Engine won't start help

[SLCMTB]

Good Morning all I am new to the forum and have never posted before so thank you all in advance for any advice/ help you can give.

I am having a heck of a time getting my roadster started and I am looking for some help.

I am running a 347 from blueprint with a sniper. I also haveI an intank pump that bought from factory five. First off the fuel pump runs constantly. Is that normal? I was assuming that it should prime the system and then shutoff. If thats not normal would this be causing the problem?

I started my build using the Breeze kit with an inline regulator which I replaced when it wouldn't start with a setup as suggested by Blueprint/ sniper. Using 3/8 hardlines with a return coming from the sniper directly.I currently don't have a fuel pressure regulator hooked up. Is that something that I need to install that could be causing problems?

I checked the coil and I have spark, and I checked the timing and that all seams to be in order.

Help

[Jhinkemeyer]

Does the sniper give a primer shot of fuel when first keyed on (it should)?
The Sniper has an internal regulator if plumbed correctly.
Did you plumb it correctly? There are 3 inlet options, but the return port is fixed.
Do you have way to measure fuel pressure?
Does it at least fire momentarily with some starting fluid (verifying/isolating the issue to the Sniper / fuel delivery)?
Is the Sniper controlling timing?

[EK1965]

Same package, mine primes then stops. Sounds like either the pump is not picking up fuel or its just looping back to the tank. Have you confirmed fuel to the inlet side of the sniper? I was also told to avoid a fpr with the sniper, it may fight with the internal regulator. Good luck!

[JJK]

There are many more qualified folks on this forum than me, but a few things. The fuel pump will run continuously when the engine is running, else you would no longer get fuel to the engine. The sniper system will turn the pump on when you turn the key to on, and keep it running for about ten seconds if you do not turn the key to start. After about 10 seconds, the fuel pump will turn off if left in the on position without engine startup.
The sniper wants a very specific fuel pressure, if your fuel pump cannot generate that amount of pressure then it will not start. Which pump did you install? A pump meant for a carb will most likely not be of sufficient pressure.
Running an external fuel pressure regulator should not cause any issues with a sniper, but it should not be required if the pump is supplying sufficient pressure as the sniper has an internal regulator to reduce the pressure. But it requires a pump to generate sufficiently high pressure, the sniper cannot increase the pressure, only reduce it.

[SLCMTB]

Thanks for the reply.
Yes the sniper gives a primer shot when the key is turned and then the fuel pump keeps running.
I believe it is plumbed correctly I triple checked it, but will look again.
I don't currently have a way to measure fuel pressure installed. I Do have a fuel pressure regulator that I am probably going to install with a gauge that I purchased from FF5. Originally I plumbed my system with the single line setup from Breeze, and that didn't work. thinking that that could be the problem after talking with Blueprint I plumbed in two lines as per the sniper directions.
It almost fires momentarily
The sniper is not controlling the timing

[SLCMTB]

I have confirmed inlet side of the sniper. I'll open up the tank and look at the pump. I also was going to talk to FF5 about it there seams to be some thought on other threads that with the new version of the wiring harness the pump runs continuously.

you were told to avoid "FPR" ? what is that?
Thanks

[EK1965]

I have confirmed inlet side of the sniper. I'll open up the tank and look at the pump. I also was going to talk to FF5 about it there seams to be some thought on other threads that with the new version of the wiring harness the pump runs continuously.

you were told to avoid "FPR" ? what is that?
Thanks

FPR - fuel pressure regulator. I also had an issue with starting and it turned out to be the coil. If its not a fuel issue, try running the car with the alternator detached so the coil is getting closer to 12v.

[Jhinkemeyer]

I have confirmed inlet side of the sniper. I'll open up the tank and look at the pump. I also was going to talk to FF5 about it there seams to be some thought on other threads that with the new version of the wiring harness the pump runs continuously.

you were told to avoid "FPR" ? what is that?
Thanks

Did you wire it to allow the sniper to run the fuel pump? If so I would expect it to do as others described, pump will run, give a little primer shot and then shut off in a few seconds if you don't crank on it. I am not seeing how any changes to the harness would play into this, it's just carrying electricity around, it's not making decisions. When the fuel pump runs is determined by how it is wired and the what the Sniper (if it is in control) is deciding needs to happen. Tying the sniper in to control the fuel pump requires cutting into the harness and making some decisions around how you want to control it (are you keeping the inertia switch for example), did you do this, what did you do?

