To Title or Not to Title

[juddster]

Well, as life does sometimes, I've been given a curveball and it is likely that I will be selling my just completed MK4. Only title and registration was left.:mad:

My question to you out there is it worth it to title/register and incur paying the sales tax? Utah recognizes the MK4 as a 1965 Replica and so it will be titled as a 65. This then may make it easier for a future buyer in another state to keep the 65 year. But if I register it I will have to pay about $2,300 it taxes and fees. But will this make it more valuable?

Any input here would be greatly appreciated!

[Jim1855]

Maybe.
I bought an unfinished kit. Since the MSO wasn't issued to me there may be problems when I go to title it in Michigan. As I understand each state is a bit different.
Might be worth the trouble to at least find out what happens if you don't title it. If you sell it out of state it might be even more difficult.
Now about the taxes & fees, you can't win, you pay it w/o any real benefit and the purchaser has to pay them again. You're into the areas of fancy math.
Jim

[Mastertech5]

See if you can just get a VIN and title it without registering it. No tax or insurance if it's not registered.

[JohnK]

How complicated is the title/registration process in Utah? In California it is definitely a bit of a run-around to get the car titled and registered. So I would imagine that not having completed this step on a nearly-completed car would definitely be a bit of a turn-off (and price hit) and possibly even a deal-breaker (depending on the buyer) on a car in CA. If it were me and I was trying to get top-dollar I'd want to make it as painless for the buyer as possible.

[scrubs]

Some may be worried about titling a car that has never had one, so getting it may add more potential buyers. But that's just speculation

[ticopow]

I can see the benefits to both options, but honestly I think it depends on the buyer and the price.

Having it titled lets the buyer know that they are buying a complete car, and should be able to register it in their state and more importantly test drive it in yours!

As an informed buyer it might make it cheaper to me if you don't title or register it, If I can do that based on my cost, vs based on your cost, I might be able to save a bit of money. I don't know how it works in Utah (I'm from South Jordan, but I don't live there anymore) but I know some places charge taxes based on how much you paid for the kit, others base it on every part you have ever put on the car... I think. Like I said, I don't know, but it would be worth finding out to offer the best deal.

If I were in the market, I'd buy it from you, but I'm not so maybe I could look at it when I get to town again in October ;)

[MB750]

In my humble opinion, it would be a disincentive to me. If I were in the purchasing phase of a Cobra replica, I personally wouldn't want to deal with any more legal paperwork than necessary. Not to mention, MSO not being in my name and all, could also add complexity. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it does complicate the transaction a bit more than traditionally.

[CraigS]

I like Mastertec5's idea. I bought two FFRs out of state and titled them in Md. First came from Va and had been titled as a 65 so Md quickly titled it the same. The second came from Ga and Ga required kits to be titled the year is was titled in so it was a 2005. Md then titled it as a 2005. That was no problem except a $100/yr bump in insurance premium. But then we moved to Va into a county that required annual emissions checks because it was a 2005. I went through 2 months of he11 dealing w/ the MVA getting them to change the title to a 65. As I understand it from reading stories over the years here, most states automatically title a car from out of state exactly the same as the original state did. So in the case of an FFR having it titled as a 65 can be a huge advantage.

[juddster]

Thank you all for they input. Very, very helpful.

Many confirmed that the process in some states is difficult and the emission laws can have a real impact when a vehicle is titled as a newer year. Having a car titled as a 65 is less hassle. The process in Utah is probably one of the easiest from what I have learned. All it takes is a "VIN" verification from a police officer and then take documentation to the DMV which is probably a 20 min process. The pain for me is paying taxes as part of getting the title knowing that I will be selling it shortly. I do need to verify, as Mastertec5 suggests, that I pay taxes at title or registration in Utah. I think they are one and the same.

Never thought of the hassle of paperwork, mainly because it is easy in Utah. It would be strong selling point to have the car 100% ready to go with title and all.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Juddster,
Remember what I told ya' when you wrote to me asking this same question a few months ago. Same answer now ;)

Jeff

[GoDadGo]

It was a real pain in the neck to get my car inspected and titled down here in Louisiana.
I can't imagine how hard it would be to get it titled if the original paperwork didn't match my name.
With that said, I don't think I'd ever consider buying someone's incomplete project or an untitled car.

GOOD LUCK!

[edwardb]

Can't add too much to what's already been said. But maybe give the potential buyer the choice? If it's that quick/easy in Utah, would seem easy enough if the buyer wants it. I guess negotiate the added sales tax. I've told this story multiple times -- in my state (Michigan) a Certificate of Origin with someone else's name can be a roadblock. I know, I've been through it. But every time I've told that story, multiple forum members said it wasn't a problem in their state. So it just depends. Having it titled as a 65 is a big deal for most states. Lowers annual registration costs, maybe insurance, and emissions requirements where it applies. But a potential buyer may already be able to register the same way in their state.

[Mike.Bray]

I wouldn't touch it without a title. Too many potential problems.

[Jhinkemeyer]

I would think having it titled and such moves the needle from "someone else's potential cluster of project that they're now bailing on" significantly toward "this is a legit, finished, street legal, turn-key car" which I imagine would open you up to a much larger group of potential buyers willing to pay for that turn-key, easy button experience.

With the car as far along as you say it is, you've likely already lost the builder's looking to snatch up an un-finished kit for less than cost (which is good for you I think). But now I think you'll want to appeal to those wanting to just throw some money at it and start driving that afternoon. In which case that group would be more likely to be turned off by complications and potential roadblocks from titles and VINs and such that they're just not in the mood to deal with. A lot easier to list on BAT with a "clean title in hand" statement.

Just my 0.02, I make crappy decisions and lose my *** on deals all the time so I should probably shut up!

[Lickity-Split]

As a buyer, it would be worth paying extra to get one titled as a '65.

Mine is titled as a recently assembled vehicle. I would gladly pay you $2,300 if you could get mine titled as a '65. What I'm saying is that I think you should get it titled.

It would also make it easier for your buyer to get insured.

[Mastertech5]

In MA if you bring a previously titled or registered replica from another state they make you go through a salvage inspection and give you a new MA state VIN. They are checking for stolen drivetrain parts. When you register it for the first time they consider the sales tax you paid on the kit and major components as the tax prepaid.

[hineas]

We titled ours in Utah (down in Utah Valley) last year. It wasn't too difficult like you said.

The person helping us said we couldn't do it as a 1965. We politely asked to explain why we couldn't and showed them the rules from the DMV site. They then agreed we could do it and it is registered as a 1965.

You are right about the cost. It cost us $2179.74 to register the car. We did show them what taxes we did pay on the engine and other big purchases which helped. But we didn't pay any taxes on the kit when we bought it so we had to pay on that.

[Sarcasticshrub]

If you check some of the FFR cars that have sold on Bringatrailer, there are always questions on if it is registered, and/or how difficult is it to get registered in another state. Might be worth checking out the questions and answers to get a feel for what the market is comfortable with.

[CraigS]

When you go to the DMV, titling and registration/tags can seem like it is all one process. But usually it actually isn't.

[juddster]

Great input, details and comments from everyone. Interesting how different it is state to state.

Again, thank you all for sharing. Very helpful and very insightful.

Hopefully this thread can be as helpful for others in the future as it has been for me.