LED Turn Signal Flasher - Constant Power

[Lidodrip]

Hello All,

I am looking for some help with my turn signal circuit as the LED signal flasher has constant power (clicking) when the ignition is on. Below are the details of the circuit:

EQUIPMENT
RF stock harness
Russ Thompson Turn Signal (with IDIDIT relay)
SPST Hazard Switch with diodes
LED Tail Light Converter (wired at the rear)
Stock lights

BEHAVIOR
Ignition off or ACC On - No Issues
Ignition on - constant clicking from LED signal flasher
Hazards work appropriately
Turn signals work appropriately
Parking Lights and Brake Lights work appropriately
If I swap the Hazard and Signal LED signal flashers, there is no change in behavior
If I remove the turn signal fuse, the LED signal flasher stops clicking
If I disconnect the RT switch (3 wires for signal function), the LED signal flasher stops clicking

Basically, everything functions exactly how it should, but there is something that is providing constant power to the LED signal flasher when the ignition is on. The fact that disconnecting the Turn Flasher Feed/Right Turn/Left Turn wire harness from the RT switch stops the clicking makes me think that my issue is from the RT switch itself, most likely the Flasher Feed completing the circuit without going through either the left or right turn signal circuit. I don't know much in the way of details regarding the actual components of the RT switch, other than I believe the electrical components are from VW origins. I should note that the push button, flash to pass, high beam functionality works appropriately too. Of course the kicker is that everything was normal until I started to get ready for graduation (picked up license plates today). Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
James

[i.e.427]

I'm thinking it's the diodes you have installed joining the left and the right signals. With a standard flasher it probably wouldn't be an issue. I'm guessing you have an LED flasher for both the hazzards and the turn signals. Try replacing them with the thermal flashers that came with the kit. See if it has the same issue clicking. Is there a reason for a SPST switch with diodes vs the kit supplied DPDT on/on switch supplied from F5R?

If what I suggest works, even if it doesn't flash properly or flashes really fast, I see 2 fixes.
1: Ditch the diodes in favor of a 2 pole relay

Or

2: Keep the thermal flashers installed and add resistors in-line at the back of the car for the LED tail lights.

Frank

[michael everson]

I had the exact same thing happen. The only way I could fix it was to use 2 flashers. on the output side of the RT system. So I jumped the flasher socket so that power went to the RT direct and had a flasher on each wire going out. There must be some resistance in the RT system that causes this.
Mike

[Lidodrip]

I'm thinking it's the diodes you have installed joining the left and the right signals. With a standard flasher it probably wouldn't be an issue. I'm guessing you have an LED flasher for both the hazzards and the turn signals. Try replacing them with the thermal flashers that came with the kit. See if it has the same issue clicking. Is there a reason for a SPST switch with diodes vs the kit supplied DPDT on/on switch supplied from F5R?

Thanks Frank.

With regards to SPST switch vs FFR supplied - I wanted a different type of switch and couldn't find anything that came as a DPST.

I am not sure it is the diodes/hazard switch based on the following assumptions. Please feel free to correct any misunderstanding I have, you have much more experience in this realm and I appreciate your insight. Also, thinking this out loud helps me better understand wiring.

1. The electrical supply to the hazards is constant and the problems with my LED flasher only occur when the ignition is on - the problem must be with switched power and not related to the hazard flasher power supply.
2. The diodes wired to the hazard switch prevent current from going to the left signals when the right signals are used with the RT signal switch, and vice versa. They are working appropriately.
3. The problem behavior occurs when the ignition is on and none of the signals or lights are being used. Diodes should should only be a factor if one of the signal circuits is on.
4. Everything was normal until just recently. It has also transiently resolved on its own once before, but didn't last.
5. When I disconnect the RT switch, the problem goes away. This leads me to believe that the signal flasher feed (gray wire) is somehow finding a ground within the RT switch which is making the LED signal flasher active. Interestingly enough, the clicking noise from the LED signal flasher is pretty weak so it is probably a low level of current/poor ground.

I did some digging around, but I am not sure what I did with the thermal flashers. Will give it a try when I find them.

Appreciate the help,
James

[Lidodrip]

I had the exact same thing happen. The only way I could fix it was to use 2 flashers. on the output side of the RT system. So I jumped the flasher socket so that power went to the RT direct and had a flasher on each wire going out. There must be some resistance in the RT system that causes this.
Mike

Thanks, Mike, your solution makes complete sense if my assumption is correct that there is an internal ground within RT switch when in the off position. You don't happen to know what VW part Russ used for his switch? I might look at replacing the switch as a first step.

By the way, your radiator aluminum panel is awesome.

Thanks,
James

[michael everson]

its an old VW bug unit but its modified by russ. The aluminum stalk for starters. Carefully take it apart and have a look inside. Not difficult.
Mike

[Mountain-Metalworks]

Hey James,
I replied to your PM about the turn signal as well. Since I have a bunch of both old(bad) and new VW switches from Russ, what I can do is share a bunch of pictures of a disassembled switch so you can see what's all inside. There is certainly the possibility of a faulty switch with a grounding issue but you should be able to test that with an electrical tester doing an impedance test during each of those steps mentioned in your post.
The NOS(new old stock) VW switches are manufactured in Brazil I believe and essentially use late 1960's technology so they're not crazy complicated. The simplicity tends to help with longevity as well, especially considering most of our cars don't get 30K miles a year of using the turn signal. Let's chat via email as I mentioned in the PM.

Thanks,
-TJ

[Lidodrip]

UPDATE:

Everything else on the car was in working order so I decided to take it out for its maiden voyage. After a few miles of driving (and turn signal use), the constant clicking from the signal flasher disappeared. The turn signals still work appropriately, so I wonder if there was some dust or debris from the body work that was causing issues which has since worked itself out. Fingers crossed that this is no longer an issue. A big shout out to TJ from Mountain Metalworks for his offer to help me out.

James