NuHale 65 Coupe Build Thread - Fan Controller Wiring Question

[nuhale]

Wasn't planning on it this early in 24' but with the announced sale and potential for price increase I decided now better time than ever and jumped in first thing today. Deposit down with an end of May pickup planned. Looking forward to the build as even though I love my MKIV I really miss the building process.

Went with a 65 Base Coupe kit. Build plan has been underway and already have a good amount of parts but a quick list of build plan:

Base Kit
IRS
Front FFR LCA
TKX (unsure of gear)
Coyote (TBD on pullout or crate) I'm leaning towards a GEN 2 if I can find one reasonable.
Forced induction (pref centrifugal but fit will be issue)
Mustang cut out rear end (10k) with 3.55 differential (may swap to 3.31 gearing) brakes, spindles etc.
Forgestar F14 19"
Rear 15+ IRS single piston brake (13" rotor) and 2004 Cobra SVT Fronts (13" Rotor)

First question to the forum is on IRON vs. Alum Diff. I see lots of posts on this but with the power I'm planning guessing an Iron housing is ideal.

more to come but pumped to get going!

[JimStone]

Congratulations! I took the plunge today too! Coupe complete kit. I also wasn't quite ready, but FOMO kicked in with the sale and upcoming price hike

[cv2065]

Congrats!!

[GoDadGo]

I'm Jealous!
Congratulations!

[Kbl7td]

I have new in box front two piece spindles if you’re interested.

[nuhale]

Congrats!!

thx Chad- hope your build going well

[nuhale]

I have new in box front two piece spindles if you’re interested.

thx for the offer but the base coupe kit now comes with spindles... need Front LCA if anyone has.

[Al_C]

so will this be "cubcoupe" on the plate? oh wait, that's too many letters, isn't it. ;)

[edwardb]

Congratulations! Love our Coupe. Only said that about hundred times now... For the IRS center section, when Factory Five first released that new design IRS, they said iron case only. Since then, they've changed that to say either iron or aluminum. Unless you're planning super sticky tires, like drag slicks or whatever, either is fine. Even then the center section probably wouldn't be the weakest link. Probably the CV axles. That's one of the first things the Mustang performance guys upgrade.

[nuhale]

As I went with the base kit still sourcing some parts. Picked up a set of rear IRS spindles, RF wiring harness, Brock racing mirrors amongst other small parts. Also planned on doing a full mustang cut out to supply the brakes, spindles and differential but with the deal I got on new spindles I'm probably going new differential (3.55). Still plan on used rear brakes and will rebuild and powdercoat. Lucked out on a Gen 2 coyote pullout with 12k miles. Still planning on a TKX but can be talked out of for a T56. I scored a new QT6080 bellhousing for half of what they are going for these days and with the T56 a grand more wondering if I will really see a value here or put the money somewhere else.

Picking up engine this week and will need a little work. Missing valve covers and as I'm planning a boost build (leaning towards VMP Loki/Odin or gen3r) plan to put in a boundary OPG/cam sprocket and considering pulling the heads to inspect pistons, and swap to ARP head stems. I've heard both sides of this and that they may not be needed. Will also swap pan and pickup and add B302 alt and a mustang compressor as I will add AC. No hydro pump on this one as plan to go with E-power steering. Opinions welcome!

[edwardb]

As I went with the base kit still sourcing some parts. Picked up a set of rear IRS spindles, RF wiring harness, Brock racing mirrors amongst other small parts. Also planned on doing a full mustang cut out to supply the brakes, spindles and differential but with the deal I got on new spindles I'm probably going new differential (3.55). Still plan on used rear brakes and will rebuild and powdercoat. Lucked out on a Gen 2 coyote pullout with 12k miles. Still planning on a TKX but can be talked out of for a T56. I scored a new QT6080 bellhousing for half of what they are going for these days and with the T56 a grand more wondering if I will really see a value here or put the money somewhere else.

Picking up engine this week and will need a little work. Missing valve covers and as I'm planning a boost build (leaning towards VMP Loki/Odin or gen3r) plan to put in a boundary OPG/cam sprocket and considering pulling the heads to inspect pistons, and swap to ARP head stems. I've heard both sides of this and that they may not be needed. Will also swap pan and pickup and add B302 alt and a mustang compressor as I will add AC. No hydro pump on this one as plan to go with E-power steering. Opinions welcome!

I assume you know that 6060 bell is good for your TKX, but not the T56. That requires an 8080. That may sway your decision, I don't know. I love the T56 in my Coupe. Really like the two overdrive ratios. I like the reverse lockout, although maybe not appreciated by everyone since it adds a little work on the installation. The T56 shifts like butter. Something the TKO wouldn't do at the time I built mine. Unless modded, e.g. Liberty Gears which I did a couple times. The TKX by all accounts solves the shift issue. So that makes the decision a little harder. The T56 + Coyote fits into the Gen 3 Coupe without any drama. Bottom line for me, I would do a T56 again.

I had electric PS my truck. First time I've tried it after multiple builds with traditional hydraulic PS. I personally didn't care for the feel of it. I've heard others say the same thing. But others like it. Obviously, very subjective. My experience on my last two builds was the KRC pump with good quality racks. Outstanding setup.

[nuhale]

I assume you know that 6060 bell is good for your TKX, but not the T56. That requires an 8080. That may sway your decision, I don't know. I love the T56 in my Coupe. Really like the two overdrive ratios. I like the reverse lockout, although maybe not appreciated by everyone since it adds a little work on the installation. The T56 shifts like butter. Something the TKO wouldn't do at the time I built mine. Unless modded, e.g. Liberty Gears which I did a couple times. The TKX by all accounts solves the shift issue. So that makes the decision a little harder. The T56 + Coyote fits into the Gen 3 Coupe without any drama. Bottom line for me, I would do a T56 again.

