Aluminum Panels at start

[jklapp]

Just getting going on the build and I was planning on powder coating the exposed panels - firewall forward.

The first step in the build is to unscrew the aluminum panels. I'm wondering if I could drill and cleco in place and then remove to take for powder coating?

Any other highly visible panels I might want to consider powder coating?

Thanks!

[JohnK]

You definitely want to fit and drill all your panels before sending any out for powder coat.

What constitutes "highly visible" is a matter of perspective. I PC'ed all of my aluminum panels so that the car looks finished even when looking at the undercarriage.

[gbranham]

Per the assembly manual, before removing the panels, mark the back side of all of them where they touch the frame, then remove, mark your rivet holes on the panels from the back side where your marks are, drill, then put back on the car with the temporary self-tappers, then drill back through the holes into the frame. Once you've done all that, take off and send to PC.

FWIW, I was also only going to PC the exposed aluminum bits, but it wasn't that much more money to just do everything, since the PC guy had everything ready to go. I ended up doing every piece of aluminum.

[egchewy79]

yes, as mentioned before, mark, remove and drill all panels before PC.
I wanted my engine compartment one color but wheel wells black, so my F panels have different colors on both sides. I used spray on bed liner for the wheel wells so that can be easily touched up on the fly.
The back of the side cockpit walls forms the front of the rear wheel well, so if you want this not looking like raw aluminum, you'll need to get this PC'd as well. I realized this after the rear panel was already installed, so I just taped off the area, and sprayed bedliner on it while on the car.

[phileas_fogg]

The position of the panels as-shipped is preliminary at best. You’ll soon find out that many junctions will require compromise or finesse to get the best fit. My advice is to remove the panels (making pictures of how they overlap), and then fit them using clecos. When you’ve got them refit in their optimal location, then have them powder coated. You’ll have to use a reamer to get the rivet holes back to the correct diameter to accept the rivets.


John

[BlueSilver]

Why do many people have the aluminum panels powder coated? Is it because it is a much more durable finish then paint? I believe most people have the frame powder coated by FFR. Having the panels and frame coated will prevent steel from touching aluminum. Not sure if the rivets are steel or aluminum but there would be 2 different metals touching and does galvanic corrosion occur? Is this nothing to worry about?

[jklapp]

Thanks. I was wondering if the panels received on the kit were "close" for shipping purposes or they put time in aligning and fastening them. I have not looked too closely yet, but now I have my answer ("close"). -Joel



The position of the panels as-shipped is preliminary at best. You’ll soon find out that many junctions will require compromise or finesse to get the best fit. My advice is to remove the panels (making pictures of how they overlap), and then fit them using clecos. When you’ve got them refit in their optimal location, then have them powder coated. You’ll have to use a reamer to get the rivet holes back to the correct diameter to accept the rivets.


John

[jklapp]

I was going to do it for aesthetics - black engine bay. I wanted a durable and smooth finish, and to hire it out. (I don't enjoy painting). You can leave the panel bare if you want. Others paint, some scuff and clear coat. From what I've read, you can also coat some panels with a coating like Sharkhide or Raptor liner to add sound deadening.


Why do many people have the aluminum panels powder coated? Is it because it is a much more durable finish then paint? I believe most people have the frame powder coated by FFR. Having the panels and frame coated will prevent steel from touching aluminum. Not sure if the rivets are steel or aluminum but there would be 2 different metals touching and does galvanic corrosion occur? Is this nothing to worry about?

[gbranham]

Why do many people have the aluminum panels powder coated? Is it because it is a much more durable finish then paint? I believe most people have the frame powder coated by FFR. Having the panels and frame coated will prevent steel from touching aluminum. Not sure if the rivets are steel or aluminum but there would be 2 different metals touching and does galvanic corrosion occur? Is this nothing to worry about?

Because it looks better than paint, is more durable than paint, and looks better than the bare aluminum that inevitably gets hazy.

On my MkIII, I left it all bare. I hated seeing the 'patina' on all the exposed bits in the engine bay. On my current build, I went with powdercoat. It looks much better to me, so it was worth it.

193767193768

[Mike.Bray]

Why do many people have the aluminum panels powder coated? Is it because it is a much more durable finish then paint? I believe most people have the frame powder coated by FFR. Having the panels and frame coated will prevent steel from touching aluminum. Not sure if the rivets are steel or aluminum but there would be 2 different metals touching and does galvanic corrosion occur? Is this nothing to worry about?

To paint aluminum (properly) is a time consuming process. The metal needs to be prepped, a zinc chromate etching primer has to be applied, then regular prime & paint. And in the end it's regular paint that can easily chip or be damaged.

