more exhaust noise, and higher usable RPM. I have a mild cam and can have 4th pull me through the neighborhood at ~1600 rpm. That combined with Georgie’s touring pipes makes for a pretty tame sound. Cobras never sneak but I don’t have to piss off the neighbors if I don’t want to. I still get my 400+ hp up top. I love the 3.55 / .68 combo. Based on my experience you made a great choice with the True Trak.

John's spittin truth here.

Part of the reason I went with the Coyote the second time. I wanted a tamer sounding engine.

[JMD]

Update:

My "Build Date" was yesterday December 7th, so shipping should be soon. I have completed my body buck and received my wheels and tires in the mail. Mike Forte is working on the IRS rear end which should be done soon. We are also working to finalize the build sheet on the 363 engine.

I was scrolling the forums last night and noticed a page about FFR coming out with a Mark 5. What!? I have to admit I was a little salty about this. I specifically asked them in a phone call one month ago if a Mark V was in the works, and if so, I would wait and get the new model if it isn't too far in the future. I got a hard no. Now my complete kit isn't even shipped yet and they have a Mark V? Damn. I don't think there's anything to do about it as I've already ordered panels from Breeze, Wheels, E-Stopp brake kit, and other parts that fit the MK4, not to mention the hard top I have on order! Bad timing I guess.


207280
207281
207282

That's a totally understandable frustration. As a business owner and FFR customer I can see it from both sides, but it's hard to feel/be deliberately misled. Having the option would have been nice. I had some similar feelings when I first heard of the Mk5, but I will say that after looking at the new chassis and reading about it I'm happy with the Mk4. For my use I don't think the Mk5 would serve me any better. I don't think most people would be able to tell the difference unless you are racing it. From my perspective they simplified their manufacturing by merging this chassis with the coupe chassis so they have less diversity of parts, etc. It being a 'better chassis' by using more of a space frame design is a happy byproduct. But again, I don't think 99% of us are ever really going to be able to tell the difference. It's the new and shiny thing...but better? Meh. Maybe a little. Maybe I'm wrong, that's just my take on it. Although I will say a bigger footbox is nice...but you can modify the one on the Mk4 if that's really a problem.

Although a body without all the big, nasty mold seams would have been nice...

[Highplainsdakota]

Thanks JMD!

I totally agree with your above statement. There are ways to roll this out but someone loses either way. In the end, I chose to build an MK4 and benefit from the 12 years of build threads and knowledge gained. I also have purchased so many extras even though my kit hasn't arrived. I'm still a happy customer and hope the build goes smoothly.

As another update, Stewart Transportation contacted me yesterday and we finalized shipping! Should be December 19th or somewhere around there if the weather holds up here. Looking forward to inventory.

Question: Should I get the aluminum panels off and send them straight to powder coat or should I drill for rivits, fit with clecos, and get farther along before powder coating?

[Highplainsdakota]

I agree, and that is also what Mike Forte has recommended. I'm going with a mild cam and Georgie's touring pipes as well. I have decided to go with the 3.31 / 0.81 combo as I just don't see me using it on the interstate much. And that should help tame the low end torque direction of the build as well.

[Highplainsdakota]

Here is the part # for motion raceworks quick release:

Motion Raceworks: Motion GM/Ford Bolt-On SFI Steering Quick Release Hub 5/6 Bolt Pattern 15-270
15-270-1, $169

[Jeff Kleiner]

Question: Should I get the aluminum panels off and send them straight to powder coat or should I drill for rivits, fit with clecos, and get farther along before powder coating?

Fit and drill first. You may find that you need to do some minor trimming which you wouldn't want to have to do on a finished piece and also doing it first avoids the potential of marring the coating if a drill bit walks or slips. If you use a #30 bit rather than 1/8" you probably won't need to clean the coating from the drilled holes but if you do a twist with a hand reamer makes short work of it.

Jeff

[John Ibele]

To add just a bit of detail if you haven't seen it elsewhere ...

Do any minor trimming / fitting of the panel.
Mark for holes.
Center punch holes if you don't want the bit to wander.
Clamp panel to frame.
Drill hole #1 through panel and frame. Insert cleco.
Drill hole #n (other end) through panel and frame. Insert cleco.
Drill all the holes in between and remove panel.
Clean up holes as needed per Jeff ... if you're lazy like me, you grab a somewhat sharp 1/2" bit because you never got around to getting a hand reamer.

A few spots will have frame welds underneath the panel so the panel doesn't lie flat on the frame. Drill and cleco first and last holes. Hit the panel with a rubber hammer right over the weld. You now have a conformal fit of panel over top of weld. Drill remaining holes and carry on.

[Highplainsdakota]

Thanks John, that's great advice. I think I saw a thread on the rubber mallet trick, but assumed I would understand once that problem arose. You clarified that for me.

Bit of a silly question here, but when we talk about "Minor trimming / fitting", how will I know? Do I look at how the panels fit before I first remove the body after delivery and trim away things that touch the body? Someone mentioned a sharpie's width away from the body for bulb seal pieces (width of actual standard marker body, length of felt tip, what are we talking about here?). Jeff mentioned he rarely has to trim any panels on a MK4 except maybe the end of the trunk floor? I don't want to miss an easy step before I start removing everything. I will be taking multiple pictures as I go

[John Ibele]

In retrospect I didn't think it was vital to do that marking relative to body in the very beginning. My body went on and off multiple times when I got to that point in the build, and on one of those fits I marked to trim any pieces (like trunk sides and back of trunk) as needed for bulb seal. Those parts that contact the body can be trimmed after install.

After you remove the body, the panels are held in by self-tappers for shipping. Usually the panel fit of these is pretty good, but you may want to shift some slightly, or bang a weld with a rubber mallet, or trim a piece if hangs over just a bit. But these are typically pretty small adjustments, and keep in mind that a lot of stuff faces the road, gets painted with bedliner / under coater, or gets covered with sound mat, trunk liner, or carpet. You'll know what bugs you and what doesn't when you see it. (And no one else will see it regardless.)

And when you get the parts back from powder coating, just remember they all fit well when you sent them out. So if anything is way off, it means you just don't have something lined up right. Don't trim anything. Ask me how I know :)

[Highplainsdakota]

Great news, my MK4 arrived yesterday! The delivery went smoothly, even though it was -7 and snowing. Driver wasn't too impressed with the ND roads in these conditions, but he made my delivery risking his own off time for Christmas. Big thanks to Stewart Transportation.

I also sent a big check to Mike Forte to get my engine in the works. Lots going on right now. I took the body off and started documenting the panels and their locations. The body was a little rough from the mold. Ok, it was a lot rough. I'm already a bit worried about how to do the sanding and filling of the seams, but I have time to figure that out. Looking at attachments for my die grinder that will help in the rough sanding.

One issue I noticed during inventory is I'm missing the Certificate of Origin and Nameplate. I'm not sure why these weren't included but they are marked 0 on the sheet, so FFR knew they weren't included?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Great news, my MK4 arrived yesterday! The delivery went smoothly, even though it was -7 and snowing. Driver wasn't too impressed with the ND roads in these conditions, but he made my delivery risking his own off time for Christmas. Big thanks to Stewart Transportation.

I also sent a big check to Mike Forte to get my engine in the works. Lots going on right now. I took the body off and started documenting the panels and their locations. The body was a little rough from the mold. Ok, it was a lot rough. I'm already a bit worried about how to do the sanding and filling of the seams, but I have time to figure that out. Looking at attachments for my die grinder that will help in the rough sanding.

One issue I noticed during inventory is I'm missing the Certificate of Origin and Nameplate. I'm not sure why these weren't included but they are marked 0 on the sheet, so FFR knew they weren't included?

The CO and plate will be sent later, generally with the final POL shipment. RE:the mold parting lines (not seams)...are you doing the bodywork and paint? If no just leave them alone.

Jeff

[Highplainsdakota]

The CO and plate will be sent later, generally with the final POL shipment. RE:the mold parting lines (not seams)...are you doing the bodywork and paint? If no just leave them alone.

Jeff

I was planning to do the bodywork just to get the hood, doors, trunk rollbar holes done. I'm definitely not doing the paint. I don't know who to trust after the really high paint quotes I received earlier from local shops. If someone is willing to do the body work and paint all in one go that would be great. I'm doing a custom roll bar so at least one hole has to be filled in and two more cut where I need them.

Jeff, Do I gather from your previous posts that you do bodywork and painting yourself? I agree with your statements about having a shop that has "done a few" cobras before so I'm not the guinea pig.

[Highplainsdakota]

207864
207863
207862
207861

[Highplainsdakota]

207867
207866
207865

[JMD]

Great news! My delivery driver from Stewart did an excellent job. It was definitely the best way to get the car.

Lovely shop space, I have garage envy. I look forward to seeing how it goes. Which engine did you order from Forte?

[Highplainsdakota]

I’m having him do a SBF 363, mild cam, edelbrock pro Flo 4, TKX with 0.81 high. It’s supposed to be around 440 fwhp. Rear end is a 3.31 with Eaton Detroit truetrac

[Highplainsdakota]

Quick questions:

I see in other build threads black powder coated aluminum panels with what looks like black rivits. Are they spray painting rivits? Sharpie? Mine's going to look like hundreds of raw steel rivits along black powder coated panels. What is the solution here?

I understand there are several aluminum panels that will be covered in sound dampening material, carpet etc on one side and lizard skin or some other material that faces the road on the other. Is it worth sending everything to powdercoat since I don't know exactly which will still be visible?

Thanks

[Highplainsdakota]

I'm continuing to think up questions watching other build threads and I'm trying to avoid mistakes. Let's have a quick jump into the chassis grease discussion. Somewhere there are apparently poly bushings that require special poly safe grease that costs $85 per tube and is on back order until January, and likely needs a dedicated grease gun to avoid mixing/contamination. (all these things are already ordered and in the works). So....Which bushings are poly? It says nothing about greasing these in the manual but many forum builds say grease the bushings when you assemble which seems like good advice. I don't want to use the wrong grease on a bushing that is a pain to remove later. Thanks

[danmas]

Quick questions:

I see in other build threads black powder coated aluminum panels with what looks like black rivits. Are they spray painting rivits? Sharpie? Mine's going to look like hundreds of raw steel rivits along black powder coated panels. What is the solution here?

I understand there are several aluminum panels that will be covered in sound dampening material, carpet etc on one side and lizard skin or some other material that faces the road on the other. Is it worth sending everything to powdercoat since I don't know exactly which will still be visible?

Thanks

Many people powder coat the entire aluminum set of panels. Some do only some and some do none. For me I powder coated the engine compartment and some of the side panels.

Rivets can be ordered that are already black.

Here: http://https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-abs6266lurr2 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-abs6266lurr2)

[JMD]

That's going to be a lot for a car like this! Good gear selection. Hope you enjoy it!


I’m having him do a SBF 363, mild cam, edelbrock pro Flo 4, TKX with 0.81 high. It’s supposed to be around 440 fwhp. Rear end is a 3.31 with Eaton Detroit truetrac

[John Ibele]

I'm continuing to think up questions watching other build threads and I'm trying to avoid mistakes. Let's have a quick jump into the chassis grease discussion. Somewhere there are apparently poly bushings that require special poly safe grease that costs $85 per tube and is on back order until January, and likely needs a dedicated grease gun to avoid mixing/contamination. (all these things are already ordered and in the works). So....Which bushings are poly? It says nothing about greasing these in the manual but many forum builds say grease the bushings when you assemble which seems like good advice. I don't want to use the wrong grease on a bushing that is a pain to remove later. Thanks

Search "chassis grease poly bushings site:thefactoryfiveforum.com" and you'll find some background. You should be able to see in the manual each spot which has poly bushings. What I got out of this and other reading was that a synthetic, silicone-based grease was going to be fully compatible with the poly bushings.

But you'll find that many who know this don't actually go to the trouble of having a separate grease gun filled with the stuff. The thinking here is that the most important thing is to use grease, period, and any incompatibility will have only minor impact. Many who are using the red grease are likely thinking there's it's fully compatible because it's 'synthetic', which doesn't always mean is entirely a silicone-based grease.

I decided I wasn't going to use the super heavy duty, tacky stuff, with the thinking that I wasn't going to be driving in wet conditions much, and I was going to be greasing the chassis every fall, not once every 5 years. I didn't see the need for high impact / load resistance either, since the purpose of the poly is to absorb such impacts and spread out high point loads. So one grease gun, multi-purpose chassis grease on all the zerk fittings for me. I'm not saying that's the right answer, just my own thought process.

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

Here's my decision on the grease conundrum: I still have a large tube of Prothane Super Grease on backorder from Jegs.com, now allegedly shipping on 2/11/25. Problem is, I need to assemble my front lower control arms now and they should be lubed during assembly. I therefore ordered 3-packs of prothane super grease in small tubes to allow me to continue my build. They are available on Amazon.com.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P8SAU2?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

I ordered four 3-packs to get me through assembly of the bushings. I'll go back and grease them fully when the polyurethane bushing safe super grease arrives. There is much debate on whether using standard chassis grease matters at all, but it's a small price to add to the total project.

I took almost all the aluminum panels to get powder coated black. I did basically every panel except for some of the very small pieces as I don't know where they go yet. The lead time was quick, so I can get those down to powder coat if I need to quickly. The guy was totally baffled on the potential cost of this so he quoted me $1000 for all of it, knowing it could be more or less. I'll update here what it turned out to be. Also, I pre-drilled the F-panels but none of the others because I needed to get the F-panels on right away. I made sure I drilled at least one hole in a flange somewhere on every panel to make it easy for the powder coat guy to hang them. May save me some money because I saved him time. I just drilled in the obvious flanges on most of the panels.

Black rivits ordered as well. I should have thought of this a while back, but they will arrive next week. I noticed the "Grip range" was wider for these rivits so maybe they are more forgiving than the ones that came from FFR. Hope they work out. I bought a piece of thin square tube stock steel to practice on with my unused aluminum panels (f-panels I traded for the wide F panels from FFmetals).

Mike Forte called me both right around Christmas about shipping my IRS, brakes, front sway bar, and CV axles. I should get a tracking number early this week. That will be just in time for my progress. He should also be starting on my engine/transmission and he projects 2-3 months for that. Lots going on, but no actual progress until I get some of these parts back. More to come!

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

I received my rear IRS and wilwood brakes with black calipers from Forte. Still waiting on front sway bar and triple reservoir. I received my black rivets and prothane grease samples (which is important because my tube is now back ordered until mid Feb!) Half my aluminum panels have been powder coated black and are finished. The rest will be done in another week or two. Also, my nametag and Certificate or Origin came in the mail. Just missing a 30" 4AN hose and my list is complete.

I began assembling my front lower control arms and ran into the similar problems. My rear bracket was too large for one washer but too tight for two. I ended up buying a thinner washer to add to one side. It's not as wide in diameter as the bushing but I don't think it will matter. I tried bolting it together with just one washer but it was clearly bending the tabs in. I felt more comfortable adding the thinner washer. I'm going to start more assembly tomorrow and I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere.

Fuel system questions:

I have the Pro-M fuel hanger with 3/8" in and out lines, and bought a Wilbro 255 LPH in tank fuel pump that I will assemble tomorrow. I'm going to run a 363 stroker. Should I have a fuel regulator? Does anyone have a strong recommendation on a fuel filter?

[Highplainsdakota]

208892
208893
208894
208895
208896

[Justin]

You will need a fuel pressure regulator. LOADS of options. I have had extremely good luck with Aeromotive products. Not the cheapest but seems to be reliable for me. Since you are running a in-tank pump you can install a 10 micron filter somewhere in line. Most mount it near the fuel tank someplace. You can use the same can and make a charcoal filter for the fuel breather tube as well. Someone on the forum used an amazon fuel filter (Aeromotive knock off) and pulled the screen out and made a charcoal canister out of it. Some use PVC pipes/fittings. 440hp is more than I would trust a stock fuel filter to flow but the 255lph will be fine.

[Mike.Bray]

Fuel system questions:

I have the Pro-M fuel hanger with 3/8" in and out lines, and bought a Wilbro 255 LPH in tank fuel pump that I will assemble tomorrow. I'm going to run a 363 stroker. Should I have a fuel regulator? Does anyone have a strong recommendation on a fuel filter?

I saw you're planning on running a Pro Flo, nice system that you'll be happy with. All EFI systems require consistent fuel pressure, the ECU can only control the injectors by opening them for a fixed amount of time in ms. With known injectors and fuel pressure the ECU can calculate the flow in lbs/hr from the open time it is commanding. If the pressure varies so does the flow rate into the engine which is very bad.

Definitely need a regulator, and it installs in the return side of the system. Do not install it in the supply side.


This is the filter I'm running, not cheap but very nice. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-162-554

TBH, if I had it to do again I would probably use a 10 micron canister filter as it's easier to service. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aei-12317

[Highplainsdakota]

Thanks for the info! I’m going to get that ordered today.

I’m at the shop right now and I just took some pictures of the washers I used for a little extra spacer on the rear mount of the front lower control arm. I assume the four washers that were included in the kit were just incase I needed all four here and not for the upper control arm.

