Florida Registration attempt - Round 1

[MB750]

Even though my car is still in go-kart, I've got a few extra bucks lying around and wanted to get the registration out of the way. Since the Replica process according to the DMV form TL-48 doesn't require a physical inspection, I decided to try to register it today. Since the hurricane just ripped thru I figured the DMV would be pretty light today.

I was right, I didn't even sit down before they called my number. I came prepared. I brought a printout of TL-48 with a few select locations highlighted, printouts of the NHTSA and Sunbiz registrations for Factory Five, my insurance, DMV form 82040-MV (with notarization), the MSO, and a blank check for payment. The lady I got was having trouble so she corresponded a LOT with someone in a cubicle behind her.

After a few questions back and forth, she said she'd need a weight slip. I didn't argue, so I'll figure that out somehow. They also had an issue finding Factory Five in their list of manufacturers. That's where the printouts from NHTSA and Sunbiz came in handy. The cubicle lady scanned all the documents I brought with me and said they'd have to talk to Tallahassee to see how to handle this. She then took down my name and number and said I'd get a call next week. Tallahassee got smoked last night so they're closed today. I need the weight slip anyway so I'm stalled for now.

I kinda dug my heels in about the "Replica Manufacturer" thing and NEVER said the words "Kit Car". One time she asked me if it was a complete car, so I said I had to source an engine, transmission, and axle. She was going over the invoice from FFR so I thought being honest was the best policy there. And I clarified I already owned those items (taxes paid on those items).

Depending on how this goes, FFR might officially be put in the DMV system as a replica car manufacturer. I'll keep this updated as things develop.

Also, anybody have any ideas how to get a weight slip for a car that runs but doesn't have the body installed? I know I could trailer it to a scale, but I could also use my wife's car, or my neighbors red BRZ, or 5 motorcycles, etc... Nothing on the weight slip shows proof of what's being weighed.

[cv2065]

When I did mine I had to have an official weight slip from a scale. I also had to bring the car to the DMV for them just to verify that I actually had the car. Not much, if any, of an inspection at all. Took 20 minutes. Mine was finished and driving so not a big deal.

I think the key is to say that the car was already professionally assembled when purchased and that you are simply adding the engine and trans. That's how BD gets around it. The 'inspector' at the DMV kept asking me multiple times if I had assembled the car. I think she was trying to help me but I was too honest (and proud) to say that I did it. Mine was ultimately registered as Assembled from Parts. LOL

[MB750]

That's the angle I'm trying to play. My "excuse" for not bringing it if they asked would be that it's at the painters, and I didn't see anything in TL-48 that required an inspection, so I didn't think I'd need to.

If I'm required to bring it in for inspection, I could trailer it in go-kart. But more than likely I'd just stop trying and just register it when it's done.

I'm a little more worried why FFR isn't in the FL DMV system. That should happen regardless.

[Chris30559]

That's the angle I'm trying to play. My "excuse" for not bringing it if they asked would be that it's at the painters, and I didn't see anything in TL-48 that required an inspection, so I didn't think I'd need to.

If I'm required to bring it in for inspection, I could trailer it in go-kart. But more than likely I'd just stop trying and just register it when it's done.

I'm a little more worried why FFR isn't in the FL DMV system. That should happen regardless.

Have you made any progress with this. I am just about to start the registration process. However I was planning on using the TL-41 procedure which is "assembled from a kit". Is there a reason why you didn't start with that one? It's my understanding that the TL-48 would be impossible since FFR is not in the proper database on the DMV system. From what I've gathered on the forums anyway ..

[Pizzman76]

I wouldn't expect to see FFR in any DMV database since they are not a "Vehicle Manufacturer" but rather an engineering company that procures or produces all the components necessary to build a car. Vehicle manufacturers are forced to meet current federal and state regulations as well as emission standards.

[maclonchas]

Matt,
Any update from DMV yet? Just curious.

Thanks

Bill

[MB750]

Have you made any progress with this. I am just about to start the registration process. However I was planning on using the TL-41 procedure which is "assembled from a kit". Is there a reason why you didn't start with that one? It's my understanding that the TL-48 would be impossible since FFR is not in the proper database on the DMV system. From what I've gathered on the forums anyway ..

Thanks for keeping me accountable. I forgot about this thread, mostly due to the outcome of my DMV visit.

I got a call back from them the following Tuesday. Even though FFR is listed in NHTSA (https://vpic.nhtsa.dot.gov/mid/manufacturer/details/21481) as a "Replica Vehicle Manufacturer, and SunBiz (https://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail?inquirytype=ZipCode&directionType=Initial&searchNameOrder=FACTORYFIVERACING%20F230000013290&aggregateId=forp-f23000001329-e942d153-6d7e-445c-be35-182d40f2c6ea&searchTerm=02571&listNameOrder=AFFILIATEDPROFESSIONALSERVICES%20M21 0000011170), they still told me I'd need to go to the central DMV location for an inspection. Since the car isn't roadworthy yet I just put all the paperwork back in my fire safe and focused my energy back on the build.

As of right now I've got the body on and I'm maybe a couple long weekends away from having it on the road if I hurry. But I'm not in a hurry, so my goal is roadworthy by spring, then I can go get a weight slip and do the inspection.

[MB750]

I wouldn't expect to see FFR in any DMV database since they are not a "Vehicle Manufacturer" but rather an engineering company that procures or produces all the components necessary to build a car. Vehicle manufacturers are forced to meet current federal and state regulations as well as emission standards.

But they are, see my link above. For some reason FL doesn't recognize them as a manufacturer in their database, so that's why everyone seems to be forced to go the "Assembled from Parts" route on the title.

I wanted Replica status for the antique plate registration mostly, but it's not necessary. And if I ever moved to another state vehicles that old tend to evade many of the modern requirements (like emissions testing in CA, or bumpers in NY, etc...).

[Kbl7td]

Not sure if I ever updated my thread or another one. But my mouth got the best of me. I ended up registering in Montana. 1965 Replica.

No way in hell I was doing aspt with Florida. They refused anything but 2024 for year.

Saved in taxes as well. The whole process was maybe 1 month, plates to title.

[Chris30559]

Not sure if I ever updated my thread or another one. But my mouth got the best of me. I ended up registering in Montana. 1965 Replica.

No way in hell I was doing aspt with Florida. They refused anything but 2024 for year.

Saved in taxes as well. The whole process was maybe 1 month, plates to title.

How did you go about registering it there? Do you have a residence there also? Or is there a sneaky procedure us Floridians can do to accomplish that.

[Chris30559]

But they are, see my link above. For some reason FL doesn't recognize them as a manufacturer in their database, so that's why everyone seems to be forced to go the "Assembled from Parts" route on the title.

I wanted Replica status for the antique plate registration mostly, but it's not necessary. And if I ever moved to another state vehicles that old tend to evade many of the modern requirements (like emissions testing in CA, or bumpers in NY, etc...).

I also want the antique plate, which is why I was looking at the TL-41 procedure. According to the special instructions section they will title it as the year the kit car resembles if older than 25yrs which these are obviously, and it says they will put the actual year it was assembled in the comments section of the title wherever that is...of course I haven't done this yet and am just trying to get my ducks in a row before I go down to see them. If I am missing something let me know.

