Motor Transmission Selection Advice

[Doc76]

It is coming time to select a new motor and tranny package and I was hoping for some feedback on this decision process.
For starters I had to buy a runner due to time and resources in case anyone is wondering why I didn’t just build a car….trust me I would have loved to and perhaps at some point after retirement I may do so, but buying a runner was my best bet.
My cars a 2012 mk4 completed in 2018 with a “freshen’d up” 302/T5. Totally built on a budget. Based on findings I am sure the freshen’d up comment is extremely loose. It’s clean but that’s about it.
There are several things done not quite right from the braking system to the cooling system and I am looking to make a decision on whether to go 347/TKX or 351w-based 427/TKX while I drop the rearend and change gears and convert the rear to disc.
I have a FFR radiator, Breeze shroud (upper and lower), Breeze rad mounts (upper and lower) and a Flexlite Lowboy fan waiting to go in.

I have spoken to FFR who confirmed both motor options will work in my chassis without modification with the exception of the headers in the 427 application. They said the headers would need to be swapped out too along with an upgraded fuel system?

To my understanding this will work but hoping you guys can connect dots I am undoubtedly missing along with things to consider

Thanks in advance

[danmas]

I can’t give you any advice except to say I’m doing a 427/tkx (bored and stroked 351w) and it’s because it’s what I want. That said, I dropped about 28k on that config because I went with a Jim Inglese stack efi. Depends on budget and what you want…

[CraigS]

Looking at 302 based engines 331 and 347 are popular. I am not sure of the differences but your existing headers and intake will fit although you probably need a larger carb. Your T5 trans may hold up for a while. As you look at 351 based options there a couple of $ hurdles to get by as you go up. 1- For any 351 based engine you will need a new intake manifold and larger carb as well as new FFR headers. 2- You can get to a 408 w/ a stock 351 block and a stroker kit. To go to a 427 you need an aftermarket block which is a $4000 bump. You also definitely need a new stronger trans.
https://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Performance/397/M-6010B35195/10002/-1

[CraigS]

Looking at 302 based engines 331 and 347 are popular. I am not sure of the differences but your existing headers and intake will fit although you probably need a larger carb. Your T5 trans may hold up for a while. As you look at 351 based options there a couple of $ hurdles to get by as you go up. 1- For any 351 based engine you will need a new intake manifold and larger carb as well as new FFR headers. 2- You can get to a 408 w/ a stock 351 block and a stroker kit. To go to a 427 you need an aftermarket block which is a $4000 bump. You also definitely need a new stronger trans.
https://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Performance/397/M-6010B35195/10002/-1

[Doc76]

Looking at 302 based engines 331 and 347 are popular. I am not sure of the differences but your existing headers and intake will fit although you probably need a larger carb. Your T5 trans may hold up for a while. As you look at 351 based options there a couple of $ hurdles to get by as you go up. 1- For any 351 based engine you will need a new intake manifold and larger carb as well as new FFR headers. 2- You can get to a 408 w/ a stock 351 block and a stroker kit. To go to a 427 you need an aftermarket block which is a $4000 bump. You also definitely need a new stronger trans.
https://www.jegs.com/i/Ford-Performance/397/M-6010B35195/10002/-1

From what I have been reading as you go up to the 351/427 cooling management seems to become a challenging topic as well.

[CraigS]

Yes but a good radiator takes care of that. I believe the FFR unit is good to go. I had an aftermarket Mustang radiator from Summit, all aluminum and a doble thick core. Also a 2500cfm rad fan on a good shroud is needed. The 180F T-stat, a fan temp sensor can be 190-195F, and a dash switch makes it nice to be pre-emptive when you know your are in slow traffic on a hot day.

[Jeff Kleiner]

FFR radiator is more than capable for a 347 or 427W unless it's boosted or very high compression.

Jeff

[gbranham]

When I built my first FFR, a MkIII, I did a freshened upn302 from a donor. It made about 325hp. It was fun, but I quickly outgrew it. For my MkIV, I'm building a 427 Boss stroker. Should be around 550hp. Probably way too much, but that's what I want. Definitely more expensive. I'll have about 25k in the engine/TKX/EFI package.