I had electric PS my truck. First time I've tried it after multiple builds with traditional hydraulic PS. I personally didn't care for the feel of it. I've heard others say the same thing. But others like it. Obviously, very subjective. My experience on my last two builds was the KRC pump with good quality racks. Outstanding setup.

Thanks for the feedback Paul. I'm sure I'll seek you out in June at LCS to talk some more shop. I do know the details on the bellhousing. Just saw this one a few weeks ago and couldn't pass on it so even if I did make a change in my build plan I would offer it up to another builder. Still in disbelief that the QT bells have almost doubled in cost in just a few short years... such is life these days. Thanks for the e-power steering feedback. I have a Forte saginaw pump setup on my MKIV. I've been really happy with the feel. It powers my hydroboost as well. I have the manual rack from the roadster build so was considering just using that with the epower and save a few bucks. Certainly do some more research on the options. Not a huge thing to change but need to be aware of front engine belt space with considerations of a blower.

[Al_C]

Showing my ignorance here, but I have to ask this question: if you are concerned about the ability of the cam sprockets to handle the power you expect, what about the crank and connecting rods? I would think that the parts are matched to handle the same amount of power from the factory. Are the sprockets the weakest link?

[nuhale]

Showing my ignorance here, but I have to ask this question: if you are concerned about the ability of the cam sprockets to handle the power you expect, what about the crank and connecting rods? I would think that the parts are matched to handle the same amount of power from the factory. Are the sprockets the weakest link?

It can start a debate but a well-known weakness of the coyote is the oil pump gear. It's a cast part and has shown failure at high RPM situations. Many just swap it out with a billet gear from boundry. Common swap but have heard both sides of it. Not a huge change when engine in on stand and a cheap insurance policy. All other stock components are pretty durable and can handle boost. Only other area may be the ARP head studs which is another easy one if I'm getting into the engine.

[Al_C]

It can start a debate but a well-known weakness of the coyote is the oil pump gear. It's a cast part and has shown failure at high RPM situations. Many just swap it out with a billet gear from boundry. Common swap but have heard both sides of it. Not a huge change when engine in on stand and a cheap insurance policy. All other stock components are pretty durable and can handle boost. Only other area may be the ARP head studs which is another easy one if I'm getting into the engine.

Thanks, Bryan! I appreciate the explanation. Thanks for indulging me!

[cunfewzed]

I'm feeling you on the sale, wasn't exactly ready to start my build, but I'm about to put down a deposit too before I have to pay $5k more a year from now.... Damn marketing lol

[nuhale]

Parts are still arriving daily. Looks like I'll be driving out to Wareham just before Memorial day to pick up my coupe. Put some feelers out for an engine and ended up buying a "donor" engine from D-Mark performance here in Chicago area. It's a gen 2 coyote with around 12K miles on it. The previous owner wanted a 1000+HP monster built so they did a forged/sleeved block with performance heads. They used his existing engine as a donor to all the parts. I bought what was left over. Did inventory and much parts needed but in the end I will get a low mileage gen 2 with upgraded parts. Actually having fun going through all the engine schematics/service manuals to get the hardware and parts. Picked up the engine yesterday and got it on the engine stand.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196917&d=1710624643

Pulled out the micro camera and took a inspection peek in the cylinders. A little carbon build up and the cylinder walls look really good.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196918&d=1710624643

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Opened up my new oil pump and replaced with a boundary OPG. My son and I did a quick experiment dropping the gear and was surprised to see that it does snap with a drop. 2 drops and it snapped in half. I didn't swap this gear on my roadster engine. I know this has been debated in many forums but as long as I'm rebuilding this engine and it's open, why not swap...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196920&d=1710624643

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[nuhale]

Got the call from FFR this week that my coupe will be ready in just a few weeks. Squared up so ready for pickup memorial day weekend. Going to also swing by Mike Forte and pickup a T56 magnum and meet him in person after years of phone conversations.

Made some progress last couple days. Went with the spectra F12B tank. My roadster tank fuel pickup cup just has a hole in the size to allow fuel to enter. This one has a nice bottom form that looks like it will give a better fill and reduce slosh. I notice when my tank is around 1/4"ish" and I get on it that the engine is starved of fuel. Looks like this one will be improved. Took some time degreasing the surface and giving it a couple coats of POR15.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197531&d=1711933218

I wasn't planning on pulling the heads of the engine but got a heck of a deal on some ARP head studs. Given the state of the engine now is the best time to do it. Got everything pulled apart, inspected and cleaned up. Used a dremel brass cup brush to clean up the pistons and valve with WD40. All shiny and clean with new ford performance head gaskets and ARP studs. Destroyed the cam phaser filters getting them out so waiting on new ones to arrive to keep progressing. Overall everything looks great. Plan to do a leak down test to appease my OCD. Picked up a harbor freight kit but the M14 adapter doesnt fit the deep spark plug socket so waiting on an adapter to complete. Will update results once I get the part.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197532&d=1711933218

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[cv2065]

Looks like a lot of fun!!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Looking good buddy! :cool:

Jeff

[nuhale]

Received the adapter and had a free hour tonight so just did the leak down test on the Gen 2 coyote. Results pretty darn good. As written the engine is a pull out donor that was reported to have around 12k miles. This gives me big peace of mind to move forward. Just a small plug for the harbor freight tester. I've used the older one and that one is a POS to say the least. This one is either a dead on knock off of the OTC or made by same supplier. It is identical in every way. Works great!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197681&d=1712188768

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197682&d=1712188768

[Al_C]

Good news! Oh wait, didn't you say something about OCD? Never mind. On another note, how many miles do you have on your Mark IV? I bet these two engines are close, mileage-wise. I'm glad this is working out for you and I think the coupe engine is going to be incredible! I think this whole adventure is really worthwhile!

[nuhale]

Good news! Oh wait, didn't you say something about OCD? Never mind. On another note, how many miles do you have on your Mark IV? I bet these two engines are close, mileage-wise. I'm glad this is working out for you and I think the coupe engine is going to be incredible! I think this whole adventure is really worthwhile!