[Kbl7td]

The company will create a Montana LLC in which owns the car. Perfectly legal. And especially less noticeable in Florida, the transient capital.

[Blitzboy54]

How did you go about registering it there? Do you have a residence there also? Or is there a sneaky procedure us Floridians can do to accomplish that.

You don’t need one. That why you often see super cars with MT plates. There are company’s that will set you up with an LLC. The car gets registered against that. I considered it at one point. Where I see value is if you were worried about some sort of inspection. You could register it in MT for a year then transfer your plates perhaps.

It’s a popular move because there isn’t any sales tax in MT.

[MB750]

Not sure if I ever updated my thread or another one. But my mouth got the best of me. I ended up registering in Montana. 1965 Replica.

No way in hell I was doing aspt with Florida. They refused anything but 2024 for year.

Saved in taxes as well. The whole process was maybe 1 month, plates to title.

I looked into that route but they said the title would reflect the year it's registered (2024), not the replica year. What outfit did you go with to create the LLC? There's a few of them out there.

[Kbl7td]

I used 1 dollar Montana. Easy process maybe 1 month. 1965 year. American collectors insurance. I didn’t care about the tax but yes that’s an obvious benefit. The biggest thing was the year for me. After 1 year or so I’ll “gift” the car to my wife. Yes, all of this is legal.

[MB750]

I used 1 dollar Montana. Easy process maybe 1 month. 1965 year. American collectors insurance. I didn’t care about the tax but yes that’s an obvious benefit. The biggest thing was the year for me. After 1 year or so I’ll “gift” the car to my wife. Yes, all of this is legal.

Thanks for confirming.

Title transfer was another thing I was concerned about. The title comes branded with the name of the LLC, which technically you do own, but I'd rather the title be in my name. If I were to ever transfer the title to FL just like any other vehicle when moving to the state, I'd be curious how that works.

You seem to have a loophole (gift to wife = no tax), but what if there's no wife to transfer to and I just want a FL title in my name?

I also have to wonder how the FLDMV would handle having Factory Five Racing in the manufacturer/brand section of the title when they don't officially recognize them as an auto manufacturer, per my experience anyway. You'd clearly be bringing a valid title in from MO, and a title transfer is easy business, but it makes me wonder how those mirror-foggers at the DMV would handle it.

[FLPBFoot]

I also have to wonder how the FLDMV would handle having Factory Five Racing in the manufacturer/brand section of the title when they don't officially recognize them as an auto manufacturer, per my experience anyway. You'd clearly be bringing a valid title in from MO, and a title transfer is easy business, but it makes me wonder how those mirror-foggers at the DMV would handle it.

4 years ago I transferred my title from IL to FL. Title in IL was listed as 1965 Factory Five Roadster. FL would not recognize FFR so I ended up with a 1965 Assembled From Parts which was fine with me as the main thing I wanted was Antique Plates, which they gave me.

[MB750]

I used 1 dollar Montana. Easy process maybe 1 month. 1965 year. American collectors insurance. I didn’t care about the tax but yes that’s an obvious benefit. The biggest thing was the year for me. After 1 year or so I’ll “gift” the car to my wife. Yes, all of this is legal.

Just processed my request to register with 1 dollar Montana. The more I think about this, the more irritated with Florida and how they won't officially recognize Factory Five Racing as a valid manufacturing entity. The 1965 branding on the title is just icing on the cake, but calling my FFR an "Assembled from Parts" car is misleading. It would make me think someone just threw it together in their garage with scrap parts from multiple cars and bare steel tubing. FFR designs and manufactures excellent replica vehicles and I want my title to reflect it.

That, and I don't think I'm gonna be living in Florida too much longer. Maybe a couple years, tops.

[Dgc333]

Just processed my request to register with 1 dollar Montana. The more I think about this, the more irritated with Florida and how they won't officially recognize Factory Five Racing as a valid manufacturing entity. The 1965 branding on the title is just icing on the cake, but calling my FFR an "Assembled from Parts" car is misleading. It would make me think someone just threw it together in their garage with scrap parts from multiple cars and bare steel tubing. FFR designs and manufactures excellent replica vehicles and I want my title to reflect it.

That, and I don't think I'm gonna be living in Florida too much longer. Maybe a couple years, tops.

FWIW, FFR does not manufacture replica vehicles. They design and manufacturer parts that can be used for you to assemble a replica vehicle. They are not allowed to manufacture and sell complete vehicles.

[ggunter]

The assembled from parts thing is misleading. Aren't all cars assembled from parts? And I get why no one wants that label on their car. It makes it sound like they were built from a 47' Desoto and a 68' Corvair cobbled together to look somewhat like a car. I don't get these DMV's and their labels. If the "mirror foggers" (I like that), saw a picture of a "real Cobra" and a picture of a "replica", why would they not use the label replica. Looks just like the real one. But alas I understand the bureaucratic buffoonery that goes on in all DMV's with their never ending ways of taking something simple and making it ridiculously difficult. I really feel for the guys in California and your never ending rows of hoops to jump through. A process that should take one day takes months out there. Soldier on MB750!!

[MB750]

FWIW, FFR does not manufacture replica vehicles. They design and manufacturer parts that can be used for you to assemble a replica vehicle. They are not allowed to manufacture and sell complete vehicles.

Now, here I think you're splitting hairs where the DMV needs to see things in black and white. According to my MSO, my Roadster was Manufactured by Factory Five Racing. FFR is also registered with NHTSA as a "Replica Manufacturer". It doesn't say anything about your manufactured vehicle being delivered in parts as opposed to a completely running car aka. Superformance.

If my crystal ball was accurate, someone at the FL DMV headquarters got wind of this play and hit the brakes on all Factory Five registrations going forward that try using TL-48 even though the FFR registration process fits perfectly within that procedure.

ALSO, regardless of all this business, why isn't FFR acknowledged at all in the FL DMV database when they've officially checked off all the necessary boxes? As mentioned above, bringing to Florida a fully titled "1965 Factory Five Racing" vehicle is then rebranded as "Assembled from Parts" even though it's clearly already titled as an FFR vehicle? That is total BS.

Basically, as an educated consumer, I'm taking my money elsewhere. The best part is there's nothing illegal about it.


Edit: I also emailed the Consumer Advocate at the FL DMV asking why FFR isn't recognized in their database. I also attached links to SunBiz and NHTSA in the email as well. Maybe I'll hear back.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Devil's advocate here: Your car was not assembled by FFR, it was assembled by you...from parts! Some of which were manufactured by FFR. But in the end it was assembled from parts which came from multiple sources.

Jeff

[michael everson]

In Ma if you bring a cobra in from another state they make you go through the inspection process again and then they add their own VIN and new title to it. Great way for someone less than honest to wash a branded title on one of these.
Mike

[maclonchas]

Geez Jeff, can’t we live a little in fantasy world ��. You are killing our hope and dreams.