Did the Sniper pass the "sensor" check covered in the pre-start checklist? Are you seeing a reading for the RPMs during cranking?

If you've never seen this motor run I would still be hitting it with some starting fluid first just to hear it run for a few seconds to know everything else is good-to-go before going too far down the Sniper rabbit hole...

[rich grsc]

I don't see you talk about the sniper pre-start setup? Not going to run till you do.

[SLCMTB]

FPR - fuel pressure regulator. I also had an issue with starting and it turned out to be the coil. If its not a fuel issue, try running the car with the alternator detached so the coil is getting closer to 12v.

Tried it not luck but thanks

[SLCMTB]

I don't see you talk about the sniper pre-start setup? Not going to run till you do.

I did the Sniper pre-start setup Thanks

[SLCMTB]

Did you wire it to allow the sniper to run the fuel pump? If so I would expect it to do as others described, pump will run, give a little primer shot and then shut off in a few seconds if you don't crank on it. I am not seeing how any changes to the harness would play into this, it's just carrying electricity around, it's not making decisions. When the fuel pump runs is determined by how it is wired and the what the Sniper (if it is in control) is deciding needs to happen. Tying the sniper in to control the fuel pump requires cutting into the harness and making some decisions around how you want to control it (are you keeping the inertia switch for example), did you do this, what did you do?

Did the Sniper pass the "sensor" check covered in the pre-start checklist? Are you seeing a reading for the RPMs during cranking?

If you've never seen this motor run I would still be hitting it with some starting fluid first just to hear it run for a few seconds to know everything else is good-to-go before going too far down the Sniper rabbit hole...

It passed the sensor check and currently I have the harness running the fuel pump. Once the engine is running I am going to try to go down the rabbit hole of having the sniper run the fuel pump. I do need to figure out how to wire it so I don’t bypass the safety switch. If I run the sniper to the safety switch and then on to the fuel pump that should work right? Problems for another night just hoping to get the motor started tomorrow night.

Thank you

[phileas_fogg]

It passed the sensor check and currently I have the harness running the fuel pump. Once the engine is running I am going to try to go down the rabbit hole of having the sniper run the fuel pump. I do need to figure out how to wire it so I don’t bypass the safety switch. If I run the sniper to the safety switch and then on to the fuel pump that should work right? Problems for another night just hoping to get the motor started tomorrow night.

Thank you

When you say you've got the harness running the pump, that tells me that your fuel pump is running properly given how it's wired. The Ron Francis harness provides power to the fuel pump when the key is in RUN and START. You can double check this by turning the key to RUN; your fuel pump should come on. It should turn off as soon as you move the key to ACC or OFF.

Assuming the above test works, and you've verified you have fuel at the Sniper inlet, the only thing I can think of fuel-related is inadequate pressure. You can use either an analog guage (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-800138) or an electronic gauge (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NIK9E10/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) linked to your Sniper system to verify the pressure. Both gauges screw into the fitting on the front of an external fuel pressure regulator. I'm not familiar with the Sniper's fuel pressure regulator, but surely it's got a similar fitting.


John

[chjort]

It doesn't sound like the fuel pump is wired correctly if it's running constantly. I have the same setup you have. I have a key and a pushbutton start. When I turn the key to ON I hear a click, then the pump runs for 5 sec, then the pump shuts off. Then I press the button to start. What do you have the blue wire from the Sniper harness connected to? Easiest way to do it is to run the blue wire back to the pump. If you pour a little gas in the throttle body and crank does it turn over and run for a second? If yes it's a fuel supply problem, if no it's something else.

[Kbl7td]

I for one wouldn’t have the harness run the pump, but that’s me. If it’s anything like the terminator X then there’s a dedicated relay, fuse etc to run the pump. This gives you lots more options, how long to prime, delays, etc.

[phileas_fogg]

A couple of other thoughts:

- Have you got the brake switch wired correctly? Should be closed when you step on the brake pedal.
- Are you stepping on the brake while cranking the engine? Sniper won't start unless the brake switch is closed.
- When you crank the engine & while stepping on the brake pedal, use the edge of your right foot to open the throttle a bit. If the Sniper tune is out of whack, you may not be getting enough air.