Just under 11k I think. I’m gonna try and bring her home from storage this weekend if the weather holds. Aren’t you in Texas Al?

[Al_C]

Aren’t you in Texas Al?

Nope. Too many conflicts, and too long a drive. I will be at LCS, though!

[nuhale]

About a week out from driving out to Boston to pick up the coupe from FFR and Trans/random parts from Mike Forte. Some of the purchasing has slowed due to work travel and other projects (mostly getting garage ready). Have my MK4 home from winter hibernation and got through some of the annual maintenance there. Finished getting the Gen2 coyote reassembled and painted. Really happy with result of the Ford corp blue Eastwood ceramic engine paint I used with black engine dress and powder coated oil pan. Much of this not really seen but really like the little details that I didn't do on the roadster. I plan to use a Holley low ram intake, but TBD based on some other decisions that need to be made or what will fit.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=199383&d=1715710494

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Build Plan as of May
BASE KIT
- Gen 2 Coyote 11k mi (rebuilt/upgraded) ARP head studs, Boundry OPG, upgraded timing chains/tensioners, Moroso oil pan
- Tremec T56 6spd
- Quicktime 8080
- IRS
- 13" Fox Mustang Cobra Front "Big Brakes" Hawk HPS Pads
- S550 Rear Brakes Hawk HPS Pads
- Super 8.8 3.55 rear end
- McLeod RST twin disk clutch
- Speedhut FFR gauges
- F/R Sway Bars
- Added front LCA
- Koni Coilovers
- FFR AC/Heat
- Side windows
- RF wiring harness
- Specialty Power Window WWK-2 wiper kit
- Brock racing side mirrors
- Rear S550 (new) IRS spindles
- Power steering (Leaning towards TSP 84053BK-KT - Kit that uses saginaw pump)

Other than the engine, no donor parts. Lots of debate around complete vs base kit. I opted to go base and buy what I need. Will document the process as with the roadster I changed out a ton of components.

TBD
- Supercharged? Not sure what I'll do or what I can fit
- Holley Low Ram intake
- Interior - leaning towards Kirkey 65' road race seats with custom leather
- Forgestar 19" wheels F14
- Denny's driveshaft
- Tires

[JimStone]

Pretty awesome. I'm picking my Coupe kit up next week too - Friday

[nuhale]

Pretty awesome. I'm picking my Coupe kit up next week too - Friday

Same. Friday before noon is plan. Depends on how long I spend chatting with Mike Forte.

[nelsond003]

My kit gets picked up tomorrow and delivery is supposed to be Friday-Sunday. I'm sure I'll find out tomorrow.

[JimStone]

Same. Friday before noon is plan.


Cool! I'll be there at 10am. See you there, haha

I'm hoping to meet Dave Smith. Hopefully he's available

[nuhale]

Been a slow start and already falling behind with the thread. Picked up the coupe on 5/24. Built a dolly with plan to just have them set the chassis/body on, strap down and winch into trailer. Well it didn't go to plan as I measured everything except the darn height clearance of my serpent express. Dave and team to the rescue and we got it safely in with a little ol' fashioned elbow grease. Besides the embarrassment (and hold up to the next pickup) all went pretty well. Was running behind so missed out on getting a factory tour. Next time I guess.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200616&d=1718202653

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200617&d=1718202653

Quick stop by Forte to pickup a T56. Was great to stop in and meet Mike in person after years of chatting on the phone. If you get a chance stop by his place. A gear-heads playground for sure.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200618&d=1718202653

Did the run back to Chicago in one go. 16.5 hours with stopping for gas/food. The Serpent Express pulled great. Have some upcoming trips coming up to LCS and out west to Colorado so was good to get the trailer out. Did some minor service on the trailer adding a tongue box, some new wiring and LED lights in prep for the trips. All worked great. Given that we just set the coupe on some 4x4s in the trailer I had to call in some help to get her out. Thanks to Sten, Leif, Jimmie and David for the help! Came out no problems using the engine crane and some dollies.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200619&d=1718202653

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Been traveling a bit for work so any free time has been spent getting the roadster ready for the LCS trip. Got thru some inventory of the base kit. I will document this as didn't really know 100% what was excluded in detail. Got the front end in with the rack, susp etc. Using a BBB 1010107 refurb rack with energy suspension 4.10103R bushings that I painted black. Had a hell of a time getting the rack extenders on and tightened down but it all worked out. Went with the 13" SN95 "Cobra" big brakes from Powerstop. Same as what I did with the roadster. Really nice setup for the price. Not sure I'll keep the red... will depend on the final color choice.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200621&d=1718202709

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=200622&d=1718202729

LCS is next week so looking forward to seeing a bunch of you folks. Hoping to get more time with this after my LCS and Colorado trips coming up through the 4th.

[JimStone]

Congrats on the kit!

I was the next pickup after you. Sorry you didn't get to do the tour. Dan Golub showed us around, then Dave. We had a great time. Was worth the drive, for sure.

[Al_C]

I look forward to an update when I see you in OH! I was wondering if maybe the coupe might be ready... :rolleyes: This is a really exciting project. I'm envious!

[nuhale]

What a month... Lots of miles across the country. Picked up the coupe from Wareham, LCS then a vacation out to Colorado. Serpent Express certainly got some action. Not much work has been done on the coupe project other than the front end. Continue to make some calls on the build. Just today decided on the slave hyrdo clutch from Forte over a internal Tilton or like. Just like the idea of not having to remove the trans if something goes wrong.

LCS was a great time as always and seeing many of you. Was a little on the hot side but we made the most of it. Nice to have my MKIV in the FFR booth this year. Hate to think about it but this is kind of a last hurrah as I may be considering a sale to make room in the garage (ping me if interested).