Thanks

Bill

[Mike.Bray]

Devil's advocate here: Your car was not assembled by FFR, it was assembled by you...from parts! Some of which were manufactured by FFR. But in the end it was assembled from parts which came from multiple sources.

Jeff

Exactly! In Texas mine was titled as a 2022 Year, ASVE Make, and Replica 1965 Shelby Cobra Model.

I looked at the Montana LLC deal and it's not as easy or safe as it seems. Google Boyd Coddington title issues and you'll see a big case. He was a builder in California that was using Georgia to title his cars and California came down on him hard and nullified all of the titles. I have heard some states are even on the lookout for cars with Montana plates, seems like Florida was one of them.

[MB750]

Exactly! In Texas mine was titled as a 2022 Year, ASVE Make, and Replica 1965 Shelby Cobra Model.

I looked at the Montana LLC deal and it's not as easy or safe as it seems. Google Boyd Coddington title issues and you'll see a big case. He was a builder in California that was using Georgia to title his cars and California came down on him hard and nullified all of the titles. I have heard some states are even on the lookout for cars with Montana plates, seems like Florida was one of them.

I'm not worried. As mentioned, Florida is the transient capital of the US. On a daily basis I see plates from different states everywhere. Just in my neighborhood, on my street are Tennessee, New York, Ohio, and Wisconsin. I'd venture a guess and say 2 in 10 plates are out of state. Much higher over holiday time frames, and between December and May. The cops around here have WAY bigger fish to fry than the chances someone with an out-of-state plate isn't on the level with the FL tax man.

Besides, it's not gonna be my daily driver. Maybe a couple thousand miles per year. Also, that Boyd Coddington thing was him skirting MILLIONS off the CA tax revenue base. I'm in this for maybe a grand, tops. It's like the IRS auditing someone who always takes the standard deductions. Very slim chances of that happening. If I were the IRS, the first place I'd start looking into auditing someone is if they itemized. Fly under the radar and you'll never get shot at.

[MB750]

Devil's advocate here: Your car was not assembled by FFR, it was assembled by you...from parts! Some of which were manufactured by FFR. But in the end it was assembled from parts which came from multiple sources.

Jeff

Counter-point: Why do some states recognize them as a manufacturer then? Most roads around the US are the same, especially interstates. Shouldn't there be some consistency?

[Blitzboy54]

Counter-point: Why do some states recognize them as a manufacturer then? Most roads around the US are the same, especially interstates. Shouldn't there be some consistency?

In NY it becomes a "custom" the year it is registered. My last build was a 2022 Custom and my next one will be 2025 Custom (maybe 2026?). I think custom is just a much better way of saying "assembled from parts". At the end of the day I don't care what they call it as long as it's legal, I would however like to transfer the title if I move. I will cross that bridge if or when it happens but the MT thing has always been in my back pocket.

[Mike.Bray]

I'm not worried. As mentioned, Florida is the transient capital of the US. On a daily basis I see plates from different states everywhere. Just in my neighborhood, on my street are Tennessee, New York, Ohio, and Wisconsin. I'd venture a guess and say 2 in 10 plates are out of state. Much higher over holiday time frames, and between December and May. The cops around here have WAY bigger fish to fry than the chances someone with an out-of-state plate isn't on the level with the FL tax man.

Besides, it's not gonna be my daily driver. Maybe a couple thousand miles per year. Also, that Boyd Coddington thing was him skirting MILLIONS off the CA tax revenue base. I'm in this for maybe a grand, tops. It's like the IRS auditing someone who always takes the standard deductions. Very slim chances of that happening. If I were the IRS, the first place I'd start looking into auditing someone is if they itemized. Fly under the radar and you'll never get shot at.

Can't disagree with anything you said. I'll see if i can find it but what I read was certain states like Florida were specifically looking for Montana tags because of the known loophole. SWAT isn't going to come knock your door down but if a trooper gets behind you there's a good chance you get lit up. Seems like Florida is also one of the states that has a grace period for changing your registration when moving there. I know Texas does this.

Appreciate all states are different and it's frustrating. In Texas the DMV only collects taxes on the sale of a motor vehicle so when registering an assembled car for the first time there isn't any tax collected as no "sale of a motor vehicle" has taken place. But if I did the Montana thing and then transferred it to Texas tax would then be due. Another reason I passed on it.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Still playing Devil's advocate---


... Also, that Boyd Coddington thing was him skirting MILLIONS off the CA tax revenue base. ...

That's exactly what you did by registering in Montana. You skirted around paying sales tax on goods purchased which would have been collected upon registering in Florida. If your house was set up as being owned by a Montana based LLC I'm pretty sure that the state of Florida would still expect that the property tax be paid. Just sayin'

Jeff

[65 Cobra Dude]

One more minor issue for those looking to go the Montana LLC route. I was told by a couple of different deputies that they specifically look for cars registered in Montana and will pull you over for the most minor infraction and when they ask for license and registration, if you have a Montana plate and FL license, they look into it much closer because they know and are looking for this. I too created a Montana LLC and decided not to go that route because of the deputies warnings. There is nothing wrong with the ASPT process because it works. I have been working with Dave and the state of FL and truthfully don’t think FFR will go state wide as replica again. As I’ve said many, many times, go to the tag office with your COO, receipt for motor and tranny and kit receipt and act stupid. About 30% of people get through as a replica.

Henry

[Chris30559]

Now, here I think you're splitting hairs where the DMV needs to see things in black and white. According to my MSO, my Roadster was Manufactured by Factory Five Racing. FFR is also registered with NHTSA as a "Replica Manufacturer". It doesn't say anything about your manufactured vehicle being delivered in parts as opposed to a completely running car aka. Superformance.

If my crystal ball was accurate, someone at the FL DMV headquarters got wind of this play and hit the brakes on all Factory Five registrations going forward that try using TL-48 even though the FFR registration process fits perfectly within that procedure.

ALSO, regardless of all this business, why isn't FFR acknowledged at all in the FL DMV database when they've officially checked off all the necessary boxes? As mentioned above, bringing to Florida a fully titled "1965 Factory Five Racing" vehicle is then rebranded as "Assembled from Parts" even though it's clearly already titled as an FFR vehicle? That is total BS.

Basically, as an educated consumer, I'm taking my money elsewhere. The best part is there's nothing illegal about it.


Edit: I also emailed the Consumer Advocate at the FL DMV asking why FFR isn't recognized in their database. I also attached links to SunBiz and NHTSA in the email as well. Maybe I'll hear back.

So I have my Certificate of Origin right in front of me, it's a 2021, not sure if yours is older/newer and states something different but mine says the following:

"This certificate represents the origin of the above automobile kit components which include the frame, body, and accessories. the purchaser of this kit assumes full responsibility for the assembly of this kit and for compliance with all relevant fed, state and local laws."

seems to me that there is no possible way TL48 would apply, as much as i would like it to. what I still don't understand is why they seem to refuse the TL-41 procedure. which exactly describes our kits/replicas. and instead default to assembled from parts.

I'll be submitting my paperwork to schedule an inspection very soon, and will be fighting/pushing for the TL-41 procedure. I'll try to keep everyone updated on what happens.

