Question : How to test engine build (basic startup & leak check)

[jakester888]

I'm putting the finishing touches on the engine rebuild from a Mustang 5.0... with mostly just bolt on parts from Jegs. Here's a photo of this beautiful beast:

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As this was my first build... I'd like to test it to be sure it cranks over and does not leak. Not really sure if I sealed the gaskets properly in the intake and oil pan. So how can I test this?

Ideally I'd like to startup it up while on the engine stand. Doable?

[edwardb]

I would say for sure not while on the engine stand. I think you have two options: (1) If the body isn't on your roadster yet, it's really easy to get in and out. Had mine in/out twice during the build, and heard stories of others more than that. Go ahead and put it in, complete all the connections there, and start away. Both intake and oil pan (the two areas you mentioned) are easy to work on while in the chassis. If necessary to remove the whole engine, takes an hour or two. (2) Find a shop in your area with an engine stand/dyno setup. They're pretty common.

[skullandbones]

This may not be practical for you if you don't have the crossmember from the donor. I kept mine and have used it a couple of times to "mount" the engine for such things as installing the bell housing, trans, etc. I will be building one or two more 302s so I am going to drill holes for holding it to the concrete pad outside the garage. this allows for easy access to any part of the engine except the lower end (engine stand). This would also provide a stable platform if you wanted to test your engine. Transfer from your engine stand would be easier and safer. Jus a thought. See you later. WEK.

[AJ Roadster NJ]

Wow, nice motor, NICE JOB. I did the same thing, built my 351W up from an absolutely bare block. Took me the better part of one winter. Looking back, it was my favorite time of the build. Opening up those boxes from American Eagle and Keith Black and SealPro and Dart and MSD and Comp Cams and ARP (etc. etc. etc.) was like opening one new jewelry box after another.

I didn't start until it was in the car. I wouldn't do it outside the car myself. For one thing, I was confident that it would work. Moreover, I figured it was way easier to actually pull the motor back out of the car than it was to rig it up securely for a start outside the car. I'm just lazy. :cool:

Leading up to the start, I made a checklist of things and kept adding to it to make sure I got it all, because on the day you'll be too excited and distracted and you'll forget something.

Also, don't forget the old rule that says you should never have people around for the first start because if something goes wrong you have less explaining to do. Well bulls%&t says I. I bought a keg of beer, a dozen pizzas, put a big TV on my workbench playing the FFR DVD, and invited the whole neighborhood. About 30 men, women and children stood in heavy suspense as the appointed start time of 7:30 came and went. You could've cut the tension with a knife. As of 7:30 it was cranking but not firing. I was pretty sure it just hadn't gotten fuel up from the tank yet (carb'd engine, mechanical fuel pump) but I took my sweet time between attempts to 1) keep from overstressing the starter motor, and 2) to build suspense in the crowd.

When that baby fired at about 8:00, a cheer went up from that crowd that I will not forget as long as I live. It was an incredibly awesome moment in a project that for me has had a whole bunch of incredibly awesome moments. I kept restarting it until after midnight, and even the cops smiled and waved as they drove slowly past -- we NEVER have cops in this neighborhood.

Got kind of rambly there, sorry. I don't think I've ever told that story really before, on this forum or the other.

Anyway, a few things to remember;


Check, double check and triple check the plug wires for your cam's firing order.
Use the thumb-in-the-sparkplug-hole method of determining the compression stroke on the #1 cylinder, and align the dizzy accordingly, to ensure that you are not out 180° on the dizzy. Guys do this all the time. Bad bad bad.
Do not start the car inside your garage. Back it out. If it's raining rent a party tent. Many a house has burned down from similar adventures, and in fact one burned down just a mile from me last year when an experienced hotrodder fired up his new motor in the garage.
Have one friend who you trust, whose only job is to man the fire extinguisher if, AND ONLY IF, it is warranted. You really need someone you trust here.
I had a guy standing by with wet towels in a bucket that could be thrown over the carb if we had a carb fire. Didn't happen, but made me feel good.
Make sure to mark you dizzy, remove it, and use an electric drill (in reverse) with an oil pump primer to get oil through the filter and all the galleys prior to first start. This will greatly reduce "first start stress" on the motor.
Block the wheels.
If you have a flat tappet cam, make sure to use the 2000 rpm for 20 minutes rule (or whatever your manufacturer recommends) for cam break in. If you have a roller cam, this doesn't matter.



I'm sure there's more but that's what comes to mind.

I hope you have at least half as much fun with this as I had, because then you'll be a happy man.