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=201639&d=1720628089

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Quick turn around after LCS and took the roadster out to Colorado. For all you Colorado folks I am jealous of what you have in your backyard for driving. Amazing time with friends driving the mountains near Granby, Vail, Breck areas. Been over by Camp Hale in the winter a few times but never in summer. What a sight and grabbed a framer of a pic of the roadster. Did have a slight run in with the Grand County Sheriff where I received my first ticket in 25 years. Doing burnouts in Grand Lake area is not welcomed apparently :cool:. My friends surprised me with putting me in the Vail 4th parade where I pretty much lead off the parade with the Emergency/Ambulance teams. Ton of fun driving through the tight streets of Vail giving the folks some revs. Clutch was quite unhappy at the end but it was worth it. Ready to get back to work on the Coupe project with the rear end IRS going in next. More progress to report soon.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=201631&d=1720626047

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[Jeff Kleiner]

...Did have a slight run in with the Grand County Sheriff where I received my first ticket in 25 years. Doing burnouts in Grand Lake area is not welcomed apparently...

Darn out of state hooligan with a loud car :mad:

Jeff

[nuhale]

Some progress to report. Completed pre fitting and drilling all the aluminum panels. Decided to use a few techniques on this build to lessen the powder coat cost. Using the gold foil/fiberglass adhesive sheet on panels facing the engine for a nice aesthetic and hoping some function (thanks Erik). Most of the panels in the engine bay other than the gold footboxes off to powder which going with a matte wrinkle finish.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=203270&d=1724859692

I will be using sound deadening material in the cab I picked up on amazon. Will be using a combo of 80/120mil rubber/foil sheet with some additional sound deadening mat. More to come on this front. For any of the panels that are slightly seen in wheel wells or under car (ie underside of tunnel) I will be using a vinyl adhesive material. I did some testing on it and it holds up pretty well. Goes on like vinyl signage or car wrapping with some soapy water that gets squeegeed out. 50' roll was $30 so easy decision. I'll attach some photos when I get the panels wrapped.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=203271&d=1724859692

Just some other odds and ends for engine etc. Keep finding those deals. Picked up a new BOSS302 alternator kit for half. Looked kinda strange on my blacked out gen 2 coyote so break out the POR15 and a little time to paint.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=203272&d=1724859692

Next up is finishing the fuel and brake lines. Will be using Nicopp brake and AN flexible PTFE braided line. Moving along nicely. Hoping to get to first start end of October but that work thing keeps getting in the way.

[nuhale]

Been a minute since I posted anything on the build progress. Hoping to play a little catch up in the coming weeks documenting progress but lots done which I'll detail once I get time to update. Overall lots done and heading towards first start in the coming weeks. Engine in, brakes done, fuel system complete, coyote wiring done etc etc. I went with the Base coupe kit and was going to document the big differences between complete/base for all you budget builders ($5k difference). My design intent is more of a "modern take on a classic" I opted to go with different wheels than the FFR Halibrands. "Borrowed" the same spec from "snowman" as I think one of the best-looking wheels & fit that I've seen with the coupe to date with the Forgestar F14's. The rims are 19x10 front and 19x12 rears with Yokohama Adven v601 (305/30/19 fronts 325/30/19 rears). Bronze was a little out of my comfort zone as I'm pretty conservative when it comes to car styles but I'm glad some of my builder friends talked me into it. I think they look amazing. Brake setups are Powerstop. Fronts are the SN95 13" Cobra style PN KC1304D. Rears are 15+ S550 13" PN KC6812. Rotors look small in the dish but don't be fooled! Just a taste for now and will upgrade on some of the other things I've done later... ;)

Car color is still under consideration but leaning towards BMW Carbon Black Metallic with Bronze accents to match the wheels... but as many of you have faced... this changes daily. Saw a newer GT500 go across the Mecum block in the newer "Brittany Blue with white stripes" and it was stunning.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=209134&d=1736877031

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[JimStone]

Looking good!

I picked up my coupe kit the same day, but you're way ahead in progress.

Love the wheels. I'm actually planning same wheels/specs, but in gloss black.

[burchfieldb]

Looking good! Any wheel clearance issues with that setup?

[Al_C]

Thanks for posting, Bryan! I was wondering how this build was going... Wheels look good. Can't wait to hear about a first start. Chances of it being ready for London???

[cv2065]

Looking great!! I'm about the same on the posting cadence. ;)

[nuhale]

Looking good! Any wheel clearance issues with that setup?

Builder "snowman" established this spec and the wheels fit nice and tight on his build. No interference seen with the chassis/panels I see yet. More to come with body but as stated other builder used this spec with success.

[nuhale]

Thanks for posting, Bryan! I was wondering how this build was going... Wheels look good. Can't wait to hear about a first start. Chances of it being ready for London???

Slim chance Al. I've been surprisingly home most of the month but work travel about to kick in again. I'll be traveling most of Feb/March which definitely slows things down.

Still not 100% on LCS this year. If I do go would be bringing the MK4 after I rebuild the TKO600 trans this spring.

[460.465USMC]

Great progress, Bryan! You'll lap me a couple times at this pace.

Just caught up on your build. I'm a little envious of your mechanical skills. Good stuff! I like the blue paint on your Coyote. Don't see much of that in these builds. Very cool.

