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View Full Version : HELP PLEASE! Brake bleeding problems - Hydroboost + Wilwood setup



dbo_texas
07-06-2024, 04:26 PM
I managed to fix 2 issues I had with the brakes - leaking banjo fittings at the master cylinder AND a leaking "tee" joint in the rear. Those issues were detailed on my build thread HERE (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40632-ATX-MKIV-9644-Coyote-Build-Thread-(Index-Post-136)&p=557857&viewfull=1#post557857) but I believe are resolved finally.

After fixing both of those issues, I bench bled the master cylinder again (attached to a hydroboost setup from Forte), then went through Wilwood's recommended bleeding process for the calipers. Started with PS rear outboard upper bleeder, then moved to the inboard upper bleeder. Then did DS rear (both upper bleeders), then PS front (single upper bleeder), then DS front (single upper bleeder). Bleeding each caliper seemed to go smoothly - I had a helper and we did the old school method by cracking the bleeder, depressing the pedal, then closing the bleeder and letting off the pedal slowly. Did this repeatedly until no bubbles on any of the bleeder valves (going one at a time). This method seemed to work a lot better than using the vacuum bleeder kit I had. After just a few pumps on each bleeder, it ran fluid out the bleeder with no more bubbles.

The reservoirs never ran dry during bleeding - I kept filling them as the levels lowered (separate front/rear circuits). All good so far, or so I thought.

After doing all 4 corners, I can still apply pedal pressure and it goes all the way to to floor with not much resistance. I'm not finding leaks anywhere. I went through all the joints and re-tightened them just to make sure. But still no significant pedal pressure. I tried holding pedal pressure for a few minutes, and still no leaks anywhere. Reservoir levels are steady (not dropping with subsequent pedal presses).

What am I missing here? Even with the hydroboost not powered yet (by the power steering pump), shouldn't I still get a firm pedal and NOT be able to press it all the way to the floor? I also checked the calipers and the pistons don't seem to be closing all the way....the pads barely rub the rotor. Do I still have air trapped in the circuits somewhere? Or maybe even the master cylinder still? Any other ideas how to trouble shoot this? I've wasted hours and hours on these damn brakes.....nothing but problems at every step. I'm ready to pull my hair out.

Any suggestions on how to trouble shoot this would be massively appreciated. I'm about ready to throw in the towel and call a professional to help me with this issue.

Here's a pic of my master cylinder setup. The MC & hydroboost are from Forte. I believe he told me it was from a 1999 Chevy pickup truck but I'm not sure what specific master cylinder is mounted to it. If anyone has this specific setup (with Wilwood brakes) I'd love to hear how you went about bleeding and testing the system.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200828&d=1718936099

Wizbangdoodle
07-06-2024, 05:11 PM
Do yourself a favor and buy a pressure bleeder. I just went through this entire scenario and a pressure bleeder makes it a cake walk. I even left my MC's in the car and did not bench bleed them. I don't have the hydro-boost like you do, but I'm pretty sure you'll be a big fan of pressure bleeding after you do it once.

I'll add, once I tried all other forms of bleeding, I pressure bled my brakes in about 20 minutes. So fast and so easy.

dbo_texas
07-06-2024, 05:14 PM
When you pressure bleed do you have to press the pedal at all to open up the ports in the MC? Or just pressurize and crack the bleeder? Also, how do you make sure the MC doesn’t run dry if you have a cap on it and can’t see the levels?

65 Cobra Dude
07-06-2024, 05:24 PM
“Bleeding each caliper seemed to go smoothly - I had a helper and we did the old school method by cracking the bleeder, depressing the pedal, then closing the bleeder and letting off the pedal slowly.“

If this is how you did it, you got the first 2 steps wrong. I do six pumps and hold pedal down with bleeder closed, open bleeder and let air run out. Close bleeder and pump again, holding down pedal and opening bleeder. Make sense?

Henry

cv2065
07-06-2024, 05:26 PM
X2 on the pressure bleeder. You can get a decent one from HF for $99. You don't press the pedal at all, you connect it to a compressor, attach to each caliper bleeder screw and open up the valve. It will suck the fluid through until free of bubbles. You do have to check the MC to make sure it doesn't run dry. I think it ran about 1/2 dry for each corner, so you can refill after each side. You can get some air at the bleeder valve when its pulling it through. Doesn't mean the line is not bled, just might look that way, so I took a tube and small bottle and gravity fed each side afterwards. It was immediate so not a lot of waiting, maybe 5-10 minutes a corner.

Jeff Kleiner
07-06-2024, 07:25 PM
X2 on Henry’s “Old School” method. Geezers like him and me didn’t have any fancy pants pressure bleeders when we learned how to do this stuff :p

Jeff

Mike.Bray
07-06-2024, 07:53 PM
I was having trouble getting a firm pedal, I could tell there was some residual air in the system. It wasn't much but was very stubborn. I let the calipers gravity bleed for several hours, periodically topping off the reservoirs. Then I did a power bleed with this (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mvp-0107). Note, the instructions say to add brake fluid to it, I did it dry and watched my reservoirs to make sure they never ran dry. After this my pedal was rock solid.

dbo_texas
07-06-2024, 11:42 PM
“Bleeding each caliper seemed to go smoothly - I had a helper and we did the old school method by cracking the bleeder, depressing the pedal, then closing the bleeder and letting off the pedal slowly.“

If this is how you did it, you got the first 2 steps wrong. I do six pumps and hold pedal down with bleeder closed, open bleeder and let air run out. Close bleeder and pump again, holding down pedal and opening bleeder. Make sense?

Henry

Thanks for the tips Henry. I figured I was probably doing it wrong. I’ll give your method a try tomorrow and report back.

Wizbangdoodle
07-06-2024, 11:56 PM
When you pressure bleed do you have to press the pedal at all to open up the ports in the MC? Or just pressurize and crack the bleeder? Also, how do you make sure the MC doesn’t run dry if you have a cap on it and can’t see the levels?

I actually made my own pressure bleeder. 3d printed a cap for my mc and added a pressure gauge with a Schrader valve on it. Pressurized to about 15psi and bled one corner. Removed the device and topped off the mc. Repeat for each corner. Did not touch the brake pedal, did not bench bleed the MC's.

David Ferguson
07-07-2024, 12:25 AM
I think you have correctly bled the brakes, but this additional hydro-booster must have a bladder or something that when not energized, doesn't allow a solid pedal (or maybe it needs to be bled). I think that's where your extra pressure is going. Is it possible to remove that and/or cap/block the lines to test that theory?

OK, here is an article about the hydro-boost systems. It mentions a fail safe that might require pumping the pedal a few times to get complete manual operation.

https://www.brakeandfrontend.com/operation-diagnosis-and-repair-of-hydro-boost-power-assist-systems/

dbo_texas
07-07-2024, 05:38 PM
Ok I gave this another go today. I had my 12yr old daughter working the pedal while I worked the bleeder and kept the reservoir full. I ended up getting quite a bit more air out of the system using Henry’s method of pumping several times with the bleeder closed, then holding pedal pressure and cracking the bleeder. Did this several times in each corner until pedal pressure got firm and no more bubbles. I can confirm the pads are gripping the rotors now. Also held firm pedal pressure for 3 minutes and it didn’t soften up, and confirmed no leaks anywhere. I’ll check it again in a few days but this feels like solid progress.

Thanks everyone for the tips!

65 Cobra Dude
07-07-2024, 07:27 PM
Glad we got it figured out Darryl!

Henry