208908208909208910

[Highplainsdakota]

Just finished my upper and lower control arms. I decided to take an angle grinder to the rear turnbuckle bolts and a hacksaw to the aluminum turnbuckle to give me another 3/8” of adjustment room. Then I aligned them using the zerk to zerk measurements the I believe Jeff K lays out, 9.75” front and 8.5” rear. Apologies if that is someone else’s idea. Also completed my first set of riveted panels using the deeper F panels from FFMetal.com. Things are coming together!

Now I’m looking to see if the 300 or 400# springs go in front or back? I think the heavier springs go up front because of the engine weight if I’m not wrong. I’ll have to dig. I ordered the kit with touring shocks.

[Highplainsdakota]

208940208941208942

[Jeff Kleiner]

Just finished my upper and lower control arms. I decided to take an angle grinder to the rear turnbuckle bolts and a hacksaw to the aluminum turnbuckle to give me another 3/8” of adjustment room. Then I aligned them using the zerk to zerk measurements the I believe Jeff K lays out, 9.75” front and 8.5” rear. Apologies if that is someone else’s idea. Also completed my first set of riveted panels using the deeper F panels from FFMetal.com. Things are coming together!

Now I’m looking to see if the 300 or 400# springs go in front or back? I think the heavier springs go up front because of the engine weight if I’m not wrong. I’ll have to dig. I ordered the kit with touring shocks.

Heavier springs to the front.

[Highplainsdakota]

What is the recommended way to run the fuel pressure regulator on the Pro flo 4 for my SBF build? I understand the regulator goes on the return side. Many of the regulators have multiple high pressure ports and one return port on the bottom. These must be used for "dead end" fuel systems where the sending fuel line goes through the regulator to the fuel rails and the return fuel going back to the tank from the bottom of the regulator.

For the "return style" which is what everyone seems to recommend, I would plumb the sending fuel line to the fuel rails, then out the fuel rails to the regulator, then bottom of the regulator return to the fuel tank. I would then simply plug the other holes in the regulator. Does this sound correct?

Also, I assume I have two fuel rails on the pro flo 4. Are these hooked up in series or parallel with Y attachments?

Trying to order all these expensive fittings in the least amount of orders as possible. Appreciate it!




Are the fuel rails hooked up in series or parallel?

[Mike.Bray]

The most accurate way is to run the fuel rails in series, in one, loop to the second, and out to the regulator. This guarantees constant pressure on the injectors.

You will see pressure on the inlet of the regulator, usually around 43 PSI, and atmospheric on the outlet to the tank.

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

Wow drilling those spindles out is a little terrifying. I ended up buying a 5/8" reamer and it's pretty easy with that. I can feel the hole direction really well. Cutting the ears off was more challenging but lots of machine lube and I got the job done.

I bolted all the hats to the wilwood rotors. It didn't help that this step was right after a 250 ft/lbs torque on the front wheel hubs. I strongly recommend you take a random bolt, grip it in the vice, get the appropriate socket for that bolt and test your inch pound torque wrench to see how the "click" feels. I apparently missed it and twisted the first one right off. I had the red locktite on and everything but was able to get it drilled out. No problem, but I had to order another set of 12 bolts which was $75. If anyone needs a few wilwood rotor bolts and washers I have extra.

Just waiting on the 0.032 SS wire to safety wire the bolts together. I'm sure this step is overkill but it looked kinda fun so I'm doing it. Maybe one day my son will take off the rotors and say what the heck is this? He'll look it up and understand the little extras I tried to add to the cobra. My wife bought me two shop stools so I'm not kneeling all over on the concrete. More things to assemble but that's going to help a lot.

I finally received my correct Walbro fuel pump. I have not received the rubber sleeve yet so I have to wait for the install in the Pro-M hanger. The positive and negative wires riveted to the Pro-M hanger have female quick connects, but only one fits the tabs on the fuel pump. The fuel pump came with a pigtail that locks in place, but I would need to splice the wires. I think that's the rout I'll go. The instructions on the Pro-M hanger are a bit sparse, so I think I just press fit the fuel filter pad on the bottom of the pump but it seems like there should be a more secure connection.

I received my Steel 3/8" fuel line in the mail as well as a large straightener. That thing is beefy. Probably a tool I'll try unload on the forum to recoup some cost and save another poor soul from purchasing new for over $200 just to be used twice. Next step is reaming out the holes in the rear diff pumpkin to 5/8" and installing it with all the rear control arms, shocks, spindles, and brakes. I'm trying to get some parallel processes going on so I can keep working when I run into a snag in one direction.

Finally, I talked to Mike Forte about a hydroboost system for my brakes. He wants me to send him my pedal box and top hanger to modify so that's being packaged up to send. That should come up quick so I hope the turn around is reasonable. Things are moving and that's always a good thing.

[Highplainsdakota]

209245
209246
209247

[TTimmy]

I received my Steel 3/8" fuel line in the mail as well as a large straightener. That thing is beefy. Probably a tool I'll try unload on the forum to recoup some cost and save another poor soul from purchasing new for over $200 just to be used twice.



The “per use” cost of some of these tools is difficult to justify. Solution: I strongly recommend taking on another build so that you can cut that per use cost in half.

[Highplainsdakota]

The “per use” cost of some of these tools is difficult to justify. Solution: I strongly recommend taking on another build so that you can cut that per use cost in half.

I don’t want to give my wife any more reasons to murder me, thanks. ��

I was impressed with the 5/8” reamer I bought for the rear IRS and Spindle work. I’m thinking about putting some of these one use tools together as a roadster package and selling them to the next new builder. I recoup some of my cost and they get once used expensive tools for cheap. Maybe a gentlemen’s agreement to sell them as a package for 1/2 cost, as long as they sell it for 1/2 cost as a package to the next guy.

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

I finished the front brakes, sans plumbing, and the installed the rear IRS. It went pretty smooth but I have a gap between my bushing and the frame on the front two arms of the pumpkin. The bolts are torqued and the inner metal sleeve is snug, it’s just the bushings. Does this look right?

209358209359

[Highplainsdakota]

Overall progress was made yesterday even though we struggled with the order of the steps. I’m wishing the instructions included better notes about “if installing a sway bar attach this bracket here” type of thing.

The sway bar instructions front and back are total crap. I’m not sure what the bolts are for or in what order they are installed. Washers? No washers? Who knows? I also installed my rear control arms and toe arms before I figured out the rear sway bar bracket goes over those bolts. They were a little hard to put in so I’m going to struggle there a bit. The spacers were too big so I’ve been sanding them by hand. I don’t have my belt grinder at my shop yet but that just moved up to priority one.

Some of the hardware instructions for the toe arms and lower control arm in the rear were murky so I hope I chose the right nuts. The bolts are correct. I can see why the forum knowledge is critical for double checking things. I’ll post pics below.

[Highplainsdakota]

209362209363209364209365

[Highplainsdakota]

209366209367209368209369

[Mike.Bray]

I don’t want to give my wife any more reasons to murder me, thanks. ��

I I have a spreadsheet that details everything I've purchased for my build, mostly for record keeping but also tracks costs. I have a second spreadsheet that's trimmed down and has the "corrected" costs, I show this one to my wife:)

[Highplainsdakota]

Guys,

If someone out there has the knowledge, am I good proceeding with the bushing gap on the front connection points of the rear IRS? I posted some pictures about 5 posts ago. The inner metal sleeve is contacting the metal on both sides and I’m appropriately torqued. There’s just some space between the bushing and the frame. Shouldn’t be an issue in my mind, but it is strange.

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

I installed the front and rear sway bars last night, but they are not hooked up yet. Learned some lessons along the way that I will write down as tips for the next guy below. I was told the rear sway bar was hard or impossible to install after the car is complete and now I know why. I still missed the boat and assembled and torqued the rear toe arm and lower control arm before I figured out where the bracket went. Had to remove those and reinstall which was frustrating but not too bad. I figured out the 0.25" longer 5/8 bolt needed for the toe arm. The problem was I used the mechanical lock nut, and having removed it I wasn't sure it could be re-used. I decided to use the other two mechanical lock nuts in the kit. Not sure where those are supposed to go yet. I found 5/8" x 11 mechanical lock nuts at NAPA for those who need to know! They are a little longer but should work.

Front brakes were installed last week and it's interesting that the brake pads just kind of float in the calipers. It seems like they would rub on the rotor randomly. Is that the way they are supposed to be? Maybe after some use they settle in and move with the calipers. I purchased some of those solder / heat shrink butt connectors and I believe they are fuel rated so I'll use them on the in tank fuel pump connections. I installed the pump with the sleeve in the Pro-M hanger and that went well. I might shave off some of the tube that returns the fuel on the pro M hanger so I don't have to cut so big of an opening in the gas tank. That brings up another issue. I'm not coming up with ideas on how to keep metal shavings out of the tank when I grind the opening for the pro M hanger. I think I'll just wash it out with water and air dry it. I should be able to see any significant residual water before I install the tank.

Tips for the next guy:
1: The black metal brackets Must go on the rear of the frame for the rear sway bar before installation of the rear toe arm and lower control arm. Use the 2.5" 5/8 x 11 bolt that comes with the sway bar and discard the 2.25" bolt in the kit.
2: Once the bracket (and therefore the toe arm and lower control arms are installed), move on to the bushing brackets and sway bar itself before getting into the spindles and upper control arms (Rear sway bar). I had to jack up my rear spindles to get them clear of the sway bar when installing it.
3: Lube the sway bar bushings with prothane grease now, at installation. the fit is tight and there's no grease zerk.
4: The hex head bolts go front to back through the brass colored bracket on the front sway bar. I placed them up from the bottom through the bracket on the rear sway bar. This looks better and prevents longer bolts hanging down. I'm not sure it would matter on the rear and may improve access to the toe arm bolt the other way but this is how I did it. Use the yellow washers next to the hex bolt head and the silver washers on the back before the lock nut. If you don't, the larger silver washers will impinge and probably mess up the torque specs.
5: I happen to have a set of hex sockets. They are necessary to torque these bolts down appropriately. There is no room for a socket on the rear sway bar nuts (The way I did it). You might buy these in advance.
6: You must torque the rear toe arm bolt to 100 ft/lbs before installation of the rear bushing bracket install. There is no room for a socket once the sway bar is installed because of the bolts (Again, the way I did it.)

Pictures to follow! Progress is being made.

[John Ibele]

I see you never got confirmation to the question in your post 72 and 77. I have the older IRS version, but based on what I can see here's what I think. If that silver in the gap is actually the inner sleeve showing, that suggests to me that although the fastener is tightened, that sleeve can still slide back and forth inside the bushing, and the two parts can move relative to each other along the fastener axis. Can you move that arm toward and away from the pumpkin? That doesn't seem right, and might require cutting the inner sleeve to eliminate the gap. I'm speculating; you should be sure of everything before you cut anything.

With stuff like this I'd shoot tech@factoryfive.com (Dan Golub) a note, or put a quick post with the question in the main forum. That'll put you on solid ground. Sorry I can't be more definitive on this one.

Good progress! Hope it's keeping you busy in the middle of a ND wimpy winter :)


Edit:

Hey, how about that!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?46273-Gap-between-IRS-center-section-and-frame-where-bolted

Go down to Mike Everson's input. You can take his word to the bank. Happy building!

[Highplainsdakota]

Thank you!!

That post you attached is exactly what I experienced. Since the rear of the IRS is snug to the frame, the only thing that would close the gap is a spacer over the inner sleeve, which I imagine would do nothing, good or bad.

I really appreciate the reply as I don’t have enough automotive knowledge to know how important/potentially disastrous some of these discrepancies are. Learning about other people’s builds and discussing these issues is nearly as fun as the build itself at times!

Here are some of the pictures of the sway bar mounts that I mentioned in a previous post:

Front sway bar mounts:
209849209850209851

[Highplainsdakota]

Rear swaybar mounts:

209853209854209855

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

I finished the assembly of my pro M fuel hanger with the sleeve around the Walbro pump so it's nice and quiet. That pushed the return fuel line out a bit and made the install somewhat tighter. I cut the recommended areas out of the gas tank and decided on a 45 degree cut on the end of the return so it would fit better. I'm waiting on my breeze vent for the fuel tank to finish that part of the install.

The power steering unit has been installed, and the rear brakes are finished. I haven't ran any lines yet. Battery box is up next along with the next few panels of the drivers foot box and firewall. Fuel filter placement with some of the soft lines can also be completed.

I haven't looked into adjusting the alignment yet so I'm leaving that for another day. Here are some pictures.

210114210113210112210115

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

Front driver panel is riveted in place. Flexible brake lines are on the calipers. Those 45 degree elbows don't thread in very far but they seem to be in enough. My vent for the tank is in. I found out I am missing some brake parts. All four brackets that connect the hard lines to the flexible lines and their clips, the brass T fittings and other fittings for the brake line flares. Maybe it's because I ordered the wilwood brakes from Mike Forte, but I still at least need the brackets to rivit on. I'm going to look again tonight. I bought an AGM group 51R battery. Not sure if the positive or negative terminal left or right matter but the "R" was all I could find. The front swaybar is still giving me headaches. I believe I have it centered, but the rod ends don't have enough angle to fit on the bolt thought the bottom shock mount. Maybe I need to shorten the spacer from the swaybar hole to the bottom rod end. I'm using the third hole on the front sway bar as it seemed to line up the most directly under the bolt. I also bought some alignment tools. Not sure I'll get more than one use out of these but I'm kinda excited to see how this works. Some of this project is just to gain some knowledge.

Progress has been slow because my brake parts are missing, Forte still has my pedal box for hydroboost upgrade, many of my panels are still at powdercoat, and the swaybar hook ups keep giving me issues. I'm still finding smaller things to do though. My Prothane supergrease just came in! I'll attach some pics in a bit. Thanks again for everyone's help as always!

[Highplainsdakota]

210210210211210212

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

I made a decision on the EStopp location. I cut a 1x1" tube to run as another cross brace in the high area of the trunk, giving me extra metal to rivnut the mechanism to. I'm painting it black and I'll weld it in place. I'll have to make a large S bend for the driver's side e-brake cable, but the passenger's side will be a short direct run. Looking up from under the car the cables will be visible and serviceable. Just need to get some of these decisions made.

Anyone know what the plate with three holes in it is for near the rear of the rear tires on the chassis? Nice place to put a fuel filter but I don't want to block a future part. Can't think of anything that goes there. pic below.

I put the wheels on to check impingement and everything looked fine. Battery front mount from breeze installed. Steering also installed. I took advice from other builds and cut 3/4" off the lower steering shaft. Drilled detents in every spot there is a large set screw. Blue locktite around. I mounted the flange bearing on the driver's side footbox with the set screws in the box. Added two washers to the pillow bearing with set screws towards the back. Seems to work out well. Without the 3/4" cut the U-joint was impinging on the flange bearing on the foot box wall even when it was placed on the footbox side.

210315210316210317210318

[Highplainsdakota]

210319210320210321

Also added a crappy used leather loveseat to my shop today. The team was getting a little annoyed not having a place to sit. We decided breaks are a mandatory OSHA mandate in the shop.

[F500guy]

Looking good! One note on the upper steering shaft bearing, you will need to get to those 2 set screws with the dash on, I think it is easier to reach them when they are on the firewall side.

[Highplainsdakota]

Looking good! One note on the upper steering shaft bearing, you will need to get to those 2 set screws with the dash on, I think it is easier to reach them when they are on the firewall side.

Interesting. I took a look at this today and I can see what you're talking about. I can't think of a reason not to do this, other than having to remove it after removing the dash but not the body. That may be difficult, but if I'm removing the steering something's messed up and will be difficult anyway. I think I'll change it. Thanks for the advice!

Also, I drilled my extended firewall today and used Cleco's to hold it in place. Some say there's no real benefit riveting this in place right now and can be done later. I'm just trying to knock off tasks. I'll wait for a while and rivet it on when I get impatient. Oh well. I'm going to start tackling the pedal box next even though I don't have the bracket back from Forte yet. I'll see how far I get.

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

I fabricated a vapor canister from PVC, scotch brite pads, and activated charcoal. I decided to use the mount for the original fuel filter mount across one of the cross bars. I was able to weld in the extra cross bar under the trunk top level for a secure mounting place for my estopp. I used stainless rivnuts and silicone with some blue locktite. I haven’t chosen the exact orientation of the bracket so I can see where the near cable wants to go. I also installed the new fuel filter along the passenger side.

No I just need to learn how to terminate that braided fuel hose from breeze with AN fittings. Then I can install the tank and start to run fuel and brake hard lines.

Speaking of that. Still waiting on my pedal box to return so I’m stuck there. Still waiting on e brake cables and an extra kit from FFR with the parts I need to install the brake lines. Since I didn’t buy the wilwood brakes from them they didn’t include this necessary parts kit that I would need either way. Those ordering it’s should be aware of that. Once I get them I can move ahead.

I have picked out the correct panels for the drivers and passengers side foot box but I didn’t have time to drill and install them yet. That’s next up before I can do the hard lines.

I’m working hard on speaker placement. I’ve read a lot on this forum about the futility of this but I don’t care. I need music and there are ways to improve it. I also have a 427 hardtop coming so that will help when it is on. My current plan is to install either competition level tweeters or high end (and higher frequency end) 3” mods in the dash pointing directly at the driver and passenger. This, appropriately powered should get the bulk of the sound to the listener. I think I’m going to cut off some of the under door x brace and weld a round-a-bout support so I can fit a 4 or 5 1/4” mid in the kick panel. Finally I may install some 6x9” or other speakers either directly behind the seats or back inside the cubby between the seats. We will see.