Looking forward to your upcoming updates. Don't keep us in suspense too long. :p

[nuhale]

Experiencing Non-Start Conditions on the Coupe :(

Well... Didn't go as planned yesterday. I couldn't get the gen2 fired after hours of attempts. I'm 99.999% sure I have the wiring correct as not my first rodeo with this setup. When I had it to a point I gave a try to turn over engine and all worked perfect on Friday. Didn't give it fuel yet. Figured everything ready to go so finished off the punch list and was ready to go. Gave it fuel and a shot to fire and it cranked but no kick. After a couple attempts starter wouldn't go anymore. Guessing that the ECU said STOP!!! Went thru everything again and checked all grounds, connections, relays, fuses etc and all looks good/correct. I snipped off the clutch safety connector on coyote harness and connected the ground circuit with wire nut so that's not it. I can't seem to get it to crank anymore and it appears as if the ECU is unhappy. I am able to jump the solenoid on the starter itself and it cranks. I also jumped the starter at the relay in the PCB which also works. Let the battery charge overnight with the ground off the battery. Just gave it another try and won't even turn over. Only way I was able to get it to crank yesterday is to jump it at the starter which seems to open the computer to accept the call for start from the ign switch. Sten was onsite to lend a hand and we went step by step. I don't have a NOID light but was able to use a LED light and we saw pulse when cranking so injectors are firing. I can smell gas from exaust too. All is working fine with the larger GT350 TB once ign power is given.

The engine is not stock configuration so I'm suspect that this is the main issue. Its a gen2 with a standard ford control pack. Im using a GT350 intake and deleted the CMCV and IMRC systems. Also removed the Evap sensor and used LU47 injectors. I'm guessing that all of this is confusing the ECU. Appreciate the phone support I got from my builder buds yesterday...

I'll be talking with my tuner tomorrow on what is best course or if I'm missing something. As for now you win Coyote... The battle has been won but the war is far from over.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210298&d=1739127281

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[edwardb]

Confused by this part of your description: "I snipped off the clutch safety connector on coyote harness and connected the ground circuit with wire nut so that's not it." The clutch safety switch is just a normally open/normally closed with the clutch pedal down. The PCM is looking for that switch to be closed before cranking. There is no ground wire involved. If you want to bypass the switch, just jumper the two ends together. Don't know if that could explain your no-start condition (seems to be a Coyote thing this weekend...) or maybe you're describing two different things. Or maybe I'm just not understanding something. But throwing out the observation.

[nuhale]

Thanks for the reply Paul. The safety switch is a ground switch not +12v. snipped off the connector and just tied the wires with a wire nut to complete the circuit. Just highlighting that the safety switch isn't the cause.

[nuhale]

Just at it for a little more and its cranking (had to jump it at the relay in PCB). Injectors are firing as the garage reeks of gas. The coil plugs & injectors are getting +12v but not sure if they are firing. All signs point to a ECU issue and I'm guessing all the mods to engine are the cause. Connected the Blue Driver and its showing a P0100 MAF code. On to other things until I connect with tuner.

[Fbird]

I had similar issues with my 2015 gen 2 in my coupe. It went into limp mode twice due to errors by I made in the wiring caused by excessive cranking. It would not start until I found the problem and then jumped the starter while the key was in the on position. When jumped it started. I let it run and then it was ok again. Sort of like coyote cpr. Early this year I took it to a tuner. As soon as the did their dyno run and tried to upload their tune it went into this non responsive mode again. They were flummoxed by it. No more crank or anything. It turned out my ECU had some gibberish code causing this issue and they needed a patch to correct it. Knock on wood no more limp mode. I bet this problem existed in my initial starts…but at the time most people I had spoken with did not even know that a coyote would do this or how to fix it. I tried resetting with a code reader, disconnecting the ECU power and nothing worked until I bypassed it with a remote starter switch for 1 successful start. I bet once you get someone who can talk with the computer it will work out. It might have something in the ECU. Keep us all posted. Best wishes.

[Al_C]

If you disconnected the battery for charging, you solved part of your problem. The PCM has programming that shuts down the starter if you crank it too much. I learned that the hard way, too. if you disconnect the battery for a while, you reset the mechanism. Don't ask me why - this is what they told me. It worked for me a couple of years ago. If I am not mistaken, you should be able to crank normally when you reconnect tomorrow or whenever.

[nuhale]

Spoke with my tuner this AM and he confirmed that no way this engine was starting with all the changes I've made with deleting the IMRC, CMCV, LU47 injectors, GT350 intake with larger 4" throttle body etc etc. Writing me a temp tune to get it started until I can get it over there to dial in. I'm on hold now as leaving for a little vacation so hoping to give this another go next week.

[jiriza84641]

WOW, Bryan, that build is coming out very nice.

[nuhale]

Happy to report that we just got the engine fired. Been a stressful past few weeks as was pointing all signs to a tune with all my mods. My tuner has ghosted me for some reason and finally gave up and called another in the area. He told me what I suspected all along which was the thing should fire as I have it. May not run great but should fire. Had some time last 2 days and started going system to system trying to find the issue. Realized I wasn't getting spark so by process of elimination and borrowing some parts from my MKIV (same engine) I was able to find the problem. Pulled the crank shaft sensor out and swapped it into the MKIV and it didn't start. Problem solved. Put the roadster one in the coupe and BOOM, fired right up. Brought it up to temp and let the cooling system burp. Oil pressure looks to be ok hovering around 27/28psi at temp and rises as expected with a little RPM. Now I can move forward as this was a big roadblock. Onward!


https://youtu.be/-Hx9MWFzl48?si=kr_eawirI9xN8sE6

[nuhale]

https://youtu.be/cfvOOgqNcZU?si=45uMtFhGMTBkfieR

[PNWTim]

Great video - I love the filmographer's response.

[JimStone]

Awesome! Best part was the pure excitement from your son

[burchfieldb]

I think you just inspired the next generation! My son was not all that interested until I fired up the engine and he got to rev it for the first time. Now he is hooked.

[nuhale]

Help me spend my money (best use of this forum)!

I've been avoiding the interior/dash design for some time now. I want to go a little more modern on this build so considering a few options including push button start, door poppers, head unit and digital HVAC controller. Spent the AM just looking at switch options..

I see a lot of folks using the digital guard dawg PBS-I but looking for any recommendations on a system that can tie into door poppers. What have some of you used in this application?

