Brakes in the Daytona

[Rian_Colorado]

Setup in my car are the 12.88 Wilwoods (stock pads that came with the kit), front and rear. Wilwood pedal box, .75 master cylinders front and rear (with a balance bar). Running 18" rims with R888 tires. I've bedded in the pads, and the car has about 500 miles on it.

I've been into the brake pedal pretty darn hard, and have yet to lock up either front or rear. It brakes ok, but if I ever have to REALLY jam on it, I'm wondering if there will be enough there?

With that setup, well..... I WISH it was better. I've done enough homework to know that power brakes are almost impossible with the Daytona. I have open ears if someone has an answer for that - but failing that option, what more have others tried?

First step is pads:

I know that some have gone to wilwood BP20 (or even BP30?) pads. I'd love to hear from anyone that's gone that route, and recommendations. I know that they have race pads too?

EBC Yellow stuff pads have also been mentioned. I've used their products before in the Audi world, and they do make a good product. Anyone with experience with them on the WW brake setups?

Anyone with part numbers gets a beer too!

Second step - Changing master cylinders? Has anyone changed them to a different size in order to increase caliper clamping force VIA less effort on the brake pedal?

Other options?
Parachute?? lol

Rian

[Jim1855]

No experience with the Daytona but do have experience with Willwoods.

I did run BP-20s and liked them, they will be my starting pad for this build. The brake kit I received with my Challenge Car (a Levy package) included BP-10s. I've run the BP-10s, nice street pads but I didn't think they were suitable for any track work. The BP-20s changed that and worked well on my previous cars with Willwood 4-piston DynaLites front & rear. Previous cars had power brakes.

From what I recall the BP-20s were dusty.

Jim

[Kbl7td]

Small master. Try .625. Will give a larger pedal throw and feel a little softer with more force.

[Alan_C]

Some have said try Hawk pads, they bite better than the Wilwood pads. There are three levels of performance, bite really with street 5.0, HPS street, and HP plus. On my MK4 with the Ford sourced brakes, I used the street up front and the HPS street in the rear to improve brake bias beyond what the Ford proportioning valve would allow after gutting it to give max pressure to the rear. I used the HP plus on the rear for a while, outstanding bite and really biased the braking to the rear but way too much brake dust. IMO, I would consider the HP plus more of a track pad but if you can live with the dust, a good street pad as you do not have to get them hot to get them to bite hard.
I have ordered a coupe due in August. I am going to do my first manual brake booster car so I have gone with the Wilwood 14" rotors front and rear. I will be interested if you find all you need to do is to use a different pad.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Ultimate braking capacity is determined by the tire's traction. The braking system needs to strong enough to take you beyond that traction limit. Not being able to lock up the brakes means you do not have enough brake torque at your disposal in relation to the available traction and you’re leaving performance on the table. The brakes, Wilwood or otherwise, should be able to generate enough braking to go beyond your tire's traction and it's the driver's job to modulate the two factors (i.e. "threshold brake") to prevent lockup. If it was simply a matter of limiting a vehicle's braking ability to prevent wheel lockup there would be no need for ABS.

Jeff

[Rian_Colorado]

Thanks to everyone for the input! I've talked to some others as well that suggest the .625 MC's, and will likely go that route, though I think I'll try JUST the pads first and see how that goes.

Jeff, absolutely right (As usual!). I had a chance this afternoon to go play with it a bit. Got the car up to about 70-80, and just STOOD on the brakes (after getting them good and hot for 5 minutes or so). The car DOES brake well, but feels like I'm leg pressing 300lbs. That said, still no lock up. To your point, I think one of the "good things" in my setup is the R888's. With 295s (Front) and 315s (rear) I think they just have a TON of grip! But yet, that means "I'm leaving something on the table" for braking capacity as you mention. Great grip is fantastic (hell, I REALLY can't brake the rears loose launching the car at 3500 rpm with the Coyote. Great for 0-60, bad for showing off....lol). I'll try pads first, and then swap out the MC's if I don't get enough result from the pads.