[Doc76]

When I built my first FFR, a MkIII, I did a freshened upn302 from a donor. It made about 325hp. It was fun, but I quickly outgrew it. For my MkIV, I'm building a 427 Boss stroker. Should be around 550hp. Probably way too much, but that's what I want. Definitely more expensive. I'll have about 25k in the engine/TKX/EFI package.

That’s kinda where I am at. Mine has a “freshened up” donor 302 and I’m ready to move on.
Who did you go with for the engine and tranny package?

I need to find a competent shop to help with the swap too. The guy I thought I had does not have the necessary skillset stated.

I’m in BC , Canada but seems as though many builders here over the past few years have shut down.

[Jim1855]

I started with a 427W / TKO600 20 years ago, Not an FFR. Worked well and power went up with tuning and carb, manifold & header changes. Might go up again, looking for high 500's.
Never looked back and wished I had less power, that would be an unfathomable concept. That same engine / trans package is going in the current, and yes, very slow build.
I do have a friend that has changed from the TKO600 to the TKX, he really likes it.
Jim

[Doc76]

I started with a 427W / TKO600 20 years ago, Not an FFR. Worked well and power went up with tuning and carb, manifold & header changes. Might go up again, looking for high 500's.
Never looked back and wished I had less power, that would be an unfathomable concept. That same engine / trans package is going in the current, and yes, very slow build.
I do have a friend that has changed from the TKO600 to the TKX, he really likes it.
Jim

Are you EFI or carbureted?

[Jim1855]

Doc,
Always a carb. Currently a ProSystems 780 HP based double pumper. No choke or choke horn. Chokes are just an air restriction and serve little if any purpose on a warm weather car.
I've run a Holley 670 Vac Street Avenger, then a 770 Street Avenger. After switching heads (AFR 225s) and manifold (Edelbrock Vic Jr) I ran a ProSystems 950, it was recommended but too big. Settled on the 780, nicely runs my motor to 7,000. Potential mods, I have a Super Victor manifold. If I install it, I'll switch to a ProSystem 850 just for grins & giggles.
I better get building, not getting any younger and I'm already old.
Jim

[Doc76]

Something I hadn’t considered
Will the stock mustang axles be robust enough for the ~500hp stresses?
I’m on 5 lug axles for reference

[CraigS]

Probably unless you run street drag radials w/ softer grippier compound. But, when doing a rear gear you can upgrade the axles. 31 tooth splines are stronger than the more standard 28(?) versions. Of course beyond that there are axles made from better alloy steel too.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Echoing what Craig said; unless you’re running drag slicks and shocking it with 5,000RPM clutch dumps you aren’t going to hurt it. Traction (or the lack thereof) will be your fuse.

Now with that said, considering all of the changes you are considering making to this car (engine, trans, rear gearing, brakes, cooling system...) I have to suggest that by the time that you factor in what the upgrades are going to cost in both materials and labor you might be better off financially to sell it as it is and shop for one that is already built more to your end goal. Just something you might want to give some serious consideration to.

Jeff

[rich grsc]

As a new cobra owner, why do you want, or think you can handle 500 HP? You can't just put new bigger, stronger axles in without changing the center section.

[gbranham]

That’s kinda where I am at. Mine has a “freshened up” donor 302 and I’m ready to move on.
Who did you go with for the engine and tranny package?

I need to find a competent shop to help with the swap too. The guy I thought I had does not have the necessary skillset stated.

I’m in BC , Canada but seems as though many builders here over the past few years have shut down.

I'm building my own engine with parts mostly sourced from Summit. Same with clutch, bellhousing, tranny...all from Summit. They have nice MkIV parts packages for most of this, and you can sub in other parts if you want.

Greg

[Doc76]

As a new cobra owner, why do you want, or think you can handle 500 HP? You can't just put new bigger, stronger axles in without changing the center section.

Why do any of us need more power in these cars ;)

[Jeff Kleiner]

Why do any of us need more power in these cars ;)

Most don't, except for chest thumping!

Jeff

[Doc76]

Echoing what Craig said; unless you’re running drag slicks and shocking it with 5,000RPM clutch dumps you aren’t going to hurt it. Traction (or the lack thereof) will be your fuse.

Now with that said, considering all of the changes you are considering making to this car (engine, trans, rear gearing, brakes, cooling system...) I have to suggest that by the time that you factor in what the upgrades are going to cost in both materials and labor you might be better off financially to sell it as it is and shop for one that is already built more to your end goal. Just something you might want to give some serious consideration to.