I'm undecided on a stereo setup in the coupe. Didn't put one in the roadster and glad I didn't with noise. I have some ear plug headphones that work amazing, didn't break the bank and sound great while not blowing out my eardrums. I'm more interested in a head unit for apple car play features like GPS, txts and rear camera. I may put in a low depth unit for these features and have the option to wire in speakers down the road. In case anyone interested in the earphones. I highly recommend.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074NCJZSZ?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_ti tle_1&th=1

Considering this in place of the supplied temp control/ac control:
https://www.amazon.com/Dakota-Digital-DCC-Climate-Control/dp/B08GRKY5JQ/ref=asc_df_B08GRKY5JQ?mcid=c6754b3a19b839bda7b7889 afd355652&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696702039754&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12167938897085197575&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9021445&hvtargid=pla-996044617115&psc=1

I was going back and forth on a digital gauge cluster but decided to stick with the speedhut gauges. As I plan a more sinister look getting rid of the chrome bezels for black and sent the Speedo/Tach back to have the backs changed to white. The other gauges (fuel, op, temp, volt) will stay with black back.

[PNWTim]

I understood the PBS-II setup from DGD can actuate several things, including door poppers.

https://www.digitalguarddawg.com/auto

As far as the temp controller goes I would check with Dakota Digital re: compatibility as I know this unit is engineered specifically for the VA Gen IV units. DD typically adds a module as well which can take up behind the dash real estate.

[Shakey]

Great looking build! You're making some nice progress. I think you made the 100% correct choice on the wheels and wheel color. I am a bit biased though.

V/r

Shakey

[JimStone]

It seems like everyone is using the Digital Guard Dawg. I had it in Summit cart for weeks but just couldn't justify the cost. I'm just wiring a push button switch to the starter and keep the keyed ignition switch.

I'm not sure what the DGD adds. Extra security? I mean, kind of. But I'm not leaving my car downtown Detroit.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I'm not sure what the DGD adds. Extra security? I mean, kind of. But I'm not leaving my car downtown Detroit.

You know what I have instead of Digital Guard Dog? Insurance.

;)

Jeff

[Blitzboy54]

I'm going with an RFID push button start. Has nothing to do with security but on my first car every time I got in it when I wasn't at home (left the keys in it when it was in the garage) I would forget to pull the keys out of my pocket. Then I would be fully strapped in then realize I had to get out of the car to reach my keys. This way I can just leave a key fob in my pocket and be good to go.

PS, I had the exact same problem on my first start Gen II. Only difference was my sensor was fine, I never installed the pulse ring. Had to tear the back end out and install it. Good to go now. Discovered my problem the right about the same time you did.


**Edit** Just realized you made this exact same comment on my thread. Lol

I should have paid closer attention, you had actually solved my problem but I didn't realize it yet***

[nuhale]

Been a 4 month pause on the coupe with ever-present work conflicts and LCS in there too. Great time as always seeing many of you in Columbus for the event. Was a great time sans the trailer blowing a bearing on the way home. Amazing rescue effort from the boys to get me back on the road and home safely.

Checking in as I have a few weeks grounded in July and hoping to make some progress. For the moment doing some upkeep on the MK4 with it springing a few leaks after LCS. Not sure what Leprechaun I wronged but seems like my luck hit a bad spell this month with the trailer, a leaking power steering rack, a leaking transmission and a leaky differential. Lets call it some 12k mile 5 year maintenance. Replacing the pump and re-seating the AN rack fittings. Have the Forte power steering/hydroboost setup and the GM Type 2 pump leaking and making some noise... replaced. The trans (I recently rebuilt with all new carbon syncros and internals) has a small leak from the speedo plug. Cant seem to get a new o-ring to seat in the damn thing so ordered a new plug.

Differential is a strange one. Leak is a pinion seal... no biggie, just a pain. I did notice something strange. I have older IRS Lincoln MK8 Diff. I know it's a LSD but when notice that the wheels rotate counter when up on stands. This would indicate open? I tore apart to inspect and verify that the LSD carrier was good and all looks normal. Once I unbolted and drained the diff the wheels now move directionally. So weird. Cant make sense of it.

Hoping to wrap up the MK4 maintenance today and move on to the the dash layout and wiring for the forgotten coupe project. Trying to get back at it!

[Lugnut Mark]

So I noticed that you have the forgestar f-14 wheels on your coupe.. Are those 19 inch and if so what is the sizing of those wheels so they fit the car (ie) backspace for off for front and rear please ....I would like to get the forgestars as well thanks in advanced!!

[Lugnut Mark]

Please disregard my last post I found Logans post with the wheel sizes as spec-ed out by snowman Thanks !!

[nuhale]

So I noticed that you have the forgestar f-14 wheels on your coupe.. Are those 19 inch and if so what is the sizing of those wheels so they fit the car (ie) backspace for off for front and rear please ....I would like to get the forgestars as well thanks in advanced!!

No problem, would have directed you to the repository anyway. Tires are a bit limited for this size but went with the Yokohama adven apex V601 as I wanted a tire in the 200TW range.

[Lugnut Mark]

I just got off the phone with Tim from Forgestar I went ahead and purchased the wheels as per snowmans specs with a 6 to 8 week turnaround should arrive around the same time as my kit .... my completion date is 9/20/25 ....Looking forward to getting started Thanks for the help !!

[Lugnut Mark]

I was wondering how guys were coating those panels in gold heat shield .... after a little research found some at both home depot and amazon at a reasonable cost ... Thanks for the info !!!