Powder coat is applied electrostatically over the bare aluminum. The electrostatic process virtually guarantees a uniform coating so it's relatively easy to apply. Even I can do it. From here the panel is baked at around 350 degrees (from memory) for a few hours to harden the powder coating. Powder coating requires specialized equipment but the process is relatively quick and easy so the cost ends up being a lot less than paint. And it is very hard and durable, especially compared to paint.

Another option is Sharkhide (https://www.eastwood.com/sharkhide-aluminum-protectant-quart.html?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA1rSsBhDHARIsANB4EJbR4lwacPox5mogGsE1 DYq9Abpm_CB_aq1Cz3zUq2wzmZt8CdWh_7kaAn-bEALw_wcB&wcid=1573638676&wickedid=391973562395&wickedsource=google&wv=4).

Another option is to anodize the aluminum panels. Anodizing is an electrochemical process that converts the surface into an anodic oxide finish. Because it's not a coating or plating it's pretty durable. My panels are clear anodized and I'm very happy with them.

And finally, the aluminum panels from FFR are a 6XXX series of aluminum. This alloy can be anodized and then bright dipped (https://aerospacemetalsllc.com/what-is-bright-dip-anodizing/#:~:text=The%20chemical%20process%20called%20Brigh t,of%20the%20treated%20aluminum%20part.) for a glossy mirror-like polished finish. When bright dip anodizing colors it almost looks like kandy paint.

The rivets are aluminum, you will be fine.

[MB750]

I can see the appeal with coloring the engine bay panels, but I'd be worried about scuffing or dinging them up during the build.

[cv2065]

I’ve always powder coated everything. It’s more durable than paint and I think it gives the car a polished look and it makes it easy to clean. It’s not difficult to keep protected during the build.

[JohnK]

I can see the appeal with coloring the engine bay panels, but I'd be worried about scuffing or dinging them up during the build. The only step of the process where I was a little concerned about dinging up the engine bay sheet metal was during the actual engine install, and I just draped some moving blankets around the foot boxes to protect them. Not really an issue during any other step of the build process.

[CaptB]

I think it just comes down to budget and preference. I PC'd mine and it looks finished no matter where you look on the car. Just remember after powdercoating your panels will fit slightly different. Just takes some working to get them to look right. Take your time, double check everything. You'll do fine.

[Mbufford]

I’m actually picking my panels up from PC today. I sized, drilled, and clecoed the whole car before dropping them off, and deburred all edges and holes.

At roughly $350 for the entire set of panels to be coated, it’s kind of a no-brainer with the durability of PC over the time and materials consumption of painting yourself.

[cv2065]

I’m actually picking my panels up from PC today. I sized, drilled, and clecoed the whole car before dropping them off, and deburred all edges and holes.

At roughly $350 for the entire set of panels to be coated, it’s kind of a no-brainer with the durability of PC over the time and materials consumption of painting yourself.

$350 for 60 plus panels? That is a gift! Nice find!

[Mbufford]

$350 for 60 plus panels? That is a gift! Nice find!

I just picked them up, and since I paid cash, they only charged me $300!

For those in North Texas, the company is called Crosslink Powder Coating. There’s multiple locations, but I used the Dallas location because another builder from the forum had his panels done there. So, at a minimum, they’ve done two cars worth of panels at that location and are familiar with the pieces.

[gbranham]

$350 for 60 plus panels? That is a gift! Nice find!

No kidding! I paid $700 for mine, but mine had a texture to them that allegedly took more time to apply. Dunno.

[Mbufford]

No kidding! I paid $700 for mine, but mine had a texture to them that allegedly took more time to apply. Dunno.

I think the price has more to do with the size of the operation. I had checked with a few closer powder coaters that specialize in automotive work, and was quoted prices reaching $1k, just on verbal description over the phone.

Crosslink is more of a commercial coater that does high-volume coating. When I dropped my stuff off a few weeks ago they said they couldn’t give me a lead time because they’d need to wait until there was another job using the same satin black that they could do my parts alongside—basically so they could spray all one batch and fill the oven. Even then, it only took three weeks from drop off until pick up.

So, even if there’s not a Crosslink in your area, I’d try searching out larger commercial coaters instead of the smaller volume automotive ones.

[jklapp]

$300! Wow!!! Since I’m on the Boston area I’m assuming more like $1000 or more. I’ll report back on what I find. If others in Mass have any recommendations for PC companies, please let me know.

[Mbufford]

$300! Wow!!! Since I’m on the Boston area I’m assuming more like $1000 or more. I’ll report back on what I find. If others in Mass have any recommendations for PC companies, please let me know.

If the price is that high up there, it may be worth shipping them off to Texas!

[Lidodrip]

I think I paid around $600 in Maine. Ironically, the business is called Cobra Powder Coating.

James

[Mat1asBEV&ICE]

Guys, those are killer prices. I was quoted $1,100 for 20 panels. He talked about all the prepping that was needed, etc. Great guy, great reputation. Perhaps I need to go elsewhere.

