Oil Pan Leak Thoughts and Comments Requested

[Theshandman]

Issue Resolved. See my post below.

After about 400 miles on my 'new' SBF 347, I noticed a few drops of oil on the garage floor directly under the oil pan. Ok, let's see how it goes. After 700 miles, now it's 4 drops of oil each week. I could see some weeping around the perimeter of the pan/block interface. Time to have a look inside.

Dropped the pan and saw the mounting bolt holes on the top of the pan flange are dimpled, deformed and every hole stretched-some worse than others-as if the bolts were over torqued and the alignment of pan bolt holes to block holes was force fitted by resizing the pan bolt holes. This strikes me as 'Not Found Good'. A few random holes are perfectly flat to the flange.

Questions:
On the pan-block interface, should the pan flange be flat around all 22 bolt holes or dimpled as shown in the pics? I put a rule edge on the dimples to show what's going on there. It seems to me the oil leak stems from a somewhat corrugated surface of the pan flange preventing a solid contact between the pan / gasket / block, perhaps caused by the bolts having been over torqued at the factory? The compressible gasket material may have allowed such dimpling?

Also- is it a good idea to use a flat washer on the pan bolts to maybe spread the torque force (if that's even a term)? The bolts that were used are lock bolts, no washer (the bolt shoulder is knurled).

Thanks all!
Art

194138 194139 194140

[rich grsc]

Flat, way over torqued bolts. Ford factory pans had a one piece pan support that that the bolts pass through. If you can find them, other wise use use washers

[michael everson]

I would try flattening those with a hammer and anvil. If that doesnt work, get a new pan. Some gaskets have metal rings around the holes so that doesn't happen.
Mike

[Ted G]

Curious on what gasket was in there? One piece or four? Also, what brand pan? Canton?

[jts359]

Whom ever installed that oil pan needs some serious talking to , And you have to wonder what else did he attack on the engine ? Ed

[Ford & Jeep Fan]

This is what you need (AFTER you hammer the pan flat) I can't believe how much these have went up in price. They were std equipment in fox mustangs after about 1983??

https://www.cjponyparts.com/media/catalog/product/cache/12b9ca0f8aaf696bea26173ccf5b8795/m/6/m6674302_1.1291.jpg

https://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-racing-oil-pan-reinforcement-rail-pair-289-302-1965-1995/p/M6674302/?msclkid=7a8b17906be61839cf537208f6e3a00b&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Bing%20Dynamic%20Search&utm_term=%2Fp%2F&utm_content=Dynamic%20Search%20Ads

[GoDadGo]

I'd replace the pan, if it is beyond repaire, and see if you can upgrade the gasket to a one piece unit like the items in the link below:

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/oil-pan-gaskets/make/ford/engine-size/5-0l-302/one-piece-gasket/yes?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Default&gclid=CjwKCAiA7t6sBhAiEiwAsaieYiKFIzYluD-qwC9jQqW3oOVNz91SStwlYmSZsb8wqukJZMyqiBvQehoC5DkQA vD_BwE

[Ford & Jeep Fan]

just found these same rails new for $50 they are about 3/16ths thick.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175783195601?hash=item28ed7eb3d1:g:-10AAOSweppkk0Ku&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0Gn%2BZI0kjy6whRmn3w5AcaSjFcv mrOnM1QSfLxmS9hjlg48jZY%2FwBYH9syuC4giCrC2aeEifwqv 4YhoOZqEa4zus9lmatNT790tS1nSUz8cFcbz4aSA0HArtjL%2F MXP16QGzykA%2FqM2icz0DCQrAgrMtXg7DmTdg2wsordvnY%2B Xy98mSa%2BKiA74ngZeAUvezkZDKvfhoAtKUdqCdQXnGLj3BgW UCVpDOa57WiS7AeZNqbOiNepMXBswIsS5NL4BrYYrAjpmRFCmb PS1244x8YT6Y%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5yVv8WbYw

[CraigS]

I flatten the pan holes out by putting the smaller ball pean hammer against the risen area and hitting it w/ another hammer. I have never had good luck using the 1 piece silicone gaskets from under the car. I use a 4 piece. I super clean the area of the block/bearing cap where the half moon pieces go. If the groove is dry they will usually stay in position against gravity. I have also used a bit of trim cement to keep them there. I use standard sealer to glue the gasket side pieces to the pan and put a little extra where the side pieces will meet the half moon pieces. I also put a tiny dab of sealer on the end of each bolt. Not to seal it, but to act as a low grade loctite. I tighten the bolts a little at a time going around and around the pan. A 1/4" ratchet, an extension, and socket is all you need. NO power tools. Tighten each bolt until you feel it get just slightly tight. Now the next one will have a bit of looseness because you pulled the pan tighter to the block. So take the looseness out of the next bolt. And so on. Once all bolts feel slightly tight, go around one more time and give each about 1/4 turn. This takes no muscle at all, just a flick of your wrist. These bolts are not very tight which is why I use sealer on the threads.