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

Last night I installed the parking brake cables. They were the cut to length variety from wilwood and went very well. It took some time to figure out how to install the cable on the lever arm of the brake itself but in the end was simple. I was looking for a bracket that fit the arm but the cable drum end fits right in the lever arm itself. Pictures below. I bent and installed my first brake line connecting the rear calipers. I'm not very good with the bendy tool and ended up with a bit of manual manipulation of the line to get it to fit but it looks fine. No one's going to see it anyway as long as it doesn't leak!

I'm looking for recommendations on setting the initial tension of the estopp system. I know it's pretty powerful and I don't want to ruin something when I first initiate it. I will probably just snug up the cable bracket so the cables aren't floping around. Should be plenty tight. I brought my dash home to start placing paper circles for gauge placement. I've settled on installing speakers in the dash, now I'm wondering if I can get away with just tweeters and some mids near the floor, or if I need to put 6" or 6x9" speakers in the rear cubby to round out the sound.

Passenger side aluminum panels are next.

[Highplainsdakota]

210660210661210662

[Highplainsdakota]

210663210664210665

[Highplainsdakota]

Ok guys, I need some quick help.

I found out yesterday my 3/8” tube bender is for 3/8” outer diameter tube, not 6AN steel tube that is just over 1/2” OD. I can’t find a bender on line and the forums are talking about filling the line with salt and hand bending it. Really? I only need about 4 bends total for both lines but if I need another tool oh well. Recommendations appreciated!

[Mike.Bray]

Ok guys, I need some quick help.

I found out yesterday my 3/8” tube bender is for 3/8” outer diameter tube, not 6AN steel tube that is just over 1/2” OD. I can’t find a bender on line and the forums are talking about filling the line with salt and hand bending it. Really? I only need about 4 bends total for both lines but if I need another tool oh well. Recommendations appreciated!

Tube is measured on the OD, pipe on the ID. If your tube measures 1/2" OD it is -8 AN.

It is true, you can fill a tube with fine sand and seal the ends to bend it. The filling will keep it from collapsing or kinking. I've done it many times.

[Highplainsdakota]

Yes, sorry I meant 8 AN. Maybe I’ll give the salt method a try and bend it around a socket.

[Highplainsdakota]

Well, I ended up buying a tubing bender from harbor freight, and while I was there, a 36” metal break to fabricate some aluminum panels. The brake ran me $300 but it should pay for itself after my drop trunk, speaker boxes, and a few other gadgetry items I plan to build. I have half of the passenger foot box installed, so I’m going to try my hand with the koolmat and contact cement next. Things are moving along.

[Highplainsdakota]

Updates:

I finished the tensioning on the E-Stopp, jumpered the control box and fired it up. It worked great. Love the location and seems to have the right amount of tension. I did add the springs over the parking cables under the lever arm for some extra "return pressure". Probably not needed but it seemed like a good idea. I started installing a lot more panels. I really want to fabricate some gadgetry into this car but it's hard visualizing early in the build. Problem is, now is when I need to place the servos and cutouts in the aluminum. I guess I can always go back and fabricate.

Still waiting on the pedal box to return from Forte for the brake booster install. It has stopped my progress as that's an early step in the build. Hopefully next week. I glued a few koolmats in place with contact cement, but I'd like to get the pedal box in before I continue much more. Folling Matt's lead from the MN roadster, I bough a steering wheel from VSW steering wheels. I went with a thicker smaller wood steering wheel in chrome with the old cobra center emblem. That helped me decide the dash and pick the gauges. I decided on the antique beige color gauges from speedhut. A 4" speedo with brights and turn signal LEDs, 4" tach, and 3 3/8" quad gauge for the rest of the info. Simple and clean as I will have a lot more stuff mounted in my dash.

That brings me to the audio update:

It seems many on this forum, diyaudiomobile.com, and other places recommend against installing a stereo in the roadster but I'm going for it anyway. I will report my satisfaction with it as I cannot imagine driving without music. I fully understand the limitations but here I go anyway. So far, I have decided to mount a pair of 1" tweeters and 2.5" mids in the dash. They will be left of the steering wheel and right of my custom glove box. I went with Audiofrog GB10 tweeters, and Audiofrog GB25 mids. That covers most of my range and they will be pointed on axis for a better chance to hear the music. They are rated 100 W RMS and will be powered with an Audiocontrol amp with digital signal processing at 125 W RMS per channel.

I'm going to mount a Morel 8" 804 Primo subwoofer in the cubby between the seats. It will be in the rear wall of the cubby in a sealed box, although I may port it with the ports facing forward into the cubby for more SPL. I hope this rounds out the midbass as a sort of three-way system. I'm collecting opinions on whether I also need two 6" midbass drivers in the cubby in addition to the sub. My plan is just the sub for now, bridging the last two channels of the audiocontrol amp to 400W RMS.

I powdercoated way too many aluminum panels that will never be seen. Oh well. I'm still glad I did so it looks put together. I'm still designing my drop trunk that I will make myself. I'm still in the process of designing the glove box and dash layout as well. I have ordered a Redline Escort 360 custom install radar detector. I plan to have a toggle switch turn in on and operate a servo that opens a gate in my dash exposing the detector screen. With a flip of the switch it hides the detector and shuts it down. I decided to opt out of the laser shifters as I will probably not be driving this on the highway in North Dakota too much.

Finally, the fuel lines. OMG the fuel lines. So I bought steel fuel lines that are 1/2" outer diameter because I thought I needed a 3/8" ID for my engine. Apparently nothing else I bought was -8 AN. The Pro-M hanger is -6 AN, my fuel filter, fuel regulator, and all my connections are -6 AN. No biggie, I'll just have a larger hard line. Then it came to bending it. After straightening it all which went well, my harbor freight bender immediately kinked the line. I filled the line with salt. Still kinked it. Then I decided to anneal the steel. So, filled with salt, MAP torch until red hot, then as it cooled I started to bend it. OOPS. Melted my harbor freight bender. It didn't completely ruin it but I didn't realize part if it was plastic. the rest was aluminum. Anyway, I finally had a salt filled steel fuel line, annealed and cooled, lubed, and finally bent without kinking it. Problem is, the salt is now rock solid in the tube. I've been soaking it but can't get it all out because I can't run water through the tube.

I think I'm going to give up. I'm leaning towards flexible -6 AN PTFE fuel line for the whole system. Less connections and -6 AN should provide for over 500 hp. My SBF 363 won't do more than 415 likely. It's been a frustrating go with the fuel lines but most here on the forum seen to say the flexible lines all the way are no problem at all.

Pictures to follow.

[Highplainsdakota]

211058211059211060

[Highplainsdakota]

On the dash picture with the wood steering wheel, the left 3" and 1" circles are the speakers, the three to the right are the gauges. Two 4" on top and one 3 3/8" below in a triangle. The 3 3/8" will be the 4 part gauge and is a little hard to see behind the steering wheel but I'm good with it.

[Highplainsdakota]

211061

Here is a picture of the dash with right and left speaker locations and gauges.

[Highplainsdakota]

211062211063211064

Here are the speedhut gauges I’m planning. I chose a needle with a black center button.

[Highplainsdakota]

Just for fun…. I was brainstorming how to keep my buddies involved with the project as we went along and I came up with a small incentive. When I ordered the MK4, I also purchased the entire year of playboys from 1965 to stay period correct. Since my kit was delivered in late December, I have the “current month issue” out in the shop for some light reading on breaks. It seems to be as effective as pizza and beer anyway.211065

[Highplainsdakota]

Update;

I've been doing a lot of sitting in my shop and staring at my roadster. I've been bogged down by difficulties with small things like kool mat install, gap filling the foot boxes, waiting for my pedal box, deciding on speakers and speaker placement, dash height, etc. It seems every decision at this point demands another decision commitment that I'm either not ready to make or haven't figured out yet.

In the meantime, I've been buying gear. Box of dynomat extreme for further insulation of the panels, which apparently goes under the koolmat. After reading some other build threads, I think I'm going to use the JB weld option in the gaps around the foot boxes. Since we silicon the panesl together, I was just adding some extra silicone in the gaps. It's getting to the point that I have gobs of silicone in some larger gaps that may see some heat. I need to remove that and use metal tape and JB weld to properly seal these areas. Then I will dynomat, followed by contact cement and koolmat.

As a side note, I definitely powdercoated too many of the panels. Since I chose black, I decided to look for a reflective material to decrease radiant heat to the foot boxes. It seems I'm covering both sides of most panels with some sort of material, sound deadening, carpet, etc.

I have decided on a stereo configuration. Morel virtus carbon nano 4" integra speakers in the dash, and 6" speakers in the rear. Not sure if I'm going to place these just below the seatbelt holes or behind the seats themselves. I'm also adding a JL audio 8" sub where the cubby goes. Because of this, I may abandon the rear cubby for the subwoofer. It's a town car, not a grocery getter anyway. I'm using a JL audio 1000.5 5 channel amp to run it. I'll keep everyone updated on how that all goes.

I still have to design and form my drop trunk. I would like some extra room here because I'm likely giving up the cubby and much of the trunk space. My Gas'N pipes and headers look like they're going to ship this week! Another fun part to take possession of. I haven't fully decided on seat vinyl, but I ordered Wenge wood laminate for my dash. It turns out Constantine is closing their physical shop and may be going out of business.

I ran my wiring harness and temporarily zip tied in in place for now so I can see where things go. Just received the rest of my flexible fuel lines because I gave up on the hardlines for this build. That should reduce fuel leaks. I also bought some DEI hose shields for heat resistance for the fuel lines.

Questions for the group:

I'm working on dash placement. I've searched around the forum and I'm trying to find a picture of the dash in its correct position with the edges bent and folded behind the hinges. I'm just not sure what's going on here. I would like to keep the dash as low as possible and the 3/4" curved frame is exposed about 1/4" on each edge. I understand it does not fit the frame well. My steering column is at the top of the oval hole, although I did put two washers under the pillow bushing to raise the steering wheel a smidge.

[danmas]

Update;

I've been doing a lot of sitting in my shop and staring at my roadster. I've been bogged down by difficulties with small things like kool mat install, gap filling the foot boxes, waiting for my pedal box, deciding on speakers and speaker placement, dash height, etc. It seems every decision at this point demands another decision commitment that I'm either not ready to make or haven't figured out yet.



I definitely feel you here. The decision tree gets really steep really quick, I sort of shook my self really hard and just decided to push on one at a time otherwise I will never get it done. The car won’t be perfect and honestly I’m not really sure what perfect means. It will be good enough and it will be the culmination of many hours of fun and colorful language, Most importantly it will be mine and I will have a lot of fun driving it.

[Highplainsdakota]

I appreciate the kind words. I haven’t had too many fails. There is no right answer for the design decisions but it would be easier if they weren’t so dependent on each other. For example, I’m thinking of scraping the rear cubby for speaker placement, knowing that may not work/sound horrible anyway. That raises the stakes a bit because I’m giving up a neat feature. I’m trying to remember this is all part of the fun.

[cv2065]

Every frame fits the dash a little different, so outside of the 3/16” that Jeff Kleiner recommends on the ends, I don’t think you’ll get a one size fits all answer. Also, I’m a big fan of a stereo and speakers, but after my last build, the 4” speakers up front that I had in the door sucked. I also had a 10” sub in the back that you couldn’t hear and also sucked. The 6” rear wall speakers were great. This time around I’m using a BT amplifier to avoid a head unit and will up the size of the front speakers to 5-1/4” and put them in the tunnel so they face out. I figured out the issue with the sub when talking to an installer. He said unless you have the sub pointing to the rear of the car instead of facing up like many do for acoustics, especially the pancake or underseat subs, you are wasting your time unless you are pushing some serious power. I invested a little more money on the rear speakers.

[Blitzboy54]

Think of building this car like restoring an old house. Mine is a little over a 100 years old and there isn't a plum surface to be found. If I get stubborn on say cutting trim angles It will look terrible. Better to blend. It is far more important for everything to look right than be right. At least when it comes to fit and finish. The OCD guys struggle the most here from what I have seen. Also helpful to take a step back and look ahead to what gets covered and what doesn't. Nothing on the roadster embodies this more than the dash.

Your taking the right approach really sitting through it. Writing it down helps me. If you prepare yourself to go backwards on occasion this also helps. My operating philosophy is "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good"

Your build looks great.

[Mike.Bray]

Think of building this car like restoring an old house. Mine is a little over a 100 years old and there isn't a plum surface to be found. If I get stubborn on say cutting trim angles It will look terrible. Better to blend. It is far more important for everything to look right than be right. At least when it comes to fit and finish. The OCD guys struggle the most here from what I have seen. Also helpful to take a step back and look ahead to what gets covered and what doesn't. Nothing on the roadster embodies this more than the dash.

Agree 100%! Make it look right.

[cv2065]

"don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good"

Quote of the day when it comes to these cars!

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

My side pipes were delivered and they look great! I went with Gas’n touring pipes to mellow the sound a bit. I also put in some work last night drilling the holes for the speakers and center subwoofer. I think I will permanently secure off the subwoofer cubby with a grate. I lose storage space but it will look nice and be purposeful.

The previous comments about looking good and not sweating the finer measurement errors came into play big time last night. I was able to get a lot more done by accepting smaller discrepancies that I can blend or hide later. Thanks again for all that advice. I’m excited to get the sound system running so I can report if any of this was worth it. I have put many hours of research into this, so I hope I can speed it up for the next guy.

211763
211762
211765

[Highplainsdakota]

Hey guys,

I’m looking for 12V electronically controlled valves for 3” foot box vents. I’m doing the high temp hose and bilge pump modification but I’m having a hard time locating the inline butterfly valves. Does anyone know of one they have used or where to find it?

[Highplainsdakota]

I finished the subwoofer enclosure that goes behind the cubby. Can someone tell me if this will fit under the body? I’m not sure what the clearance over the rear 3/4” tube looks like with the final install.211923211924

[mrglaeser]

Hey guys,

I’m looking for 12V electronically controlled valves for 3” foot box vents. I’m doing the high temp hose and bilge pump modification but I’m having a hard time locating the inline butterfly valves. Does anyone know of one they have used or where to find it?

Here is what I'll be using.
https://www.go2marine.com/Dickinson-Marine-Stainless-Steel-Manual-Flue-Damper-3

I'm just going to connect a cable pull to it. You could maybe use a linear actuator or servo motor to open and close them but you would maybe also need to figure out a controller. I would probably go the arduino route and there are many articles on controlling actuators/servos with arduino but it will be a whole side project you might put 100 hours in.

I did have to cut some silicone to fill in the airgap when in the closed position and create an angled piece to attach the cable too.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Home/9999-Factory-Five-Roadster/i-35L6vWJ/0/NKJzhGsdv5sCKpQsCP4F66Mbb6gWkKvWqPt89bQSk/XL/20241207_105905-XL.jpg (https://mattglaeser.smugmug.com/Home/9999-Factory-Five-Roadster/i-35L6vWJ/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Home/9999-Factory-Five-Roadster/i-btCwGJc/0/NCgSkCHDzHHhwc5FGkMhhB3tXm7LF5XpgJthhCbfL/L/20250215_151142-L.jpg (https://mattglaeser.smugmug.com/Home/9999-Factory-Five-Roadster/i-btCwGJc/A)

[mrglaeser]

Ok - after typing my last post I did some creative googling and I found these possible solutions but they are both 24v not 12v

https://www.amazon.com/PATIKIL-Stainless-Motorized-Adjustable-Backdraft/dp/B0DLKK8G1K/ref=asc_df_B0DLKK8G1K?mcid=180e24fa98ee35d98c5deb3 728ccc19e&hvocijid=9531656385063738466-B0DLKK8G1K-&hvexpln=73&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=721245378154&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9531656385063738466&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9019698&hvtargid=pla-2281435177418&th=1

Not sure how that one is controlled.

This one is also 24v but it looks like it requires constant power to stay open then a spring returns it to close.
https://www.ktool.net/acme-miami-95003-3-2-wire-spring-return-damper-24-volt-ac-actuator-n-c-power-open/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw16O_BhDNARIsAC3i2GAxyuV3dWEiU3l-edvjoFbN43-Jrvg8r1yVa-80Gdkc6cgv2GLoE4waAjpnEALw_wcB

I don't think anyone has done motorize Flue / Dampener before.

[Nigel Allen]

Might sound like a dopey question; do you need the valve at all? if you are using a bilge blower to move the air when you want it, then shutting off the blower should stop the flow of air. If the air flows with the blower off, then the inlet must be pointed toward a positive air flow. If that is the case, point the air inlet away from air flow.

Hope that makes sense

Nige

[Highplainsdakota]

Might sound like a dopey question; do you need the valve at all? if you are using a bilge blower to move the air when you want it, then shutting off the blower should stop the flow of air. If the air flows with the blower off, then the inlet must be pointed toward a positive air flow. If that is the case, point the air inlet away from air flow.

Hope that makes sense

Nige

Thanks for the reply. I'm going to use the brake vents in the front of the roadster so these will have ram air essentially. If you gently blow into the bilge blowers they spin freely so they will do nothing to stop air. I'm also looking into some sort of removable filter to prevent clouds of gnats or bees to ram into my footbox!

