A different way to vent the footbox

[AA-ron]

I thought this group would get a kick out of this.
Here's a different way to ventilate the footbox.
I've read many report that venting them in the traditional sense (3" bilge fan ducted from the front) can be problematic. Some say it works, some say it just sends hot air into the area. I guess it makes sense that the air might get a little toasty pulling through the engine bay, and I would imagine that the intake location being only 10" above the hot pavement doesn't help much either.
Soooo....I thought I'd try something different. At the end of the summer I mocked up a different location for fan and duct work and gave it a shot. It worked BEAUTIFULLY! Basically, I located the same 3" bilge fan behind the seat, where it pulls in ambient temp air (not hot pavement air) and piped it along the side of the seat into the footwell. And because it's not in the engine bay, the air doesn't heat up as it travels through the tube. Lastely, no need for an inline blast gate-- so installation and function is easier. I'm betting it is actually easier to do it this way than through the engine bay-- no cutting and much easier wiring. It was a super fun little project, and if I'm $80 into it I'd be surprised. If you want to see a bit more on how I did it, you can check out this video (just fast forward past all my annoying talking in the beginning)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVwMEVxvHZE

195742195743

[Mike.Bray]

That is really neat! I debated installing fans and in the end didn't as there wasn't enough consensus that they helped all that much. But this method....

You should make some of those transitions and sell them. I'll take two:)


Mike

[Bellecobra]

Just watched the video loved the idea. Just a quick question do you measurements on the length you need to cut those ducts. Great work love the build videos

[OB6]

I just watched your video and I think you just won post of the day.

[John4337]

Genius level stuff, well done. On a side note, do you have details on that seatbelt set up?

[BRRT]

Very nice! I thought a lot about vent fans, finally decided against them. This might be the thing I was looking for!

[BrewCityCobra]

I thought this group would get a kick out of this.
Here's a different way to ventilate the footbox.
I've read many report that venting them in the traditional sense (3" bilge fan ducted from the front) can be problematic. Some say it works, some say it just sends hot air into the area. I guess it makes sense that the air might get a little toasty pulling through the engine bay, and I would imagine that the intake location being only 10" above the hot pavement doesn't help much either.
Soooo....I thought I'd try something different. At the end of the summer I mocked up a different location for fan and duct work and gave it a shot. It worked BEAUTIFULLY! Basically, I located the same 3" bilge fan behind the seat, where it pulls in ambient temp air (not hot pavement air) and piped it along the side of the seat into the footwell. And because it's not in the engine bay, the air doesn't heat up as it travels through the tube. Lastely, no need for an inline blast gate-- so installation and function is easier. I'm betting it is actually easier to do it this way than through the engine bay-- no cutting and much easier wiring. It was a super fun little project, and if I'm $80 into it I'd be surprised. If you want to see a bit more on how I did it, you can check out this video (just fast forward past all my annoying talking in the beginning)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVwMEVxvHZE

195742195743

I really like that. And as another plus it seems like something you could retrofit after the car is complete so long as you can get a power wire there. Really nice.

[cc2Arider]

Great idea AA-ron :)

Craig C

[Bob Cowan]

Very impressive. I don't really need that in my car (in Colorado). But it gave me some ideas for other projects I'm planning. Thanx! :)

I remember a while back somebody did a similar project, but it blew air into the seat for cooling and heating.

[Mike.Bray]

I love this idea but I don't want to do it the way AA-ron did, I hate working with fiberglass too much. I'm looking at fabricating from aluminum, I found some 1" x 4" aluminum RHS at the local Metal Supermarket and thanks to sendcutsend.com I can get the square to round transitions made for $20 each. Then tack weld together and cover with carpet like in the video.

Planning on using this fan (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F7ANK7S?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details).

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/squaretoroundtransitionassembly.jpg

[cunfewzed]

Just wanted to say I love your build! Been looking through the YouTube vids and you gave me some great ideas even though I'm building a Daytona. Well done.

[johnpinetree]

My seats aren't in yet and I'm wondering if it could work similarly by ducting in under the seat?

Really nice work.

[JJK]

mike,
I hope the blower is not 130db as the spec indicates or it will be deafening behind you. Let us know how loud it really sounds.

[egchewy79]

mike,
I hope the blower is not 130db as the spec indicates or it will be deafening behind you. Let us know how loud it really sounds.
It’s 1 dB per 1 CFM��

[AA-ron]

Just watched the video loved the idea. Just a quick question do you measurements on the length you need to cut those ducts. Great work love the build videos

The length of the long straight piece is 25" and approximately 6" for the shorter piece.