AJ

[AJ Roadster NJ]

A pic of my motor, just after installation (air filter has since changed to K&N XStream);

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AJ

[jimgood]

Hate to admit my ignorance on this, but does the starter mount to the engine or the bell housing? If you don't need the transmission mated to the engine in order to mount the starter, wouldn't it be pretty easy to mount just the engine in the car for the first start? That way you have coolant, fuel lines and all the wiring in place ( I would hope).

[edwardb]

Hate to admit my ignorance on this, but does the starter mount to the engine or the bell housing? If you don't need the transmission mated to the engine in order to mount the starter, wouldn't it be pretty easy to mount just the engine in the car for the first start? That way you have coolant, fuel lines and all the wiring in place ( I would hope).

On a SBF, the starter mounts through the engine plate and into the bell housing. You need the bell housing in place to hold the starter motor. Additionally, the main engine mounts hold the engine side-to-side, but the transmission mount holds it front-to-back. You need all three mounts in place.

[AJ Roadster NJ]

What Edwardb says is exactly right. Not that much work to install the motor/trans, definitely less work than setting up an out-of-car startup scenario.

[skullandbones]

After checking your pic again, I agree with what the guys above said. It is not worth the setup for a real start but it still is a good idea for checking your engine for fitment of parts, etc. I also have a wooden model that I made of the 5.0 block that I used to check for header clearance and other clearance issue without having to install the real iron one. But since you have a EFI setup it would not be practical unless you have a spare harness, etc. Most people don't have that unless they own a dyno!!

Note: you may know this but I found it out by accident. If you are able to angle the chassis so the rear wheels are higher, the engine goes in and out much easier. It made it possible for me to install the engine alone. At the time, I had shorty headers on it and it still was easy. That was a real surprise because I was expecting to spend an hour of push and pull and it went in in about five minutes! It wouldn't hurt to have a friend on hand to hold the camera though. Good luck WEK.

[edwardb]

Couple more comments to reinforce what's already been said. When I was finishing up my engine overhaul, and had it off the engine stand with the bell housing and trans mounted, I had the brilliant idea I wanted to bump over the starter to make sure it was installed properly, engaging the flywheel, etc. before putting into the car. I had made a pretty solid cradle out of 2x6's that engaged the engine mounts. Didn't like it hanging from the shop crane for days at a time. So I briefly put 12 volts to the starter a couple times to check everything out. I found out just how much energy and mass are at work here. No big problems, but it moved around much more than I expected. I won't ever do anything like that again unless properly installed in the car. I can't imagine going so far as actually starting it without being properly installed.

I had my engine in/out twice during my build. First time using a manifold lift plate (carb'd motor) with a friend helping. Went in easily with no drama in a little over an hour. But a little bit of pushing needed due to the changing angles as you drop into place. The second time I used a leveler on the shop crane, and did it myself in even less time and couldn't have been easier. Both times without the body in place though. Now that it's completely done, and body installed, don't expect would be that much harder but I still remember (very well...) how much the paint cost, so would be a little more stress and drama.:eek:

One final point, again reinforcing the need to install properly. In order to get the check-out you described (proper sealing, no leaks, oil pressure, etc.) you would need to run it long enough to get to temperature. That's at least 5-10 minutes.

[AJ Roadster NJ]

Here's a pic. I had a helper who pushed down at the trans end slightly to help guide it in. There is not a lot of extra room at all, front or rear.

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As someone above suggests, keep the front tires on the ground (I still had the junk temps on at this point) and jack up the rear, that helps a lot.

AJ

[Bob Cowan]

You can build a sturdy test stand for exactly this purpose. They're pretty common, lots of people use them, and there are plenty of free plans available all over the place. If you were building engines as spares, or for installation in anohter place, I could see the benifit. But I'v never had a need for one. I just drop the engine in place and see what happens.

Drop it in, hook everything up, run the checklist, and turn the key. Oh, and cross your fingers once or twice. A little genuflect never hurt anyone, either. ;)

A couple of small hints:

- use a decent oil filter, but a cheap SAE certified dino oil. It's only going to be there for 30 minutes or so. Less if there's a problem. No sense wasting good money on oil. But a cheap filter can hurt any engine in a short period of time.

- fill the cooling system with plain water. If there's a leak, it's easier to clean up.

- Don't get in a rush. Let all the silicone sealant dry and cure before adding fluids.

[jakester888]

AJ - nice engine pic and inspirational story (30 neighbors watching).

Bob - thanks for the $avings tips.

I'll get it in the FFR frame before startup.