No-Nonsense Fuel Delivery For Gen3 Coyote in MkIV

[gbranham]

I've read till I'm blue in the face, and it seems like there are so many opinions on how to set up a simple, no-nonsense fuel delivery system for the Gen3 Coyote in the MkIV. Can someone who has done it recently point me in the right direction, whether that's your build thread, or otherwise? I'm thinking 3/8 feed and return hard lines, 255lph in-tank pump, and kit-supplied filter. I plan to order my Gen3 from Factory Five (www.factoryfive-at.com (http://www.factoryfive-at.com)), and I understand that kit comes with their regulator, pump, etc. Would that be sufficient? Should I get Breeze's AN adapters for the hard lines, or just single flare and clamp? Will Breeze's fuel pump hanger have a return inlet big enough, or do I need his fitting that requires drilling into the new gas tank? So many opinions, and I'm not sure why this has me so confused. I don't care what the cost is; I just want a solid, simple no-fuss setup.

Thanks,

Greg

[Stangarang]

Hi Greg. I'm no expert, and I'm not sure what you've read. From my research the supplied fuel pump and hanger are not adequate for the Coyote. A Pro-M Racing fuel pump hanger for 1986-1997 Mustangs has a 3/8" feed and return. It comes highly recommended on several posts. Also a Walbro 255lph fuel pump GSS340BX will give you the fuel pressure you need and is quite reliable.
Michael

[toadster]

I’m running a Stealth 340 at 65psi

https://cobradreams.com/2020/07/17/ordered-my-flex-fuel-line/

[Alan_C]

Give Aeromotive a call. When buying parts for my 2nd Gen Coyote, I did and they specified every component for my fuel system. All my components were then bought from Summit Racing. Now they spec their own parts, but what else would they do as that is what they know and sell.
Although my current build is not a Factory Five, Aeromotive made the Stealth II fuel tank, filter, and fuel pressure regulator. Although still not assembled and running, I have fitted the parts to the car and run hose from end to end. Then everything went back into boxes waiting for the final install.
For the first gen Mustangs, the Stealth II fuel tanks have their pump and sender connections on the front face of the tank, not the top. I have no fuel or return lines inside the trunk. Their stuff is now quite expensive as current prices look to be 120% of what they were back in 2019. When introduced, they had a tremendous backlog. I ordered in September, then Summit Racing cancelled my order due to the back log. I reordered and instructed Summit to keep the order open till fulfilled. They tried to cancel again, but talked them out of it. It took 6 months to receive my tank, worth it.

[Alan_C]

I’m running a Stealth 340 at 65psi

https://cobradreams.com/2020/07/17/ordered-my-flex-fuel-line/

I am also running the 340 lph pump inside my Aeromotive Stealth II tank. I see now that they show the 200 lph pump to be adequate for the power level for a Coyote. Is there any issues running the higher volume pump such as it working too hard moving fuel it does not need to move? My tank is out till I finish the bodywork. Now would be the time to change out the pump if the higher volume pump is not the way to go.

[edwardb]

Hi Greg. I'm no expert, and I'm not sure what you've read. From my research the supplied fuel pump and hanger are not adequate for the Coyote. A Pro-M Racing fuel pump hanger for 1986-1997 Mustangs has a 3/8" feed and return. It comes highly recommended on several posts. Also a Walbro 255lph fuel pump GSS340BX will give you the fuel pressure you need and is quite reliable.
Michael

X2. I've used this exact combination on three builds with excellent results. It's very straightforward and robust. Parts are readily available. There are several all-in-one options now that deserve considerations (Aeromotive, etc.) but you won't go wrong with the Pro-M setup. You will have true 3/8" supply and return. Not a fan of the smaller sizes or drilling them out. With the AN-6 connections, easy to use either rigid or TFE SS flex lines. I use Aeroquip TFE Racing Hose and Aeroquip fittings and have had zero issues. But there are other good brands. I'd recommend using the same brand though for hose and fittings. For my builds, I use AN-6 fittings from the tank to the Coyote fuel rail. The AN-6 to 3/8" compression fittings that Breeze sells are bulletproof and easy to use. Highly recommended.