[cv2065]

As I’ve said many, many times, go to the tag office with your COO, receipt for motor and tranny and kit receipt and act stupid. About 30% of people get through as a replica.

Although I wasn't able to get my last car registered as a replica, and had to go ASPT, I agree with Henry. On my initial visit to the DMV in Orlando a few years ago, I spent 30 minutes in and out at the DMV just acting like I didn't know what was happening. I even had a bonus as my guy at the window was brand new. Had it all aligned at the DMV office to go 1965 Replica, but then the wheels fell off during the inspection. As I said before, I think the inspector was trying to help me, but she assigned ASPT in the end as there is no VIN on the car and the number plate FFR gives you is not acceptable as a VIN. I had heard of offices, like the ones in Ocala and Lakeland, assigning replica, but you have to go to the office of your mailing address, or they will turn you away.

I will say that when I sold the car, the ASPT did become a topic of discussion with the buyer. Many buyers might not be aware of the ASPT designation and they start to ask a lot of questions around the legitimacy of the car when compared to a Backdraft or Superformance. Realistically, it could cost a seller a sale, but I had no issues after a short discussion.

[MB750]

Still playing Devil's advocate---



That's exactly what you did by registering in Montana. You skirted around paying sales tax on goods purchased which would have been collected upon registering in Florida. If your house was set up as being owned by a Montana based LLC I'm pretty sure that the state of Florida would still expect that the property tax be paid. Just sayin'

Jeff

In full honesty, I'd pay the full tax amount here in FL if they'd honor the manufacturer of record of my car. My main beef is that FFR jumped through all the applicable hoops for recognition with Florida and they are still not recognized.

That, and IF I sell my car or when I leave Florida the last thing I want is a title saying is "Assembled from Parts" when I register at my next state.

More fuel for my fire too, this is straight off TL-41:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=207136&d=1733350967

I don't know about you guys, but mine says "Factory Five"

[cv2065]

I don't know about you guys, but mine says "Factory Five"

I forgot to mention that after I left the DMV the first time, I actually had the new registration in hand and when I glanced down it said Factory....the rest was under the fold and I didn't give it much thought. I took for granted that it was listed under Factory Five. Looked at it a few months later and it said Factory TRAILER! LOL. The new guy at the DMV selected the wrong make. It's only when I went back to have it fixed is when I got hit with the ASPT.

[Kbl7td]

Still playing Devil's advocate---



That's exactly what you did by registering in Montana. You skirted around paying sales tax on goods purchased which would have been collected upon registering in Florida. If your house was set up as being owned by a Montana based LLC I'm pretty sure that the state of Florida would still expect that the property tax be paid. Just sayin'

Jeff

He didn’t skirt anything, he has a legitimate business in Montana with a legal business address and a car owned by his business.

The same way I have many businesses in Florida owned by Delaware company’s.

Hell my neighbors are Canadian for 5 months out of the year.



No one is going to fck with you, “This is your “client relations” car and you’re using it to garner/prospect business deals”.

[Dgc333]

He didn’t skirt anything, he has a legitimate business in Montana with a legal business address and a car owned by his business.

The same way I have many businesses in Florida owned by Delaware company’s.

Hell my neighbors are Canadian for 5 months out of the year.



No one is going to fck with you, “This is your “client relations” car and you’re using it to garner/prospect business deals”.

You are most certainly skirting requirements of the state where the vehicle is garaged if it is registered in Montana. The legal entity that is created in Montana does not perform any business activity other than being an umbrella for registering vehicles that will spend there life in another state.

I live in Massachusetts and you see a lot of high end motor homes and campers with Montana plates. This is done to avoid paying the 2.5% annual exise tax that Massachusetts imposes on vehicles that use the states roads. Technically if the vehicle is garaged more than x number of consecutive days it is required to be registered in Massachusetts. You get away with it because it is one of those requirements that is almost impossible to police.

It used to be real popular to register your vehicles in Vermont to avoid tax and registration requirements too. You didn't even need a Vermont address but that loop hole has been closed.

[MB750]

Aside from anyone's opinion on skirting things, I'm currently in email talks with the DMV about why Factory Five isn't recognized as a manufacturer.

The first reply I got from them is that it's the "The inspectors at the Motorist Services Regional Offices determine what classifies as ASFP."

That's a BS answer if I've ever heard one, especially since out of state title transfers don't carry Factory Five, as referenced above. No inspectors in the loop on that one, and his Illinois title already said "Factory Five" was the make.

[cv2065]

The first reply I got from them is that it's the "The inspectors at the Motorist Services Regional Offices determine what classifies as ASFP."


I will say that's kind of what happened to me. If it was left up to the DMV office folks, I would have had a 1965 Replica. It's just when I met with the inspector did I get a different classification. The main issue is that if you don't have a legitimate VIN on the chassis that aligns with a manufacturer in their DB, then they automatically place it into the ASPT category.

[Dgc333]

I will say that's kind of what happened to me. If it was left up to the DMV office folks, I would have had a 1965 Replica. It's just when I met with the inspector did I get a different classification. The main issue is that if you don't have a legitimate VIN on the chassis that aligns with a manufacturer in their DB, then they automatically place it into the ASPT category.

FFR vehicles don't have a VIN, some states will use the FFR serial number as an assigned VIN. Since 1980 the federal government has defined the format of a VIN that all manufacturers must comply with and the FFR serial number does not comply which is the reason for the state assigning a VIN.

[MB750]

UPDATE!!!

A manager from the Florida DMV actually called me yesterday to give me an update. Truth be told, I actually submitted another CS request on Tuesday referencing my original CS, just to make sure they knew I was going to be a thorn in their bottoms and wasn't letting this go.

She said, in quite a few words, that ultimately I'm 100% correct. TL-41 does perfectly align with our kits and all applications should reflect Factory Five as the manufacturer. She's still looking into why the DMV database doesn't show Factory Five as an option, but she did say there is a way to bypass the options menu and write in a manufacturer. TBD in that regard.

More officially, and technically, TL-43 applies to "Assembled from Parts". See it HERE (https://www.flhsmv.gov/pdf/proc/tl/tl-43.pdf)

I told her there's no hurry since I'm still polishing up my build to make it roadworthy in gelcoat, but in the coming weeks I'd like to lock this all down.

Also regarding the Montana thing. I was approved for my LLC and now they're waiting for me to fill out some paperwork, get something notarized, and mail it all up there. I've also gotten an email from them saying something to the effect of having to pay a few hundred each year to them for "LLC maintenance" but I didn't fully understand so I just sent them an email asking for an itemized breakdown of everything I'm initially paying for to get my registration, and a breakdown of all the annual fees I'll be accountable for to keep everything on the level. I know 1 dollar has outstanding reviews, but pricing transparency isn't one of them thus far. I did get hit with the LLC charge ($299), and the rest is still unknown and outstanding pending my return of documents.

[cv2065]

I do find it odd that if Factory Five is listed in Sunbiz as a business and manufacturer, why it's not in their DB.

[Kbl7td]

UPDATE!!!

