Starting Something Simple [Archive]

NicksPapaw

02-17-2011, 06:13 AM

Be careful Papa. Don't make it look like another production car sitting in lots across America. Drink a lot of coffee, then make it Edgy!! Give it a futuristic look, like something out of star wars. Just giving you my $.02, which in today's economy is worth about $.01. ha ha I wish I had your skills. Keep the models coming.

s_martin

02-17-2011, 01:26 PM

Pointier than I imagined... Kidding, of course.

I know I posted this pic in another post, but I just think the simple lines and basic shape are great. It was mentioned adding usable lights may make it look bug eyed, but if you could put some projector beams just above the grill opening like the 90's Integra.

Also for the ease of manufacture/assembly all the panels could be the same color, and it could be a single piece for the main body shell. Although it might be ok to have the body piece and roof be separate, as someone mentioned removing them for track use.

Getting a windshield and top added... a lot more work, but this shape for the bottom half looks a lot like what you have.

Random thoughts. Great work so far, keep them coming.

Later,

Wayne Presley

02-17-2011, 02:22 PM

I'm starting from basics so I can change & tweak as I go.

http://www.kindcareinc.com//kattak/kattak01.jpg

http://www.kindcareinc.com//kattak/kattak02.jpg

Some people are seriously over qualified for this contest....Nice work Kouros

riptide motorsport

02-17-2011, 02:41 PM

I like it, just make sure it has decent headlights, I mean not looking like they were just swapped out of an existing car...............Steven

Kc_Shane

02-17-2011, 03:00 PM

I'm starting from basics so I can change & tweak as I go.

http://www.kindcareinc.com//kattak/kattak01.jpg

http://www.kindcareinc.com//kattak/kattak02.jpg

Keep up the work. You have a good start and the talent to make something great. You can also call it the FFR Kouros.

Martin

02-17-2011, 03:19 PM

Keep up the work. You have a good start and the talent to make something great. You can also call it the FFR Kouros.

That would actually be pretty awesome (winning the design competition and the name competition)

KOUROS

02-17-2011, 08:43 PM

http://www.kindcareinc.com//kattak/kattak03.jpg

http://www.kindcareinc.com//kattak/kattak04.jpg

http://www.kindcareinc.com//kattak/kattak05.jpg

Warlock

02-17-2011, 08:49 PM

Impressive! That looks great...

John Buzoianu

02-17-2011, 09:19 PM

Looks kinda like the front end of the Zenvo... Just my opinion. Nice models by the way, what program are you using?

riptide motorsport

02-17-2011, 09:20 PM

I really like !!@! And the name Kouros too!!!!!!!!! Our work is done here!:cool:

KOUROS

02-17-2011, 09:29 PM

Yes I picked up lines from the Zenvo. IMO its an aggressive look and I like it, but I'll be changing some stuff around, just like the difference between the first renderings and the second ones. Got to start someplace. 3dsmax, Maya...whatever else that comes along.

John Buzoianu

02-17-2011, 09:32 PM

The Zenvo most deffinitely has an aggressive look to it.

Kc_Shane

02-17-2011, 09:34 PM

I like the second set much better. Keep it up.

WhirlpoolBrewer

02-18-2011, 09:49 AM

I love your second wave of photos, THAT is the car I want to buy! lol, where do I order? But seriously, I would not change a single thing on that except MAYBE cut some holes where those "nostrols" drop in at the front. I'm not sure I would even do that though. But I REALLY want that or something VERY similar to that as the hood. Good job!

VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC

02-18-2011, 11:52 AM

Very Nice! The Zenvo is another great example of how you can use the simple round Hella headlights and tail lights, and design the body to make them look great! The tail lights are standard Hella units.....outer LED ring with seperate indicatior lights that bolt inside the ring.

Jon A

02-18-2011, 12:29 PM

Kouros,

The second set of drawings is very cool. I think it is much more modern than the first set. Perhaps you can look to a variety of modern cars to get some inspiration... I am thinking newer Lambos, Pagani, Lotus Evora, Veyron, Carrera GT, Porsche 918, VW's roadster concept etc. That way we aren't borrowing too heavily from any one designer but we are getting a modern look.