[AA-ron]

"I love this idea but I don't want to do it the way AA-ron did, I hate working with fiberglass too much. I'm looking at fabricating from aluminum, I found some 1" x 4" aluminum RHS at the local Metal Supermarket and thanks to sendcutsend.com I can get the square to round transitions made for $20 each. Then tack weld together and cover with carpet like in the video."
Mike, I wish I had the sheet metal fab skills you do. Your rendering and version looks great. I've said it before in my videos, "aint nothing sexy about fiberglass work". But it sure is easy and less cuts and nicks on my poor hands...

[AA-ron]

My seats aren't in yet and I'm wondering if it could work similarly by ducting in under the seat?

Really nice work.

My seats sit right on the floor, so no space underneath.

[AA-ron]

Thanks for all the nice comments-- means a lot coming from this group.
A quick follow up on the performance of my rear mounted fans:
The amount of air they move is amazing, it's going to be a real treat on those hot days. Second, I'm very surprised how little I hear the fans when the engine is running.

[AA-ron]

Genius level stuff, well done. On a side note, do you have details on that seatbelt set up?

I used a universal 3-point retractable seat belt that I found on Amazon. I can't seem to find the details on my order, but I believe most standard 3-point units would work. Mine were about $70. The retractor simply bolts to the stock FFR seatbelt tab on the trunk floor and the other two mounting points also bolted to the stock locations on either side of the seat. When I say it was easy, I mean that the whole install took probably 20 minutes-- seriously, it was a "plug-n-play"!

[Mike.Bray]

mike,
I hope the blower is not 130db as the spec indicates or it will be deafening behind you. Let us know how loud it really sounds.

That's a good point. I'm also looking at this one that might be quieter. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FL73F6G?smid=A2NS3VXOIXXVDC&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp&th=1

[Mike.Bray]

"I love this idea but I don't want to do it the way AA-ron did, I hate working with fiberglass too much. I'm looking at fabricating from aluminum, I found some 1" x 4" aluminum RHS at the local Metal Supermarket and thanks to sendcutsend.com I can get the square to round transitions made for $20 each. Then tack weld together and cover with carpet like in the video."
Mike, I wish I had the sheet metal fab skills you do. Your rendering and version looks great. I've said it before in my videos, "aint nothing sexy about fiberglass work". But it sure is easy and less cuts and nicks on my poor hands...

I'm going to look today at modeling something up that could be 3D printed. Time for me to start thinking 21st century.

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/squaretoroundtransitionpart3dprinted_2.jpg

Use this transition with some silicone and pop rivets and I think we're in business.

[AA-ron]

Mike, That's SLICK!

[CraigS]

It might be hard to get it looking even and smooth but how about a flexible hose? Thinking the kind w/ relatively thin fabric and a wire spiral inside. Pretty easy to go from round to an oval. It would reduce the area of the cross section in the oval but might still work out. One of these?
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/hose/duct-hose~/

[Mike.Bray]

I'm going to try one with a 3D printed transition and a Chillout Systems 3" inline blower (https://chilloutmotorsports.com/products/clubseries-3inch-180cfm-blower?variant=32057494601812).

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/squaretoroundtransitionassembly01.jpg

[AA-ron]

Last little tidbit of info on my installation. You do need to notch out the bottom of the tube to clear the bolt on the seat belt mounting tab. It's no biggie, I just cut about 3/4" square in the vent tube and used some industrial flexible tape (used in exterior window flashing) and it worked perfectly. Actually as I'm thinking about it, if you used 1 x 4" tube instead of the 1-1/4" x 4" that I used, it might just clear it.
Just a fyi...

[Railroad]

I am liking it all. I think I would/will look into a variable speed control and use the higher speed blower. I think they make them with the off/on switch with the rheostat feature. Silicone hose in step diameters are available to transition from the rectangular to round connection.

[Mike.Bray]

Last little tidbit of info on my installation. You do need to notch out the bottom of the tube to clear the bolt on the seat belt mounting tab.

While I'm forever waiting for my car to get back from Glacier Speed Painters I've been looking for stuff I can do to keep busy. I was able to go and get some measurements off OB6's car and play around with my cooling system design. Made a simple mockup of the PS area and placed the fan as far back and towards the center of the car as I could. From there I tweaked my transition piece to make it a little more elegant and also added a shrouded notch to clear the seatbelt bracket as Ron pointed out.

New transition looks like this:

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/coolingfantransitionpsa.jpg

And assembled in the car:

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/coolingfanassyps.jpg

The transition I'll have 3D printed out of nylon.

