Electric power steering

[ThickCobra]

Has anyone installed electric power steering on the Mark IVs. If so, was it more difficult to install? If not, is it a cost issue?

[steno]

Jay, I thought you had power steering already.

[Rebostar]

Has anyone installed electric power steering on the Mark IVs. If so, was it more difficult to install? If not, is it a cost issue?

epowersteering.com About $850 delivered. Recommend adding an aditional support and welding the mount to the frame. I mounted the controler reostat under the dash to the left of the steering wheel on the 2x2. I had to drop the control box 2" to clear the LH hood gas tube see last pic.

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[95050JohnR]

I'm curious about this as well since I chose to go with the epowersteering too. Rebostar - do you have any other nuggets of information and/or pics of your installation?

[Rebostar]

I'm curious about this as well since I chose to go with the epowersteering too. Rebostar - do you have any other nuggets of information and/or pics of your installation?

Probably the most important change from the instructions is to weld the support fitting to the frame after fitment, then add a verticle support from the 4" tube relieving the stress off the 3/4 frame tube. I agree strongly with the instruction to use heavy gage wire (+&-) direct from the battery, but use a 60 amp circit breaker in the dash area rather than a fuse at the battery. I did not want the control knob on my dash so I mounted it on the 2x2 next to the steering shaft. In addition if you mount the control box like I did, lower it by 2" to clear the LH hood strut. (not pictured here) I had to move it after the fact.

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[ProfessorB]

Having conventional power steering myself, I am curious as to the advantages, drawbacks, or differences of electric vs. hydraulic power steering?

[ThickCobra]

Jay, I thought you had power steering already.

Oh, I’ve been discovered. It’s been a while since I’ve logged on. I sold my cobra a while back and may be looking to build another one. But, based upon someone’s response to my question, I think I’ll stick with a traditional power steering unit.

[edwardb]

Advantages? No hydraulic pump to install including sorting out the accessory drive, no hoses, uses manual vs. power steering rack. Disadvantages? Only the Hot Rod and Truck are supported by Factory Five with mounting and locations. You're on your own with the Roadster. Not sure it's any cheaper. I've had hydraulic on multiple builds and electric on my Truck build. I didn't care for the electric. I didn't like the feel of it and especially that it didn't center well. I've heard this same comment from others. Your experience might vary including with a different unit than what Factory Five supplied.

[Rebostar]

Having conventional power steering myself, I am curious as to the advantages, drawbacks, or differences of electric vs. hydraulic power steering?

For me it was two fold. Folks here convinced me to get power steering based mainly on the castor setting for manual vs power steering 3' vs 7'. This, after I had the manual rack ordered with my kit. When I looked into converting to a power rack I could not find a pump/pulley system that would clear the steering shaft on my 351W stroker and would have enough flow rate and pressure for the power rack. The Ford and Saginaw pumps would fit the Windsor but had the issues above. The only solution was using a more modern pump, but then I had fitment issues for the Windsor and it looked like crap. Then there was the prices of all the components. The epowersteering was half the cost of upgrading to a power rack and pump, nevermind I thought it was butt ugly.
Another builder here in Oregon used another brand of electric steering and I liked the idea. Set the castor to 7' per the manual for the highway and roll off the assist. For slow driving or in a parking lot, roll it full on and no wrestling the steering wheel. Seemed like a good way to go

Happy Trails

[F500guy]

I am the Oregon Builder that went with EPAS system. Having the un-cluttered front of the engine and easier with a higher caster number for the short wheel base car sold me. I love the EPAS on my Miata, so thought that would carry over. I do believe it was more work, some fabrication needed for the mounting and steering parts, so if you do not have that access it would be difficult. I used a motor sports centric system from DCE that has more torque and a different set up than the other system mentioned and has a speed input to automatically reduce force at your selected speed . I felt it necessary to support the system beyond the what the epowersteering system had and my system did not come with any mounts, so I had to make my own hence more fab work. So far 15 miles on my go-kart and I could not be happier. Ask me after a year of driving a completed car. Details in my build thread. As far as the self centering issue mentioned, that is common on my Miata as well, IMHO it is a non-issue on the track or the street.

[ThickCobra]

Thanks, great feedback all.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...I didn't care for the electric. I didn't like the feel of it and especially that it didn't center well. I've heard this same comment from others...

I agree with Paul. I've had several cars come through the shop with EPAS. They were fine for moving about the property and in or out of the shop bays however I recently had one here that included some work that required driving it at speed on the road. What I found was that it did not self center, even with a verified 8 degrees of positive caster and 3/32" toe in. When moving the wheel off of straight ahead---5, 10, 15 degrees---that's where it would stay until I actually made an effort to move it back. With hydraulic I'm used to the wheel wanting to return to center on it's own with that much caster.

Jeff

[95050JohnR]

... but use a 60 amp circit breaker in the dash area rather than a fuse at the battery...

Thanks for all the feedback/comments. Did you find that you were popping fuses thus the recommendation of a breaker (or was this just a precaution)?