[Highplainsdakota]

Thanks for the reply! Those electric motors are AC, so I would need a DC/AC converter. Not a big deal but I'm soaking up some power there, especially if they are powered open all the time. I might add some linear actuators elsewhere in the car so that may be the way to go.

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

I ended up going with a simple mechanical valve that M Glasser used. I will look into a way to run a servo or linear actuator to open and close the gate. I have been messing with my pedal box and running into the usual issues. Mike Forte modified the box for his hydroboost set op. Upon initial install, the pedal box install impinged on my steering shaft bearing in the firewall. This is because I went with the recommendation to move it to the inside of the drivers foot box. Nothing a little die grinder couldn't fix, but those changing the steering bearing location should be aware of this.

The length of the hydroboost and master cylinder is substantial. When I fit the Wilwood brake balancer adjustment device it really encroached on my driver's front wheel well. I'll snap some pictures later. It is definitely over top of the tire, but without the engine in place I'm not sure how much vertical travel my wheel has. I've read about the "dog bowl" mod to cover the protrusion which is fine, but I'm actually worried about impingement here. I suppose I could fabricate a bracket and located the brake balancer anywhere as long as it gravity feeds from the reservoir.

As far as the pedals go, I couldn't hook up the brake pedal to the booster arm without compressing the booster with the pedal right up against the 3/4" frame cross bar. I removed it and cut about 1/2" off the booster arm bolt where it threads into the pedal fork. I will reassemble tomorrow and check the pedal height. I've read I need about 4-5" travel of the brake pedal. In order to preserve foot box space I will likely measure 5" from bottoming out on the front driver's foot box wall and consider that my brake height. I will set my other pedals accordingly.

I bought the gas pedal from breeze and love it. I moved the pedal a notch to the left for foot clearance. I'm waiting to drill detents for the set screws until I manage the other pedals. Mike forte will be sending me the master cylinder for the hydraulic clutch soon so I can patch that up.

I noticed a lot of play in the wilwood pedals side to side. There is a very thin shim washer with a 1/2" ID on either side of the pedal, but still lots of play. I may search for more shims to tighten that up. The pedal box is so tight I think any play will just make operating the foot controls harder.

Finally, there is an angle in the aluminum panel on the right vertical side of the driver's foot box that hits me on my lateral lower leg when I sit in the car. I was thinking of removing that metal and making a patch that steels some space from the engine bay. There is a 3/4" frame tube several inches away from the driver's side aluminum in the engine bay so I think I should have some clearance. My engine will be a SBF 363 based on a BOSS block. Can anyone send me a pick of the clearance to the headers on the driver's side near the transmission tunnel?

I'm enjoying some of the other build threads and I'm getting faster searching for answers to my questions based on where they are in their build. What a great hobby this is. Cheers for now.

[Lidodrip]

I also used a hydroboost setup from Mike Forte. I did not need to add a dog bowl to accommodate the master cylinder - there is probably 3/8" clearance between the master cylinder and inner wheel well panel. If I remember correctly, I also had to cut some of the pedal connecting rod in order to attach the brake pedal. Here is a picture of my hydroboost setup:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174380&d=1667329827

James

[Highplainsdakota]

I also used a hydroboost setup from Mike Forte. I did not need to add a dog bowl to accommodate the master cylinder - there is probably 3/8" clearance between the master cylinder and inner wheel well panel. If I remember correctly, I also had to cut some of the pedal connecting rod in order to attach the brake pedal. Here is a picture of my hydroboost setup:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174380&d=1667329827

James

Thanks for the info! I went ahead and installed it the way the directions say. Thanks for the confidence. Here’s a few more pictures with the front wheel on to show clearance. 212070212069212071212072

[Highplainsdakota]

I need some help with the other side as well. There is no way to hook up the aluminum fork to the wilwood brake pedal to meet the specifications of 1.1” of travel. The wilwood master cylinder instructions say there must be this much travel for them to work safely if the front or rear depressurizes. With the fork out as far as possible so the brake pedal arm hits the crossmember, the travel is only 3/4” into the hydroboost system. I ground down a significant about of metal on both the fork and pedal to achieve even this. I noticed the cap head bolt he welded onto the hydroboost arm was also hitting the mouth of the hydroboost system unless it’s perfectly lined up.

Finally, I would like to reduce the overall brake pedal travel to decrease the pedal height somewhat. I drilled another hole in the pedal farther down so there was more arc of travel (fork pivot point farther from top pivot where the pedal connects.). This impinged the welded on screw head, the fork on the pedal, and the steering shaft.

I feel like I have to cut off his bolt and reeled something else that will work and change the pedal geometry as well. Not as turn key as I would have liked. Please help!

[Highplainsdakota]

Here are some pictures of the pedal at rest, all the way out against the frame

212073212074212075

[Highplainsdakota]

Here are some pictures with the brake depressed. Notice the fork impinging on the pedal, the socket screw trying to fit in the hydroboost hole, and the measured length difference, about 3/4”212076212077

[Highplainsdakota]

Anyone with pictures of the pedal side of mikes hydroboost system would help!

[dbo_texas]

Anyone with pictures of the pedal side of mikes hydroboost system would help!

I had to do a bunch of modifications to get my all working. I detailed my issues in post #104 (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40632-ATX-MKIV-9644-Coyote-Build-Thread-(Index-Post-137)&p=511498&viewfull=1#post511498) and #108 (solution) (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40632-ATX-MKIV-9644-Coyote-Build-Thread-(Index-Post-137)&p=511961&viewfull=1#post511961). I had to remove my hydroboost and cut off a portion of the threaded rod that goes into the brake pedal clevis. Hope this helps.

[Highplainsdakota]

So this is what I started with. I ground it down so it would have a chance of fitting in the hole of the hydroboost. The blue mark is 1.1”, or the minimum it is supposed to travel to bottom out the tandem master cylinder. Right now I’m at about 3/4 - 7/8”. That’s the full travel of my pedal. The only way to get more travel is to mount the clevis fork lower on the pedal.

212122212121

[dbo_texas]

So this is what I started with. I ground it down so it would have a chance of fitting in the hole of the hydroboost. The blue mark is 1.1”, or the minimum it is supposed to travel to bottom out the tandem master cylinder. Right now I’m at about 3/4 - 7/8”. That’s the full travel of my pedal. The only way to get more travel is to mount the clevis fork lower on the pedal.

212122212121

I'm not 100% sure i follow, but just comparing where I started (my thread post #104) to where I finished (my thread poste #108), your setup sure looks like my #104 post. I had to shorten the threads on the welded bolt so that I could screw the rod into the cleavis more (otherwise it would hit the back of the pedal arm. This allowed the piston to fully extend to its resting position. From my pics you can see that puts the head of the welded bolt just behind the cleavis...I couldn't even fit a standard nut in there to lock it in place, I had to grind it down to about 2mm thick so it would fit. You may be in a similar situation?
If your piston is pre-loaded (i.e. not in its resting position), that would explain why you aren't getting full pedal travel. I guess the part I don't get is that you say you have clearance to the 3/4 frame already? If so, then maybe your piston is all the way extended towards the pedal (and isn't pre-loaded). In my case, the pedal arm was pushing ON the frame rail initially and the piston was compressed by quite a bit (thus reducing travel and essentially having the brakes "always on").

It's worth noting we have different master cylinders mounted on the front of the hydroboost, so that could explain the differences in our setups. I think my master cylinder is from 2014 Mustang. I was never able to fully determine what model master cylinder I have but just Google searching, that's what I think I have.

[Highplainsdakota]

So this is what I started with. I ground it down so it would have a chance of fitting in the hole of the hydroboost. The blue mark is 1.1”, or the minimum it is supposed to travel to bottom out the tandem master cylinder. Right now I’m at about 3/4 - 7/8”. That’s the full travel of my pedal. The only way to get more travel is to mount the clevis fork lower on the pedal.

212122212121

[Highplainsdakota]

So I just went out and measured the actual travel of the mounting point in the pedal arm. It’s about 7/8” from crossbar to footbox aluminum. 1.1” travel is impossible without cutting the cross frame bar. Honestly even with the pedal arm touching the cross bar the pedal is really close to the driver. I was hoping for less overall pedal travel, and to start with the pedal a little farther forward.

This seems to me either everyone just mounts it like this ignoring the safety recommendations from wilwood, or the piston/pushrod travel of the hydroboost isn’t the same distance as the MC piston is traveling. Thoughts?

212125212126212127212128

[Highplainsdakota]

I'm not 100% sure i follow, but just comparing where I started (my thread post #104) to where I finished (my thread poste #108), your setup sure looks like my #104 post. I had to shorten the threads on the welded bolt so that I could screw the rod into the cleavis more (otherwise it would hit the back of the pedal arm. This allowed the piston to fully extend to its resting position. From my pics you can see that puts the head of the welded bolt just behind the cleavis...I couldn't even fit a standard nut in there to lock it in place, I had to grind it down to about 2mm thick so it would fit. You may be in a similar situation?
If your piston is pre-loaded (i.e. not in its resting position), that would explain why you aren't getting full pedal travel. I guess the part I don't get is that you say you have clearance to the 3/4 frame already? If so, then maybe your piston is all the way extended towards the pedal (and isn't pre-loaded). In my case, the pedal arm was pushing ON the frame rail initially and the piston was compressed by quite a bit (thus reducing travel and essentially having the brakes "always on").

It's worth noting we have different master cylinders mounted on the front of the hydroboost, so that could explain the differences in our setups. I think my master cylinder is from 2014 Mustang. I was never able to fully determine what model master cylinder I have but just Google searching, that's what I think I have.

Did you actually have your pedal bottom out to a firm stop before it hit the firewall before your system was primed and bled? If you look at my recent posts after yours it is impossible to get 1.1" of travel from the wilwood pedal box as designed. So what are people doing?

[dbo_texas]

Did you actually have your pedal bottom out to a firm stop before it hit the firewall before your system was primed and bled? If you look at my recent posts after yours it is impossible to get 1.1" of travel from the wilwood pedal box as designed. So what are people doing?

I'm not 100% certain but if I recall, before I added brake fluid and bled the system, I don't think I was bottoming the pedal on the firewall...maybe that means I was bottoming out the MC piston travel? But I could be wrong about that....I just don't remember.

I do have on my list this safety critical item to check (losing pressure in front, but maintaining in the rear, and vice-versa). I came across a thread several years ago which seemed to point out this exact safety flaw in the hydroboost setup with the Wilwood master cylinder so added it to my list to verify before I get on the road. I followed this thread for a while and it's on my list to check but I haven't done it yet (I'm still building). But you may want to read through this POST (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?28186-Hydroboost-Power-Brakes-Potential-Safety-Issue) --> the last time I asked on this post from 10/3/2022 the original poster didn't give an update so not sure if swapping to a different MC solved his issue. But it's worth a read - you might be having the same issue and you could try sending a PM to JIMLAND (original poster on that thread) to see if he figured it out. If you haven't already, I'd highly encourage you to also call Mike Forte - the guy is a wealth of knowledge and in my personal experience, he will bend over backwards to help you figure this out. Please keep posting updates here for the collective mind! I'm sure folks more knowledgeable than me will chime in too.

[Rian_Colorado]

I'm at this exact point in my build as well, so I'm interested in the input you get. I read this yesterday, and like you, measured the total throw of the pedal from cross member to firewall. (yes, right about 1" total). As both of you have mentioned, it looks like I'm going to have to cut some off of the bolt so that the pedal doesn't contact the cross member (easier for me since it's at the build stage!). I talked to Mike a few days ago about that, and he said that shouldn't present any problems. I just have to figure out exactly how MUCH to cut off.....

What I'm thinking one of 2 things is the case:

1) That the 1.1" of travel is going to be way overkill. Many people have this setup, and I've not read anywhere that others have had any problem. I'm assuming that the recommended 1.1" is in the event of power fluid pump failure (i.e., if the motor dies, and you lose power boost). Then you wouldn't get full MC travel with LESS than 1.1" of movement of the piston bolt at the brake pedal end. (Which yes, could be concerning). Then again, that unlikely situation is what emergency brakes are for.

2) The "1.1" of throw" looks to come from the Wilwood information regarding movement of the MC rod. I'm wondering if the amount of travel of the pedal vs the amount of travel of the Wilwood piston is NOT proportional? (i.e. - .5" of travel at the pedal side = 1" of movement at the MC side of the hydroboost?) This should be easy enough to check by removing the MC, and measuring the movement of the pushrod relative to the pedal side.


I'm VERY curious though about what others who have this setup in place have to say about it. As you mention, I'm REALLY hoping to adjust the pedal AWAY from the driver a bit to increase legroom. It appears that shortening that "throw" will be the only way to accomplish that....

Hoping someone with this setup chimes in. I know Lidodrip has this setup in his car, might reach out to him .....

RR

[Highplainsdakota]

I'm at this exact point in my build as well, so I'm interested in the input you get. I read this yesterday, and like you, measured the total throw of the pedal from cross member to firewall. (yes, right about 1" total). As both of you have mentioned, it looks like I'm going to have to cut some off of the bolt so that the pedal doesn't contact the cross member (easier for me since it's at the build stage!). I talked to Mike a few days ago about that, and he said that shouldn't present any problems. I just have to figure out exactly how MUCH to cut off.....

What I'm thinking one of 2 things is the case:

1) That the 1.1" of travel is going to be way overkill. Many people have this setup, and I've not read anywhere that others have had any problem. I'm assuming that the recommended 1.1" is in the event of power fluid pump failure (i.e., if the motor dies, and you lose power boost). Then you wouldn't get full MC travel with LESS than 1.1" of movement of the piston bolt at the brake pedal end. (Which yes, could be concerning). Then again, that unlikely situation is what emergency brakes are for.

2) The "1.1" of throw" looks to come from the Wilwood information regarding movement of the MC rod. I'm wondering if the amount of travel of the pedal vs the amount of travel of the Wilwood piston is NOT proportional? (i.e. - .5" of travel at the pedal side = 1" of movement at the MC side of the hydroboost?) This should be easy enough to check by removing the MC, and measuring the movement of the pushrod relative to the pedal side.


I'm VERY curious though about what others who have this setup in place have to say about it. As you mention, I'm REALLY hoping to adjust the pedal AWAY from the driver a bit to increase legroom. It appears that shortening that "throw" will be the only way to accomplish that....

Hoping someone with this setup chimes in. I know Lidodrip has this setup in his car, might reach out to him .....

RR

Thanks for the reply. You hit every point I'm making.

1: 1.1" travel with the wilwood pedal box is not possible.
2: Likely only a problem with one sided failure (which is why I think everyone who has this setup has this issue and hasn't noticed it, measured, or cared) Perhaps a calculated risk?
3: Maybe I have a different wilwood pedal box for some reason? (I think this is highly unlikely. Matches the build manual and other forum posts, also Mike didn't say anything when he modified it)
4: Throw of the hydroboost piston arm is different than the MC. I'm not sure this is likely but certainly possible. I admit I'm not sure how to check this. I will probably take them apart and snoop around. I tried to press the hydroboost piston in just to see if it actually traveled that far and I couldn't generate enough force. I'll have to make a mount out of some steel in my vice and rig up a lever. I'll report back.

As far as cutting off some of the bolt. Just take 1/4". I would mill off some of the pedal aluminum first as well as the bottom of the clevis/fork so it doesn't hit. As far as a solution, I think I'm going to make another clevis/fork out of steel that has longer arms and extends to the front of the pedal arm and below the factory hole. This will give me more linear motion and more of an ark. Should get me the 1.1 I need. Another option is to make an angled bushing of aluminum or steel to tilt the angle of the hydroboost on the firewall footbox steeper so the arm points lower on the pedal, giving more arc and throw. I talked to Mike Forte and I'm pretty sure he thinks I'm crazy. Then again maybe I am...

[Highplainsdakota]

I'm at this exact point in my build as well, so I'm interested in the input you get. I read this yesterday, and like you, measured the total throw of the pedal from cross member to firewall. (yes, right about 1" total). As both of you have mentioned, it looks like I'm going to have to cut some off of the bolt so that the pedal doesn't contact the cross member (easier for me since it's at the build stage!). I talked to Mike a few days ago about that, and he said that shouldn't present any problems. I just have to figure out exactly how MUCH to cut off.....

What I'm thinking one of 2 things is the case:

1) That the 1.1" of travel is going to be way overkill. Many people have this setup, and I've not read anywhere that others have had any problem. I'm assuming that the recommended 1.1" is in the event of power fluid pump failure (i.e., if the motor dies, and you lose power boost). Then you wouldn't get full MC travel with LESS than 1.1" of movement of the piston bolt at the brake pedal end. (Which yes, could be concerning). Then again, that unlikely situation is what emergency brakes are for.

2) The "1.1" of throw" looks to come from the Wilwood information regarding movement of the MC rod. I'm wondering if the amount of travel of the pedal vs the amount of travel of the Wilwood piston is NOT proportional? (i.e. - .5" of travel at the pedal side = 1" of movement at the MC side of the hydroboost?) This should be easy enough to check by removing the MC, and measuring the movement of the pushrod relative to the pedal side.


I'm VERY curious though about what others who have this setup in place have to say about it. As you mention, I'm REALLY hoping to adjust the pedal AWAY from the driver a bit to increase legroom. It appears that shortening that "throw" will be the only way to accomplish that....

