Pre-build summary and questions

[RogerRoger88]

Hello everyone,

I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a new roadster kit. I’ve been doing some research, reading through build threads and making some notes. However, I’m hoping the community can provide some additional options they think would be advantageous and cool. I don’t want to say that the sky is the limit on this build, but I am looking to have some good options for the final product. I am a rookie, so I will be asking lots of dumb questions. This roadster will be assembled by me, my 2 kids (11 and 12), and my wife. It will be street-driven as often as possible, and I hope to keep it in the family for a long time unless I decide to build another roadster or maybe a coupe. Listed below are some of the options (and questions I already have) I’m thinking so far. Obviously, I’m going to have lots of questions, but I would say that my main question for now revolves around where to purchase some of the options that are decided when you order the kit. Buy from Factory Five or ask for a delete and buy elsewhere, like Forte, Breeze, etc?

Summary:
Complete kit
Powder coated chassis
Power steering
Power brakes – is it really necessary? If I do go with PB, who should I buy the hydro booster from?
IRS
Wilwood brakes black – buy from Factory Five or someone else? It seems like if you buy from someone else, you can begin work on putting them together while waiting for the kit to arrive.
Body cut outs
Battery cut off
GasN pipes – touring edition
AC and heat – any opinions on what manufacturer to go with on this?
Heated seats
Speedhut gauges
Dual roll bars
Carbon fiber dash – (thinking about not having a glovebox, since space is limited behind the dash. Is that even an option?)
Dash grab bar – I’ve seen this in a few builds. At first I wasn’t to keen on it, but it was mentioned that passengers can use it for entering and exiting instead of mistakenly using the windshield.
Russ Thompson turn signal
Sun visors
Wind wings
Breeze battery mounting kit
USB charger
Probably the drop trunk
Black steering wheel
Considering a sound system that would be somewhat hidden and not obvious. Strictly Bluetooth. Good chance this one will be removed.
Cubby behind seats – not 100% sure about this one. Has anyone put hatch/door on it, so it could be closed?
Diamond stitched seats but have the stitching in the same color as the stripes. I’ve got to figure out where to go for these
Seats on a track so at least the driver’s seat can be moved forward and back. I’m 6’2” and my wife is about 5’3”. She will need to be able to drive it just in case.
Everything exterior will be blacked out
18” Halibrand wheels – again blacked out. Is it best to buy from Factory Five and have them powdercoated?

One big thing I haven’t made a final decision on is the engine. I know I want EFI. Right now I’m leaning towards the 5.2 Aluminator. I’ve also considered the 5.0 Coyote, but it sounds like gen 4 will be the only option by the time I’m ready. I’ve also considered the 351W based 427. From what I’ve read, everyone loves the Coyote. However, it takes up a lot of room in the engine compartment. Using the 5.2 Aluminator would be a little different than most builds I’ve read about. Again, it takes up a lot of room in the engine compartment.

Thanks,
Jesse

[Mat1asBEV&ICE]

A couple of answers for you:
- The CF dash comes with the hole already cut for the glovebox. Plus it has a bump out around the opening. Some people have made the glovebox shallower to have room behind it. I remember reading a thread of someone making their own CF dash. Didn't look difficult, I'm sure you can find it with a search. That way you can have a grab bar.
- After driving a car and riding in another I personally decided to not have a stereo. Not sure how you would ever hear the music. But I'm sure some builders are glad they did.
- if your seat will not directly sit on the floor, i.e. using tracks, lift the passenger seat as well so they look even (doesn't have to slide).
- Powder coat (what I did) or get a different brand all together. Be careful, most wheels won't fit. You can search posts/threads on what does.

[dbo_texas]

For the FFR carbon fiber dash, if you want to keep the glove box and add A/C or heater, you have a couple of options:
OPTION 1) Get rid of the glove box --> the door is already pre-cut in the dash so you'll need to mount the glove box door, but when you open it you would just see the A/C or heater unit.
OPTION 2) several folks, including myself, have made a bump-out box to move the A/C or heater unit further into the engine bay and gain a little space behind the dash for the glove box. Another option is use the FF Metal Firewall Forward kit which gains you about 1.5-2" behind the dash. Either way, you will need to still shorten the glove box by about 2 inches or so. I went this route - made my own bump-out box to mount the heater further into the engine bay, then shorted the included glove box which was actually super easy to do. Keep heater and glove box. Details on my build thread HERE (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?40632-ATX-MKIV-9644-Coyote-Build-Thread-(Index-Post-136)&p=523671&viewfull=1#post523671)