[Rebostar]

AA-ron
Thanks for all that you have posted. I watched all your You Tube Vids. Twice!! I will be using your new vent system with a bit of a twist. Where you angle the 1x4 duct behind the seat, I plan to run it straight through the aluminum back wall then make an adapter to join a 3" flexible aircraft grade scat tube up through the trunk floor then a 90' turn into the blower then an intake short tube connected to the cubbie side wall. So the intake will be though the cubbie side wall....into the blower....down through the upper trunk floor connecting to the 1x4 behind the seat. There is ample room for the flex duct. My seat position will be all the way back as far as it will go, so moving the blowers and hence the intake up to the cubby will take the blowers out of the cockpit. When I start the rear cockpit aluminum I'll be fabing this plan up. I'll keep you all posted if it works or is a bust.
Allyn...aka Rebostar

[SuperFlyBriBri]

While I'm forever waiting for my car to get back from Glacier Speed Painters I've been looking for stuff I can do to keep busy. I was able to go and get some measurements off OB6's car and play around with my cooling system design. Made a simple mockup of the PS area and placed the fan as far back and towards the center of the car as I could. From there I tweaked my transition piece to make it a little more elegant and also added a shrouded notch to clear the seatbelt bracket as Ron pointed out.

New transition looks like this:

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/coolingfantransitionpsa.jpg

And assembled in the car:

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/coolingfanassyps.jpg

The transition I'll have 3D printed out of nylon.

Hello. What a great post.

Is it possible to share the model and discuss where you are getting this fabricated?

[Mike.Bray]

Hello. What a great post.

Is it possible to share the model and discuss where you are getting this fabricated?

I'm getting a prototype piece printed to test the fit in the car. When it's proven I'm happy to share the step files and who I'm using for the 3D printing with anyone who's interested.

[Benchwarmer]

I'm getting a prototype piece printed to test the fit in the car. When it's proven I'm happy to share the step files and who I'm using for the 3D printing with anyone who's interested.

Thank you so much for this!

[AndrewIdaho]

Mike Great Work on this.

Question: your model shows it fitting for the passenger side. Won't you need the same notch on the top so the channel can fit on the drivers side around the seat belt tab?

Thanks, Andrew

[Mike.Bray]

Question: your model shows it fitting for the passenger side. Won't you need the same notch on the top so the channel can fit on the drivers side around the seat belt tab?

The part is not symmetrical, the round to rectangle transition is offset in two directions to tuck it up tight to the rear cockpit wall and make the bottom flush with the fan feet. I'll do a mirror image model for the DS.

Mike

[AA-ron]

AA-ron
Thanks for all that you have posted. I watched all your You Tube Vids. Twice!! I will be using your new vent system with a bit of a twist. Where you angle the 1x4 duct behind the seat, I plan to run it straight through the aluminum back wall then make an adapter to join a 3" flexible aircraft grade scat tube up through the trunk floor then a 90' turn into the blower then an intake short tube connected to the cubbie side wall. So the intake will be though the cubbie side wall....into the blower....down through the upper trunk floor connecting to the 1x4 behind the seat. There is ample room for the flex duct. My seat position will be all the way back as far as it will go, so moving the blowers and hence the intake up to the cubby will take the blowers out of the cockpit. When I start the rear cockpit aluminum I'll be fabing this plan up. I'll keep you all posted if it works or is a bust.
Allyn...aka Rebostar

I actually have my seats all the way back and still had room for the fan and to make the corner with the 1 x 4". However, I really like your idea of moving the blowers out of the cockpit too. I will say, after driving it yesterday (very warm day here in Maine) I had the chance to flip the fans on to see if I could hear them, and I really didn't notice them running with the engine running. I was pleasantly surprised.

[AA-ron]

While I'm forever waiting for my car to get back from Glacier Speed Painters I've been looking for stuff I can do to keep busy. I was able to go and get some measurements off OB6's car and play around with my cooling system design. Made a simple mockup of the PS area and placed the fan as far back and towards the center of the car as I could. From there I tweaked my transition piece to make it a little more elegant and also added a shrouded notch to clear the seatbelt bracket as Ron pointed out.

New transition looks like this:

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/coolingfantransitionpsa.jpg

And assembled in the car:

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/coolingfanassyps.jpg

The transition I'll have 3D printed out of nylon.

Man, I really love how you've improved this idea! So cool.... literally :)

[In_D_Woods]

I haven't built my factory 5 yet, but I wondered if anybody had ever tried using a water cooled foot box. Perhaps run some copper tubing across the panel and sandwich it between another aluminum outer panel and then run that to a cooler out in front of the radiator. The advantages that it would take up less space than the air ducting.