[gbranham]

X2. I've used this exact combination on three builds with excellent results. It's very straightforward and robust. Parts are readily available. There are several all-in-one options now that deserve considerations (Aeromotive, etc.) but you won't go wrong with the Pro-M setup. You will have true 3/8" supply and return. Not a fan of the smaller sizes or drilling them out. With the AN-6 connections, easy to use either rigid or TFE SS flex lines. I use Aeroquip TFE Racing Hose and Aeroquip fittings and have had zero issues. But there are other good brands. I'd recommend using the same brand though for hose and fittings. For my builds, I use AN-6 fittings from the tank to the Coyote fuel rail. The AN-6 to 3/8" compression fittings that Breeze sells are bulletproof and easy to use. Highly recommended.

Thanks, this is very helpful. One last question...do you have the part numbers you've used for your regulator and fuel filter? I seem to recall a Trick Flow filter in one of your builds.

Thanks again,

Greg

[edwardb]

Thanks, this is very helpful. One last question...do you have the part numbers you've used for your regulator and fuel filter? I seem to recall a Trick Flow filter in one of your builds.

Thanks again,

Greg

I've used the Aeromotive Universal 13129 Bypass Regulator, which also requires Aeromotive 15606 -6 AN to straight cut couplers BTW. You'll also need a gauge to set and monitor the pressure. Which I remove after the car is on the road and the pressure is confirmed stable. For the filter I really like the Trick Flow TFS-23006. Lately seems it's been a little hard to get. There are other choices for both the regulator and filter. These just happen to be the ones I've used and like.

[Mike.Bray]

If you're planning on running 3/8" tube for the fuel lines you can use these AN adapters (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-AT165106ERL) since it's relatively low pressure. Quick and easy.

[JeffP]

Save yourself a lot of energy and Call Mike Forte and Forte's Auto parts and order the entire kit/engine from him. Probably even save some money.

[BradCraig]

You'll get a lot of diff opinions on this, and here is another one.. :-). I threw away all FF provides fuel system parts and did the following"

Pro-M hanger
Walbro GSS340
Aeromotive Regulator
SUM-220985 PTFE HOSE -6AN X 20' ROLL Ready to Ship $105.99 1 $105.99
SUM-230123B -6 BILLET 10 MIC FUEL FILTER Ready to Ship $63.99 1 $63.99
SUM-250687B -6 90 PTFE FITTING BLK Ready to Ship $15.99 1 $15.99
SUM-250690B -6 STRAIGHT PTFE FITTING BLK Ready to Ship $11.99 5 $59.95

Hope this helps.

[gbranham]

You'll get a lot of diff opinions on this, and here is another one.. :-). I threw away all FF provides fuel system parts and did the following"

Pro-M hanger
Walbro GSS340
Aeromotive Regulator
SUM-220985 PTFE HOSE -6AN X 20' ROLL Ready to Ship $105.99 1 $105.99
SUM-230123B -6 BILLET 10 MIC FUEL FILTER Ready to Ship $63.99 1 $63.99
SUM-250687B -6 90 PTFE FITTING BLK Ready to Ship $15.99 1 $15.99
SUM-250690B -6 STRAIGHT PTFE FITTING BLK Ready to Ship $11.99 5 $59.95

Hope this helps.

Also very helpful. Thanks!

[k-roy]

Looks like you have great advice above. I remember studying this ad nauseam. Don't remember all the specifics at this point. Studied flow rates through tubes, and relation to size and length. Here is what I remember, trying to keep it as "no nonsense" as possible.