[nuhale]

Got the MK4 roadster maintenance done so made some progress this weekend on the coupe project. Have the dash somewhat figured out and roughed in. Borrowing some design from some nice builds I've seen including Paul's coupe and Hacksaws' MK4. Mounting the dash similar to what Paul did so no visible hardware. Decided to ditch the headlamp pull and switches from FFR and use all 1" buttons w/ blue LED to control the headlamps, foglamps, DRL, hazard etc. I plan to have the ignition hidden or on the tunnel panel. I also am planning a 12v damper to on/off the defroster vents so they are not always pushing air. Have a fairly large screen that will be mounted on lower tunnel panel for carplay etc. Decided on not putting a sound system in this thing as it seems kinda pointless. I have found my ear-plug headphones to be amazing and this can control them w/o having to grab phone. Good for GPS, back up cam. Bought a glove box from Brent at Snakebite motorworks... His stuff is really nice and well constructed. Highly recommend. Also leaning towards going forward with the power side windows from Forma. Big spend but I think would be a better, more enjoyable result when finished. Spent much time looking at these at LCS and they are really nice.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216850&d=1753623273

Maybe the last person on earth but just started playing with AI ChatGPT. I'm a bit surprised at what this tool can do. Playing around with some design concepts with going black with bronze stripes. Kinda a Hertz style. What do you think?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216851&d=1753623273

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216852&d=1753623273

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216853&d=1753623273

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=216854&d=1753623273

[edwardb]

Dash looks nice. Some good ideas there. No idea yet what I'm going to do with the dash in my Mk5 Roadster. FWIW, 9,000 miles in 4-1/2 seasons with our Coupe and don't miss roll-up windows. It's warm and loud in there even in mild weather. Agree the Formacars ones are nice. But a pretty significant mod from I can tell. Love the black and gold colors. Only comment -- make the interior even warmer?

[PNWTim]

I like the color scheme - it is reminiscent of the Hertz units of days gone by. You're making good progress and your dash is well thought out.

[nuhale]

Dash looks nice. Some good ideas there. No idea yet what I'm going to do with the dash in my Mk5 Roadster. FWIW, 9,000 miles in 4-1/2 seasons with our Coupe and don't miss roll-up windows. It's warm and loud in there even in mild weather. Agree the Formacars ones are nice. But a pretty significant mod from I can tell. Love the black and gold colors. Only comment -- make the interior even warmer?

Thats what AC and window tint is for! :)

[Al_C]

Just my two cents: I like it! If it were me, I'd go with the Forma windows. I think they look good and give the interior a more "open" feel. I think you're smart in taking your time to plan your dash and interior. OK, enough with my opinions.

[edwardb]

That's what AC and window tint is for! :)

I wasn't being critical about your color ideas. Heat was just the first thing i thought now that we're in the middle of a relatively hot summer. You've probably read the multiple posts about the FF A/C system. It's OK but won't freeze you out that's for sure. I am considering tinting the hatchback glass in mine. I suspect that would make a difference. Windshield might help too, but haven't seen or heard much about that.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...I am considering tinting the hatchback glass in mine. I suspect that would make a difference...

My personal experience with customer Coupes is that tint on the hatch glass makes a noticeable difference.

Jeff

[JimStone]

Dash looks great! I'm a fan of the push bottoms too. And the white background Speedo/Tach. :cool:

That color combo is slick. Definitely haven't seen one like that before

[460.465USMC]

Maybe the last person on earth but just started playing with AI ChatGPT. I'm a bit surprised at what this tool can do. Playing around with some design concepts with going black with bronze stripes. Kinda a Hertz style. What do you think?

You're the second to last person to play with AI. ;)

I dig your color scheme. Looks great. I'm also planning black, but with white stripes.

[Lugnut Mark]

The Black and bronze rendering looks amazing!

[nuhale]

Seeking some support from the community on wiring challenge. The gen 2 coyote control pack presents a well documented issue with the built in fan controller switching on when computer calls for it but never shuts off. I have used the MFA136 maradyne controller in place of computer controller on my MK4 build and it works great. Planning to do the same for the coupe build but not sure how to integrate the MFA136 pulse width modulation controller with my AC system.

See the proposed schematic. As the Maradyne MF136 controls the fan speed via ground PWM, would relaying a ground to the fan controlled by the trinary switch (or +12 from compressor clutch) damage the fan controller? I can't see why it would but hoping some EE's out there can chime in.

Anyone successfully wire a MFA136 to an AC system and if not this method, how did you accomplish?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=219915&d=1759947224

[edwardb]

Regarding your fan controller and A/C installation. I'm not an EE but do have some thoughts. I've done a couple A/C installations. One with a Coyote. The other an LS but wired exactly the same. I'm wondering why you're trying to link the Maradyne fan controller into the A/C and trinary switch. How would you wire the Coyote controlled fan and add the Maradyne controller without A/C? Wire it that way. That provides one way for the fan to be triggered powered by the Coyote system. The A/C system is powered through the RF fan circuit. The ground wire goes to the trinary switch, and when triggered (by pressure, temperature, whatever) it will trigger the fan to run. When I first saw this on my first installation (my Coupe) I questioned Factory Five about having two possible power sources and events that could power the cooling fan. They said it would be OK and it has been. Coupe is finishing it's fifth season and the A/C, cooling fan, etc. works as it should.

As I'm typing this I'm wondering if you're trying to use the Maradyne controller to also limit fan running when triggered by the trinary switch? My suggestion above wouldn't do that of course and I'm not even sure it's possible. My experience with A/C wired in my Coupe like I described (without the controller) doesn't typically have long runs triggered by the trinary switch. In fact they're usually pretty brief.

[Skuzzy]

It is true, having more than one source of power to the fan is not really a problem, but in the case of one of the power sources being a PWM driven signal, it will cause the fan motor to run a bit hotter than it would normally run. It may not have any effect on the life of the motor.

Another option is to use a relay to shut off power to the Maradyne unit and switch to direct battery feed when the trinary switch triggers.

If you want to keep the Maradyne unit hot when the trinary switch triggers, I would incorporate a Zener diode into the ground wire of the Maradyne unit as a safety measure.