There is some interest in an Exoskeleton car... perhaps something that is a bit of a hybrid between a true Exo car (like the Atom) and a full bodied car (like you are working on). The Atom has very few body panels... it might look cool with a few more. (Think weather-tight FFR Roadster at the Go-Cart Stage). If the car had exposed frame AND several separate body panels that each bolt on independent of the other, there would be no need (or virtually no need) for body work. For example, each quarter panel, the door sill, the doors, the hood, trunk/engine lid, rear bumper/tail-light area, front bumper, etc. could ALL be separate... and they don't even need to be full panels, they could be smaller parts that fit within exposed frame sections. Water tightness might be tough but I am sure with the proper over-laps and sealant it could work. It might also be easier for FFR in terms of production and shipping to deal with a bunch of small fiberglass pieces rather than one big body shell.

Just my $.02. Great work!!

-Jon A.

keys2heaven

02-18-2011, 01:32 PM

With a mid-engine arrangement, is it necessary to have such a HUGE grill opening? I refer to the sketch provided for this concept and really like the droop hood with modest detailing in the lower area.

Right now, the model reminds me of a pray mantis.

D2W

02-18-2011, 03:38 PM

I like! I can't wait until the actual design competition starts and we get to see what several people bring to the table.
DP

KOUROS

02-18-2011, 03:49 PM

Thanks for the comments and feedback.
There is long thread and the majority love the K1-Attack aggressiveness and look.
Whats very interesting is that my first set here IS the K1-Attack but without the grill and light opening.
The second set is still the K1-Attack but with Zenvo's Light and grill opening.
K2H has great point that the big grill opening is more fit to front engine car.
I'm also testing around with my own design for the competition.

VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC

02-18-2011, 04:06 PM

There is some interest in an Exoskeleton car... perhaps something that is a bit of a hybrid between a true Exo car (like the Atom) and a full bodied car (like you are working on). The Atom has very few body panels... it might look cool with a few more. (Think weather-tight FFR Roadster at the Go-Cart Stage). If the car had exposed frame AND several separate body panels that each bolt on independent of the other, there would be no need (or virtually no need) for body work. For example, each quarter panel, the door sill, the doors, the hood, trunk/engine lid, rear bumper/tail-light area, front bumper, etc. could ALL be separate... and they don't even need to be full panels, they could be smaller parts that fit within exposed frame sections. Water tightness might be tough but I am sure with the proper over-laps and sealant it could work. It might also be easier for FFR in terms of production and shipping to deal with a bunch of small fiberglass pieces rather than one big body shell.

Just my $.02. Great work!!

-Jon A.

IMO, there are already more exocars than you can shake a stick at.....all with varying degrees of body panels.

http://www.exocars.net/

If you throw in cars like the caterhams and Lotus 7 types in there, you already have over 2 dozen different kits to choose from. I'm hoping FFR is looking to do something a bit more "ground breaking" here......something you don't have to feel like putting on your leathers and helmet to go for a cruise.

VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC

02-18-2011, 04:15 PM

K2H has great point that the big grill opening is more fit to front engine car.

That's probably going to depend a lot on where FFR has planned on putting the radiator. If the radiator is going to be in the front (like the Attack), then the larger grill opening will work. Even with the radiator in the rear, you could retain the look of the large grille without actually making a large opening.....just like on the Zenvo......the area around the headlights appears to be an opening in the body, but is nothing more than a cosmetic piece.

Jon A

02-18-2011, 04:28 PM

I'm hoping FFR is looking to do something a bit more "ground breaking" here......something you don't have to feel like putting on your leathers and helmet to go for a cruise.

I hear you. I am not advocating for a true Exo Car... but I thought something with some exposed frame components and smaller body parts might be worth playing around with. I like the idea of small body parts rather than a huge shell that drapes over the entire frame. That way, it is a lot easier to manufacture, ship, sand/paint, replace in the event of a crash, etc. I still want to see it weather tight.

I can't wait to see what talented people (esp. Kouros since his is a home-town favorite) come up with!!

-Jon A.

riptide motorsport

02-18-2011, 06:11 PM

I like the aggressive laRGE GRILL OPENING..........Steven

Oppenheimer

02-19-2011, 07:32 PM

...If the car had exposed frame AND several separate body panels that each bolt on independent of the other, there would be no need (or virtually no need) for body work. For example, each quarter panel, the door sill, the doors, the hood, trunk/engine lid, rear bumper/tail-light area, front bumper, etc. could ALL be separate... and they don't even need to be full panels, they could be smaller parts that fit within exposed frame sections...
-Jon A.