[JJK]

I have a radio and do not regret it. It is true that on the highway, the wind noise is too loud to hear anything else, but around town it is fine. You will need an amp and a powered sub if you want to hear deep notes. The speakers, amp, and sub are where the rear cubby would have gone, so you may have to get creative with the real estate if you want a cubby. For reference, I have the GasN touring pipes, so standard pipes may not be as feasible.
Not sure you need Wilwood and power brakes. Power brakes will feel like a daily driver, whereas manual brakes are different, but still highly effective, especially the larger Wilwood.
Russ Thompson passed a while back, but I think someone else has picked up production on the turn signal. Search the forum for the new vendor.
I also blacked everything out with dual roll bars and diamond stitching to match a highlight color. I posted pictures a week or so ago of the completed car.
I originally planned AC and heat, but ended up with just heat and heated seats as I do not plan on getting a roof and AC with no roof in Texas summers will not be effective.
Engine is personal preference, not really an incorrect choice (except of course putting in a chevy :) ). I opted for a SBF pushrod, but plenty of good looking coyote builds.

[Alan_C]

Russ Thompson passed a while back, but Frank at i.e.427 in Upland is making one.
Regarding your dash, I strongly suggest you consider a competition dash layout that places both the speedo and tach to the right of the steering wheel. The original placement makes the instruments, either tach or speedo very hard to read. You can always do metal and do a carbon fiber wrap or applique over the metal.
On my MK4, I used a 1 inch deep glove box that is no longer made. That is the max depth unless you do a firewall forward mod. It is enough to store your registration paperwork and a bit more. As an alternative, I also added the Breeze cubby cabin in the forward area of the upper trunk floor. I made a pocket style access door that I could lock. You could store wind breakers, sunglasses, sunscreen, and cell phones there securely. I also added the USB ports there so that you could charge the phones. For usable storage, I think this is the best option for usable space without really impacting the storage in the trunk area.
Have fun, personalization is where creativity comes in and makes the car your build, not just a kit.

[edwardb]

If you get the optional big Wilwoods from Factory Five, I wouldn't recommend trying to do power brakes. In order to do power, you need to switch to a different pedal box or modify the standard Wilwood pedal box. In either case an additional slight frame mod to make room for the vacuum booster. There's also hydroboost. Still the pedal box situation plus more plumbing along with your power steering and they're pretty expensive. Bottom line the big Wilwoods stop great in manual mode. But with a slightly heavier pedal that in my experience is easy to get used to. I have that setup on my current Coupe plus previous builds.

If you're not planning future power adders, the Aluminator isn't necessary IMO plus is a lot more money. A standard Coyote is very strong. More than enough for street driving. I had a Roadster with a Gen 2 and my current Coupe has a Gen 3. I'm a huge fan. Yes it's tight in the Roadster but it's a proven setup. The Gen 4 crate was recently announced by Ford Performance and likely available before you kit arrives or for sure by the time you need it.

If you like the style, I'd stick with the Factory Five wheels and powder coat them if you want to change the color. They are the proven size, setback, etc. An area that can easily cause confusion.

I put a fancy stereo in one of my builds. Rarely used it. The volume required to hear over the car, wind noise, etc. wasn't relaxing or pleasant at all. Plus entertained all the cars around me. Something I don't appreciate from others.

Good luck and welcome. It's a fun journey.

[DW66]

I have heat and A/C bought from "North Race Cars". Both systems work good but a lot of work and probably a waste of time without a top. I'm not sure where your from but I use my heat way more than my A/C.

Dave

[Jeff Kleiner]

Although I've built roadsters with power brakes they are not really needed. If you add power assist you will have to do away with the dual master cylinders and the ability to bias front to rear with the balance bar which is one of the major benefits, especially when you spend the big bucks on the Wilwood calipers and rotors. My opinion on Wilwoods on a street car is that they are nice for bling but not necessary. You'll run out of tire grip long before you'll run out of braking ability with the standard setup...but don't let me stop you (pun not intended :)). As for buying the Wilwoods elsewhere so that you "can begin putting them together while waiting"...pretty much the only thing that you'll be able to do beforehand is safety wire the rotor/hat bolts which is just an evening's work. Additionally, buying elsewhere opens the door for ending up with incompatible parts. All too many times over my 2+ decades of dealing with these cars I've seen guys try to do better than what FFR offers by sourcing parts or components from other vendors and then finding out that what they bought won't work. Just be forewarned.

Good luck with the build!