A manager from the Florida DMV actually called me yesterday to give me an update. Truth be told, I actually submitted another CS request on Tuesday referencing my original CS, just to make sure they knew I was going to be a thorn in their bottoms and wasn't letting this go.

She said, in quite a few words, that ultimately I'm 100% correct. TL-41 does perfectly align with our kits and all applications should reflect Factory Five as the manufacturer. She's still looking into why the DMV database doesn't show Factory Five as an option, but she did say there is a way to bypass the options menu and write in a manufacturer. TBD in that regard.

More officially, and technically, TL-43 applies to "Assembled from Parts". See it HERE (https://www.flhsmv.gov/pdf/proc/tl/tl-43.pdf)

I told her there's no hurry since I'm still polishing up my build to make it roadworthy in gelcoat, but in the coming weeks I'd like to lock this all down.

Also regarding the Montana thing. I was approved for my LLC and now they're waiting for me to fill out some paperwork, get something notarized, and mail it all up there. I've also gotten an email from them saying something to the effect of having to pay a few hundred each year to them for "LLC maintenance" but I didn't fully understand so I just sent them an email asking for an itemized breakdown of everything I'm initially paying for to get my registration, and a breakdown of all the annual fees I'll be accountable for to keep everything on the level. I know 1 dollar has outstanding reviews, but pricing transparency isn't one of them thus far. I did get hit with the LLC charge ($299), and the rest is still unknown and outstanding pending my return of documents.

It’s significantly cheaper than the FL route. Additionally the yearly fees are just for them to act as your registered agent and for the annual LLC to stay active. Same as if you had a Florida LLC, except typically you’d be acting as your own agent.

Best course of action would to just transfer it to yourself in Florida when you feel the time is right. I’m sure you can set your sale price whatever you feel comfortable with.

[maclonchas]

Matt,

Keep us updated if you get more information from the Florida DMV as I will be getting close to doing this same routine sometime in Jan/Feb 2025.

Thanks

Bill

[kevin j sullivan]

Even though my car is still in go-kart, I've got a few extra bucks lying around and wanted to get the registration out of the way. Since the Replica process according to the DMV form TL-48 doesn't require a physical inspection, I decided to try to register it today. Since the hurricane just ripped thru I figured the DMV would be pretty light today.

I was right, I didn't even sit down before they called my number. I came prepared. I brought a printout of TL-48 with a few select locations highlighted, printouts of the NHTSA and Sunbiz registrations for Factory Five, my insurance, DMV form 82040-MV (with notarization), the MSO, and a blank check for payment. The lady I got was having trouble so she corresponded a LOT with someone in a cubicle behind her.

After a few questions back and forth, she said she'd need a weight slip. I didn't argue, so I'll figure that out somehow. They also had an issue finding Factory Five in their list of manufacturers. That's where the printouts from NHTSA and Sunbiz came in handy. The cubicle lady scanned all the documents I brought with me and said they'd have to talk to Tallahassee to see how to handle this. She then took down my name and number and said I'd get a call next week. Tallahassee got smoked last night so they're closed today. I need the weight slip anyway so I'm stalled for now.

I kinda dug my heels in about the "Replica Manufacturer" thing and NEVER said the words "Kit Car". One time she asked me if it was a complete car, so I said I had to source an engine, transmission, and axle. She was going over the invoice from FFR so I thought being honest was the best policy there. And I clarified I already owned those items (taxes paid on those items).

Depending on how this goes, FFR might officially be put in the DMV system as a replica car manufacturer. I'll keep this updated as things develop.

Also, anybody have any ideas how to get a weight slip for a car that runs but doesn't have the body installed? I know I could trailer it to a scale, but I could also use my wife's car, or my neighbors red BRZ, or 5 motorcycles, etc... Nothing on the weight slip shows proof of what's being weighed.

You're fighting city hall here. All states require visible inspection upon first registering a kit car. . The "kit car" companies are not manufacturers and will never be recognized as such. Best thing to do is get friendly with an inspector, bring the completed car to him/her. (Obviously he's not going to let you or anyone else register a car without checking for proper headlights, turn signals, wipers etc.) Show him where the VIN # is, (usually the frame from FFR.) He'll take a picture, give you a couple documents to present to the DMV and you're done! My gut feeling is sooner or later you're going to aggravate them the way you are going - you do not want to do that.

[rich grsc]

You're fighting city hall here. All states require visible inspection upon first registering a kit car. . The "kit car" companies are not manufacturers and will never be recognized as such. Best thing to do is get friendly with an inspector, bring the completed car to him/her. (Obviously he's not going to let you or anyone else register a car without checking for proper headlights, turn signals, wipers etc.) Show him where the VIN # is, (usually the frame from FFR.) He'll take a picture, give you a couple documents to present to the DMV and you're done! My gut feeling is sooner or later you're going to aggravate them the way you are going - you do not want to do that.
Not so. To title in Missouri, a safety inspection is not required, they are just checking to verify documentation of the major components and ownership. If you go with standard title and registration, then you need a safety inspection and emissions, if you use year of manufacture (based on body type) then no inspection required.

[Kbl7td]

You're fighting city hall here. All states require visible inspection upon first registering a kit car. . The "kit car" companies are not manufacturers and will never be recognized as such. Best thing to do is get friendly with an inspector, bring the completed car to him/her. (Obviously he's not going to let you or anyone else register a car without checking for proper headlights, turn signals, wipers etc.) Show him where the VIN # is, (usually the frame from FFR.) He'll take a picture, give you a couple documents to present to the DMV and you're done! My gut feeling is sooner or later you're going to aggravate them the way you are going - you do not want to do that.

As evidence by MT plates being on my car, and FL plates on my previous SLC, no inspection was done on either. They were literally still in pieces when I got plates/title.

[Jeff Kleiner]

You're fighting city hall here. All states require visible inspection upon first registering a kit car. . The "kit car" companies are not manufacturers and will never be recognized as such. Best thing to do is get friendly with an inspector, bring the completed car to him/her. (Obviously he's not going to let you or anyone else register a car without checking for proper headlights, turn signals, wipers etc.) Show him where the VIN # is, (usually the frame from FFR.) He'll take a picture, give you a couple documents to present to the DMV and you're done! My gut feeling is sooner or later you're going to aggravate them the way you are going - you do not want to do that.

Like Rich said about the Missouri process there is NO safety or equipment inspection in Indiana. The State issues a VIN (NOT the FFR frame number) and a LEO has to sign off on a form to verify that number has been affixed to the vehicle. No inspection of any sort beyond that. I have received VINs and registered more than one bare FFR chassis with no drivetrain.

Jeff

[cv2065]

Florida is the same as Missouri. As Rich/Jeff stated, there is no safety or equipment inspection in this state. They verify that you actually have the car and then issue a VIN which can't be the FFR number.

[MB750]

You're fighting city hall here. All states require visible inspection upon first registering a kit car. . The "kit car" companies are not manufacturers and will never be recognized as such. Best thing to do is get friendly with an inspector, bring the completed car to him/her. (Obviously he's not going to let you or anyone else register a car without checking for proper headlights, turn signals, wipers etc.) Show him where the VIN # is, (usually the frame from FFR.) He'll take a picture, give you a couple documents to present to the DMV and you're done! My gut feeling is sooner or later you're going to aggravate them the way you are going - you do not want to do that.