Criteria
1. Need 3/8 in lines. The fuel line, return line, and the line to fuel rail.
2. Need minimum 165 LPH @ 65 PSI. (delta) 65 PSI at fuel regulator and 55 PSI at fuel line with engine off. All specified per Ford Performance Control Pack Instructions (Please don't get mad at this statement, that is taken directly from the instructions).
3. Fuel filter that will handle the flow.

How you do that is up to you. The "stock" fuel hanger does not support 3/8 return lines. Can follow EdwardB's and other'sadvice with Pro-M hanger. I went with Breeze's option, and did drill a new hole for a 3/8 inch return line.
I went with a 255 LPH fuel pump to ensure I met criteria 2 (be enough to account for all sorts of variables for the flow rate)

As far as lines are concerned, if you plan on racing/drag strip your car, you have a limited amount of total "rubber" hose length you can use (I would have to look that length back up--also opens up debate about our cars meeting other specs like roll bars depending on speed. Plenty of discussions on the forum about that.).

I went with Stainless Steel lines, with AN-6 to 3/8" compression fittings. BIG PAIN, but looks excellent. I have braided stainless PTFE hoses to connect the hard lines to the hanger/return, regulator, fuel rail.

Everyone's advices meets the minimum criteria, so the rest is up to you.

[gbranham]

Thanks, guys. This has been extraordinarily helpful and has provided me a ton of clarity. I think I have a plan now! Much appreciated!

[nashuanuke]

What is the consensus on the FFR supplied pump here: https://www.factoryfiveparts.com/80280-efi-fuel-pick-up/? Because I just installed it, do I need to take it out?

[gbranham]

From what I've been learning, the kit-supplied hanger and pump are on the small side for a Gen3 Coyote. The return and feed lines should be 3/8", and that hanger has a 5/16" feed and 1/4" return. If you use that return, the fuel aerates/cavitates when dumped back in the tank, which can cause driveability issues. To get around that with that hanger, Breeze sells a part that you install in the tank hump, next to the hanger, which works as your return line. But, from what everyone is saying above, just get the Pro-M Race Hanger for 87-93 Mustang. It has 3/8" feed and 3/8" return connections. Match that up to 3/8" feed and return lines, plus a 255lph pump, an appropriate filter and regulator, and you should be good to go. If you're doing a Gen2, different story...

[Kbl7td]

Be aware of parroting on the forum, once a couple people do a few things it sticks and then you have hundreds of other doing the same thing without doing the research.

Same product, better price, with pump.

https://www.highflowfuel.com/quantum-525lph-fuel-pump-hanger-6an-6an-fittings-for-ford-mustang-5-0l-4-6l-1986-1997-1/

[Mat1asBEV&ICE]

Thank you very much, everyone. This post will help me too. :)

[gbranham]

Be aware of parroting on the forum, once a couple people do a few things it sticks and then you have hundreds of other doing the same thing without doing the research.

Same product, better price, with pump.

https://www.highflowfuel.com/quantum-525lph-fuel-pump-hanger-6an-6an-fittings-for-ford-mustang-5-0l-4-6l-1986-1997-1/

Does not appear to be the same product. The return line isn't the same as the 3/8" feed line. On Pro-M's hanger, both the feed and return are 3/8", which is the important bit.

[Kbl7td]

It’s absolutely the same, I just installed it. Not that that would matter. I don’t care what anyone says, return line doesn’t need to be the same as the feed. Arguing that is arguing with basic understanding of EFI, pressure, regulators etc.

[gbranham]

It’s absolutely the same, I just installed it. Not that that would matter. I don’t care what anyone says, return line doesn’t need to be the same as the feed. Arguing that is arguing with basic understanding of EFI, pressure, regulators etc.

I'm confused by this comment, as it seems contradict itself. You claim it's identical to the Pro-M hanger which features the same size feed and return, yet you appear to claim the one you installed does not? Not sure. Regardless, from the pics in the link you sent, the return clearly is smaller. No worries...I'm sure what you've used will work well for you. I'll rely on what I learned of fluid dynamics in college, while pursuing my Physics degree, and the tried and true bits and pieces folks have used right here on the forum with great results for their Gen3 Coyotes. All good...best of luck on the rest of your build!