Jeff

[Railroad]

If you get the 6 piston Wilwoods, you might want to replace the supplied brake pads. Mine required a lot of effort to stop. They will stop you, just more effort for enjoying cruising. Wilwood does not offer a street pad for the 6 piston calipers. I replaced the pads with Hawk brand and made a noticeable improvement. I think the 4 piston calipers have more pad options.

On the 5.2 aluminator, I understand. I bought the Gen 1 5.0 Aluminator. I love the all forged internals, improved cams, cnc heads, heavy duty oil gears and tone ring for more stable reading a high rpm.
Everytime I drive the car, I love it more.
The cams and tuning in the Aluminator seems to have less low end tq,,,, below 3000 rpm. The engine just comes on at 3000 rpm like a switch.
I am running 3.55 gears. I think 3.73s would be better suited for the engine power profile. If you opt for the 3.73s, more cruising rpm is a given. I drive a lot in 3rd gear. The engine is so smooth, it is not irritating.

Make note of how the Aluminator comes dressed. Mine had the alternator, and high nodular iron flywheel.
The fly wheel had a unique clutch bolt pattern, which did not line up with the clutch Forte shipped. I bought a billet steel flywheel to match the clutch and sold the flywheel to Forte.
The flywheel bolts are one use and done. Be sure you have the spacer plate in place and everything right before final install.
I think the pilot bearing is a roller, do not recall having any fit issues with the trans input shaft.

I used the exhaust studs and nuts. I like the steel lock nuts and better clamping features. I did have to use a bolt on one hole on the drivers side. Also, I shortened the studs. They are easily removed from the heads.
Calculating stud length, include gasket thickness. I used the Ford exhaust manifold gaskets, included.

My .02 cents.

[Jeff_J.]

I installed the Forte hydroboost for power steering and brakes, I installed the kit supplied ford OEM brakes as opposed to the Willwoods, the hydroboost unit works great, brakes works fine but I agree with Paul and Jeff on the this, it's a lot of extra work for a minimal benefit IMO. If I was to do this again I'd have spent the extra to get the large Willwood manual brakes.
Cubby with lockable door. I made/installed one, it works well. These are pictures in case you were curious.
199115
199116
I purchased the grab bar and never ended up installing it, there's a chance I'll install it later but the jury is still out.
I didn't see anything in your list regarding wipers - you may want to check your local area to make sure they aren't required for safety inspection.
Good luck with your build.

[Mike.Bray]

I've heard if you order a Coyote from Forte and tell him it's going in a MKIV he'll throw in a free shoehorn to help you install it:)

[Jeff Kleiner]

I've heard if you order a Coyote from Forte and tell him it's going in a MKIV he'll throw in a free shoehorn to help you install it:)

And if it’s for a Coupe he also includes a tub of Crisco.

Jeff

[RogerRoger88]

Man, this is a great community. Within a few hours, I've already got 11 replies and they're all helpful. No BS. Thanks for all the responses.

I believe getting the wheels and brakes from FF sounds like the best way to go. And I'll get the wheels powder coated. And I'll do away with power brakes.
I'll probably skip the stereo. It was good to hear from others that have installed one.

As I said, I'm still up in the air on engine selection.

I'm in Georgia, so we get hot/humid summers and winters can be cold. I'm gonna reach out to some other GA owners to get their thoughts on AC.

I see that some have put doors on their cubbies, so I'm probably going that route as well.

Thanks again everyone!

[RogerRoger88]

Russ Thompson passed a while back, but Frank at i.e.427 in Upland is making one.
Regarding your dash, I strongly suggest you consider a competition dash layout that places both the speedo and tach to the right of the steering wheel. The original placement makes the instruments, either tach or speedo very hard to read. You can always do metal and do a carbon fiber wrap or applique over the metal.
On my MK4, I used a 1 inch deep glove box that is no longer made. That is the max depth unless you do a firewall forward mod. It is enough to store your registration paperwork and a bit more. As an alternative, I also added the Breeze cubby cabin in the forward area of the upper trunk floor. I made a pocket style access door that I could lock. You could store wind breakers, sunglasses, sunscreen, and cell phones there securely. I also added the USB ports there so that you could charge the phones. For usable storage, I think this is the best option for usable space without really impacting the storage in the trunk area.
Have fun, personalization is where creativity comes in and makes the car your build, not just a kit.
How did you do the seats? Did you get seats from FFR and have the stitching added or reupholstered? Or did you order seats from somewhere else? I’m looking to have diamond stitching that matches the stripe color. Thanks!