I know I'm fighting City Hall, which is why I went to the State. And if I wanted to follow your suggestion I'd end up with a title that says I put my Factory Five together with randomly assembled parts and no title reflecting an actual, manufactured and engineered kit. I appreciate your input here, but I believe the FL DMV procedures have the official authority on this one. "How people used to do it..." has led to a bunch of ASPT branded titles. TL-41 seems to be something nobody has officially followed (even Florida's own DMV), so we're now in uncharted waters.

And if I do aggravate them??? By holding them accountable for their own DMV procedures? If they're still aggravated, then, well, F-them. My money's going to Montana.

[rich grsc]

You need to look up the definition of "manufactured and engineered kit". A kit is NOT a vehicle, it is assembled from parts, to become a vehicle. ALL Factory Fives are assembled from random parts.:rolleyes:

[JeffP]

Like Rich said about the Missouri process there is NO safety or equipment inspection in Indiana. The State issues a VIN (NOT the FFR frame number) and a LEO has to sign off on a form to verify that number has been affixed to the vehicle. No inspection of any sort beyond that. I have received VINs and registered more than one bare FFR chassis with no drivetrain.

Jeff

Add North Carolina to the list as far as inspections go... they do use the ffr serial for the VIN though.

[MB750]

You need to look up the definition of "manufactured and engineered kit". A kit is NOT a vehicle, it is assembled from parts, to become a vehicle. ALL Factory Fives are assembled from random parts.:rolleyes:

Have you actually read TL-41?

Didn't think so.

[rich grsc]

Don't live there, so no. Doesn't change one thing I said though.

[MB750]

I guess I don't understand why some of you are defending Florida for registering these cars incorrectly for years. Technically every car is assembled from parts, rendering that argument moot. Florida has a procedure for registering kit cars yet nobody has followed it, nor has Florida been held accountable for not following it.

How many other states do the same thing?

[cv2065]

I support you 100% Matt. If you can find a loophole, I'd follow suit. I went down this same road with the DMV where they contacted their office in Tallahassee. Took a couple of days to get a response, but then they registered it as ASPT. I think what got me was this phrase on the TL-43:

"Assembled from parts" means a motor vehicle or mobile home assembled from parts or combined from parts of motor vehicles or mobile homes, new or used."

And this one:

"ASPT (assembled from parts) is a designation for motor vehicles, mobile homes, motorcycles, trailers, and off-highway vehicles that are assembled from parts of other motor vehicles, mobile homes, motorcycles, trailers, or off-highway vehicles, new or used, and placed on an existing frame or a frame that is homemade."

These were updated just last year as I don't think they were as definitive when I registered back in 2019 but was still a showstopper. Also looks like they updated the TL-47 Replica application and really tightened the nomenclature there too. Not having a chassis VIN that the state can accept is the primary issue. That's how Backdraft and Superformance can get theirs registered as a 1965 replica, as they are sold through dealers and assigned a VIN at the point of purchase, just like a regular car.

I look forward to seeing what they say. Good luck!!

[maclonchas]

Well folks, I will wait and see on how this all plays out. I am not trying to avoid taxes (pay too much already) and not really concerned about the arguments about ASPT versus kit car. The Florida statute definition for kit car is as follows: "Section 319.14(1) (c) 5, Florida Statutes, defines Kit Car as a motor vehicle assembled with a kit supplied by a manufacturer to rebuild a wrecked or outdated motor vehicle with a new body kit." "Section 320.0863(1)(b), Florida Statutes, defines a custom vehicle as a motor vehicle that is 25 years old or older and of a model year after 1948 or was manufactured to resemble a vehicle that is 25 years old or older and of a model year after 1948; and has been altered from the manufacturer's original design or has a body constructed from non-original materials."

Here is the definition from TL-41 for kit car, a further refinement in the TLs to narrow the scope down of the replica.

"A kit car is a motor vehicle that is assembled from a kit which comes in a box from the kit manufacturer. Major components such as engine and transmission are taken from one or more donor vehicles. The definition of a kit car is usually taken to mean that a number of kits are produced by a manufacturer for sale to the public. Current kit cars are often replicas of well-known and expensive classics and are designed so anyone with a measure of technical skill can build them at home to a standard where they can be driven on the public roads. For vehicles which are COMPLETE replicas (no assembly required), see Procedure TL-48."

Now Backdraft and others manufacturers that provide completed kits follow TL-48.

FFR own website states:

"The Factory Five Mk4 Roadster is the world’s best-selling, best-engineered, and best-performing replica of all time. There is no better way to honor a legacy than to continue it. The Mk4 Roadster is designed to accurately reproduce the looks of the legendary 427 Cobra®, keeping its essence intact while using modern technology, parts and materials to improve performance, reliability and comfort. There are two ways to build your Factory Five Mk4 Roadster. You can use parts from a Mustang donor car (Base Kit) or you can get all-new parts from us (Complete Kit). Either way you choose to build your Factory Five Roadster, we have engineered the kit to make the process of building your own car as simple and straightforward as possible. Over the years we have expanded our chassis kit to include factory-new parts as well. Our Mk4 complete kit delivers to you… well, a complete kit. The only additional things you’ll need are your own engine/transmission/rear end, wheels/tires, and paint."

I am not a lawyer (but reading Texas and other state DMV documents), States seem to follow the same definition status for kit cars and only deviate on the requirements for titling (weighing, ASE certification, Safety inspection, etc.). The argument that the car is assembled by parts to me is a red herring. All cars are assembled by parts. This is the definition of the assembly process that one can look up in any book. The statutes and definitions are trying to differentiate between OEMs that meet different criteria for assembly (Ford, GM, etc), completed kits that fall under TL-48, TL-41 for kit cars, and other Assembled by Parts (TL-43) not covered under the other TLs.

It appears to me that TL-43 was written to cover cars that were chopped up and made by an individual with no kit. There are many examples of hot rods, dune buggy VWs and others will considerable welding and mechanical skills that piece together there own dream of a car and that is what TL-43 seems to be addressing here (all others not defined in other TLs).

I believe that Matt is only trying to push the FL DMV to explain why FFR which completed the documents for Florida (thanks to Henry's work) are making the distinction here for not including FFR within TL-41 and not arguing whether this kit is assembled by the hobbyist. At least that is my take on his plight and how I would go about getting a final determination from Tallahassee. Maybe there is something that FFR still needs to do or some decision memorandum that we have not seen and they will provide to us.

Thanks

Bill

[MB750]

Well folks, .....

Bill

Yes. All of that. 100%. Thank you for clarifying.

[Dgc333]

Providing that there is no financial or usage implications, what difference does it make if the car is titled as a replica or assembled from parts?

My goal was to get a registration and plates so I could drive my 33. Whether the title was branded as replica or assembled from parts made no difference to me.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Providing that there is no financial or usage implications, what difference does it make if the car is titled as a replica or assembled from parts?



That's been my question every time this conversation comes up.