[Rebostar]

AA-ron & All
In the course of pre fitting and drilling all my aluminum panels I decided to see if venting the footbox from air intakes located in the cubby would work. Seems it will. Rather than make 1x4 rectangle ducts, I only need one side and a way to attach it and make the side and back walls the "outside" of the duct. So I spent the day doing origami! First I had to make sure everything would clear the rear end. So I had to mock up the rear axle and place the wheels to see what room there is. I wont have the drivers side and back wall permenently installed for a while. I will unravel my origami ducts and make .025 2024 T3 ducts and have them ready for when I rivit all the panels on. Below are the results.197016197017197018197019197020

[Mike.Bray]

Update on my project, I received the 3D printed transition piece I designed today. I have to say it turned out really nice, no obvious layer lines and a fine resolution. I'm scheduled to have my car back from paint in a week or two and I can do a test fit. Then create a mirror image model and get the DS one printed.

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20240321104322mediumrotated.jpg

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20240321104328mediumrotated.jpg

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20240321104337mediumrotated.jpg

[Benchwarmer]

Update on my project, I received the 3D printed transition piece I designed today. I have to say it turned out really nice, no obvious layer lines and a fine resolution. I'm scheduled to have my car back from paint in a week or two and I can do a test fit. Then create a mirror image model and get the DS one printed.

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20240321104322mediumrotated.jpg

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20240321104328mediumrotated.jpg

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20240321104337mediumrotated.jpg

That looks sweet!

[BRRT]

AA-ron & All
In the course of pre fitting and drilling all my aluminum panels I decided to see if venting the footbox from air intakes located in the cubby would work. Seems it will. Rather than make 1x4 rectangle ducts, I only need one side and a way to attach it and make the side and back walls the "outside" of the duct. So I spent the day doing origami! First I had to make sure everything would clear the rear end. So I had to mock up the rear axle and place the wheels to see what room there is. I wont have the drivers side and back wall permenently installed for a while. I will unravel my origami ducts and make .025 2024 T3 ducts and have them ready for when I rivit all the panels on. Below are the results.197016197017197018197019197020

If I am understanding your design correctly, the blower will be drawing air from inside the trunk. Where will makeup air be coming from?
I thought about putting my heater core and blower in the trunk but couldn't come up with a good way to get air into the trunk without possibly drawing in water and road dirt.
I like your idea!

[Rebostar]

If I am understanding your design correctly, the blower will be drawing air from inside the trunk. Where will makeup air be coming from?
I thought about putting my heater core and blower in the trunk but couldn't come up with a good way to get air into the trunk without possibly drawing in water and road dirt.
I like your idea!

Jeff.
Bewteen the seats I cut out a 5" x 12" opening (cubby) open to the outside air. The last pic the cardboard box simulates the "cubby" air will be drawn through the cubby side wall, through the vent blower ducted to the lower duct system. So "theoreticly" fresh air comes into the cubby via ram air, then the blowers move it down to the foot boxes.
Allyn

[Rebostar]

OK, so here is the results of the last few days installing the cubby, bilge blower and mounts. I welded nuts on the front side of the shoulder belt mounts so I could remove them with one hand. I also plan to use a close tolerance pip pin on the inner roll bar so I can remove it with one hand. With the cubby, fans, and duct work space is tight, but everything fits and I can access anything I need in the future from the rear without taking off the body. Next up will be the lower ducts.....stay tuned!

197455197456197457197458197459

[Mike.Bray]

After getting my car back from paint the other day I was able to test fit the 3D printed duct I had made. I had to change the seat belt mounting bolt from a hex head to a button head for a little clearance but other than that it fit perfectly.

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20240408171950medium.jpg

If anyone is interested in doing the same thing you can PM me your email address and I'll send you the step files and where to get them printed.

[AA-ron]

If I am understanding your design correctly, the blower will be drawing air from inside the trunk. Where will makeup air be coming from?
I thought about putting my heater core and blower in the trunk but couldn't come up with a good way to get air into the trunk without possibly drawing in water and road dirt.
I like your idea!

Actually, the fan is pulling air in from behind the seat. I figured the coolest air in and around these cars is in the cockpit. When the fan is running you can feel the draft pulling air in around the seat-- it's pretty cool.

[AA-ron]

I love how this idea has spawned all of these creative approaches! My original version looks so "childish" now :D

[Rebostar]

As promised....the lower ducts.

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