Moving firewall forward and powder coat

[Wingman06]

I just got my kit and so far I have completed my inventory and put bed liner on the underside of the body. I plan on moving on to the the tins next. I'm going to move the firewall forward 3". It seems logical to me to do it now while everything is in place and I can mock it up completely before sending it off to powder coat. Should anyone present know of any reason that this idea will not work, please speak now or forever hold your peace.

Along with that, any advice from those who have gone the powder coat route would be greatly appreciated.

[Mike.Bray]

I used this forward firewall.

https://www.ffmetal.com/index.html#prods

[toadster]

I used this forward firewall.

https://www.ffmetal.com/index.html#prods

yup FFMetal part is great - gives some much needed space, but doesn't kill the engine bay space either ;)

[Mike.Bray]

yup FFMetal part is great - gives some much needed space, but doesn't kill the engine bay space either ;)

And it's thicker than the FFR supplied one.

[Jim1855]

I moved mine forward 2". Using the kit supplied firewall for prototype work, will then build a new one...someday.
Jim

[rich grsc]

I don't think it can be moved forward 3", 1.5" is fine.

[rustyrim]

if you move it more than 2 1/4 inches the windshield wipers will not fit.

[JMD]

You may have some fitment issues if you're running a heater. I have the ffmetal firewall forward and also pushed the heater out about an inch to make space to fit a glove box and it was getting snug with the 302. In all it's about 2.5" more forward than where it would be with stock firewall. Fits ok, just a bit tighter to the valve covers than I would have liked. You probably won't be able to run the heater hoses down. I'm routing mine out to the side and behind the fender. You could probably find a way to make it work though.

[Wingman06]

Good to know, I'll keep it under 2". Any advice from those who did powder coating. What are the gotcha's?

[edwardb]

Any advice from those who did powder coating. What are the gotcha's?

Nothing mysterious about it. Most common practice is to fit and drill all the panels, remove, do the powder coating, then permanently mount in the prescribed order. You may have to clear some of the holes slightly but no big deal. There are often discussions about how much to powder coat, e.g. "only those panels that show." That's a matter of personal preference more than anything else IMO. There are literally only a handful of panels that are completely buried. Most can be seen from the engine side, wheel wells, underside, etc. Just depends on what you want. For my builds, I powder coat them all. There's only a couple hundred dollar difference between selective and all. Small percentage of the overall budget and IMO adds to a quality build. One major hint -- limit the number of batches you take to the powder coater. It's possible to work ahead enough to take everything in one batch. That will give you the best price. The more times they have to set up, change colors, bake etc. the price goes up.

[danmas]

You may have some fitment issues if you're running a heater. I have the ffmetal firewall forward and also pushed the heater out about an inch to make space to fit a glove box and it was getting snug with the 302. In all it's about 2.5" more forward than where it would be with stock firewall. Fits ok, just a bit tighter to the valve covers than I would have liked. You probably won't be able to run the heater hoses down. I'm routing mine out to the side and behind the fender. You could probably find a way to make it work though.

Do you have a picture of this? I have the ffmetal firewall and plan on putting in the heater as well.

[Rebostar]

I welded a 2x2 angle to the top of the 2x2 frame overlaping it by 1/4" and added 4 triangle braces underneath. This gave me an added 1.75" of usable space. I used the FFR firewall as a template to cut a new firewall out of 1/8" 2024 T3. Then I cut the bottom 2" off to allow for the raised 2x2 angle and trimmed an 1/8" off the top radius to allow for the lower profile caused by moving it forward.

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EDIT: No Heater or Windshield Wipers!

[JMD]

Do you have a picture of this? I have the ffmetal firewall and plan on putting in the heater as well.

I got my inspiration from GTBradley, who did this on his build. In retrospect I would have located the heater about 1" further toward the passenger side as the heater outlet wound up a bit too close to my valve cover. I bent it down and to the right so I could stack the heater hoses on top of each other and remove the valve cover in future if needed. Probably the ugliest part of my build and I would definitely do it a bit differently next time. (I did dress it up after this pic so the finished product looks better.) Sure learned a lot though and the back of the heater touching the glove box does add some rigidity to it, which is nice.