Jeff

[Blitzboy54]

Providing that there is no financial or usage implications, what difference does it make if the car is titled as a replica or assembled from parts?

My goal was to get a registration and plates so I could drive my 33. Whether the title was branded as replica or assembled from parts made no difference to me.

I guess I don’t get it either. It’s still the baddest car on the planet, no?

[maclonchas]

I am not saying that one titling is better than another. I am trying to get clarity on what should be a simple answer to how the legislature and DMV put together the new rules (post Covid). When I purchased the vehicle, I had a plan and had it saved from previous folks who had registered their cars here in Florida. We seem to get a lot of assumptions of why it does not work or has changed, but I have not found any evidence in the data I have reviewed from the state legislature or DMV proposed changes. Maybe it is my government background that does not allow me to just say that is the way it is without a little more details.

[Kbl7td]

It’s about the year. Florida doesn’t want to do ASPT 1965. That wouldn’t make sense if it was assembled in 2024.

Replica gets you 1965, because you know, it’s a replica of a 1965.

Same folks who will scoff at the thought of an LS/LT in a coupe/roadster. This **** isn’t a ford, not that it ever was anyways…

[MB750]

For me, it's about following an official DMV procedure and recognizing FFR as the manufacturer of my kit like the procedure says they should.

As I said earlier, I believe branding our cars ASPT devalues them. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but I've got some pride in my car because it's a Factory Five and I'd like it officially shown what it is.

That, and the procedure says it should.

[JeffP]

Somewhat along these lines, does anyone know how Florida would handle a transfer? I'll be moving down there in a few years and this is my NC Title.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=207782&d=1734700492

[cv2065]

For me, it's about following an official DMV procedure and recognizing FFR as the manufacturer of my kit like the procedure says they should.

“I believe branding our cars ASPT devalues them. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't”

It certainly ignites conversation from prospective buyers as they do ask about how the title looks. It could potentially cost a sale.

[MB750]

Somewhat along these lines, does anyone know how Florida would handle a transfer? I'll be moving down there in a few years and this is my NC Title.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=207782&d=1734700492

Considering there's a forum member earlier in this thread who came from Illinois down to Florida and they kept his year, but changed Factory Five to ASPT (because they couldn't find Factory Five as a manufacturer in the DMV database).

[MB750]

It certainly ignites conversation from prospective buyers as they do ask about how the title looks. It could potentially cost a sale.

This is exactly my point (amongst a few other things). I know I could show a buyer all the FFR branding and stamping all over the chassis, but I shouldn't have to.

[FLPBFoot]

Considering there's a forum member earlier in this thread who came from Illinois down to Florida and they kept his year, but changed Factory Five to ASPT (because they couldn't find Factory Five as a manufacturer in the DMV database).

Yep, that was me. I'm okay with that as they did allow me to get antique plates. FOr my current build I'm hoping you get this worked out so I can get 1965 on this new build.

Steve

[JeffP]

Yep, that was me. I'm okay with that as they did allow me to get antique plates. FOr my current build I'm hoping you get this worked out so I can get 1965 on this new build.

Steve

The year is typically the more critical piece to me - as it typically gets you out of all the inspection requirements.

[MB750]

The year is typically the more critical piece to me - as it typically gets you out of all the inspection requirements.

I'm pretty sure Florida doesn't have those anyway. Considering how many vehicles around here drive around in terrible condition, or think every straight road is a drag strip, it would surprise me.

The only "inspection" I've gotten is when I moved to FL. The cop at the DMV just had to confirm my VIN on my title was on the vehicle. That's it.

Since Steve kept his 1965 year but the manufacturer changed from FFR to ASPT, I would assume you'd be ok with that.

[steveseymore]

I have been going through this same process with same results reported here. The TL-41 procedure for Kit titles in Florida is outlined well and matches the Factory Five experience quite accurately. The use of the kit title in Florida does rely on the kit manufacturer to be operating to the NHTSA guidelines. Although FFR has requested to become a manufacturer and been approved, it appears they are not fully operating under their guidelines yet. Most notably is that the NHTSA does require the use of standardized VINs (Part 565) and FFR has not submitted this to them. I believe they fall under the "incomplete vehicles" and are still required to provide VINs per the standard with kit deliveries. This is the reason Florida does not have them as on option in the system yet. I got this information in conversations with FDHSMV and NHTSA this week, the above is my best interpretation.

It appears that once FFR finalizes the VINs with NHTSA they could be added to the Florida title data base and Kit Titles would be an option. I was actually at FFR last week and it appeared they believe all the NHTSA requirements are already met, so it doesn't appear like the situation will resolve soon -but it does seem to be moving in the right direction.

[maclonchas]

Steveseymore,

Thanks for the update and this makes sense. You provided the missing piece of data I was looking for in relation to why DMV was not recognizing FFR yet. I guess that if this VIN issue gets resolved, it will effect future releases for FFR, but probable will not have an effect on the kits already delivered.

Thanks again,

Bill

[65 Cobra Dude]

This is the process I went through a couple of times. As y'all know, Dave Smith and I have been fighting for replicas status but it's a very slow process. ASPT works albeit a little bit of pain but driving it now.

I finally got my car tagged and titled in Charlotte County, FL. It’s titled as a 2024 assembled from parts (ASPT).. The process was simple but required a bit of time. I emailed Debra (debraTafoya@flhsmv.com) from the Palmetto, FL office and she sent me an email with the documents required. She highlighted exactly what I need to fill out and I complied. HSMV 82040 MV Rev 07/23 and HSM84490, 07/24. Only, and I repeat only, fill out what is highlighted. I then had to get a certified weight slip. I went to the local Pilot Truck Stop (Punta Gorda) and had her weighed. I trailered her there and she weighed 2540 lbs (big block, 3 link and insulated interior and trunk). I got 2 copies of the completed form from them for a total of $13. Got 2 because the state lost my first one last time and I didn’t want to have to load up again to get a new weight. I sent the original weight slip, check for $40, copy of receipt from FFR for the kit, copy of receipt for engine and transmission and required forms listed above. I got a call from Tommy from the tag office setting up my inspection. They only inspect on Tuesdays here. Tommy offered a temporary 10 day tag to drive it to the inspection but I decided to trailer again because of the scattered rain here. I went to the inspection today and it was easy. Nice guy came and looked at my car, still in trailer, and said, nice car, where do you want VIN. Pretty simple, no safety checks, no wipers. At this point, you have the option to get it titled and tagged there and then (if you have insurance) but they don’t supply Veterans plates there so I decided to go to my local tag office. They gave me a manilla envelope with do not open stamped all over it. I got home, unloaded trailer and put the car away. I then called my insurance company (American Modern for GEICO) to document my newly acquired VIN and get the insurance updated to the new VIN (insured for $65k agreed upon value, $1260/yr). I then took my insurance card, manilla envelope and a check for 7% of the costs for the kit and the motor/transmission ($2645) and walked out with a legal title, registration and plate. I have been working with FFR, Dave Smith, and Tallahassee HQ on fighting for replica status on these cars. I sat down with the boss at our local tag office and we concluded ASPT is the only way to go for our FFR cars at this time (this after I had 5 FFR cars titled here as replicas). The new laws require this because a replica is reserved for cars that are complete by the manufacturer. It's done and legal and I’m tired of fighting the state for replica status. I, like many others are worried about possibly selling their cars and the acquiring state requiring safety inspections as a 2024. I sold a 2021 ASPT Coupe to a guy from Missouri and it went through without issue. Sorry for the long post, I’m just happy to be finally legal. It’s really a simple process that works and makes us legal. We’re still talking with FL to get it consistent around the state for all FFR’s because each County, tag office, and individual could be different. Consistency across the Counties with the ability to transfer a (certificate of origin) COO from an owner that couldn’t, didn’t, finish their kit. Current FL law requires the original name on the COO to title it and that’s not easy sometimes. My advice to anyone trying to tag/title in FL is to initially try to tag and title as a replica and don’t be surprised if you have to go ASPT. Just go in and act oblivious. About 30% or so get lucky and are given replica status but it's a shot in the dark. One guy even got it registered as a Factory Five trailer! Email me at hrenaud at comcast dot net and I can send you the highlighted forms from the DMV with instructions.