Jeff

Hey Jeff
Yes definitely something I have considered for sure many times.
The issue comes down to availability for the car I was looking for. I’n my neck of the woods finding the car that’s just right is pretty much not going to happen. I looked for 10 years. In BC Canada these cars are extremely rare. Most of them have been mish-mashed together and I mean mish-mashed in the worst ways possible.
The ones that haven’t been are Mk3 or older (not interested) and or pushing $125,000 Canadian.
I was able to get my car for an acceptable price (less than half that) and have a clean driver that still allowed me to use my shop for other projects.

I did price out building one and I would still have been further behind building from scratch not to mention plugging up my shop for 2-3 years (not a lot of time on my hands)
I needed a driver that was suitable for driving and that I can pick away at…..so here I am :)

Having said that I am going to swap the rear brakes to disc, change the gears to 3.73, and upgrade the cooling system and just drive it for a bit (provided my head gasket tests ok).
My understanding is it’ll be night and day 3.73 vs the 3.08 that are innit now

[rich grsc]

And then when you go to a more powerful HP engine, you'll switch the gears again to 3:55, or 3:31's. JMHO after owning one, or more for close to 20yrs..

[Doc76]

And then when you go to a more powerful HP engine, you'll switch the gears again to 3:55, or 3:31's. JMHO after owning one, or more for close to 20yrs..

Perhaps
Gears are one of those hotly debated topics.
Really seems it entirely depends who one asks.
Why do you suggest 3.55?

[Jeff Kleiner]

You can't just throw a blanket statement at this topic. The rear end ratio question is highly dependent on which transmission is in it and it's ratios. A Mustang spec "World Class" T-5 has a 3.35:1 first gear and a .68:1 fifth. Combining this with a 3.55 rear end results in an 11.89:1 overall reduction in first and a fifth gear overall of 2.41. That's a really short first gear but useable fifth. That same trans with a 3.73 rear end results in 12.49:1 overall in first...great for yanking stumps in the back 40 but becoming almost useless on a street driven car (you'll be reaching for 2nd gear before you get across an intersection!). The T5-Z has a 2.95:1 first gear which when coupled with a 3.55 rear creates an overall of 10.47:1 which in my opinion is just about ideal. It's .63:1 fifth gear results in an overall of 2.23:1 which is still good for highway cruising. The 3.73 rear with the T5-Z's 2.95 first gear computes to 11.00:1 and fifth becomes 2.34:1. This is good on both ends! As you can see a 3.73 rear that isn't really so good with a Mustang spec T5 can work really well with the T5-Z, as can a 3.55 rear. So the answer to your question of what rear end ratio to use hinges on the answer to the question of "Which transmission do you have?"

Jeff

[Rebostar]

I went with a 351 stroked to 427 in front of a TKX. Its the second time I built this engine. (first one went ina 47Merc) Way more power than you can use. The TKX was 3K all in from Summit. I'm into the engine 10K. I bought the block locally and had it machined, then got a stroker kit from Scat. The rest of the engine parts came from Summit. I built the engine saving about 8K.

204479204480

[Rebostar]

As a new cobra owner, why do you want, or think you can handle 500 HP? You can't just put new bigger, stronger axles in without changing the center section.

The correct question is: Why NOT more power?

[rich grsc]

The correct question is: Why NOT more power?
Well if you have little experience with high horsepower, this is NOT the car to learn in, so it is a VERY logical question. Even 300 hp can be more than some can handle in these cars. I had one or another for almost 20 years, from a bone stock 5.0 240 hp to a 331 just over 400hp. They can turn evil in a blink of an eye, and if you don't understand that, you are going to be in trouble, quickly

[Doc76]

Well if you have little experience with high horsepower, this is NOT the car to learn in, so it is a VERY logical question. Even 300 hp can be more than some can handle in these cars. I had one or another for almost 20 years, from a bone stock 5.0 240 hp to a 331 just over 400hp. They can turn evil in a blink of an eye, and if you don't understand that, you are going to be in trouble, quickly

Actually Rich it’s quite the opposite. It’s quite illogical as at no point did I say I didn’t have experience with high horsepower cars. I HAVE said however I have little experience with FFR Cobras which is why I joined this forum. Always heard great things about the support which is why I am asking the questions…..to learn all about them as our build books are somewhat vague in spots.
My last car was a 2013 C6 with 600hp, the one before that, a 1946 Chev pickup with a 350 (not overly powerful….etc.), also a 1972 Chevy C10 factory 402 camper special/700r4 with 4.11’s (that ones still in the shop but don’t drive it much, it was my dads. That one will not leave the family while I am above ground)….you can see where I am going with this.
I’d really appreciate positive feedback or none at all.
So feel free not to comment.

