updated.extreme frustration tap broken (help)

[Bill Elliott]

I have now broken 2 taps in frame , first one I could understand as it was a drill tap, junk imo. This one today snapped. What do I need to be using, clearly I have chosen poorly. Patience has been used up for the week. Yesterday I walked away from it, thought I had a good plan. Expert opinions needed. Thanks for all that reply.

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[JJK]

not claiming to be an expert, but I have broken my share of taps. I have found the two biggest things are to ensure the tap is directly in line with the drilled hole. a tap can bite at an angle off axis and if you proceed not aligned with the hole bad things happen. second, make sure you only apply rotational torque perpendicular to the hole. if you push or pull the tap bad things happen, only twist perpendicular to the hole.
there are also different types of taps, differing for blind holes vs thru holes and the number of flutes, but the same two rules apply.

[Ford & Jeep Fan]

The above reply is good advice. I've broke a tap or two myself but is has not happened in a while now. Use a taping fluid if possible. ANY lube is much better than none at all.
Most importantly don't try to tap the full length of the hole without removing the tap a few times to remove chips.

[edwardb]

The above reply is good advice. I've broke a tap or two myself but is has not happened in a while now. Use a taping fluid if possible. ANY lube is much better than none at all.
Most importantly don't try to tap the full length of the hole without removing the tap a few times to remove chips.

These are my conclusions as well. Always use tapping fluid and back the tap out to clear chips when resistance in felt. How much resistance is relative to the size of the tap. I tapped a bunch of 10-32 threads in my builds, and those will snap quickly if you put too much pressure on them. For that size, in the steel chassis, don't even think about using a drill. Only by hand. The third thing I'd add is use quality taps and be ready to replace them when they get dull. I've found the Irwin Hanson brand at my local Ace (and probably elsewhere) are decent. I've gotten them from McMaster too. I've had really bad luck with H-F taps. Fourth, and finally, make sure you're using the right size starting hole. A set of index drills will make sure you always use the exact size required.

[Bill Elliott]

The above reply is good advice. I've broke a tap or two myself but is has not happened in a while now. Use a taping fluid if possible. ANY lube is much better than none at all.
Most importantly don't try to tap the full length of the hole without removing the tap a few times to remove chips.

Is removing it even necessary on thru holes?

[Bill Elliott]

These are my conclusions as well. Always use tapping fluid and back the tap out to clear chips when resistance in felt. How much resistance is relative to the size of the tap. I tapped a bunch of 10-32 threads in my builds, and those will snap quickly if you put too much pressure on them. For that size, in the steel chassis, don't even think about using a drill. Only by hand. The third thing I'd add is use quality taps and be ready to replace them when they get dull. I've found the Irwin Hanson brand at my local Ace (and probably elsewhere) are decent. I've gotten them from McMaster too. I've had really bad luck with H-F taps. Fourth, and finally, make sure you're using the right size starting hole. A set of index drills will make sure you always use the exact size required.

I used the recommended size drill bit from the package,( and it was Irwin Hanson tap) I am wondering if that tap is just not the quality I need, it is high carbon steel, do I need high speed steel instead?

[F500guy]

I agree with the above
1) Keep straight
2) Cutting Fluid
3) Proper staring hole(Aluminum is more forgiving)
4) Take is slow, back out often as soon as it gets hard to turn
5) I Would not want to put 6-32 in that tube, that in my opinion is kind of small for anything to mount on the frame, 8-32 or 10-24 or even 10-32 as Paul states, fine thread is more tender and more difficult and more likely to bind.
6) JB weld and pull nut inserts another option although the edge of the insert sticks out a bit.

[F500guy]

Carbon steel tap should work fine, if you have any scrap metal, test a couple holes in 1/4 plate and get the feel for it. Curved survace can be harder to get a straight alignment

[JJK]

carbon steel should be fine, high speed steel is more heat resistant which does not matter for this application.
also agree that curved surfaces require more precision and cutting fluid is always your friend

[scrubs]

https://youtu.be/NV4hh4bJxb4?feature=shared

How I learned

[Gizmosrcool]

I just tapped 3 holes in the frame for a fuel filter. Match the pilot hole to the tap. Use cutting fluid if u got it. I use WD40 and it worked well. Cut in and pull out when good resistance is felt. I am using HF tap so I go slow and several in/outs.

Maybe practice on some scrap. I have screwed up a few things here and there, and when I have not done something for awhile, I now practice, and that has helped.

Take a breath and go back at it. You will get it.

Tom

[Bill Elliott]

Yea , I have used taps before just not this small. I admit I didn't back it out because I thought on a thru hole that the chips would go out the back. I ordered a quality cobalt steel tap. I think on a tap this small I need the stronger steel. I will take everyone's advice and use cutting oil and go slower and back it out frequently. The first one went in fairly well, guess I got to confident with the torque I was applying.

[ChasNMe]

1/2 turn forward, 1/4 turn back, and tap fluid . . . . taught from a 30 year millwright decades ago. never had one break this way

[Mike.Bray]

Order some good quality gun taps (https://www.mcmaster.com/products/taps/chip-clearing-taps-for-through-holes-8/) from McMaster Carr, they eject the chips ahead of the tap so you don't have to reverse and break the chips. For thru holes like in the frame I use my reversing drill. Zip zip. Literally haven't broken a tap in years. And use actual cutting oil, not lubricating oil. I bought a can from Ace Hardware.