Henry

[Cutter 54]

“That, and IF I sell my car or when I leave Florida the last thing I want is a title saying is "Assembled from Parts" when I register at my next state.“

Does it really matter WHAT the car is titled as? For voting purposes I am “Caucasian male Independent”, pretty impersonal and vague description of who I actually am. Each state handles zillions of different statues, laws, licenses, etc. and sets definitions which allow them to be efficient and fundamentally correct FOR THEIR OWN NEEDS. You, as a car owner, have this specific single issue as a priority and the luxury of analyzing the details of registration, what a manufacturer is, what “assembled” means, etc. from a legal, English language dictionary and a common sense point of view. I know you will not take my advice, although I am in the process of registering my Mk 4 in Lake county, but here are 2 points:
1) I suggest you heed the suggestions of builders who have wrestled with this issue and have the benefit of personal experience.
2) be sure your car insurance policy lists FLORIDA on the insurance identification card, confirming that is where the car will be housed. My NY policy, which is my legal address and where the car was built by me, had to be re-issued, at a higher premium, to satisfy the “Florida insured car” requirement per TL-43. The car will be garaged and driven in Lake County.

Just trying to be helpful to a fellow builder who also strives to follow the rules to the “T” but sometimes misses the forest for the trees. We must all pick our battles wisely. Good luck.

[MB750]

“That, and IF I sell my car or when I leave Florida the last thing I want is a title saying is "Assembled from Parts" when I register at my next state.“

Does it really matter WHAT the car is titled as? For voting purposes I am “Caucasian male Independent”, pretty impersonal and vague description of who I actually am. Each state handles zillions of different statues, laws, licenses, etc. and sets definitions which allow them to be efficient and fundamentally correct FOR THEIR OWN NEEDS. You, as a car owner, have this specific single issue as a priority and the luxury of analyzing the details of registration, what a manufacturer is, what “assembled” means, etc. from a legal, English language dictionary and a common sense point of view. I know you will not take my advice, although I am in the process of registering my Mk 4 in Lake county, but here are 2 points:
1) I suggest you heed the suggestions of builders who have wrestled with this issue and have the benefit of personal experience.
2) be sure your car insurance policy lists FLORIDA on the insurance identification card, confirming that is where the car will be housed. My NY policy, which is my legal address and where the car was built by me, had to be re-issued, at a higher premium, to satisfy the “Florida insured car” requirement per TL-43. The car will be garaged and driven in Lake County.

Just trying to be helpful to a fellow builder who also strives to follow the rules to the “T” but sometimes misses the forest for the trees. We must all pick our battles wisely. Good luck.

Thank you, respectfully I appreciate your feedback.

Instead of seeing the forest through the trees, I feel like I've more found a needle in a haystack. TL-41 is for "Replica Kit cars", and I'm just holding Florida responsible for their procedures. It's a battle I'm willing to fight, but not the hill I'll die on, if that makes sense.

[Cutter 54]

I had posted my earlier comments before Henry's (65 Cobra Dude) was posted, so some of my advice was superfluous. Still, based on my personal experience, reading on the subject of FLA registration and having just this week met Henry personally and knowing his enormous experience and expertise of all things Cobra, among other subjects, I would regard his comments as the last word. Period.

I am soon to join the "assembled from parts" club. Things change. This is where the replica world is at the moment. Good luck.

[MB750]

While I can appreciate everyone's input on this subject, this also doesn't mean I have to follow it. I love getting input on things I don't understand, but in this case "the way it's always been" isn't sitting well with me, especially because Florida themselves isn't doing it to their own procedure.

Consider it an accountability measure. Florida half-***** just about everything. Especially when it comes to Gov't related things. It's like there's a huge easy button for anything relatively thought-provoking that gets pressed all too easily.

I'm sure if I walked into a DMV with a few grand in cash I could bribe my way to getting Factory Five Racing on my title though. That seems to work well down here too.

[MB750]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208549&d=1736031528

Well, that was easy.

I'll still update this thread if Florida ever calls me back.

[Chris30559]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=208549&d=1736031528

Well, that was easy.

I'll still update this thread if Florida ever calls me back.

What did the entire process cost for the Montana route. Did you ever get the itemized receipt you asked for awhile back? And did you ever get a final yearly cost to maintain the Montana tag?
Thanks!
Chris

[MB750]

What did the entire process cost for the Montana route. Did you ever get the itemized receipt you asked for awhile back? And did you ever get a final yearly cost to maintain the Montana tag?
Thanks!
Chris

$1100 all in (including the tracked shipping of docs up there), and $49/year maintenance.

$750 of it was just for the LLC...

[bartock]

still not bad considering Fl tax will cost about 1500 to 2000 depending on your kit price

[MB750]

Just wanted to put a quick update on here with my Montana LLC experience.

Yes, I got my plates and registration paperwork pretty quick, but it's been 12 weeks since then and I'm still waiting for my title. When I got my registration paper there's an ink stamp that says "Your title will be mailed to you in 4-6 weeks". I've since asked 1 Dollar Montana twice over that span of time (recently, and at 8 weeks) and I'm just being told to keep waiting. That's it, no other assistance.

Fortunately the Montana DMV seems to be more receptive to having an actual customer service section of their business, so I sent them a message asking what the status of my title is. There's even a phone number, but I'll try emailing first. Why couldn't 1 Dollar Montana do that???

I guess I'm getting what I paid for.

[bcorner]

Boy! I just finished reading this thread. I'm building my Type65 Daytona Coupe right now. I got it in February. If possible, I'd love to sit down for a cup of coffee and talk through the paperwork with someone. I'm in the middle of Jacksonville, Florida.

[MB750]

Boy! I just finished reading this thread. I'm building my Type65 Daytona Coupe right now. I got it in February. If possible, I'd love to sit down for a cup of coffee and talk through the paperwork with someone. I'm in the middle of Jacksonville, Florida.

The paperwork to register in Florida? Or "elsewhere"?

BTW, I have a tracking number to get my title today. Squeaky wheel, meet grease.