[nuhale]

Regarding your fan controller and A/C installation. I'm not an EE but do have some thoughts. I've done a couple A/C installations. One with a Coyote. The other an LS but wired exactly the same. I'm wondering why you're trying to link the Maradyne fan controller into the A/C and trinary switch. How would you wire the Coyote controlled fan and add the Maradyne controller without A/C? Wire it that way. That provides one way for the fan to be triggered powered by the Coyote system. The A/C system is powered through the RF fan circuit. The ground wire goes to the trinary switch, and when triggered (by pressure, temperature, whatever) it will trigger the fan to run. When I first saw this on my first installation (my Coupe) I questioned Factory Five about having two possible power sources and events that could power the cooling fan. They said it would be OK and it has been. Coupe is finishing it's fifth season and the A/C, cooling fan, etc. works as it should.

As I'm typing this I'm wondering if you're trying to use the Maradyne controller to also limit fan running when triggered by the trinary switch? My suggestion above wouldn't do that of course and I'm not even sure it's possible. My experience with A/C wired in my Coupe like I described (without the controller) doesn't typically have long runs triggered by the trinary switch. In fact they're usually pretty brief.

Thanks for the feedback Paul. Yes, I could pull right from the coyote CPU and wiring which gives a +12v when computer says "ON". Problem is with the GEN 2 control pack once the fan is signaled "ON" it does not shut off. GEN 3 and beyond cycle on/off as needed. This is why I'm looking to employ the PWM separate fan control. The variable speed is a bonus. There are other PWM controller out there that have built in override switches for AC signal that I may need to pivot to.

[edwardb]

Thanks for the feedback Paul. Yes, I could pull right from the coyote CPU and wiring which gives a +12v when computer says "ON". Problem is with the GEN 2 control pack once the fan is signaled "ON" it does not shut off. GEN 3 and beyond cycle on/off as needed. This is why I'm looking to employ the PWM separate fan control. The variable speed is a bonus. There are other PWM controller out there that have built in override switches for AC signal that I may need to pivot to.

Yes, I totally understand. Sorry if it wasn't clear from my response. I experienced it myself as I noted. The response from Skuzzy described how there might be an issue if the full +12V from the trinary circuit and the PWM signal from the controller happened at the same time it could be an issue. Something I hadn't considered and why I didn't claim to be an EE. :rolleyes:

Separate unrelated note -- don't know if you're following my Mk5 build. I used the Coyote manifold plate you let me borrow to install the Aluminator in my build. Worked great! Huge improvement over the usual lifting brackets. I was initially reluctant to remove the intake. But wasn't a big deal as you said. Major thanks.

[Skuzzy]

Forget my last suggestion. I failed to grasp the trinary switch never shutting off the fan.

Try this. Use the clutch activation wire to power a relay which would by-pass the PWM signal from the Maradyne unit and power the fan as long as the compressor is running. Personally, I would shut power off to the Maradyne unit, instead of cutting the PWM signal to the fan.

I know my PWM controller takes less than 250ms to come back online when power is switched off and on again. I cannot imagine the Maradyne unit taking any longer than that.

[DW66]

I used the A/C clutch activation wire to power a relay as Skuzzy suggested but my relay is grounding the fan (Fan has constant 12V power). I'm certainly not an EE but its worked fine for about 10K miles.

Dave

[nuhale]

Thanks for all the suggestions folks. DW66 sent me his wiring diagram and is essentially the same thing I was proposing with relaying a solid ground connection to the fan ciruit when the compressor kicks on. To document this there are other PWM controllers out there (Mr. Cool) that have a built in AC override switch that will run fan 1/2 speed when AC is activated. I may just bite the bullet and spend the $200 for one for peace of mind.

[Skuzzy]

Thanks for all the suggestions folks. DW66 sent me his wiring diagram and is essentially the same thing I was proposing with relaying a solid ground connection to the fan ciruit when the compressor kicks on. To document this there are other PWM controllers out there (Mr. Cool) that have a built in AC override switch that will run fan 1/2 speed when AC is activated. I may just bite the bullet and spend the $200 for one for peace of mind.

The controller I have designed has the clutch activation lead going to it, which signals my controller to keep the fan running no lower than 65% duty cycle. I can adjust that on the fly via the info pod. The water pump then gets adjusted to keep the engine temperature nominal.

You just gave me the idea to add a couple of markers to the info pod showing minimal duty cycles.

Well, this was the straw that broke things. I am going to have to add a USB port to be able to update the firmware while the unit is in the car. I really did not want to do that, as it introduces a whole list of things that need to be done to make that work well.

Dang it nuhale! You guys need to stop making me think about this!! :)

[Nigel Allen]

Another solution would be to fudge the value that is being seen by the maradyne controller. This would be as simple as increasing or reducing the resistance value that is sent from the temperature sensor. This would fool the controller and cause it to run at a higher speed. The resistor could be switched in and out, using a relay that is driven by the compressor clutch.

In fact, it might be as simple as shorting the sensor to ground or open circuiting it to get maximum speed. Pretty easy to experiment.

Using a high current relay to interrupt the pwm signal may cause issues or damage the controller.
Cheers,
Nige

[Skuzzy]

Another solution would be to fudge the value that is being seen by the maradyne controller. This would be as simple as increasing or reducing the resistance value that is sent from the temperature sensor. This would fool the controller and cause it to run at a higher speed. The resistor could be switched in and out, using a relay that is driven by the compressor clutch.

In fact, it might be as simple as shorting the sensor to ground or open circuiting it to get maximum speed. Pretty easy to experiment.

Using a high current relay to interrupt the pwm signal may cause issues or damage the controller.
Cheers,
Nige

Yes, using a resistor to alter the value to the Maradyne unit could work. Just take a measurement of the resistance when the fan is not being run by the Maradyne unit and get a matching resistor.

And yes, you never want to interrupt a PWM driven signal, or damage can occur to the MOSFET's driving the signal. You could use a load resistor and take the signal to ground.

[nuhale]

Thanks all! I've decided to go a different route with a controller that has a built in AC interruption switch and call it. I have a maradyne controller for sale!