[Bill Elliott]

Order some good quality gun taps from McMaster Carr, they eject the chips ahead of the tap so you don't have to reverse and break the chips. For thru holes like in the frame I use my reversing drill. Zip zip. Literally haven't broken a tap in years. And use actual cutting oil, not lubricating oil.

what do you do with a reversing? drill, sorry dont know what that is or meant

[michael everson]

I was a machinist for 30 years. We never backed a tap out before the hole was finished. For a through hole, you just go right through. For a blind hole you drill it deep enough for the chips or use a spiral tap. I tap literally hundreds of holes a year on FFR stuff and rarely break a tap. In and out with my cordless drill, even up to 1/2 inch. A 6-32 tap is very small for anything on a Factory five. BTW stay away form 10-24 taps. They are the worst.
Mike

[Railroad]

Self tapping tec screws may be an option for you. I used them to attach P clamps and other items to the main frame.
Regular tec screws will drill and tap, but for heavy metal, I find it easier to drill the hole and use the self tapping screw. A caution, they are hard metal and if over tighten with a drill or impact, the head can snap off. They will not drill out and it is best to grind the screw flush and paint over it.
I got to do that twice.
6-32 is a small screw size. The tap is hard and brittle, not accepting lateral pressure too well.
Irwin is a good brand, unless China has stepped in on their production.
good luck,

[JohnK]

All good advice so far. Drill the right size hole, keep it perpendicular, lots of cutting fluid, take it slow, clear chips often. Only other thing I can add is that at the start of the project I picked up a set of these from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Big-Gator-Tools-MTG500NP-V-Tap/dp/B0076OAODG/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1VAV7RQB6NU68&keywords=tap+guide&qid=1693057885&sprefix=tap+guide%2Caps%2C188&sr=8-5

They make both tap guides and drill guides in standard and metric. It will help to ensure that your pilot hole is drilled perpendicular, and that the tap is going in perpendicular. I haven't broken a tap since I started using these (knocks on wood).

[Mat1asBEV&ICE]

Does anyone have experience with this set (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HBDW48/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_5?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1)? Perhaps save money and just get a few specific sizes?

Thank you!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Sorry about your luck Bill. Trying to freehand tap a #6 into steel, dry, without clearing chips every 180 degrees is asking for trouble. You could do it in aluminum, but not steel.

Jeff

[Mike.Bray]

what do you do with a reversing? drill, sorry dont know what that is or meant

With a gun tap you don't have to reverse the tap to break the chip. So you can chuck the tap in your drill chuck, forward to tap the hole and reverse to come back out. A good tap, a little cutting oil, and you can tap a thru hole in 5 seconds. Just don't try and use too many RPM.

[Windsor]

1/2 turn forward, 1/4 turn back, and tap fluid . . . . taught from a 30 year millwright decades ago. never had one break this way

This is the same way I was taught.

[Bill Elliott]

Lots of good advice, I am going to step it up to a 10-32 cobalt tap from Mcmaster Carr. The bigger tap and going at it with all the above advice should make it a lot easier.

[CraigS]

Here is a chart for tap drill sizes.
https://templatelab.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/tap-drill-chart-14.jpg
Not having any 'gun taps' I always do the 1/2 turn in, back off 1/4 turn or there abouts. I find that, as I back up, I can usually feel when the tap snaps off the chips. It is at about 1/4 turn but I go more by that feel than by degrees of turn.

[mikeinatlanta]

IMO: First is the premise. Why such a small screw? 10-32 would be normal for things like wire harness and tube clamps. 6-32 is too small for most clamping needs.
Second is the idea of tapping the frame in the first place. Abandon the whole tap thing and use high quality self-tapping screws. On relatively thin metal, they provide stronger threads and better thread fit than a tap. Self-tappers are massively faster as well. even if you want to use a different screw, make the threads with the self-tapper and then toss it for whatever screw you are using. Use the self-tapper only once to make new threads.

If the hole is the correct size and self-tappers break in mild steel, throw the china junk away and go get some quality ones from somewhere like McMaster.

EDIT: Regarding the old tap. Unless that specific hole location is critical, cut it off, fill with a paintable sealer, paint it. If critical to remove, a cheap diamond bit set from HF with a dremel will fit up the flutes and cut out the center. https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/rotary-oscillating-tools/rotary-tool-accessories/bit-sets/diamond-point-rotary-bit-set-20-piece-69653.html

[Jhinkemeyer]

I think you'll be in much better state of mind after using the bigger tap you have on order, #6 can be annoying.

And don't bash the drill taps too quick! I did all my #8 and #10 taps into the frame with a set, they're so fast and easy (and can give it a nice little chamfer in one shot)! Punch the center, give it a drop of tapping fluid and off you go. I broke one #8 but that was because I tried to swat at a mosquito with the tap in the hole (and chucked in a drill in an almost horizontal hole) and I guess I moved the drill more than I expected and snapped it off....damn.

FWIW 10-32 was my go-to fastener in most places, small enough to not be bulky but big enough that I wasn't worried about snapping taps and fasteners in most cases.

Good luck!

[Bill Elliott]

Received my 10-32 from Mcmaster super fast today. This one was amazingly much easier than the 6-32. Like a knife through butter. Thanks for all of you repsonses. Here is what I was working on.

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[F500guy]

Looks Good Bill!

[CraigS]

Very nicely done!