Back to the original question, I had to adjust one of the F panels, the firewall, and one DS footbox panel as they were not properly aligned. Used some JB weld to cover a few of their holes on the aluminum, sanded down, can't tell. Maybe there's an easier solution?

Also, be careful with the F panels. Because of suspension brackets some sections of the F panels are inaccessible to riveting. Learned the hard way. Had to cover up my holes too. :)

[cv2065]

Guys, those are killer prices. I was quoted $1,100 for 20 panels. He talked about all the prepping that was needed, etc. Great guy, great reputation. Perhaps I need to go elsewhere.

Back to the original question, I had to adjust one of the F panels, the firewall, and one DS footbox panel as they were not properly aligned. Used some JB weld to cover a few of their holes on the aluminum, sanded down, can't tell. Maybe there's an easier solution?

Also, be careful with the F panels. Because of suspension brackets some sections of the F panels are inaccessible to riveting. Learned the hard way. Had to cover up my holes too. :)

I'm thinking I might be paying that for the entire lot. $1100 for 20 panels that already have holes for hanging is way overboard. I'd find another spot.

It can be aggravating sometimes when the hole put into the panel from FFR doesn't align with a 'riveted pattern' and you end up with one too many holes. I've dealt with that a couple of times. Sometimes you can incorporate the assembled hole, sometimes you can't. In something like a firewall or panel of the footbox that you can see after completion, I would add an extra rivet in the hole or maybe do what you did with JB weld to cover it up. If your panels are going to be black, you won't notice it as much in the first place. For everything else like an F panel, you'll never see it, so I wouldn't stress too much there, although I know the OCD is a powerful thing. If there is a hole that you have drilled but later found out that you can't get to with a rivet gun, then just cut the head off of a rivet, dab of silicone and glue it on. Although it's not holding anything, it looks finished.

[Mat1asBEV&ICE]

If there is a hole that you have drilled but later found out that you can't get to with a rivet gun, then just cut the head off of a rivet, dab of silicone and glue it on. Although it's not holding anything, it looks finished.
Brilliant!

[Lidodrip]

If you decide to fill a hole with JB Weld, it may or may not hold up during the powder coating process. I filled 4 holes with JB Weld and one of them did not last - the powder coater said it was 50/50 whether it would stay in place. In the end it was not a big deal because you can't see the panel.

At the start of the build, any little mishap looks quite obvious until you start putting everything together. By the end, most of those little things are not noticeable or visible.

James

[Mat1asBEV&ICE]

Good to know!

[Cobra Depo]

Is there a way to mark panels as to where they go on the car or do you rely on pictures? I plan on PCing by panels but have read alot about marking them to document where they go.

[JohnK]

Your markings will all disappear if you powder a coat your panels. Take Photos of every panel from multiple angles. You will invariably forget how some panels go in and how they overlap other panels, so having a lot of photos will be invaluable.

[gbranham]

Take tons of pictures before you remove your panels. Especially the footboxes from all angles, including down low, looking at how the floor meets the side walls.

[Cobra Depo]

Thanks for the feedback and advice.

[Blitzboy54]

I do most of my own powder coating. It's cheap easy and kind of fun. I did my own engine bay the first build but had a shop do them this time. That cost me about $400.

The rest I have professionally done are show pieces,

Roll bars
windshield frame
gas cap
side louvers (these are technically difficult due to how many weird bends there are).

I do pretty much everything else. They don't really chip or fade in the sun. Very easy to clean.

Like everyone said, mark and drill first. Refit to make sure they all fit right and look the way you want. Then get them coated. FYI you will have to run a drill back through all the holes as PC will fill them in a touch and they will likely be too tight to fit your rivets.

[narly1]

At least on the hot rod, IMO job one should be to flip the frame upside down to mount and drill the floor pan sheet metal. It's the easiest time to do it.

Earl

[rponfick]

Order of attaching panels is always a question. I have seen comments to leave off panels as long as you can to get all the components connected (wiring, brakes, etc). I assume one panel that needs mounting first is the front panel that the steering shaft goes through.
I guess this can be temporary with cleecos, or glued and rivited, what say you?
Thanks, Ralph

[edwardb]

In absence of experience with multiple builds, follow the sequence in the build manual. If you're going to get them finished (powder coat, whatever) then spend the time first to get them all mounted, drilled, and Cleco'd as you go. Then remove, assemble per the sequence in the build manual, e.g. front and rear suspension, fuel system, etc. then start permanently mounting the panels when and where the manual shows. The only ones I recommend leaving off until the very end are the outer and top driver's side footbox and the splash guards.

[Wingman06]

I went the route of fitting and drilling as much as I could then taking out all the clecos and hauling it off to powder coat.

No regrets.