Kindly

[gbranham]

Actually Rich it’s quite the opposite. It’s quite illogical as at no point did I say I didn’t have experience with high horsepower cars. I HAVE said however I have little experience with FFR Cobras which is why I joined this forum. Always heard great things about the support which is why I am asking the questions…..to learn all about them as our build books are somewhat vague in spots.
My last car was a 2013 C6 with 600hp, the one before that, a 1946 Chev pickup with a 350 (not overly powerful….etc.), also a 1972 Chevy C10 factory 402 camper special/700r4 with 4.11’s (that ones still in the shop but don’t drive it much)….you can see where I am going with this.
I’d really appreciate positive feedback or none at all.
So feel free not to comment.

Kindly

That's Rich...not a gentleman through and through. Ignore him...I certainly do. Lots of great knowledge, but his troll tendencies get in the way. I feel you on the C6/C7 Corvette. I've had 4...C6 Coupe, C6 Grand Sport, C7 Grand Sport, and most recently, a mildly-built C7 Z06. It made around 730FWHP, and with a manual 7-speed, it was great, but I never turned off the nannies. In my MkIV, I know I'll have to greatly respect this kind of HP, but I want to replicate the instant low-RPM torque of the C7Z.

Greg

[narly1]

My motor selection process followed a vastly different thought process than most.

Building the actual engine for myself was a bucket list goal. So to that end I went with a stock 302 roller block, crank and rods as the starting point. Boy did I learn a lot.

Everything from there was picked for reliability and driveability with a little bling and performance thrown into the mix. My guess is ~ 350 hp at the crank maybe more, based on similar builds.

Another aspect was the admission to myself that I'm not getting any younger and that a lower power to weight ratio might better serve me in the years ahead.

Earl

[Doc76]

That's Rich...not a gentleman through and through. Ignore him...I certainly do. Lots of great knowledge, but his troll tendencies get in the way. I feel you on the C6/C7 Corvette. I've had 4...C6 Coupe, C6 Grand Sport, C7 Grand Sport, and most recently, a mildly-built C7 Z06. It made around 730FWHP, and with a manual 7-speed, it was great, but I never turned off the nannies. In my MkIV, I know I'll have to greatly respect this kind of HP, but I want to replicate the instant low-RPM torque of the C7Z.

Greg

Ya x2 on needing more!
The car is everything I hoped it to be. Raw.
But a stock 302 does it no justice at all. Took me all of about 15min to get used to it.
Now the power is great for my wife, but the C10 with the 402 feels like it’s just got more jam. And that ain’t right ;)
What’s more, I have a wife that supports anything she can do to keep me off my street bikes. LOL and I am too old for that anyways

[StangRacer]

Ya x2 on needing more!
The car is everything I hoped it to be. Raw.
But a stock 302 does it no justice at all. Took me all of about 15min to get used to it.
Now the power is great for my wife, but the C10 with the 402 feels like it’s just got more jam. And that ain’t right ;)
What’s more, I have a wife that supports anything she can do to keep me off my street bikes. LOL and I am too old for that anyways

How much power are you looking for?

The 600 hp Vette you mentioned earlier has a power to weight ratio of about 5.5hp/lb. In order to equal that with the FFR you only have to make around 420 hp. There are many ways to achieve that amount of power with the Ford Windsor platform depending upon how much maintenance you are willing to do, what characteristics you want from the engine, and what you have for a budget.

[Doc76]

How much power are you looking for?

The 600 hp Vette you mentioned earlier has a power to weight ratio of about 5.5hp/lb. In order to equal that with the FFR you only have to make around 420 hp. There are many ways to achieve that amount of power with the Ford Windsor platform depending upon how much maintenance you are willing to do, what characteristics you want from the engine, and what you have for a budget.

It’ll probably be a 347/TKX in the mid-to-high-400hp range that wins out for many reasons.