Greg

[rich grsc]

It’s absolutely the same, I just installed it. Not that that would matter. I don’t care what anyone says, return line doesn’t need to be the same as the feed. Arguing that is arguing with basic understanding of EFI, pressure, regulators etc.
I think you need to get a better understanding of fluid flow.

[Kbl7td]

I'm confused by this comment, as it seems contradict itself. You claim it's identical to the Pro-M hanger which features the same size feed and return, yet you appear to claim the one you installed does not? Not sure. Regardless, from the pics in the link you sent, the return clearly is smaller. No worries...I'm sure what you've used will work well for you. I'll rely on what I learned of fluid dynamics in college, while pursuing my Physics degree, and the tried and true bits and pieces folks have used right here on the forum with great results for their Gen3 Coyotes. All good...best of luck on the rest of your build!


Greg

I said that the one I installed has the same return and feed, I also said that it wouldn’t matter regardless. What you’re looking at is a stock photo that appears to show them being different sizes. In fact they are not, the product someone would received features two an6 fittings as well as 3/8 line and the supplied tubing is a different color as well.

Supply stated, the other product is a viable solution for someone who wants the exact same hangar WITH a quality pump. The $200 price tag on the hangar now I suspect is the result of everyone using it on their builds.


I think you need to get a better understanding of fluid flow.
Negative, again, I didn’t specify size of return line needed, only that it didn’t need to be the same size.

[cv2065]

I'm confused by this comment, as it seems contradict itself. You claim it's identical to the Pro-M hanger which features the same size feed and return, yet you appear to claim the one you installed does not? Not sure. Regardless, from the pics in the link you sent, the return clearly is smaller. No worries...I'm sure what you've used will work well for you. I'll rely on what I learned of fluid dynamics in college, while pursuing my Physics degree, and the tried and true bits and pieces folks have used right here on the forum with great results for their Gen3 Coyotes. All good...best of luck on the rest of your build!


Greg

Was just looking through this thread and just for those interested in this hanger and pump combo, the picture is not the same, as the Quantum version has an 8AN feed and 6AN return vs. the 6AN return and feed on the Pro M, which is why it would appear to be smaller. And just an observation, I've seen both the Pro M and the Quantum hangers side by side, and the hangars 'appear' to be the same down to the curved return tube at the bottom, but not sure about the workmanship. The only obvious difference would be the pigtail, as the one with the Quantum is designed to fit their pump, but one would cut it off anyway if using a different manufacturer for a pump, just like the Pro M. Not sure I would buy the Quantum pump. I know it has a 'lifetime' warranty, but the reviews are hit and miss. I'd stick with Aeromotive or Walbro.

[Kbl7td]

I still don’t understand where the confusion is, I have the pump/hangar hooked and ready to roll. Both 6an. I think what you meant to say was the picture shows two different sizes but the product is indeed both 6an return and feed.

[cv2065]

I still don’t understand where the confusion is, I have the pump/hangar hooked and ready to roll. Both 6an. I think what you meant to say was the picture shows two different sizes but the product is indeed both 6an return and feed.

There are two versions. One is a 6AN feed and return, the other is an 8AN feed and 6AN return. You were talking about a 6AN feed and return but the link showed a picture of the 8AN feed and 6AN return version, even though it says it's a 6AN/6AN. That's where the confusion comes from. Quantum's ad picture is of the wrong model.

[Kbl7td]

There are two versions. One is a 6AN feed and return, the other is an 8AN feed and 6AN return. You were talking about a 6AN feed and return but the link showed a picture of the 8AN feed and 6AN return version, even though it says it's a 6AN/6AN. That's where the confusion comes from. Quantum's ad picture is of the wrong model.

Agreed.