I was thinking along the very same lines. For the reasons of all the benefits you mention (and mention in another reply, body repairs, etc). I'm thinking this needn't _look_ like an exo-skeleton, it just wouldn't be one, smooth, unbroken shape. It could end up looking quite aggressive.

Turboguy

02-19-2011, 08:09 PM

Kouros, just make it look like this:

http://www.allsportauto.com/photoautre/lancia/stratos/1974_lancia_stratos_36_sb.jpg

or this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/TGX55u-jmLI/AAAAAAADMrg/qR1He050_G8/s1600/New-Lancia-Stratos-1.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/TGX6ocCxFZI/AAAAAAADMso/VtEWo8o19Vg/s1600/New-Lancia-Stratos-3.jpg

Turboguy

02-19-2011, 08:11 PM

...or maybe like this, the Porsche 904:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3011/3092703773_fb9fe97eef.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IAg3qB6xNwU/TS9fGsG5fjI/AAAAAAAAA9E/9sIK-yDcarM/s1600/Picture+49.png

Dave @ FFR - there's a race car builder in Vancouver, Canada that has taken moulds off a REAL 904 body that he is selling, and cheap too. Let me know if you want his contact info.

UpstateCobraGuy

02-19-2011, 09:35 PM

I'm with Turboguy....Lancia Stratos

http://fineartamerica.com/images-medium/lancia-stratos-carart-matthew.jpg

Vintage Racing Heritage with modern engineering... Sound familiar????

Karlo

02-19-2011, 11:45 PM

...or maybe like this, the Porsche 904:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3011/3092703773_fb9fe97eef.jpg

Dave @ FFR - there's a race car builder in Vancouver, Canada that has taken moulds off a REAL 904 body that he is selling, and cheap too. Let me know if you want his contact info.

The replica is being done already and it is an improved faster version :)

http://www.beck904.com/

GUNS

02-20-2011, 12:14 AM

I think this isn't an issue, but I think FFR wants a modern look. Something original.

KOUROS

02-20-2011, 02:04 AM

Trying and comparing

http://www.kindcareinc.com//kattak/kattak06.jpg

subyrod

02-20-2011, 02:17 AM

Wow Kouros! I like all 3 of those. Keep 'em coming!

NicksPapaw

02-20-2011, 09:48 AM

Kouros, I think I know talent when I see it. Your last drawings show absolute PURE talent! I personally prefer 1 or 3, but, I cannot wait until I see your competetion drawings. Keep up the good work on Casper! (My shop name for the new car! :) ) I cannot wait to see the designs that come in.

keys2heaven

02-20-2011, 11:05 AM

I'd like to see an artist's impression of what the rear will look like. After all, this is what most people are going to see when I smoke them. :)

Oldtop

02-20-2011, 11:56 AM

Interesting blend of old and new styles...

KOUROS

02-20-2011, 12:28 PM

Nick,
1 is the K1-Attack and 3 is the K1-Attack with Zenvo light/grill opening. 2 is all mine and I'm not liking it when compared. Its very easy for me to use another car's defining lines. I'm trying to make it original, but when you study whats possible and whats out there, everything has been tried. So, still trying some lines.
-K

Turboguy

02-20-2011, 01:29 PM

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=545&d=1298220878

Jesus. That Porsche 918 is pure sex.

I want one.

UpstateCobraGuy

02-20-2011, 03:11 PM

KOUROS

02-20-2011, 03:58 PM

Its all speculation until March 1st, but are we doing another replica or original design? We don't know.

mjpeters

02-20-2011, 04:24 PM

The 918 is beautiful. I could see that with a removable top following the lines of the back over the seats.

Kouros I love the designs you working with. I wish I had the skill to do things like that on the computer.

Matt

VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC

02-20-2011, 06:48 PM

Its all speculation until March 1st, but are we doing another replica or original design? We don't know.

I'm guessing that since FFR has mentioned both the Stratos and also given us an "original design" pencil sketch, I would say it's still open as to what the end result will be. My personal view is that the "replica kit-car" has been done-to-death. Why would we want another replica of a now dated design. To me the best thing about the whole kit-car concept is that you can build cars that will be sold in limited quantities that no major auto maker would ever build. When was the last time you drove thru a parking lot and saw anything at all like the Attack, or a GTM, or Zenvo? I'm 40 years old, and I never have in my entire life.