[Fman]

I went Dart 427 stroker with a TK0600 (TKX not avail when I built my car), now have 6500 miles on the car with Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 EFI. It has been a fun engine to have in this car, you definitely need to be in the right frame of mind to open it up and drop the hammer. It is a lot of engine to handle and you need to be smart with your right foot. If you are not on a budget I would recommend this setup, it is not the cheapest route to go. I have never driven a 347 but many guys who run them are very satisfied and they are less expensive than a 427 stroker. Also, the factory 5 radiator has no problems cooling a 500+HP 427.

[Doc76]

I went Dart 427 stroker with a TK0600 (TKX not avail when I built my car), now have 6500 miles on the car with Edelbrock Pro Flo 4 EFI. It has been a fun engine to have in this car, you definitely need to be in the right frame of mind to open it up and drop the hammer. It is a lot of engine to handle and you need to be smart with your right foot. If you are not on a budget I would recommend this setup, it is not the cheapest route to go. I have never driven a 347 but many guys who run them are very satisfied and they are less expensive than a 427 stroker. Also, the factory 5 radiator has no problems cooling a 500+HP 427.

What do you think you’re into your power plant/tranny for $ wise?

[GoDadGo]

What about going with a 363 SBF using a Dart Block?

The 4.125 bore unshrouds the valves and the 3.4 stroke is still happy to rev.
Here's an old but still very relevant video done by Hot Rod over a decade ago.
Going down this path won't be cheap, but it will be the same foot print as your 302.

https://youtu.be/V96-AQ1FghI

NOTE: The Las Vegas Drag Strip Is Nearly 2000 Feet Above Sea Level!

https://smedingperformance.com/products/363-cobra?variant=11963523104804&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2021-07-12&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw6c63BhAiEiwAF0EH1FSaSAoBEAFRo97Ox5cy HPUflSBxbWn86T8bmgQAOByzmSAnIvv8iRoCX-IQAvD_BwE

Good Luck & Happy Wrenching!

[CraigS]

Don't forget that, w/ the proper mindset, building, changing, maybe even rebuilding can be a ton of fun. Certainly more fun than just buying a completed car.

[Doc76]

How much power are you looking for?

The 600 hp Vette you mentioned earlier has a power to weight ratio of about 5.5hp/lb. In order to equal that with the FFR you only have to make around 420 hp. There are many ways to achieve that amount of power with the Ford Windsor platform depending upon how much maintenance you are willing to do, what characteristics you want from the engine, and what you have for a budget.


It’ll probably be a 347/TKX in the mid-to-high-400hp range that wins out for many reasons.
It was .187hp/lb and yes your right, low +400hp would be about the same power to weight in our Cobra as I have had in previous cars so nothing new for me. I’d prefer to be up in the 500hp range but in the 347 my understanding is that’s pushing the envelope and in a 427 that’s pushing my bank account……happy wife, happy life ;)

5.5hp/lb in my 3200lb vette would have netted +17,000hp….I wish lol
I’m guessing you mean 5.5lb/hp?

[Etraugott]

First i would set myself a realistic budget. Its easy for others to spend your money on what they would buy.


More HP is generally going to cost more money.
Do you have a HP goal? Minimum or maximum?

On the rear gear i would do some calculations on final drive numbers.
If you plan on cruising some distance the 3.73 may not be as desirable as it seems for cruising. This is a very light car with a short tire it dont take much to get it moving.

[Doc76]

First i would set myself a realistic budget. Its easy for others to spend your money on what they would buy.


More HP is generally going to cost more money.
Do you have a HP goal? Minimum or maximum?

On the rear gear i would do some calculations on final drive numbers.
If you plan on cruising some distance the 3.73 may not be as desirable as it seems for cruising. This is a very light car with a short tire it dont take much to get it moving.
For sure thanks for the feedback
Min 400hp and don’t personally need more than 500hp
I don’t and will never cruise more than 1 hr or so. That’s my driving habits and desire.
I’m not into road trips but rather ripping around.
Pretty sure my only deciding factor personally will be budget.

[StangRacer]

It was .187hp/lb and yes your right, low +400hp would be about the same power to weight in our Cobra as I have had in previous cars so nothing new for me. I’d prefer to be up in the 500hp range but in the 347 my understanding is that’s pushing the envelope and in a 427 that’s pushing my bank account……happy wife, happy life ;)

5.5hp/lb in my 3200lb vette would have netted +17,000hp….I wish lol
I’m guessing you mean 5.5lb/hp?

yes, I meant lb/hp...