[RogerRoger88]

Well, I’m pulling the trigger tomorrow and ordering my kit. I’ve made a few decisions.
Going with the 351w based 427 and TKX from Forte. Not doing the power brakes.
Not doing the sound system.
Most likely going with the 17” Halibrand wheels from FFR (I’ll get these powder coated black to go with the black out theme.)
Doing AC and heated seats but not doing the heat. My wife will have to bundle up when it gets cold.
Going to do a below dash support to put maybe a couple switches and a usb charger but not use the support from FFR. Is it not possible to do a normal outlet? I’ve got 2 vehicles with one and I like them better. Doesn’t matter what phone charger Apple changes to.

For the IRS, is there an advantage to getting this from FFR instead of Forte? Forte’s quote is a little cheaper.
Probably deleting the headers and side pipes and getting those from Gas-n in ceramic coated black.

I’m still researching the other personal touches but those decisions can be made later.

Thanks for everyone’s help so far.

[edwardb]

...For the IRS, is there an advantage to getting this from FFR instead of Forte? Forte’s quote is a little cheaper.

I assume you mean the center section (pumpkin) and knuckles/hubs. They are standard Ford Performance catalog parts. M-4001-88355B and M-5970-M. Some like to get them From Factory Five so they come with their kit shipment. But they are available all over and often with free shipping. Easy to Google and see if you're getting the best price. That's for new of course. Lots of builds source these from salvage, where good condition and low mileage parts are viable and save some money. Salvage is also an option if you want a ratio different than 3.55 (the only one available from Ford Performance) or Torsen limited slip versus the standard clutch style.

[JJK]

Going to do a below dash support to put maybe a couple switches and a usb charger but not use the support from FFR. Is it not possible to do a normal outlet?

What do you mean by "normal outlet"? I elected to install a 12v accessory port (cigarette lighter port) so that I could use insertable adapters for any type of connection. But you could just as easily incorporate any of the USB-specific ports instead. I recommend Blue Sea Systems for waterproof electronics and electrical parts.

[RogerRoger88]

What do you mean by "normal outlet"? I elected to install a 12v accessory port (cigarette lighter port) so that I could use insertable adapters for any type of connection. But you could just as easily incorporate any of the USB-specific ports instead. I recommend Blue Sea Systems for waterproof electronics and electrical parts.

I'm talking about a 115V AC outlet, 2-prong or 3-prong. Our Honda Pilot has a 2-prong and our truck has a 3-prong outlet. They are nice in that it doesn't matter what model your phone charger is. Eh, I guess those are gonna take up more room since only one thing can be plugged in as opposed to the dual usb ports.

[JJK]

I assume this is a legitimate question, but it is rather odd. You are wanting to add an inverter to your car to transform the 12v dc power to ac, then a transformer to increase the voltage to 120v. All this so you can still use the brick portion of your phone charger that plugs into a 120v wall socket? These wall socket bricks then take the 120v ac power and pass it through a transformer to step the power back down (typically 5v for cell charger) then through a rectifier to convert the AC back to DC power.
Keep it simple...

[RogerRoger88]

I assume this is a legitimate question, but it is rather odd. You are wanting to add an inverter to your car to transform the 12v dc power to ac, then a transformer to increase the voltage to 120v. All this so you can still use the brick portion of your phone charger that plugs into a 120v wall socket? These wall socket bricks then take the 120v ac power and pass it through a transformer to step the power back down (typically 5v for cell charger) then through a rectifier to convert the AC back to DC power.
Keep it simple...

Well, based on your explanation, it went from a legitimate question to a dumb question. Ha! Thanks for the education and getting me back on track.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I assume this is a legitimate question, but it is rather odd. You are wanting to add an inverter to your car to transform the 12v dc power to ac, then a transformer to increase the voltage to 120v. All this so you can still use the brick portion of your phone charger that plugs into a 120v wall socket? These wall socket bricks then take the 120v ac power and pass it through a transformer to step the power back down (typically 5v for cell charger) then through a rectifier to convert the AC back to DC power.
Keep it simple...

My thoughts exactly! Thanks for saving me from having to type it all out ;)

Jeff

[DW66]

If your going through all the work to install A/C why not do heat? If you install A/C you will already have the duct work done and the fan and switch wired. The A/C is the hard part the heat is easy. Consider the North Race Cars heat/A/C unit and have both. It sounds like you live somewhere where it gets cold. I use my heat all the time. With a top and heat it extends my driving season 2-3 months.

Dave