If FFR makes this car to look like an old 904, everyone who sees it is automatically going to assume it's a kit car, built on a VW bug platform. I don't think anyone gets that impression when they look at the Attack, GTM or Zenvo. I'm not saying I'm in favor of doing a direct copy of any of those cars.....but I hope we keep it modern and original.....and not something that looks like it already belongs in the Smithsonian.

Hondaslayer

02-20-2011, 07:23 PM

Its all speculation until March 1st, but are we doing another replica or original design? We don't know.

No replicas, originality without being over the top is key. Cars like the Stratos, MR2/MR-S, Miura, Attack etc..... should be used only as inspiration, not copied.

Rotr8

02-20-2011, 07:52 PM

^^^ Agree with both of you.

riptide motorsport

02-20-2011, 08:58 PM

I concur ....steven

NicksPapaw

02-20-2011, 09:13 PM

Just my opinion, but, #2 just doesn't hold visual interest. I feel that the different angles, inlets, and lighting recesses all create a lot of things to look at. These things define the look or sex appeal of the car. Just like the curves of the Roadster, the visual appeal has to be perfect. Keep up the drawings. Loving your work.

redsharK

02-20-2011, 10:28 PM

KOUROS: take your version and try it with several of the different stock Subaru headlight shapes
Since this is supposed to be a low cost super car, keeping costs down, re-using donor car parts is a good thing.

like the 04-05 wrx headlight
http://i.ebayimg.com/15/!CFQG(SQ!mk~$(KGrHqZ,!k4E1F3)1NyUBNUeWw,46g~~0_12. JPG[/QUOTE]

keys2heaven

02-21-2011, 10:21 AM

Rotr8

02-21-2011, 10:50 AM

Good logical suggestion if the build was singularly based on an 04-05 chassis, that would save some cost, but you'd have to demand that everyone buy an 04-05 Mk car, and that will slim down on donor potential.

subyrod

02-21-2011, 12:01 PM

From 2002-2007, there were 3 headlight designs. 2002-03 "bugeye", 04-05 "peanut" and 06-07 "hawkeye". Each headlight design is unique. I'm not sure any of the 3 would fit for a 2 seat sports car with a more swept back hood design.

redsharK

02-21-2011, 10:52 PM

But this type of headlight is readily available on Ebay for $300 pair and it may work great with some designs that will come out

Justen

02-22-2011, 09:22 AM

If we can use the internals of the headlights that may be a good option too so we dont have to buy new headlights, but we arent stuck with the style of the housing. I agree it would be nice and keep cost down but also agree with subyrod that the style may not fit the swept back look of the hood we are hoping for

BrandonDrums

02-22-2011, 09:38 AM

Well, remember there's the bugeye 02-03, blobeye 04-05 and eagle eye 06-07. I imagine most of the donors will be older like 02-04.

Re-using trim pieces might not be an option from the donor but you can perhaps utilize oem head and taillights that are already in production from any car you want. That keeps the cost down of having to source a manufacturer for a new design which will probably only be for low-volume.

Kinda like what Mark Smith did with his Smyth Performance MR project. http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=354477354119&aid=324137

KOUROS

02-23-2011, 09:14 PM

Still Carving it out to different shapes. 2000Lbs is tough.:confused:
http://www.kindcareinc.com//kattak/kattak07.jpg

http://www.kindcareinc.com//kattak/kattak08.jpg

UpstateCobraGuy

02-23-2011, 09:33 PM

Kouros,

My 11 year old son gives you a big thumbs up, he said "It looks like a futuristic C0bra".

Rotr8

02-23-2011, 10:03 PM

your getting pinching in your turbosmooth,,,

KOUROS

02-23-2011, 10:05 PM

Wow!.....You know....I've been looking at this and tumbling it on my screen for 3 days while working on it and never realized how similar it actually is to a C*bra. The muscles over the wheel wells, the angry mouth and forward looking eyes.....He is right. Tell him good-eye. There is some talent right there.

Flashburn

02-23-2011, 10:08 PM

Kourus,
How about one with a low to the ground nose that slopes up without disrupting airflow. Reduced drag and increased downforce.