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[JMD]

I welded a 2x2 angle to the top of the 2x2 frame overlaping it by 1/4" and added 4 triangle braces underneath. This gave me an added 1.75" of usable space. I used the FFR firewall as a template to cut a new firewall out of 1/8" 2024 T3. Then I cut the bottom 2" off to allow for the raised 2x2 angle and trimmed an 1/8" off the top radius to allow for the lower profile caused by moving it forward.

202756202757202758202759202760

EDIT: No Heater or Windshield Wipers!

That seems like a lot of work compared to just installing the FFR firewall...for about the same result. Super cool and it looks great, but why not just use the FFR piece?

[rich grsc]

Clean up the engine bay making it look better, and you aren't sucking engine fumes into the passenger compartment.

[J R Jones]

Facing the similar challenge with my 1929 Mercedes SSK roadster project I set two objectives before design.
I preferred the blower under the dash for two reasons. It does not get hot and it would not suck air out of the engine compartment.
The heater core is on the engine side of the firewall so that coolant circulated heat does not radiate into the cockpit.
jim

[phileas_fogg]

For those of you installing a heater with your firewall forward, be advised that the template provided with the Vintage Air heater is placed differently than for the standard firewall. Double check both the placement AND the accuracy of your template; I had to adjust the holes for the inlet & outlet ~1/4” or so.

Also, watch for interference between the 90* elbows and the valve covers. Mine interfered, so I cut the inlet & outlet shorter (be sure to offset the cuts & make the long cut first!), and used a flare tool (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000A8FTIU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) to put a bead around the pipe end for the hose clamp to grab onto. Then I used rubber 90* hoses to avoid the valve covers.

I would have liked a more pronounced bead, but after 4000 miles no leaks or slips.


John

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189117&d=1692562468

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189114&d=1692562356

[Rebostar]

That seems like a lot of work compared to just installing the FFR firewall...for about the same result. Super cool and it looks great, but why not just use the FFR piece?

I happen to have had a 2x4 sheet of .125 aircraft 2024 T3. A fire wall is just that, a FIRE WALL. I'd rather not have a .040 piece of aluminum between me and an engine fire when I have options. Also I wanted the wiring to drop straight down and not poke through the firewall as FFR has it. I try to keep all my fire walls as clean as i can.

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[gbranham]

Nothing mysterious about it. Most common practice is to fit and drill all the panels, remove, do the powder coating, then permanently mount in the prescribed order. You may have to clear some of the holes slightly but no big deal. There are often discussions about how much to powder coat, e.g. "only those panels that show." That's a matter of personal preference more than anything else IMO. There are literally only a handful of panels that are completely buried. Most can be seen from the engine side, wheel wells, underside, etc. Just depends on what you want. For my builds, I powder coat them all. There's only a couple hundred dollar difference between selective and all. Small percentage of the overall budget and IMO adds to a quality build. One major hint -- limit the number of batches you take to the powder coater. It's possible to work ahead enough to take everything in one batch. That will give you the best price. The more times they have to set up, change colors, bake etc. the price goes up.

x2. I was only going to PC the engine bay visible panels, but my powdercoater convinced me simply do everything...it was only a few hundred dollars more. I drilled everything first, then installed in order. I also had to clear a few holes, but no big deal. If I build another some day, I'll do the same again.

[Avalanche325]

I initially put my blower on the passenger compartment side of the firewall. Turned it on. It was crazy loud. I ripped it out and it went in the engine bay.

The engine bay isn't full of fumes unless you forget to install the headers.

[JMD]

I happen to have had a 2x4 sheet of .125 aircraft 2024 T3. A fire wall is just that, a FIRE WALL. I'd rather not have a .040 piece of aluminum between me and an engine fire when I have options. Also I wanted the wiring to drop straight down and not poke through the firewall as FFR has it. I try to keep all my fire walls as clean as i can.

My mistake. I typed FFR when I meant the FFMetal firewall forward. I have the firewall forward and highly recommend it to everyone because it's a much better piece, at least twice as thick and you can hide the wires SO much better than with the stock firewall. It's one of my favorite upgrades. My question was why go to the trouble to fabricate your own (it seems like a lot of work) when you can buy and install the FFMetal firewall forward, which is a very nice piece for a reasonable price. Maybe it wasn't a big deal to you, but I think for most of us purchasing one makes more sense given the time, resources and skill it would take to make one yourself.