Hoping someone with this setup chimes in. I know Lidodrip has this setup in his car, might reach out to him .....

RR

Maybe wait to make the 1/4" cut off the bolt. I cut off about 1/2" from the hydroboost bolt. Since i also took a significant amount of aluminum from the clevis fork as well as the back of the pedal arm, I now have the angle of travel I need. The aluminum I removed from the back of the pedal arm was enough to probably make the cutting of the bolt irrelevant. Maybe do that first. The pedal is probably easier to replace than the difficulty welding on another bolt. With my 1/2" cut off, and the fork bolted to the factory hole in the pedal arm the bolt is recessed about 1/4" to 3/8" in the fork. If we conclude that people usually set up the hydroboost and don't ever measure this 1.1" that we are after, then I would rather have as much bolt through the fork as possible.

If I stick with the factory location and accept the 7/8" pedal throw, I shouldn't have cut that much off. If I make a longer fork I don't need that long of a bolt anymore anyway.

I also had problems with the head of the bolt hitting the hydroboost mouth and had to grind it down so it would fit. I can confirm you can rotate the bolt in the hydroboost with a channel lock since it is usually welded on at a slight angle. You may have to turn it to clear.

[Rian_Colorado]

So I took probably 3/8 off of that bolt (Didn't take anything off of the clevis or the pedal) Works perfectly. I have it installed in the car, with the pedal setup as far forward as possible (basically 1/16 off of the cross member). When I bottom out the pedal, I can get 2 fingers between the pedal and the firewall. When I say "bottom out" I mean the threaded/welded component will no go ANY further (I'm betting that the Wilwood MC is bottomed out at this position).

This appears to be the full range of motion of the hydro-boost. I have to assume that the hydro-boost/pedal side of this setup isn't moving anywhere near the 1.1".

Of course this is all with NO hydraulic fluid/power installed yet! Hard to get to test the whole thing yet with no motor in the car yet!

Let me know if you want pics of anything in my setup or a video of how mine is functioning to compare it to

RR

[Highplainsdakota]

So I took probably 3/8 off of that bolt (Didn't take anything off of the clevis or the pedal) Works perfectly. I have it installed in the car, with the pedal setup as far forward as possible (basically 1/16 off of the cross member). When I bottom out the pedal, I can get 2 fingers between the pedal and the firewall. When I say "bottom out" I mean the threaded/welded component will no go ANY further (I'm betting that the Wilwood MC is bottomed out at this position).

This appears to be the full range of motion of the hydro-boost. I have to assume that the hydro-boost/pedal side of this setup isn't moving anywhere near the 1.1".

Of course this is all with NO hydraulic fluid/power installed yet! Hard to get to test the whole thing yet with no motor in the car yet!

Let me know if you want pics of anything in my setup or a video of how mine is functioning to compare it to

RR

That’s really interesting. It was at this moment in my build that I found the bottom of the clevis fork was impinging on the back of the pedal arm stopping the continued rearward motion of the pedal. Might want to check that.

The next thing I checked was the head of the bolt welded onto the hydroboost arm. Mine was hitting the edge of the opening into the hydroboost. Once I sanded it down it allowed it to go further in.

Finally, I measured from the opening of the hydroboost to the front of the bolt head at rest then at full push to determine how much actual travel there was. If not just for your own curiosity, I would love to know if these are happening in your build. Thanks for taking the time to compare! Any information really helps.

[Highplainsdakota]

212174212173

I posted these before, but this shows how much metal I took off the pedal and the bottom of the clevis fork in order to allow more pedal travel. I don’t see how anyone would have pedal travel without doing this. Also you can see the head of the welded onto bolt hitting the opening of the hydroboost. I think it would fit if it went straight in but the angle doesn’t allow that. This is why I shaved that down.

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

I installed my under dash I fabricated from 12 g aluminum. It’s really rigid. This was rivited with the firewall so that’s done. Since I used the deeper firewall modification I decided to cut two of my wire holes in the bottom instead of the back so I didn’t hit the back of the engine.


212214

[Rian_Colorado]

Good catch on the clevis contacting the brake pedal arm, that turned out to be exactly where my contact (so stop point) was indeed!

Like you, I notched the brake pedal ever so much, and just took off a tiny sliver of the lower part of the clevis arm. This now allows the pedal to contact the front of the footbox. Mine actually contacts the bottom of the steering bearing (non-rotational part, so not worried about it.)

My setup showed up with SOME grinding on that bolt (I assume from Forte / his guys). I DID grind on it a bit more as you show, and it does enter inside the hydro=boost about 3/32".

None of this tells us anything regarding the recommended travel of the pivot point however. I'm confident that we are getting as much (or likely far more) travel that many other builders that have this system installed however. The biggest benefit is that if the required travel ISN'T that much, we'll have quite a bit more room to move the pedal towards the firewall to gain legroom. (Then again, I might have to take more off that bolt, which I'm not keen on doing)

REALLY the only test is running the system at getting a feel for where it "locks em up". That's obviously going to depend on a NUMBER of things at the other end (what calipers/rotors/pads/wheels/tires). Still, the largest worry in my mind is some type of hydraulic boost failure that would require maximum travel to achieve maximum braking. I can't think of a real good way to test that either once the entire system is up and running. I'm confident that I would get quite a bit of brakes in that situation, but the e-brake COULD come into play....

I'm sure Mike has sold his fair share of these, and I would think others would have mentioned any kind of failure had there been one. That gives me enough confidence - Not that I'm interested in being the failure guinea pig!

I'll try to remember to post something once I've got it at go-cart stage

Rian

[Highplainsdakota]

Good catch on the clevis contacting the brake pedal arm, that turned out to be exactly where my contact (so stop point) was indeed!

Like you, I notched the brake pedal ever so much, and just took off a tiny sliver of the lower part of the clevis arm. This now allows the pedal to contact the front of the footbox. Mine actually contacts the bottom of the steering bearing (non-rotational part, so not worried about it.)

My setup showed up with SOME grinding on that bolt (I assume from Forte / his guys). I DID grind on it a bit more as you show, and it does enter inside the hydro=boost about 3/32".

None of this tells us anything regarding the recommended travel of the pivot point however. I'm confident that we are getting as much (or likely far more) travel that many other builders that have this system installed however. The biggest benefit is that if the required travel ISN'T that much, we'll have quite a bit more room to move the pedal towards the firewall to gain legroom. (Then again, I might have to take more off that bolt, which I'm not keen on doing)

REALLY the only test is running the system at getting a feel for where it "locks em up". That's obviously going to depend on a NUMBER of things at the other end (what calipers/rotors/pads/wheels/tires). Still, the largest worry in my mind is some type of hydraulic boost failure that would require maximum travel to achieve maximum braking. I can't think of a real good way to test that either once the entire system is up and running. I'm confident that I would get quite a bit of brakes in that situation, but the e-brake COULD come into play....

I'm sure Mike has sold his fair share of these, and I would think others would have mentioned any kind of failure had there been one. That gives me enough confidence - Not that I'm interested in being the failure guinea pig!

I'll try to remember to post something once I've got it at go-cart stage

Rian

I agree and I think we're thinking about this correctly and I'm getting my mind around this issue. I'm more confident now that others with this system simply don't know it's supposed to go further in, and don't find out because the brakes probably work fine. Even in a rear or front failure they would likely start to get braking after 50% travel (manual says 50-80% to engage other tandem MC) and at least have some brakes. At 3/4" or 7/8" they're approaching 80%. Those that had a failure and didn't have any brakes probably aren't around to complain! Sorry, terrible joke.

Here's my latest fix: I thought hard about a scissor system with two pivot points but it would be very difficult geometry to get right and make it robust enough to trust. The factory starting point is just below the top pivot so the "swing" of the arm makes the clevis pivot go back and up. I figured if we could start in front of the top pivot we would get more horizontal travel instead of losing rearward motion as the pedal arm swings up. So I drilled this hole and measured it. It looks like my new hole swings 1 3/16". This equates to 1.1875"! It looks like I made it, but that's ALL of the travel. If I go cross bar to footbox with no insulation or carpet behind the pedal arm I'm home free. Next step is to make sure the pushrod fits in the hydroboost with the new angle. If that does, then I can truly tell if the MC bottoms out. I'll report back!

[Highplainsdakota]

212220212221212222212223

[Highplainsdakota]

I figured it out!

I decided to give up on the clevis fork that came with the pedal box and make my own. A longer version wouldn't impinge and would allow a lower pivot point on the pedal arm to increase translation. While I was making this, I realized I could make one that angled 45 degrees and attached even lower! Two more drill holes in the pedal arm later and I had the pivit point figured. Wow, what a difference. I achieved nearly two inches of travel instead of the 3/4" the factory hole allows!

Since I ground down the head bolt on Mike Forte's hydroboost and found his welds, I ground it down further and welded it again for extra strength. Hopefully there were no nearby seals to be damaged by the heat. I had a wet rag nearby to keep it cool. After yet another trial run (I think I've uninstalled and reinstalled the hydroboost about 20 times now) I was impressed with the motion. Not only did I reduce my over all brake pedal throw, but also increased the piston travel to just over 1.1" that is recommended. I'll post some pics below. Now that I have that and the pedal box firmly and finally mounted, and the firewall siliconed and rivited, I can move forward with wiring. It was a great feeling getting past this part. That being said, I do wonder how many people out there are running short throws with this system.

Below is the description for my modification.

I took some pictures of the new fork I made for future reference. The fork is made from 3/4" x 3/16" mild steel bar stock. I cut and welded the arms of the fork at a 45 degree down angle. The arms are about 2.5" long from the center of the back of the fork to the center of the pivot holes. I think you could get away with shorter because mine is adjusted all the way onto the hydroboost bolt and my pedal stops about 1/2" from the footbox wall. If you need the pedal to push in farther make it shorter. There's a nut welded on the inside of the fork.

The 3/8" hole to drill in the pedal arm can be identified by the aluminum ribs. Just snug the drill bit into the angled portion of the aluminum. This resulted in about 2" of travel overall from crossmember to foot box wall allowing for pedal adjustment. I used a second nut on the bolt to secure the fork. I also ground away some material from either side of the pedal arm to account for the thickness of the steel arms in the fork. This allowed it to clear the steering shaft. I added a washer to the left side (outside) of the pedal arm pin to keep the cross pin away from the steering arm as well. The aluminum webbing around the drill hole should support the hole enough for stepping on the brakes.

I hope this helps guys!

[Highplainsdakota]

212343212344212345212346212347

[Highplainsdakota]

212348212349212350212351212352

[Highplainsdakota]

Another note on this hydroboost thing. Now that I have a bunch of travel, I still don't get the MC to bottom out. I'm comfortable now with the travel, but if someone is hitting an endpoint when using this system, you are probably binding or impinging on the clevis fort, bolt head, pedal arm, or something.

[Highplainsdakota]

Hey Guys,

So the hydroboost is in and the tandem MC is in place with the bias controller. This has one port for the rears and two for the front brakes assuming I would plumb one line for each wheel. I had followed the directions up to this point so I have a T in the brake lines at the driver’s front wheel. The instructions say I can plug one and plumb both front wheels with one output, but it would be easy to plumb both. Would I lose much just using one output? Chime in if you have experience with this product. Thanks

[Highplainsdakota]

I decided to plumb the front brakes separately. The passenger side connection doesn’t look great so I may redo that. I think I’ll use the jack stands and my jack to tilt the chassis in order to level the master cylinder while priming and bleeding the system.212433212434

[Highplainsdakota]

I need to start looking into my custom roll bar. Someone suggested that Whitby's has a 2" single roll bar but I don't like the height and I'd rather keep it at 1.75". I've been shopping around to see who can bend 1.75" pipe but haven't found someone that can do it yet. My plan was to use mild steel, 0.120" diameter. I don't plan on racing so I shouldn't need to meet any specs. I would like to rake the single roll bar back about 15 degrees just as it leaves the body, then a larger 90 degree radius to the cross beam. I need the roll bar to be lower because of the hard top I'm going to use.

Here's the question. Some roll bars seem to have a smooth radius on the bend with a consistent diameter of the tubing. In some roll bars you can see the tube is flattened at the radius. I would like the consistent tubing diameter look but I'm not sure how to achieve this. The factory five 1.5" roll bar seems to have a perfect diameter throughout their 180 degree bend.

#1: Can this be achieved by simply bending the tubing? (As long as I can find someone to do it)
#2: Does the steel have to be cut, welded, ground down for this effect?

I was also hoping to fix the rear supports in place just below the body for a seamless appearance, but I'm not sure that's possible. Has anyone tried a robust coupler instead of the usual male / female connection? Thanks

[Highplainsdakota]

Finally got my brake lines where I want them. I’m waiting to rivet them down until they pass the brake bleed. I was supposed to bench bleed the wilwood tandem MC, but it sounded like a mess. I decided to tilt the chassis instead. Should work the same.

.212456212457212458

[Highplainsdakota]

Update: I bled the brakes with the car tilted to make the MC level and it went very well. Nice firm pedal feel. As soon as I check for leaks I can finish the trunk aluminum.

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

I had no leaks with the brake test so it looks like I can move on. I put a full day in yesterday and riveted the fuse box in place, added a support bracket like many have done, and made some progress on the drop trunk. I removed both diagonal supports that run through the drop trunk, but we noticed some flex of the frame with stress. Since the body is supported on the rear as well as the gas tank we decided to weld the longer diagonal back in. I also must have bought the wrong kind of aluminum plate because it broke in my metal brake instead of bending. I decided to use aluminum angle on these areas instead.

I finished the trunk side walls and the upper floor as well. I have a lot of gaps to fill to seal the trunk and cockpit. I like the JB weld paste but it’s hard to get into those corners to roughen the metal up and remove the powder coat. That will take me some time.

Finished the clutch safety switch and brake switch. Riveted down the last of my hard brake line as well. After I get all the gaps filled I can spend some time on dynamat and koolmat.

I’m looking for some brown or tan carpet to use in the car. What type of carpet do you guys recommend? I’ve looked into the square weave stuff but I can’t tell what would work well and look good in the roadster. Opinions welcome!

[Highplainsdakota]

212822212823212824212825

[Highplainsdakota]

Update:

More work on the drop trunk, adding support and sealing with metal tape. I also installed the trunk floor covers and foot box duct fans. Still looking for a place to install the valve gates. They are pretty big, but I might put them just behind the brake vents in the front. I did a test run on the fans and electronic valves. The fans are simply on-off when powered. The valve has one power input and two ground slots. When connecting one ground the valve slowly closes and stops drawing power when closed. The other ground opens. I may do a three way toggle switch where the middle position opens the duct, and the top position turns on the fan giving me a powered option if I want it.

Does anyone have a source for a vent duct attachment that fits just behind the fiberglass brake vent ports? I’m using 3” hose but 4” would be fine as well.

I fitted up my reservoirs but I need to get a needle and syringe to the shop to back fill the top of the master cylinders and hose so I don’t have a bubble of air on top of the MCs.

212969212970212971

[dbo_texas]

Does anyone have a source for a vent duct attachment that fits just behind the fiberglass brake vent ports? I’m using 3” hose but 4” would be fine as well.

I went with these for the connection to the body but after receiving them I can't say I recommend them....they seem really big and will need to be trimmed to get the shaped to match the body: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006K8K8HG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Another option which might fit a little better (others have used): https://prdcrrct.com/product/nose-vent-adapter-kit/?v=0b3b97fa6688

The 3rd option is from the vendor who's name shall not be mentioned, so I won't post the link :)

[Highplainsdakota]

An update and a thank you in general to all the support here. After perusing some threads here in my down time I ran across some people who found errors in the Ron Francis wiring harness. ie427 has a video discussing this as well. I went through my wiring harness which is already zip tied in place and found an entire weatherpack connector pinned mirror image wrong from the opposite side. It was all the turn signals. I had it connected properly but the wire colors were opposite the other side. Now I need to find the tool to unpin them and fix it. I wouldn’t have thought to check if I hadn’t seen it on this forum as an issue!

I finished attaching my reservoirs for my brakes and filled them. Finished my drop trunk and drilled for the cubby divider wall. There is a lot I can’t move on with before I test fit my body to check for panels to trim.

Many say the rear trunk panel is a usual trim piece. Some say the passenger shoulder panel. Which one is this? My plan is to place the body without any bulb seal or 3/4” tube felt just to see where things lie. Do an initial trim and recheck with some of that felt and bulb seal in place. Then I can decide on seat location, check my dash bends, reservoir heights, etc. I noticed some are placing bushings, stacked grommets or bumpers, etc on the front 3/4” hood rails to bump the body up. I’m all for this if it doesn’t mess with the door fitting etc. Someone even used part of a hockey puck. Is there a general recommendation here?

I’ve gone off script a bit with all the wonderful additions from breeze and other customizations, and I suspect some of these will alter my body fitting. I have the forward firewall from ffmetal, cubby divider, and a subwoofer box between the divider and rear 3/4” hoop. Let me know if I’m missing something.