[J R Jones]

I had a 2010 Acura TL with "super handling" AWD. The computers managed wheel spin but I found they came up short on EPS steering.
Feeling confident turning onto a familiar expressway ramp in the rain, I pushed too hard and started to understeer. The indication was not through the steering wheel which felt fine, not unloaded. The front end was going straight off the turn. No damage done but I learned that I could not rely on steering wheel feedback. BTW Acura had the return to center figured out, no complaint there.
jim

[CraigS]

I think there is some variation in the EPAS systems. I can imagine that the ones available to the aftermarket are not the latest tech. Roadtests of street cars when EPAS first came out generally mentioned the dead on center feel. Also in addition to what ever mechanical affects the EPAS may have there is also the electronic tuning that is chosen. Tuning the steering feel in a Honda Pilot, the engineers are going to be looking for a substantial difference from the EPAS in my 2019 Stingray. The Stingray has the best steering I have ever driven. I even notice a difference from my wife's 2015 Mustang GT w/ Performance Package. BTW unfortunately Fast Freddie isn't selling kits any more, but there is another option for some. An electric pump to provide pressure to a standard hydraulic assist rack. You would have to search to see if anyone is offering this type system. I think he was using a pump from a Toyota MR2. It made sense from the oem perspective, rack in the front, engine in the back, so a traditional PS pump would need some long hoses to get pressure to the rack.

[SJDave]

A Mark 3.1 but here's my review of the Speedworks 520 (or EPower Steering System) .

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?45534-Easy-motor-support-for-E-Power-Steering-system&highlight=sjdave

[ThickCobra]

I agree with Paul. I've had several cars come through the shop with EPAS. They were fine for moving about the property and in or out of the shop bays however I recently had one here that included some work that required driving it at speed on the road. What I found was that it did not self center, even with a verified 8 degrees of positive caster and 3/32" toe in. When moving the wheel off of straight ahead---5, 10, 15 degrees---that's where it would stay until I actually made an effort to move it back. With hydraulic I'm used to the wheel wanting to return to center on it's own with that much caster.

Jeff

Thanks for the feedback. That's why I like this forum.

[Rebostar]

Thanks for all the feedback/comments. Did you find that you were popping fuses thus the recommendation of a breaker (or was this just a precaution)?

I dont have any fuse's in my car. All CB's. Its an aviation thing. Cant stop at the curb and swap out a fuse while flying. If it pop's at a high setting, I can dial it down then re-set the CB after a couple minutes of cool down.

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[95050JohnR]

I dont have any fuse's in my car. All CB's. Its an aviation thing. Cant stop at the curb and swap out a fuse while flying. If it pop's at a high setting, I can dial it down then re-set the CB after a couple minutes of cool down.


That makes perfect sense....thanks for the heads up.

SJDave - Thanks for linking your review. Where in Santa Clara are you? I'm in Santa Clara too (El Camino/San Tomas).

[SJDave]

That makes perfect sense....thanks for the heads up.

SJDave - Thanks for linking your review. Where in Santa Clara are you? I'm in Santa Clara too (El Camino/San Tomas).

Hey John, I'm just off San Tomas at Pruneridge.....left on Pruneridge, right on Cypress Ave....125. Are you building now or just planning your kit?? Your welcome to stop by, go for a drive...whatever. I'll PM you my Cell phone. Cheers, Dave

[Theshandman]

...What I found was that it did not self center, even with a verified 8 degrees of positive caster and 3/32" toe in. When moving the wheel off of straight ahead---5, 10, 15 degrees---that's where it would stay until I actually made an effort to move it back.
Jeff

That's exactly what I have going on with my EPAS (epowersteering.com) with same castor and toe. Definitely requires both hands on at all times (why wouldn't you?) and minimal (if any) sight seeing at speed.

[ehansen007]

Hey all,

I actually worked with Ken at electricpowersteering.com to develop this kit. Yes, it struggles to self center but one benefit that came out of this is that is also seemed to eliminate bump steer! The kits work only with Small Block Fords though as the coyote was too big. I never got that much further with it before I sold my 289 but during that short time I mentioned to Ken that the reostat settings were not that great for such a light car i.e. it's either on or off. What is great though is that you can turn it off on the FWY if you want as well which you can't do with HPS. So trade offs for sure. I'd also make sure that you keep it in a well ventilated area and maybe even add a heat sink to it if mounting in the engine compartment. It will get hot. I did also make a brace with some ball joints and threaded rod for John Tongish's car and he tracks his pretty regularly and I think it's still going after 5 or more years. Anywho, I designed this two piece bracket and looking forward to trying it on my next car!

-e

[Norm B]

Just curious. I have the old fashion mustang power steering with the cut spring mod. Car drives great and the steering centres without issue.
My question is, how do the supplied manual racks hold up with the increased caster and, effectively, the 800lb gorilla added at the steering wheel by electric power steering? Any early failures?

Norm