Is there a trick to finding the right pad size to order from the wilwoods? Haven't seen a good reference yet... I know the part numbers, but can't see a pad size?

RR

[burchfieldb]

Keep us posted on what you find. I am in the process of assembling things and may want to go whatever path you find works.

[Indy Shu]

I was just looking up this morning. I am planning on ordering some BP20’s.
Here’s what I found for my calipers (from FFR).
Rear: 150-20-7812K
Front: 150-20-6712K

The four digit number at the end is the shape code of the pad.

[Dukettaja]

Setup in my car are the 12.88 Wilwoods (stock pads that came with the kit), front and rear. Wilwood pedal box, .75 master cylinders front and rear (with a balance bar). Running 18" rims with R888 tires. I've bedded in the pads, and the car has about 500 miles on it.

I've been into the brake pedal pretty darn hard, and have yet to lock up either front or rear. It brakes ok, but if I ever have to REALLY jam on it, I'm wondering if there will be enough there?

With that setup, well..... I WISH it was better. I've done enough homework to know that power brakes are almost impossible with the Daytona. I have open ears if someone has an answer for that - but failing that option, what more have others tried?

First step is pads:

I know that some have gone to wilwood BP20 (or even BP30?) pads. I'd love to hear from anyone that's gone that route, and recommendations. I know that they have race pads too?

EBC Yellow stuff pads have also been mentioned. I've used their products before in the Audi world, and they do make a good product. Anyone with experience with them on the WW brake setups?

Anyone with part numbers gets a beer too!

Second step - Changing master cylinders? Has anyone changed them to a different size in order to increase caliper clamping force VIA less effort on the brake pedal?

Other options?
Parachute?? lol

Rian

Hello.

I know the coupe power brakes are not easy. I have gen 2 coupe and I try to find some a good solution for it a couble years ago.
First my blan was hydro boost and steering but I was not happy with it. Too much hydraulic hoses and pumb. I like to keep it simple.
A little search with Google and there is it. Tesla Model S electic brake booster. It is small size and powerful booster. The wiring are really easy to do.
In now I have it with electric power steering. You can find the ibooster from Epay a reasonable prize. Connectors, and pins from local car electronic store.

The Tesla Model 3 have same kind iBooster but the reservoi is not good to coupe.

Wiring instructions.
https://www.evcreate.com/wiring-the-ibooster/

Regards: Markku

[Kbl7td]

I know this is a piss poor comparison but my wife’s 992 has 245s up front and 305s out back. Tire size relative to braking on this car isn’t your problem. You’ll 100% be happier with the smaller MC. I wouldn’t even mess with the pads first.

[LateApex]

I was just looking up this morning. I am planning on ordering some BP20’s.
Here’s what I found for my calipers (from FFR).
Rear: 150-20-7812K
Front: 150-20-6712K

The four digit number at the end is the shape code of the pad.

Note that the -7812K pads are for the IRS brakes (I believe) For the Moser / 3-link brakes, the pads are the 9184K. Note also that those are not offered in a BP20

FYI

[Bob Cowan]

I know this is an old thread, but I thought I would add some more info in case anyone else is looking for it.

The BP20 is a much better street pad. You can get more aggressive; but then you have to deal with more dust and noise. It's a trade off, like most things in life.

A smaller MC bore will create more line pressure with less pedal exertion. But it also moves less volume, which requires more pedal movement.

Pedal leverage is really important. In the olden days we used a Fox body pedal box and pedal. It was necessary to shorten the pedal, and use the manual brakes pivot point in the box.

The pedal does dot move in a straight line, it moves in an arc. If the brake rod starts after 6 o,clock, then it tends to move upward more than forward. And you will run out of forward movement when you need it the most.

[Rsnake]

I was not happy with my brakes in the type65 until I installed the 5/8" master cylinders. Much better feel and modulation now.. Do it. My YouTube channel goes into more details.