Also on the bulb seal. Does it go all the way across the rear cockpit wall or just on the outer wings and back along the trunk uprights? Should I get bulb seal for my cubby divider? Thanks

[Highplainsdakota]

Hopefully someone will chime in on my above post but I wanted to put another thank you out there to Mike Forte for his help with the custom parts. His brake hydroboost system that I had a hell of a time installing to get the pedal situation right also had a mismatched fitting that was too small for the hole. He's sending me a new part and he covered shipping on his end. It can be difficult for me to tell if I have an incorrect part or if I simply don't know what I'm doing. I've rebuilt a CJ7 before but I'm still pretty weak in my automotive knowledge, so I have to rely on the vendors and the forum here for insight and help when I run into a problem. Mike has been very helpful and is a wealth of knowledge. He's been pretty patient with me too! I wouldn't hesitate to purchase his gear for these projects. He's finishing up my engine right now and I'm excited to get to the next steps.

[John Ibele]

An update and a thank you in general to all the support here. After perusing some threads here in my down time I ran across some people who found errors in the Ron Francis wiring harness. ie427 has a video discussing this as well. I went through my wiring harness which is already zip tied in place and found an entire weatherpack connector pinned mirror image wrong from the opposite side. It was all the turn signals. I had it connected properly but the wire colors were opposite the other side. Now I need to find the tool to unpin them and fix it. I wouldn’t have thought to check if I hadn’t seen it on this forum as an issue!

I finished attaching my reservoirs for my brakes and filled them. Finished my drop trunk and drilled for the cubby divider wall. There is a lot I can’t move on with before I test fit my body to check for panels to trim.

Many say the rear trunk panel is a usual trim piece. Some say the passenger shoulder panel. Which one is this? My plan is to place the body without any bulb seal or 3/4” tube felt just to see where things lie. Do an initial trim and recheck with some of that felt and bulb seal in place. Then I can decide on seat location, check my dash bends, reservoir heights, etc. I noticed some are placing bushings, stacked grommets or bumpers, etc on the front 3/4” hood rails to bump the body up. I’m all for this if it doesn’t mess with the door fitting etc. Someone even used part of a hockey puck. Is there a general recommendation here?

I’ve gone off script a bit with all the wonderful additions from breeze and other customizations, and I suspect some of these will alter my body fitting. I have the forward firewall from ffmetal, cubby divider, and a subwoofer box between the divider and rear 3/4” hoop. Let me know if I’m missing something.

Also on the bulb seal. Does it go all the way across the rear cockpit wall or just on the outer wings and back along the trunk uprights? Should I get bulb seal for my cubby divider? Thanks

Hopefully this pic tells you what you need to know about the bulb seal locations. Not on the cockpit back, but yes for the rear corners. There is foam strip padding on the top of the trunk hoop in the foreground of this shot. Then bulb seal on the firewall as shown. Note the foam strip going down the front rails as well - you can see this next to the bumper in the second photo as well.

I think you should be able to click or double click on the photo to blow it up ... and maybe cruise around in the photo album as well.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52827830678_ea587d0c13_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oudryS)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oudryS) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

For the bumpers on the front, you'll be able to tell how much you need when you do a trial fit of the body (and plan on many trial fits). I found some rubber strip I had sitting around, cut 3 thicknesses for about 5/8" total, and called it good.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52822188850_17052d41e4_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2otHwrY)
Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2otHwrY) by John Ibele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/familycobra/), on Flickr

[Highplainsdakota]

That helps a lot. I’ve taken the body on and off 3 times now to make sure everything fits and it seems OK. Kleiner and others recommend the 5/8” rubber on the front of the frame which worked perfectly. My sub box needed to be ground down but it fits well now.

I still have the extra electrical circuits to run but things are coming together.

[Highplainsdakota]

Well I suppose most builders have a time when they hit the wall with their build. Mine came shortly after my last post when my engine showed up. I was so excited to unpack the engine and check out my 363 stroker. When I unpacked the crate, the engine mount welds had cracked. The engine had been rocking back and forth in the crate. There were gouges in the aluminum head and block, dents in the oil pan, oil filter was crunched, a spark plug wire was bent, and the clutch slave cylinder was damaged. Several other cosmetic scratches were found as well. I was pretty disappointed. I’m still working with insurance, shippers, and the builder to make things right although a non-damaged engine doesn’t seem likely anymore.

It took all the momentum out of the project. Life events started to get in the way and I had to walk away for a few months. The roadster still sits just as I left it. Tools and bolts of the various steps in the same spot. Yesterday I took the first few steps relearning where I was and what my next steps will be. I’m sure this will all add up the to feeling of success when I reach the end of the project.

What’s been interesting is that I feel like I’ve lost touch with all of this community’s build threads as well! I had been following along and gathering the tidbits of info to help me and trying to add some info of my own to help others as well. I’m going to spend some time reading through all of your roadster builds to catch up on what I missed. I’m sure I will have several questions for the community in the coming weeks as I get my momentum back. I’ve had some challenges, but getting back into the swing of building is taking some time. I’m looking forward to a cold winter to give me plenty of shop time.

These build threads are for documentation of the ups as well as the downs so I figured I’d share the struggle. Glad to be back and pictures to come in the next few days.

[Blitzboy54]

That is a bummer. I’m sorry to hear about your troubles. Brand new drivetrains are not cheap. I hope you get your engine sorted and get back into the build. I promise it’s worth it.


Good luck

[Highplainsdakota]

I appreciate it. I’m hoping to be back on track later this week.

[Highplainsdakota]

Ok, I'm back with more updates:

I was able to get the engine installed using the gantry crane I built without a lot of hassle. I needed to lift the TKX tranny up with some washers to clear the cross brace in the trans tunnel. I ended up stripping the threaded aluminum on one side of the transmission mount because the bolt was short. Now with long bolts in the same holes it's nice and tight.

After reading a few threads on the forum, someone mentioned Mike Forte puts a plate between the intake manifold and the throttle body, so I took that out. I have the sensors for the Edelbrock pro flo 4 installed except the O2 and air temp. I ended up drilling a hole in the bottom of my air filter for that sensor, but I'll install when I have more room. I installed the mechanical throttle linkage from Forte and it feels great. I added a strut from the frame to reduce unwanted motion and make the throttle responsive and accurate. The clutch master and slave cylinder were plumbed and bled.

I finished my gas lines. I used coated flexible lines from Breeze with AN fittings. I decided on a series plumbing with the regulator after the fuel rails before heading back to the tank. Forte says I need to be at 58 psi for the 363 so I'll adjust that when I get things running. I used the same hose for high pressure power steering fluid to my brake hydroboost and down to the power steering. Breeze helped me out again with the low pressure hose in a T fashion back to the reservoir. I filled it with honda power steering fluid. I'm planning on a few engine cranks with the fuel pump fuse removed to plumb all the fluids and lube the engine when the time comes. I wired the starter and installed a starter heat shield wrap per some recommendations. Can't hurt.

I have the dash secured with rivnuts and stainless bolts on top and bottom. It's really secure but I need about 1/16" foam or rubber between the dash and frame rail to keep things from rattling. The steering hub with blinkers I had made from i.e.427 is simply too long. I was really looking forward to it but I also wanted a removable steering wheel for access. I went with NRT racing for a thin quick release and it looks great. I have decided to cut a hole in the dash to sink the steering hub for even more clearance. I did lose my blinkers and horn in the process so I need to figure out where those switches will go.

I have more sensors to install on the engine for the speed hut gauges, so I have fittings ordered. I ordered a 6 way relay fuse box in anticipation of electrical add ons like seat heaters, power vents, hidden front license plate deployment, and maybe other gadgetry. I decided on studs for the header install but that will wait until I have more heat shielding in the engine bay and around wires and hoses.

I'll post pictures to follow.

[Highplainsdakota]

222953222954222955222956

[Highplainsdakota]

Here are a few questions:

I attempted to install my driveshaft yesterday and could not get it to fit. The manual says to come in from the top driver's side, but I don't see that to be possible. I could remove one of the universal joints but it takes quite a bit of force to uninstall and reinstall those requiring a lot of hammering under the car.

Worse, The adaptor plate between the rear drive shaft universal joint and the IRS doesn't fit. The bolt holes don't line up with the plate on the back of the drive shaft. I understand there are two versions of the adaptor for different IRS, but that shouldn't affect the driveshaft attachment. Below are some pics

[Highplainsdakota]

222961222962222963222964

[cv2065]

Looking good. Glad you kept at it and didn't get discouraged. What was the outcome of your engine issue? I'm not sure what you are using from Frank at i.e. 427, but he makes a hub that is geared for a quick release steering wheel and I think its thinner by design. I wouldn't want to give up the turn signals and horn on the wheel so might reach out to him and see if you can get it worked out.

Check your driveshaft and ensure that you have the correct one. Sometimes they get mixed up from FFR. If you do, it will fit. Sometimes you just have to monkey around with it and get it in the exact right position. My first build, it took two 30 minute sessions and some choice words to figure it out. This last build, about 30 seconds. Suddenly, it will just fit into place when you are least expecting it. I wouldn't be pulling the U-joints or hammering anything.

Does your adaptor plate fit/mount up to the transmission by itself?

[Highplainsdakota]

The rear of the Tremec TKX has splines that seem like they would fit into the drive shaft, although I didn't check that before installing the engine and transmission. The adaptor plate fits the rear IRS. The four threaded bolt holes on the adaptor plate are in a rectangular pattern, not square like the back of the drive shaft. You can sort of see this in the picture above or look at my caliper measurements. And for the life of me, why do the pictures keep showing up in a random rotation? Sheesh. I'll call FFR tomorrow, but I agree that it could be the adaptor plate or the driveshaft.

[cv2065]

The rear of the Tremec TKX has splines that seem like they would fit into the drive shaft, although I didn't check that before installing the engine and transmission. The adaptor plate fits the rear IRS. The four threaded bolt holes on the adaptor plate are in a rectangular pattern, not square like the back of the drive shaft. You can sort of see this in the picture above or look at my caliper measurements. And for the life of me, why do the pictures keep showing up in a random rotation? Sheesh. I'll call FFR tomorrow, but I agree that it could be the adaptor plate or the driveshaft.

If the splines fit, then you should have the right driveshaft, but definitely call FFR and get a confirmation. I use photobucket to post my photos and Youtube for videos. Photobucket costs $12 a month and very easy to embed the photos in any size/orientation and keeps them all together.

[Highplainsdakota]

Called FFR and confirmed. They sent me the wrong driveshaft. Part number was wrong and it was 2.5” too long with the 28 vs 31 splines. No wonder why the thing didn’t “slide in from the top drivers side”. We were at it 20 min until we figured there was no way to do that. Good news is that’s another problem solved.

I’m debating wiring in a simple toggle switch behind the dash in series with the inertia ground switch as an easy fuel shut off. I know some put a red switch in the cab. I doubt I’ll ever formally race or drag this car so I’m not sure I need it. May make priming the oil and fluids easier.

[cv2065]

Called FFR and confirmed. They sent me the wrong driveshaft. Part number was wrong and it was 2.5” too long with the 28 vs 31 splines. No wonder why the thing didn’t “slide in from the top drivers side”. We were at it 20 min until we figured there was no way to do that. Good news is that’s another problem solved.

I’m debating wiring in a simple toggle switch behind the dash in series with the inertia ground switch as an easy fuel shut off. I know some put a red switch in the cab. I doubt I’ll ever formally race or drag this car so I’m not sure I need it. May make priming the oil and fluids easier.

Glad you got the driveshaft worked out.

I didn't think I'd use a traditional cutoff switch in the cab for anything but occasional security but added anyway. Plus, it just looks :cool:. Boy was I wrong. Just in the build process alone it's been invaluable, especially when shutting the power down from the switch instead of pulling a terminal at the battery for electrical work or accidentally turning on the fuel pump when working on the plumbing. :p. Wouldn't do another build without one.

[Mike.Bray]

222956

Love the shark!!!

I hope there's a story behind it.

[Highplainsdakota]

That’s just the kind of feedback I was looking for. I don’t want to do unnecessary steps but it’s so easy to put in right now. Thanks again for the reply!

[Highplainsdakota]

Glad you noticed! It’s a 12’ hammerhead replica. I caught an 11’7” hammerhead in Fort Lauderdale about 14 years ago. I said I wanted to mount it so the charter first mate pulled it into the boat with a rope. We took pictures sitting right next to it before pushing it out to sea. It was like dragging a wet cow out of the ocean. Now they don’t even let you pull them out anymore. They have all been replica mounts for a while. I paid 50% down but couldn’t afford to finish it or ship it, nor did I have a place to hang it until 10 years later. Then I built this shop and pulled the trigger.

The funny thing is most people that come into the shop don’t notice it. It’s just a little too high and with just stuff going on they miss it.

[Highplainsdakota]

On mine I only have two. The high pressure out and the low pressure return. The power steering has high in and low out. The forte hydroboost has high in, high pass through, and low out. I used the high pressure pass through on the hydroboost to feed the power steering, and had to “T” the low pressure from hydroboost and power steering back to the low intake reservoir.

[RobHartley]

Thanks for this, I realized I should post this on the main forum so I deleted the post, but you were quick on the draw and answered the question, Thanks a bunch! I too like the shark, I scuba dive, and did get the chance to see a couple of hammerheads off of Maui a couple of years back, we were at 60ft and they were at 120, so quite a ways away, wish I could have been closer...


On mine I only have two. The high pressure out and the low pressure return. The power steering has high in and low out. The forte hydroboost has high in, high pass through, and low out. I used the high pressure pass through on the hydroboost to feed the power steering, and had to “T” the low pressure from hydroboost and power steering back to the low intake reservoir.

[Mike.Bray]

Glad you noticed! It’s a 12’ hammerhead replica. I caught an 11’7” hammerhead in Fort Lauderdale about 14 years ago. I said I wanted to mount it so the charter first mate pulled it into the boat with a rope. We took pictures sitting right next to it before pushing it out to sea. It was like dragging a wet cow out of the ocean. Now they don’t even let you pull them out anymore. They have all been replica mounts for a while. I paid 50% down but couldn’t afford to finish it or ship it, nor did I have a place to hang it until 10 years later. Then I built this shop and pulled the trigger.

The funny thing is most people that come into the shop don’t notice it. It’s just a little too high and with just stuff going on they miss it.

I knew there would be a cool story behind it. Thanks for sharing.

[FLPBFoot]

I’m debating wiring in a simple toggle switch behind the dash in series with the inertia ground switch as an easy fuel shut off. I know some put a red switch in the cab. I doubt I’ll ever formally race or drag this car so I’m not sure I need it. May make priming the oil and fluids easier.

I put two switches in. One in the fuel pump circuit and one in the 12V coil supply circuit. I mounted both switches on the left side of the fuse panel with the toggles hanging down. I use them for security mostly but at times will shut off the fuel pump to run the carb bowl empty for service. I put them in so when the toggle is facing forward the car is ready to run. Pulled back to the rear "counter measures are on".

[J R Jones]

Glad you noticed! It’s a 12’ hammerhead replica. I caught an 11’7” hammerhead in Fort Lauderdale about 14 years ago. I said I wanted to mount it so the charter first mate pulled it into the boat with a rope. We took pictures sitting right next to it before pushing it out to sea. It was like dragging a wet cow out of the ocean. Now they don’t even let you pull them out anymore. They have all been replica mounts for a while. I paid 50% down but couldn’t afford to finish it or ship it, nor did I have a place to hang it until 10 years later. Then I built this shop and pulled the trigger.

The funny thing is most people that come into the shop don’t notice it. It’s just a little too high and with just stuff going on they miss it.

I was USAF assigned near Panama City FL in the late sixtes. I surf-cast and it was always a surprise at the end of the line. I have seen guys get injured.
We had miles of Government beach.
One of the guys went for a shark with a weighted gaff and spoiled beef. He tied the line to his Jeep and almost regretted it. The Jeep got pulled to the surf but not in.
He eventually towed the shark to the sand, and thought if we buried it, it would rot, and he would salvage the jaw/teeth. After a couple of months we went digging but we could not find the remains. A tidal beach is always moving.
jim

[Highplainsdakota]

223848223849223850223851223852

[Highplainsdakota]

223853223854

[Highplainsdakota]

I've been busy wiring over the last two weeks. The Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 was pretty straight forward. I routed the wires for the injectors underneath the intake manifold to keep some of it hidden and added a second water temp port. I secured the EDU to the passenger foot box top, and wrapped all my wiring. I placed some fuel line insulation, and ran a 6 gauge wire for positive and negative posts through my firewall, fused at 80A. I installed a 6 pack of relays and a separate fuse box that is powered by my accessory power bank via relay. The two GPS units for my radar detector and speedhut spedo are going to be mounted to an L bracket off the front passenger 3/4" frame behind the headlight.

I wired a fuel pump shutoff switch and a E-stopp safety switch under the dash. The E-stopp parking brake cannot operate when the ignition is on, but this switch allows me to work on a running engine with the e-brake on and the transmission in neutral. Speaker wires from front to back were ran along with my front and rear radar arrays. My amp for the speakers required a 2 gauge positive and negative cable from the battery off a resettable fuse.