To make 450 hp with a 347 should be relatively easy and not too much of a budget killer. If you are going to do this in a stock block don't waste money with a forged crank and heavy rods as the block will break before the crank and/or rods. The Mahle "PowerPak" pistons come with a nice ring package and are also budget friendly. Get the compression up to 10:1 - 10.5:1 and top it off with a decent set of heads, an Edelbrock Performer RPM dual plane intake with 750 Holley and you are 95% there... call Mark Chacon at Bullet Cams and have a custom cam ground and you will have your 450 hp without breaking the bank.

[Doc76]

yes, I meant lb/hp...

To make 450 hp with a 347 should be relatively easy and not too much of a budget killer. If you are going to do this in a stock block don't waste money with a forged crank and heavy rods as the block will break before the crank and/or rods. The Mahle "PowerPak" pistons come with a nice ring package and are also budget friendly. Get the compression up to 10:1 - 10.5:1 and top it off with a decent set of heads, an Edelbrock Performer RPM dual plane intake with 750 Holley and you are 95% there... call Mark Chacon at Bullet Cams and have a custom cam ground and you will have your 450 hp without breaking the bank.

That’s fantastic info
Thank you for taking the time to lay that out.

What are your thoughts on spending the money on a Dart block when doing a 347?
My understanding is the block is the weak link and the upcharge for the Dart seems minor in the grand scheme

[BUDFIVE]

X2 on 347 for 450ish hp. I used the Mahle PowerPak pistons for just over 10.5:1, AFR CNC Renegade heads, custom Bullet cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap, and QFT 650 to hit 450 hp. I did spend the coin on an internally balanced forged crank and rods which is probably overkill as Stangracer suggested. I used the PowerPaks in 2 motors in summer 2023–only problem is the damn wire locks-my fingers still hurt :)

[StangRacer]

That’s fantastic info
Thank you for taking the time to lay that out.

What are your thoughts on spending the money on a Dart block when doing a 347?
My understanding is the block is the weak link and the upcharge for the Dart seems minor in the grand scheme

I really like Dart blocks. The only real difference between the Iron Eagle and SHP is the Iron Eagle has 4 bolts on all five mains where the SHP only has 4 bolts on the center three mains. There are some differences in oiling provisions that really only make the Iron Eagle advantageous when using a dry sump system. The Iron Eagle also comes set up where you can restrict the oil to the top end but this could easily be done with a SHP if needed. Once you build engines with Dart blocks you will never want to go back to stock blocks. I just finished building a short block for a fellow road racer last week that used a stock block with a girdle and HATED every minute of it. The girdle got in the way of everything. I must have had it on and off at least 20 times while measuring the main bearing clearances. He didn't appreciate it when I told him the only thing the girdle does is holds the block together when it splits...

The FRPP Boss blocks are nice too. The knock on them is they have shorter cylinders so the pistons come out of cylinders more at the bottom of the stroke and can cause the piston to lose stability. This is not an issue if you have a piston designed with the correct break point. If you find a good deal on a FRPP Boss block I would not shy away from it due to the shorter cylinders...

The World Products blocks are nice too. I have never used one, so I can't comment with personal experience, but they look good on paper.

If you are going to step up to one of these blocks, then I would suggest going with a forged internally balanced crankshaft. When spending this kind of money stick with either an ATI balancer or one from Innovators West. I would still stay away from the heavy rods and look for a reasonable lightweight I-beam rod. Again, the Mahle "PowerPak" pistons would be a good choice. They have a 1mm/1mm/2mm ring pack and are made of 4032. 4032 is a better material for a street engine as it allows you to run tighter piston to wall clearance and will maintain ring seal for a longer period of time. However, 4032 is more susceptible to be damaged if you get into detonation.