John

[rich grsc]

A couple of other thoughts:

- Have you got the brake switch wired correctly? Should be closed when you step on the brake pedal.
- Are you stepping on the brake while cranking the engine? Sniper won't start unless the brake switch is closed.
- When you crank the engine & while stepping on the brake pedal, use the edge of your right foot to open the throttle a bit. If the Sniper tune is out of whack, you may not be getting enough air.


John
Don't know where you heard that, but the sniper isn't connected to the brake system.

[phileas_fogg]

You're right of course. I was thinking of my push button start.

#3 still applies. Maybe it's not getting enough air?

[Jhinkemeyer]

It passed the sensor check and currently I have the harness running the fuel pump. Once the engine is running I am going to try to go down the rabbit hole of having the sniper run the fuel pump. I do need to figure out how to wire it so I don’t bypass the safety switch. If I run the sniper to the safety switch and then on to the fuel pump that should work right? Problems for another night just hoping to get the motor started tomorrow night.

Thank you

The best advice for the next steps is to get a proper fuel pressure gauge at the Sniper inlet. But for quick and dirty if you let the fuel pump run for a few seconds, then turn the key off, and crack the fitting at the fuel inlet you should get a nice bath a fuel. Wrap the fitting in some rags, and have plenty underneath as you'll make a bit of a mess.

When I first installed my Sniper I found that my fuel pump connector was pinned incorrectly from Ron Francis as delivered.

I had a no start condition (and no gauge handy), and when I did the above test I had no fuel! Dry as a bone, but the pump had been running! Eventually figured out the terminals were flopped, so the pump was running in reverse. Re-pinned it correctly, and fired right off!

I think you said earlier that it did a primer shot though, meaning you saw it spray fuel at key on? If so you probably don't have the issue I had, but wanted to mention it just in case.

I'll say it again for fun, just shoot some starting fluid down there and crank on it just to make sure fuel delivery really is the issue! It should pop off right away and run for a few seconds. Then you know ignition is good, timing is good enough to start, etc.

[egchewy79]

not sure if it's been mentioned, but the wiring for the clutch switch in the manual is backwards. I had to switch polarity of the wires to get my engine to fire (FiTech, not Sniper though).

[Norm B]

What’s the IAC indication on the handheld unit when trying to start? Should be 20%. Did you try either turning the idle screw in a little or depressing the accelerator slightly during the start attempts? Is your battery full charge? Snipers don’t like low voltage. Learned that the hard way.
To verify a fuel issue, remove the air cleaner, open the throttle plates and pour a couple of tablespoons of gasoline down each side into the intake manifold. Make sure there’s nothing flammable around and try a start attempt.
If this causes the engine fire then I have recommendations for a pressure testing setup.

Norm

[brewha]

By chance, is the fuel pump wired backwards. You’ll hear the pump run but you’re not going to get any fuel. You may get lots of bubbles in the tank.

[SLCMTB]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

F I checked the fuel pressure and it was running at 120 PSI. I have since plumbed in a fuel pressure regulator after having talked to Blueprint and now I am in the sweet spot at 60p PSI. Still no start. today I am going through my sniper again, double checking connections and checking voltages. If that doesn't work I'm going to try to retime the distributor.

taking this problem one step at a a time.

Thanks everyone for the help and suggestions.

Hoping its running by tonight

[RJD]

not sure if it's been mentioned, but the wiring for the clutch switch in the manual is backwards. I had to switch polarity of the wires to get my engine to fire (FiTech, not Sniper though).

This is easy to miss. If wired correctly, the clutch (clutch safety switch) needs to be depressed when cranking. I too wired mine per the manual and ... nothing. Switched terminals and it fired right up with the clutch depressed.

[rich grsc]

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone.

F I checked the fuel pressure and it was running at 120 PSI. I have since plumbed in a fuel pressure regulator after having talked to Blueprint and now I am in the sweet spot at 60p PSI. Still no start. today I am going through my sniper again, double checking connections and checking voltages. If that doesn't work I'm going to try to retime the distributor.

taking this problem one step at a a time.

Thanks everyone for the help and suggestions.

Hoping its running by tonight
That sounds like you have the fuel lines reversed.

[SLCMTB]

I got her started.
I am so happy turns out it was Flooded and had slight timing issue.
I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for all their suggestions and help

[kirby]

Nice!!! Glad to see you figured it out.