I was able to insulate the passenger foot box, install my Gas'N header on the passenger side and re-run the spark plugs. I also installed my new shorter and correct drive shaft. I had to loosen the engine mounts and raise the drivers side of the engine to level it with the frame. While I was doing that, I ended up raising the transmission by about 1/2" to line it up with the rear IRS. I had to buy these torque adaptors that are box ended 12 point wrenches that are 2" long with a 3/8" lug on the other side to torque my header down and install my drive shaft adaptor. They are as useful as they are adorable and I'm glad I bought a set of SAE and metrics. They work well for short wrenches as well. I installed a USB port in the rear cubby and ran a power wire for trunk courtesy lights in the trunk that are gravity activated. The purple wire that runs to the rear brakes was repurposed for rear back up light power, running through the reverse switch pigtail on the TKX transmission. Wires were wrapped in loom but I haven't secured them yet.

I adjusted my dash, cut the holes for the steering hub and gauges. It's not very typical but I can see them well and it will make room for my other switches when I get them. More to come on that. I installed my microprocessor for the blinker system and decided on a momentary toggle switch on the trans tunnel for the left and right blinkers. I spent the rest of the time applying dynomat extreme in the passenger side.

[Mike.Bray]

223849

Will you be able to reach the inertia switch to reset it when the body is on?

[Highplainsdakota]

I’m pretty sure I will be able to reach it from under the drivers side dash, but my dash is also removable. That shouldn’t trip often should it?

[Mike.Bray]

That shouldn’t trip often should it?

No, it shouldn't. But when it does you can be sure it will be at the most inappropriate time and place.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I’m pretty sure I will be able to reach it from under the drivers side dash, but my dash is also removable. That shouldn’t trip often should it?

Shouldn't. I put the one on my first car up under the dash on the 2x2 tube and over 17 years it never tripped, even after several "agricultural expeditions" when I slid off the track. It did function though...I tested it a few times by giving the chassis a good whack with a dead blow mallet.

Jeff

[Highplainsdakota]

Shouldn't. I put the one on my first car up under the dash on the 2x2 tube and over 17 years it never tripped, even after several "agricultural expeditions" when I slid off the track. It did function though...I tested it a few times by giving the chassis a good whack with a dead blow mallet.

Jeff

Yeah, kind of like the roll bar. I don't "plan" on using it...

[PMD24]

Dakota, can you share some more details on the 80 and 125A breakers (photo 4 in post 179). Curious on the reason for them and more info on brand so I can check them out. Also curious about the two studs through the firewall shown in photo 5. Is that just a means to get power through the firewall vs wire through a grommet?

I'm immersed in my electrical right now so I'm finding all of your work very interesting. Not doing anywhere near what you are, but the more I dig into it, the more stuff I tear open and remove, move, change, etc. So far I've opened up everything except the front harness! Looks like a mess but I'm labeling and keeping good notes.

Thanks,

Pat

[Highplainsdakota]

Dakota, can you share some more details on the 80 and 125A breakers (photo 4 in post 179). Curious on the reason for them and more info on brand so I can check them out. Also curious about the two studs through the firewall shown in photo 5. Is that just a means to get power through the firewall vs wire through a grommet?

I'm immersed in my electrical right now so I'm finding all of your work very interesting. Not doing anywhere near what you are, but the more I dig into it, the more stuff I tear open and remove, move, change, etc. So far I've opened up everything except the front harness! Looks like a mess but I'm labeling and keeping good notes.

Thanks,

Pat

Hi Pat,

The idea here is every wire should be protected with a fuse so a short circuit doesn't melt the wire and cause a fire. The fuse/breaker is sized to the cable gauge vs length of run. I'm adding some accessories to my build, and I wanted them well protected with fuses. I installed an extra fuse box and 6 bank relay panel. Some suggest any circuit over a few amps should go through a relay. That may be overkill but it avoids putting a lot of current through a switch. I did not install a heater, so I used the brown heater wire (which comes off the ACC feed panel) as a trigger for my first relay. That relay (when the car is in ACC or ON) then provides 30A power to my new fuse panel behind the dash. All those circuits then get powered off when the key is off. Several small circuits from that panel are fused again at the panel to protect those individual circuits/wires. Some circuit examples from that extra panel are my radar detector, courtesy lights, rear back up lights, vent fan and valve. The other 5 relays will likely be used for seat heaters, Wipers, and any other high power gadgetry I want to install.

The power for those 6 relays (and therefore the new fuse panel) as well as some other powered items like my E-Stopp parking brake and gravity switched courtesy lights in the trunk and hood need direct (always on) battery power. They come from a 6g Red cable directly from my battery through the firewall. I could have run them through a grommet, but I like to have a 12v+ and Ground terminal in the dash. The bulk head terminals work well for that. The 5' of 6 AWG cable can tolerate 80A so I purchased a resettable waterproof breaker. This should go as close to the battery as possible, because it is meant to protect the cable. The 125A breaker protects my 2 AWG cable that runs to my trunk for my 1000W amp for my sub and speakers. That probably only draws 80A. I'm protecting the cable in the event it gets damaged so it doesn't hurt my battery or start a fire.

One gadget I'm working on is a retractable front license plate using a linear actuator. I press a button on my dash, and a front license plate rotates out of the radiator hole in the front of the car. In my state I don't need a front plate if the car is registered as a car more than 40 years old. Problem is, a cop may still pull you over if they don't know the law or don't see the back plate style. At least when I park the car I can retract the plate and it doesn't look so bad.

I'll attach links for the breakers and bulkhead power studs.

[Highplainsdakota]

Breaker link on Amazon: https://a.co/d/2TKqGym

Bulkhead power link: https://a.co/d/4SFyLDc

[PMD24]

Dakota, thank you for all the detail. Very well thought out! I have to give all of this more thought, so I include any upgrades now. One thing I've gone back and forth on is a main disconnect. Wasn't planning on doing it for security, as many do. But it sure would be handy over the next several weeks of electrical work. I've got the electrical tore apart on my Polaris Ranger EV trying to find a 12V accessory problem and it has a very unfriendly setup for killing the power from the primary 48V banks. Every time I'm contorted in there to unplug the disconnect, I think about the car. Thanks for the links as well.

Pat

[Highplainsdakota]

Ok,

I just solved one of the things that frustrates me about the mk4. The right side of the drivers side foot box near the trans tunnel hits me right on the lateral lower leg about half way up. That 30 degree angle causes a pressure point right there. Although I don’t have my driver side foot box done or the driver side headers in place there seems to be plenty of room to bump this out. I ended up using my angle grinder to cut a slit high on that wall and straightened that angle outward. I removed some metal and re-riveted the connection near the trans tunnel up to the dash. I fabricated some aluminum angle to close the triangle on the bottom and it looks pretty good. I still have to close the triangle made at the top that’s open to the engine compartment. I think another angle of aluminum will do the trick. I’ve been closing the larger holes and gaps with JB weld or JB weld putty for a more secure and rigid, fix the smaller ones I filled with black silicone.

I’ll attach some pictures to show the progress. I debated doing this for a few months and finally tackled it.

224094224092224093224091224095

[Highplainsdakota]

224276224277224278

I fitted the Breeze automotive shroud to my radiator and fan using the hinged upper kit today. Seems to fit together well without too much drilling trouble. I opted for the rivnuts to secure the fan to the shroud as some have suggested. I have the breeze lower radiator hose system, but I’m a little unsure how it fits together. I might ask for a few pictures once I get my radiator installed on the chassis.

[Mike.Bray]

I have the breeze lower radiator hose system, but I’m a little unsure how it fits together. I might ask for a few pictures once I get my radiator installed on the chassis.

It's actually pretty simple. Breeze sells a special support that attaches under the frame to hold the tube, be sure and get it.

224298

224299

[PMD24]

224276224277224278

I fitted the Breeze automotive shroud to my radiator and fan using the hinged upper kit today. Seems to fit together well without too much drilling trouble. I opted for the rivnuts to secure the fan to the shroud as some have suggested. I have the breeze lower radiator hose system, but I’m a little unsure how it fits together. I might ask for a few pictures once I get my radiator installed on the chassis.

I used the Breeze kit as well, along with the support bracket that Mike mentioned. I didn't like the angle of the solid tube or the connection at the radiator with the elbow supplied with the kit. I bought a hose with an elbow that had a slightly larger radius and I cut it for more length on one end. I also added a 1/4" rubber spacer under the frame bracket for a better fit there. The end result satisfied my OCD. The tube is closer to running parallel with the frame and the hose connection at the radiator isn't angled. Detail in my thread at post 178, and some radiator stuff a few posts ahead of that.

[Highplainsdakota]

224501

I have the Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 on my ford small block 363. The 4150 throttle body has a few vacuum ports that are capped. My Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator requires manifold vacuum. The nipple on the regulator is about 1/8”. The nipple on the passenger side of the throttle body just next to the throttle position sensor is about the same or a little bigger. I have read this might be a ported vacuum meaning it is only under vacuum when the throttle is open? The larger vacuum nipples on the front and back of the throttle body are labeled as full time vacuum, but also “not for fuel”. Do they mean not for fuel regulator vacuum or don’t hook up your fuel line to throttle body there?

Also, using an adaptor from a 1/8” to 3/8” vacuum hose seems a little weird. Any thoughts? I have included the picture of the throttle body with the center circled port next to the throttle body and the larger ports on the sides with arrows.

[Mike.Bray]

Are you sure you need vacuum to your fuel pressure regulator? Usually that's for boosted applications, for NA applications it's left open to atmosphere.

[Highplainsdakota]

The instructions say to set fuel pressure with the regulator vacuum disconnected and open to atmosphere, with the vacuum ports on the manifold/throttle body plugged. Once set, attach to full manifold vacuum. From what I understand, it’s more critical for boosted applications and open to atmosphere for throttle body injectors or carburetors. I’ve been trying to call edelbrock tech support but can’t get an answer.

[Highplainsdakota]

224545224546224547224548

I’ve probably gone through 3 or 4 sets of battery terminals but I think I have something that I like. I used a blade type switch on my negative terminal so I could finally connect all my power wires and secure them with the battery still disconnected. Pictures attached.

I temporarily installed the radiator, but I don’t have a #7 drill bit, so I ordered one. I’ve been thinking about buying a very large drill bit holder, and adding good quality carbide bits to them as I need them. Maybe make each one two deep for a sharp spare so I can cannibalize extra sets. I have a drill press and when I need a good hole I could reach for my best bits. Especially the numbered bits. This way when I break, melt, or lose a few I can replace them individually. It’s a shop frustration I’d like to solve. Anyone want to share their drill bit system?

[PMD24]

I have a high quality set 1/32" through 1/2" in 1/32" increments. My recall is that one came from Drill Bit City, but there are many other sources for good bits as well.

Another set that I've had for maybe 20 years (don't recall brand) is essentially the same as the Harbor Freight 115 pc Cobalt set.
https://www.harborfreight.com/cobalt-fractional-number-and-letter-index-drill-bit-set-115-piece-59816.html
The set contains fractional, number, and letter drills and I've never had a situation where I didn't have the size I needed, other than when greater than 1/2". In those cases, I'm typically using step bits, or hole saws.

Really like the idea of the blade switch. Just yesterday I posted about not caring about a disconnect switch (on the positive side) other than for convenience during the build. Blade switch could be the ticket, and I'll remove it when done.

[Highplainsdakota]

Thanks for the info. All the rivnuts I'm installing require unusual fractional sizes and some through stainless steel. Time to get what I need and be done with it!

I went around on the blade switch as well and didn't buy one until I saw how much room I had. Some people put the disconnect on the positive side, but the size of the blade switch made me nervous about grounding it. I think I already mentioned this but I bought some liquid electrical tape to paint the cross member near my positive terminal for wrench slips. I'm not sure I'll leave the blade terminal in place at the end. The blade is really tight so it won't go flopping around.

[cv2065]

That's a lot of wiring at the battery terminal. I'm not sure what all you have there, but are there any options for using a distribution block at the firewall or behind the dash? The 4" tubes are also great for mounting fuses. You can maintain the correct distance from the terminal and still have everything visibly look tidy.

[Highplainsdakota]

The power cables are:
1: roadster main fuse block/ starter
2: accessory 6 gauge to a dash distribution block
3: Edelbrock ECU power
4: Amp power, 2 AWG
5: charging attachment quick disconnect.

They all need to come directly from the terminals so I don’t have much choice. Better for clean power.

[Highplainsdakota]

Just got back from vacation to a bunch of packages for the roadster! I received my SS tube stock from online metals for the front rubber grommets with the correct wall thickness. A full set of 1/64 HSS drill bits to help with those less common size rivnut holes. Also, a full set of cobalt 135 split points for the SS metals, letters, wire size, and 1/64" increments. I bought two welding blankets for grinding and welding around my wheels and engine to keep things safe and clean. ATF fluid for my tremec TXK for break in. Steel reinforced exhaust hangers for frame to ball valve support. Engine break in oil for the first 500 miles.

Still waiting on my Boig motorsports upper cool tube, Gas N clamps for my side pipes, and my aluminum switches for my dash. One thing I have yet to figure out is my oil capacity. I've searched a few threads on here and looked at Champs website for my oil pan. I have the CP302LTRR, road race pan for the SBF 302. The website states "Capacity: 8 quarts with filter." My dipstick has no markings so I have to mark it myself. My engine has been on the dyno by Forte so it has oil in it. Unfortunately with the engine damage during shipping, some of the oil leaked out of the engine so I don't have a starting point. I can't start the engine without the proper oil level so I can't warm it up to drain it.

So my plan is to level the car, pull the oil drain plug and let it sit for a few days to get as much out as possible, change the oil filter, and simply add 8 quarts oil, ignoring the small amount of oil in the engine plumbing and the new (unfilled) oil filter. Is this right? Is this what Champ means by 8 quarts with filter? Thanks

[Highplainsdakota]

I forgot to mention, crank the engine for 20 seconds to fill the oil filter, let the oil settle, then permanently mark the dipstick.

[Highplainsdakota]

I talked to Champ oil pans and they recommend simply filling to the very top of their oil fill plug after oil is circulated in the engine and filter. Once I get to a steady state I’ll mark the dipstick.

One another note, I’ve come across a few threads about the bell housing hanging below the frame rails. Mine certainly does. It’s a QuickTime steel bell housing from forte and hangs maybe 1.5” low. The oil pan is above the frame. Some recommend cutting the bellhousing but this would remove the entire bottom bolt and half the two flanking bolts. It seems like a lot to remove and it would look terrible. Should I weld a shallow skid plate in front of the bellhousing to take the hit? Do most people leave this alone? Thanks

225120225121

[Mike.Bray]

Most people cut it and that's what I would do. That bellhousing is extreme overkill for these cars, losing a little off the bottom isn't going to have any negative effect.

It seems like a lot to remove and it would look terrible This reminds me of the time I bought my wife a bunch of panties that were all the same color. She complained people would think she never changed her panties. What people are going to see???

[Highplainsdakota]

I suppose if people are looking down at the undercarriage of my car I’m probably in worse shape than my bellhousing…

[Highplainsdakota]

Finished putting the radiator on and hooking everything up. I’ve continued to work on wiring. I tried to learn how the EStopp button was wired and ended up frying the circuit board. They guy at estopp wa great and gave me a discount on a new module. Great customer service for something that I ruined. I guess I’ll stick with his button.

I received my two switch panels from Watson’s garage. I’m happy with the look although they are smaller than I anticipated. The measurements were on the website but you never really know until they arrive. They were expensive. One realization was the low amperage rating of the switches. I can only use <1A for the push buttons and maybe 3-5 A for the toggles. Looks like I need another bank of relays. I’m making an aluminum panel to mount the switches so I can install them cleanly in my dash. It also gives me some hope I can remove this panel for access or repair without removing my dash.

Below are some updated pictures.

[Highplainsdakota]

226181226183226184

[PMD24]

Dakota, that engine looks great!! I did that Boig tube as well. Expensive! But sure looks good. If you haven't filled your radiator yet, try some of the Gates Powergrip clamps. I put them on the upper only but now wish I had put them on the lower as well. Great look and stellar reviews in terms of how they perform.

Pat

[Highplainsdakota]

226415226416226417226418

Here are a few pictures of my dash switches. Spent some quality time soldering the wires into a usable system. After frying my EStopp circuit board, I was more careful with the other wires and switches. The horn didnt work because it was a ground trigger instead of a 12V+ trigger. I wanted to reuse the relay in the fuse panel so I cut the wires at the relay and switched them. I haven’t wired up my windshield wiper switch yet so that’s coming up.

My clutch woes have returned. I had a small leak at the 1/8” NPT/3AN fitting to the wilwood master cylinder. Tried Permatex sealant and more torque but it continued to leak. Since I seem to have 3 extra wilwood MCs lying around I installed a new one and used thread sealant before I filled it with DOT 3. It didn’t leak but I couldn’t get enough clutch fork movement with Forte’s slave system. I finally realized I switched a 0.81” MC with a 0.75”. The pedal was way too soft and needed a ton of throw and still came up short. I ordered and just received a 0.94” and 1” MC. I’m going to try the 0.94” to get a shorter pedal throw.

I do need guidance with one thing. I understand I need 1” to 1 1/4” rod movement at the slave/fork to disengage the clutch. I can’t go beyond 1 1/4” due to the slave cylinder limitations. I need about 1/8” play at the fork at rest. How much slave rod movement before I can turn the rear wheels in 1st gear, and how much movement before I don’t hear the clutch rubbing? Just trying to set it up right. Finally, where do I put the clutch stop so I don’t push the rod entirely out of the slave cylinder? Just a block at the back of the pedal?