[Jim1855]

To add to Craig's comments.

One thing I've done is use short lengths (3-4") threaded rod as a guides in the corner holes when installing the pan. This helps to properly locate the pan to the block and assist with holding it in place. Once pressed to the block with one hand you can then start screws with the other. An even tightening sequence as Craig mentioned is important.

Jim

[PG_Cobra]

On the FelPro one piece gasket for sbf, OS34508R, it comes with 4 plastic "snapups". They screw into the larger holes by the crank. Al the pieces, gasket, pan, and rails, retain on these "snapups" and align everything so you can bolt it up. Clean and degrease then use blobs of sealant in the corners by the crank as you assemble.

[Guardm16]

Just because I am curious that way; Who built your engine? If it was a professional company than yes, they need a serious talking to; If it was you and your friends then, lesson learned and chalk it up to won't make that mistake again. As for the Oil Pan Reinforcement Rails....Pure gold. Just my opinion.

[Theshandman]

Thanks guys, all great info and much appreciated. It matches what I suspected was the way it should be.

I'll answer a few Q's from above: The pan is made by Canton. It did have a four piece gasket set with way too much RTV (in my opinion). The engine (B347FKTKX) was purchased from BPE. I presume Canton ships pans to BPE who in turn assembles them to the engines. I purchased a replacement FelPro OS34508R that does have the four corner snap-ups.

I gotta say, I'm disappointed with how the pan was bolted on. I picture a minimum wage high school kid working the line with no training (who absolutely does need a talking to). Ok, so maybe that's a bit snarky, and BPE does do a good job over all; I'm pretty happy with my engine's performance. I've reached out to BPE's warranty / support teams hoping they do the right thing and send me a new pan.

[gbranham]

Yep, new pan, gasket with washers, new bolts, equalization bars, and be done with it.

[rich grsc]

There is NO need for a new pan. A few taps with a hammer and it will be flat. Just gets a set of pan rails, or add flat washers and DON"T over tighten.

[gbranham]

There is NO need for a new pan. A few taps with a hammer and it will be flat. Just gets a set of pan rails, or add flat washers and DON"T over tighten.

For sure it could be reused, but a new pan is, what, $75? That pan has been abused, boltholes stretched and reamed out, etc. I'm all for being frugal, but not that frugal. To each his own, I guess. Do it right the first time, and be done with it.

[rich grsc]

$75, right. You have obviously never bought a new oil pan. $350-$600 depending on what you want. Judging by the bump out on the pan, it's about $500

[gbranham]

Yep, for a baffled pan, definitely more expensive. If he doesn't track the car though, a standard pan would work. And yes, they are under $100. I've bought many that work fine. Also have bought many expensive baffled pans.

[Fman]

It looks like Blue Print built your engine? I would contact them and have them send you a new pan, gasket, etc... you should not have to flatten out existing pan for something they made a mistake on and did not install properly. Just my .02

[Theshandman]

Oil Pan Leaks Resolved.

Thanks all for the comments and thoughts posted above.

I reached out to BluePrint Engines Support / Warranty and sent them pics of the dimpled pan bolt holes. BPE agreed the pan had been damaged (they suspect how it happened but weren't willing to share their thoughts) and sent me a new, replacement pan (Canton) and gaskets. Kudos to BPE! Got it installed, this time with the addition of two side support brackets. No more pan leaks from around the seal. But oh no! There's that same 2 drops per week leak from the drain bung I had with the original pan. Bad crush washer? Again? Drained the oil and inspected the bung. Yep, I think I see the problem.

The pans BPE uses on their 347FI builds (maybe other models) are black powder coated from Canton. The bung sholder gets coated as well as a few threads deep. The powder coated shoulder of the original and replacement bungs were not consistently flat. Ample torque -per spec- on the bung bolt did not seal the bung adequately on both pans. A few drops a week are a few too many. After removing the powder coat on the shoulder and dressing the surface, no more leak around the bung. The pan has been dry for a week. I think Canton and/or BPE have an opportunity for a process improvement.

194946

[Daddy O]

Same problem with drain plug on Canton pan from BPE for me too. First one I dressed as you described after trying all manner of plugs and washers, still leaked. Sent me a new pan. Installed and that one also leaks from plug. I have some sealing washers like Breeze sells I will try at oil change. It is frustrating they seem to have a known problem. Like you, BPE customer service was great with me on it considering this is a vendor item for them.

[Mark Reynolds]

The root cause of the drain leaks is the threads on the half-height nut are not perpendicular with the face of the nut. This causes the copper washer to bottom out on one side and be loose on the opposite side and this is where the oil seeps out. If yours drips, remove and inspect the copper washer and you will find the shiny contact ring to not be a ring at all but a crescent. This is why Breeze started shipping Canton Pans with sealing washers years ago and and still offers sealing washers. They have enough compliance to make the seal. They are Parker Stat-O-Seal for 1/2" bolt size.