Let me illustrate:
http://www.mobileblog.us/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Honda_Racing.jpg

KOUROS

02-23-2011, 10:10 PM

Yes, its preliminary quick tessellation. I hate turbosmooth. I'll be moving it over to Maya for nurbs from scratch. I don't really want to commit to anything solid yet as the Design specs will roll out on 3/5.
You model?

KOUROS

02-23-2011, 10:13 PM

That form is ideal. I personally like it. However, I was considering that FFR already has the GTM with somewhat a low-nose.

redsharK

02-23-2011, 10:14 PM

@ Kouros
I see that as a Japanese looking modern cobra and...
I see a little eclipse 97-99 face, only a little more angular and some evo X

Rotr8

02-23-2011, 10:20 PM

I dont know its too much like a fat version of the new Exige bumper refresh which will be out about the same time FFR plans to launch http://i52.tinypic.com/2wgy9vd.jpg

The Honda HSV has a very nice shape with a low frontal cross section,

Kasmodean

02-23-2011, 10:54 PM

Still Carving it out to different shapes. 2000Lbs is tough.:confused:
http://www.kindcareinc.com//kattak/kattak07.jpg

http://www.kindcareinc.com//kattak/kattak08.jpg

Wow, this looks AWESOME! I love the big front opennings, plus it makes lots of room for large radiators and all sorts of coolers.

PERRNjeff

02-23-2011, 11:26 PM

I am for sure a Fan of the Mitsu EVO X, which that design is very similar to. That contrasting black Darth Vader look is really sweet.

But with that said i am also a huge Subaru fan and i think that there are a growing number of Subaru enthusiast interested in this car which could become the driving factor for design. Any Subaru fan is going to instantly see the EVO styling and instantly you are going to loose a bunch of customers. There has always been this STI vs EVO thing and if you put a Subaru engine in an EVO the world might come to end. Or at least Zombies will rise from the grave.

Now if FFR makes a similar car based off a donor EVO.......

redsharK

02-23-2011, 11:44 PM

I like both Subaru's and Mitsubishi's, both brands have seriously kick *** 4 cylinders.
I think David has made the right choice in a world car platform with the wrx drive train.
Even if it ends up $20k completed and down the road with a 300+whp power train
it will run 11's in the 1/4 and 0-60 in the high 3's
What an awesome bargain if it handles like a slot car too!

sonicrex

02-23-2011, 11:44 PM

I'm not gonna lie, I saw EVO. :( I kinda like it though.

subyrod

02-23-2011, 11:49 PM

I see EVO X storm trooper nose but I like it. I dont' think the evo vs suby battle will come into play here. I mean, sure the nose resembles an exo X grille, but the rest of the car is sports car. My pennies worth...

I am for sure a Fan of the Mitsu EVO X, which that design is very similar to. That contrasting black Darth Vader look is really sweet.

But with that said i am also a huge Subaru fan and i think that there are a growing number of Subaru enthusiast interested in this car which could become the driving factor for design. Any Subaru fan is going to instantly see the EVO styling and instantly you are going to loose a bunch of customers. There has always been this STI vs EVO thing and if you put a Subaru engine in an EVO the world might come to end. Or at least Zombies will rise from the grave.

Now if FFR makes a similar car based off a donor EVO.......

D2W

02-24-2011, 12:29 AM

I like the front design, short overhangs, looks angry. But I would like to see softer edges, more flow. more like the 918 than the attack.
DP

Someday I Suppose

02-24-2011, 08:34 AM

K-Man, that is sick looking, mean for sure. My only thoughts go back to the mid-engine, and where those big openings are going to lead too. I don't think we know yet where the radiator is going to live.

_Scott

JRL

02-24-2011, 11:11 AM

That black Honda is the ticket

DougR

02-24-2011, 11:42 AM

Kouros, as a roadster owner you know that those large nose openings create a lot of air that has to go somewhere. On the street it may not be a big issue but there are some of us who may have dreams of putting one of these on the track. Be sure to give us a route to get rid of that air. Of course that opening may not be necessary depending on where FFR locates the radiator, inter-cooler and other items. Be sure to give us a place for brake cooling ducts. I'm thinking a base/street design and an add on aero/track package for those who desire that. Some may want that for functionality, others just for looks. Keep up the good work. I look forward to your design(s).