I’ve decided to abandon the wood veneer dash. Im worried the finish will look bad and nothing else in my roadster will match it. I’m going with a Pecan colored vinyl leather from Kovi for the dash, under dash panel, trans tunnel, door cards and seats. I ordered some square weave dark brown carpet as well but I haven’t attempted that yet.

I finally received my hangers and hardware from Gas N. They forgot to add it to the initial order. Of course they are super pleasant to deal with, just a miss on shipping so no big deal. It arrived just in time for my drivers side header install. I secured the drivers side bung and passenger O2 sensor and dressed the wires into the engine bay.

[Highplainsdakota]

226464

Question for the group. I have hooked up my ECU power to the Pro Flo 4 using the orange coil wire. I have this blue ign wire coming off my keyed switch. What is this used for? I just have it terminated and covered for now.

[PMD24]

I'm out of town so I can't look at the rest of the wiring schematic, but my recall is that wire goes to through your clutch pedal safety switch and then to the starter solenoid for start.

Pat

[Highplainsdakota]

Pat,

There is a second blue wire on the same terminal off the ignition key switch that indeed does that. This comes off the same terminal and I don’t know what else would need ignition power. I’m gearing up for first start soon so I was double checking obvious issues. Thanks

[PMD24]

I didn't use the other wire (EFI crank), but I have the Sniper 2. Don't know if the Proflow uses it.

These two wires are only hot for start, so they aren't considered ignition power which is hot in the run and start position.

Pat

[cv2065]

For me, the clutch adjustment is visual. You need to be able to see the slave cylinder move as it actuates which allows you to judge the throw of the pedal and stop placement if needed. When my slave cylinder was flush with the housing, it fully disengaged the clutch. I then set my pedal throw and turned out I didn’t need a stop. With wheels off the ground I then tested clutch engagement.

This is of course after your rod is cut to the right length and play is set correctly. I think I documented that in my build thread, but every setup will be slightly different.

[Highplainsdakota]

Hey guys,

I had a long day at the shop yesterday and a big night. I went for a first start. Had a few issues to fix before we got there but we were able to get it done. Great milestone to achieve. I will post the video.

It did generate a few new problems so I'll have more questions here in a bid.


https://youtube.com/shorts/BgV79rnwY_k?feature=share

[Highplainsdakota]

So on the first "attempt", we did a fuel and gauge check. The speedhut gauges don't read while cranking so we couldn't see any oil pressure. After adding 5 gal of fuel and recalibrating, everything seemed to be online. Next we tested the fuel pump. It sounded like it was pushing fuel but zero reading on the pressure regulator. We gave it a few attempts and started to trace the lines. My buddy figured out I switched the lines in the engine bay and plumbed it backwards with the pump pushing against the regulator outflow. A switch of the lines at the tank and that was fixed.

Second attempt: We had cranked the engine over without the fuel to get the oil and coolant moving, but when we attempted a start it didn't turn over. Confused us for a second but I had the clutch pushed in on the start attempt which I had not previously done. Turns out I wired the clutch safety switch to the wrong terminals. A quick change and we were in business.

Third attempt it fired right up. Loud without sidepipes of course. Oil pressure was good. Gauges worked. It was a great feeling.

Now for the new issues. My buddy tried to start it after we rechecked the fluids. When he attempted to turn the steering wheel there was some wild feedback pressure from the power steering. I had read in a thread that the low pressure out from the brake booster when "T" with the low pressure from the power steering rack can overpressure the system. Is this what I'm looking at? I managed to capture this on video.

https://youtu.be/s_TL1KJOGtk

[Pete&Scott]

Looks like you have the power steering lines are reversed. The top port is the return, and the bottom is the pressure line. Jeff Kliener posted a pic in this thread on post #2

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?48757-Power-steering-rack-quot-port-quot-question

In another post, I can't find Jeff mentioned that if the power steering lines are connected backwards, it will cause the wheel to make a violent turn to full lock.

[Highplainsdakota]

226807226808

I’ve been working on this under dash design for some of my switches. I used the 1/16” foam from McMaster Carr along with vinyl from Kovi fabrics. I’m pleased so far.

[Highplainsdakota]

226888

I was able to install one of my switch panels once I found 3-48 size nuts. No hardware store in my area had them but I have more on order so I don’t run out.

I switched my power steering lines today. Couldn’t prevent an oily mess but that’s how it goes. I started the engine and the steering seems to work fine. The brakes are strange though. I have Fortes hydroboost system. They seem to engage fine but they don’t spring back out. I wonder if too much hydraulic pressure would do that. Im going to have to dig through the forums a bit.

[Highplainsdakota]

227039227040

Here’s my first attempt at a 3d printed gated shifter, as well as my first attempt at a 3d printed anything! It looks like the head of a star wars droid but I’ll work on it.

[Highplainsdakota]

227067

New design. I’m getting some impingement from the TKX shifter base. The throws are a little two long. If this works well I may just wrap this in vinyl rather than having someone cnc a billet part.

[Highplainsdakota]

227076

I’ve been drawing on sketchup all day and I think I will simplify the gated shifter. I can create some good designs but they don’t have a good way to connect to the trans tunnel or easily take a vinyl wrap. I think I’ll make a steel cylinder cage and slip a 3d printed cylinder over the top that is wrapped in vinyl. Then I can cap it off with either a steel or aluminum gate.

[Mike.Bray]

If the shape doesn't lend itself to wrapping you can look at hydrodip. I recently had this dash panel for my 68 Camaro hydrodipped to look like CF. It would have been impossible to wrap.

227078

227079

[Highplainsdakota]

That's not a bad idea! My issue is everything is brushed aluminum or vinyl. I don't have a lot of black, CF, or other material in my car. Doesn't mean it can't be an accent piece. Thanks

[Highplainsdakota]

Well,

I fried a second ESTOPP controller box today. I had it all worked out through a relay from my STSP latching switch. Came out today to test things again and it didn't work. Everything seems to be hooked up correctly, actuator still works, button and relay are firing. Must be the control box. I'm leaning towards just using two relays to create the reverse polarity system via my STSP switch. I won't have the blue safety switch wire, but how many times have you accidentally turned on your ebrake anyway?

[Highplainsdakota]

227131227132227133227134

Hey guys,
I put the body back on the car today to check fitting. I’m making decisions based on the body’s position so I want to make sure I’m right. I read a thread about the door striker tabs being 1/8” behind the body. I took the pictures above. The body seems farther ahead on one side vs the other in this area. Nothing in the engine bay seems very square so not sure what to base this on. I have done the 5/8” rubber on the front top 3/4” tube, I have trimmed the rear trunk floor.

What do I use to center the body left and right? The shock mounts? Do I then “adjust” the outriggers to match the front body quick jack holes? Is it only the rear vertical trunk walls and rear trunk floor keeping the body rearward? Any help on this is appreciated.

[Mike.Bray]

That's not a bad idea! My issue is everything is brushed aluminum or vinyl. I don't have a lot of black, CF, or other material in my car. Doesn't mean it can't be an accent piece. Thanks

With hydrodip you can do just about anything you like, colors, graphics, even pictures. Let your imagination run wild.

[cv2065]

If the shape doesn't lend itself to wrapping you can look at hydrodip. I recently had this dash panel for my 68 Camaro hydrodipped to look like CF. It would have been impossible to wrap.

227078

227079

Man that looks great Mike. Very 'production' looking. I used to have a 67.

[cv2065]

What do I use to center the body left and right? The shock mounts? Do I then “adjust” the outriggers to match the front body quick jack holes?

Yes and Yes. Instead of banging with a dead blow, I used a ratchet strap on my outriggers to move them a bit.

Good thread for you: https://www.ffcars.com/threads/centering-body.644219/

[Highplainsdakota]

I like the ratchet strap idea. I already have the radiator in and plumbed so I don't really want to be hammering those outriggers around. I guess my order would be this:

1: Body back on, without rear trunk bulb seal to check clearances and allow for movement (I have already trimmed the rear lower trunk aluminum)
2: Rotate the body correctly using front and rear shock mounts, and door strike tabs.
3: Align strike tabs 3/16-1/4" behind body (starting with equal, and shifting body front or rear form there)
3: Check correct body lift/vertical alignment with front 3/4" tube rubber bumpers (I already have 5/8" installed which seem to be close)
4: Measure / adjust outriggers left to right in order to align with holes. (I'm waiting to mill out the body for the rubber quick jack grommets until the body is aligned)
5: Trim any aluminum rear panels that are too close to the body causing deflection. Then reattach bulb seal.

I'm anxious to start working on some body fittings like roll bar, front and rear cab clearances, windshield, etc, so I'd like to close the chapter on the body alignment. Might be a week or two until I get to it.

Still working on the shifter. My local shop tig welded the SS shifter handle to my TKX attachment I milled but it was off center, so it dipped left and rose up to the right making the handle not fit the gate. I cut it off, and had him reweld it so it was more centered. Hopefully I have this gate pretty close to aligned so I can work on the real thing.

Lots of small tasks today. I reran my low pressure power steering so the "T" fitting fed the brakes straight into the reservoir with the PS coming in at the T. Maybe this will soften up my brakes a bit. Made a second mess of power steering fluid on my floor...

Horns are in place, passenger side vent is attached to the blower, rewired my E-brake LED light and safety switch. Cut my SS quick jack tubes to 5 1/2" and squared them. Still need to polish. I installed my front radar array under my radiator. It cannot see through any metal, but fiberglass is fine. It sits right where the oil radiator would go. I still may cover it with clear moldable plastic so it doesn't take any rock impacts. I found some 4-40 nuts at my local ACE hardware for my dash switch brackets so I can finish that part. I received my Nomex honeycomb radiator protector and have begun painting it black. Z channels are on the way from amazon. The more I consider this, I may abandon this method for a thin SS hexagonal expanded metal sheet. I'm really looking forward to my actuated front license plate and the nomex costs me 3/4" of clearance to the radiator for the license plate to flip down. I need to fabricate something up before I make a final decision.

Still waiting on relays, reverse polarity switches, and more power steering fluid...

[JayOH]

227076

I’ve been drawing on sketchup all day and I think I will simplify the gated shifter. I can create some good designs but they don’t have a good way to connect to the trans tunnel or easily take a vinyl wrap. I think I’ll make a steel cylinder cage and slip a 3d printed cylinder over the top that is wrapped in vinyl. Then I can cap it off with either a steel or aluminum gate.

Perhaps I missed it in an earlier post, but how are you handling the relative motion between the transmission and the transmission tunnel top. Seems like you are mounting the gate to the transmission so gate moves with transmission. Are you then going to oversize the face of the gate to cover up the transmission tunnel hole so that any relative motion between the two never exposes the hole in the transmission tunnel top? Will that motion ever create vertical displacement that might stress the gate face or tunnel top? Just wondering how you are planning to address these complexities as I started researching this path but ended up discouraged.

[cv2065]

I fit everything with bulb seal on, especially the dash. You can always replace it if you tear it up for final body install. I didn't have to trim much of anything in regard to panels.

[Highplainsdakota]

This is what I have settled on.

I have welded 1.5" x 1/4" bar stock steel around the top of my transmission tunnel for support. The vinyl covered transmission tunnel cover will be mounted on top of that. Some of the fixation will be from two grab handles through the T tunnel cover into the steel bars as well as the gated shifter. I had 3.5" diameter tube stock steel that had a really thick wall (maybe 1/2"?) cut into 1/4" thick rings like giant washers. I will weld two of these rings about 70mm apart using 4 small steel bars like a cage. This cage will fit over the hole in my transmission tunnel cover and bolt down to the steel bar frame.

I will 3D print a cylinder, vinyl wrap it, and slide it over the steel cage. Then I will have a stainless steel cap with the shifter gates milled into it bolted on top to the top washer. To answer your question, the gate is basically bolted to my transmission tunnel. There is some play in the transmission itself, my shifter stick is 5/16" stainless steel bar that has a small amount of flex to it, the vinyl covering on the T Tunnel cover is sandwiched between the bottom steel cage and the tunnel support steel, and I'm sure my steel cage has a bit of flex as well. All this play in the system should allow things to move enough to avoid problems.

[Highplainsdakota]

227443227444227445227446227447

[Highplainsdakota]

227448227449227450227451

I was also able to get the hard top on the body for the first time this weekend. Looks great. Fabricating my roll bar to fit underneath it will be a bit of a challenge though. I'm also still looking to find someone willing to take on bodywork and paint eventually. It would be great to send the car off in 2027 after a year of driving.

[Highplainsdakota]

227452227453

I also finished wiring the vent valve and fans. They flow pretty well and I don't think I'll mind the noise when the engine is running.

[Highplainsdakota]

227833227834

I finished my dash. Also Cobra Herb send me my door panels and they look great. It's nice to have more of these upholstery / design issues squared away.

[Highplainsdakota]

OK,

I'm starting to fit the side pipes just to see where I'm at. To nobody's surprise the driver's side is quite a bit closer to the front wheel than the passenger's side. I ordered four wedges from Breeze and my headers and pipes are from Georgie at Gas'N.

When I tilt the ball connector so the edge of the flange is 6 1/4" from the back of the front tire on each side, I can use 4 wedges to get the connection square again. It's an equal amount of tilt for each side, just the opposite direction. This should leave the pipes at the same offset as well. Is this a reasonable idea? I don't mind the body opening for the side pipes to be a little larger as my paint color will be dark green. I took some pictures of the tilt on each side. As they sit, they are pretty equal with 4 wedges each.

Also, I've only found 4 into 4 gaskets for these wedges, but I was thinking about just using gasket maker once I final assemble them. I was going to apply a liberal coating of gasket maker on the ball connectors as well once I put the side pipes on the last time.

228190228191

[Highplainsdakota]

I need some help with the power steering reservoir set up.

I use Forte's hydroboost with power steering. I have the issue of a stiff brake pedal with slow return. I've read many forum posts about hydroboost issues, and I hope/believe it has to do with my plumbing. I worked pretty hard to bleed the MC and brakes sufficiently, but they are on the car now and I'm not very interested in removing the MC or hydroboost unless I have to.

I was using the "T" between my power steering and hydroboost with the 90 towards the reservoir. Clearly a mistake. I switched the T with the 90 towards the hydroboost, but I recently read this still pushes the power steering return 50% towards the return hydroboost line. I've spilled more power steering oil on the floor than I've put in my car at this point, so I want to do this one more time only.

I'm purchased a bulkhead fitting and was intending to drill into my power steering reservoir to place the second fitting. I'm also considering a separate remote reservoir with two fittings. While I have the system apart, I will likely place a PS fluid filter in the PS return line and I'm even considering a cooler. Here are the questions.

If I purchase a remote reservoir with two inlets for PS and HB, can I simply rout the larger return hose to the other PS reservoir on my engine pump?

Are those inline PS fluid coolers worth it, or should I use a standard PS cooler mounted in front (or none at all?) I will not be racing this car, but we all have wide sticky tires and I may drive it several hours at a time.

Any recommendations on a remote machined aluminum finish reservoir with two inlets? Any special items I need to connect the outlet directly to my pump and remove my factory reservoir?

Thanks again guys. Just want to button this up so I can move on.

[Highplainsdakota]

228384228385228386

Finally installed my dash.

[Highplainsdakota]

228412

My gated shifter is finished! I have some assembly and polishing to do but it turned out really well. Now I just have to get the height right to match my pattern. The plate is made from 1/4" stainless steel so it should shine up nicely. I still have to knock back the hard edges and radius the gates or it will scratch my shifter stick.

[JayOH]

228412

My gated shifter is finished! I have some assembly and polishing to do but it turned out really well. Now I just have to get the height right to match my pattern. The plate is made from 1/4" stainless steel so it should shine up nicely. I still have to knock back the hard edges and radius the gates or it will scratch my shifter stick.

I reread your response to my gated shifter question on the previous page of this build thread and I still think you may be missing my concern. To try again, my main concern when previously researching a gated shifter is that when the engine is under load while accelerating/decelerating, it is going to rock a little about the rubber engine mounts. This rocking is going to lead to linear shifting of things directly bolted to the power train. This is the reason you have to leave the exhaust cutouts oversized so the pipes don’t contact the body under all driving conditions. Same thing is going to happen with the shifter stick poking up through your trans tunnel mounted gate. My concern is that a little rotation of the engine is going to lead to some bigger displacement of the shifter stick and could possibly lead to it hitting the sides of your gate cutouts as it’s mounted to the chassis and not the powertrain. I agree that everything works in the engine off static state, my concern is engine on. I think your fix would be to widen the gate paths until contact is eliminated under engine load but the pattern you are left with may not be as aesthetically pleasing as currently produced. Apologies for posting again on the same subject just trying to help if you misunderstood my original question and if you have already thought of all this and accounted for it then I’m just not understanding the description of your solution and that’s fine too.

[Highplainsdakota]

Thanks, no problem for restating. I’m sure I’m not thinking of everything but the engine shifting under load I am aware of. I just don’t know how much. The reason I’m not as worried about this is because of the play in the system. First example, when shifted into 1st gear, I have about 0.5-1 centimeter of left/right play while in gear. Although there is also some engine lift, I believe it to be negligible at the shifter or at least not enough to push it out of gear.

Secondly, even though my gate tower will be bolted to the frame, it will be bolted over two layers of vinyl and foam giving it some play. I’m getting close to my first go kart session and I hope to have the gate on for that.