Any 190 cc volume runner cylinder head should be able to easily achieve your horsepower goal with a custom ground cam and 10:1 - 10.5:1 compression. I really like the TFS Twisted Wedge heads. They are advertised as a 170 cc runner but the intake valve is closer to the intake side of the head, so the runner is shorter. It has the cross section of a normal 20-degree 185-190 cc head. The thing I really like about the TFS Twisted Wedge is it has a very efficient chamber, so you don't have to run a bunch of timing. Usually, 30 degrees total will make the most power. In addition, the TFS head has flatter valve angles which helps with piston to valve clearance. Keep the quench tight, around .040 or even .035 if you don't rev it over 6500 rpm, and you may be able to get away with 11:1 on 93 pump gas if you keep the AFR around 12.8 - 13.0.

[Fman]

What do you think you’re into your power plant/tranny for $ wise?

I built my car back in 2021, I believe the transmission, engine w/power steering was around $22k with the PF4 EFI induction. Not sure what that equates to in today's dollars. My engine was built by a local engine builder close to where I live.

[Doc76]

I built my car back in 2021, I believe the transmission, engine w/power steering was around $22k with the PF4 EFI induction. Not sure what that equates to in today's dollars. My engine was built by a local engine builder close to where I live.

I’m in the process of weeding through several engine builders locally.
Sourcing a crate setup out of the USA is simply too expensive with the exchange rate for us up here.
It’s a learning curve.
AI is proving to be a powerful tool for analyzing a proposed build sheet. Not sure if anyone else here uses it but I use AI for increasing amounts of data analysis. Saves hours of Googling :)

[ProfessorB]

It is coming time to select a new motor and tranny package and I was hoping for some feedback on this decision process.
For starters I had to buy a runner due to time and resources in case anyone is wondering why I didn’t just build a car….trust me I would have loved to and perhaps at some point after retirement I may do so, but buying a runner was my best bet.
My cars a 2012 mk4 completed in 2018 with a “freshen’d up” 302/T5. Totally built on a budget. Based on findings I am sure the freshen’d up comment is extremely loose. It’s clean but that’s about it.
There are several things done not quite right from the braking system to the cooling system and I am looking to make a decision on whether to go 347/TKX or 351w-based 427/TKX while I drop the rearend and change gears and convert the rear to disc.
I have a FFR radiator, Breeze shroud (upper and lower), Breeze rad mounts (upper and lower) and a Flexlite Lowboy fan waiting to go in.

I have spoken to FFR who confirmed both motor options will work in my chassis without modification with the exception of the headers in the 427 application. They said the headers would need to be swapped out too along with an upgraded fuel system?

To my understanding this will work but hoping you guys can connect dots I am undoubtedly missing along with things to consider

Thanks in advance

Quote: "But buying a runner was my best bet"
.
That is absolutely TRUE! It is sad, it is ironic, but it is true. Building a car has become expensive....ESPECIALLY the paint and body work. In my own case, I could build the car competently but NOT the body work. I was lucky, I looked for a while and found a low mileage well-built Mark II with a 427W and TKX. Beautiful paint and all the upgrades I wanted with none of the upgrades I didn't. Ironically, it would have cost me twice as much to build it as I paid for it. Of course there is a downside to it. Firstly, I don't know the car inside out. I have to acclimate myself to the car as I address issues whenever they arrise. And also, I don't have quite that feeling of pride and joy and satisfaction that comes with building your own from the ground up. But the "sum of the parts" is more than the value of the whole. I just could not afford my car if I had to build it. Irionic, to say the least.

[Doc76]

Quote: "But buying a runner was my best bet"
.
That is absolutely TRUE! It is sad, it is ironic, but it is true. Building a car has become expensive....ESPECIALLY the paint and body work. In my own case, I could build the car competently but NOT the body work. I was lucky, I looked for a while and found a low mileage well-built Mark II with a 427W and TKX. Beautiful paint and all the upgrades I wanted with none of the upgrades I didn't. Ironically, it would have cost me twice as much to build it as I paid for it. Of course there is a downside to it. Firstly, I don't know the car inside out. I have to acclimate myself to the car as I address issues whenever they arrise. And also, I don't have quite that feeling of pride and joy and satisfaction that comes with building your own from the ground up. But the "sum of the parts" is more than the value of the whole. I just could not afford my car if I had to build it. Irionic, to say the least.

Yes I did the math over and over and it was crazy that I could buy the car for the price of the parts.
Now yes, there are a lot of other things to consider but I mean for a person on limited time, resources, etc, it really only makes sense to buy a runner if you can find the right one.
As I said, I’m sure after retirement I’ll build one but that’s 10-15 years away.