Bailey Family build; First set of questions for the experts...

[Claybuster]

Hello All,
We are in our first week of our Mk IV build, and my 14 yo son and I are connecting in ways that I never saw coming. What a blessing to have this opportuniy. Because we are not experts, I was hoping that our forum could take a look at a few pics to evaluate and provide feedback for a couple things that are making me wonder if we are missing something.
I set the UCA measurements as directed for power steering, which involved cutting the aft adjustment sleeves by about 1/4", but it looks like the upper and lower ball joints are WAY out of alignment; The lower ball joint is easily 1 to 1.5 inches aft of the upper ball joint. Is this normal?
The upper ball joint (Howe racing 22320S) and dust boot (Energy Suspension 5.13102G, the shorter of the two) doesn't look like it seats correctly. Nothing is correctly torqued yet, and obviously, there is no weight on the system, but I am just concerned that something is wonky.
Finally, there seems to be about 1/8" of play at the lower control arm shock mount with the supplied spacers installed and properly torqued. I double checked the width of the spacers with a caliper and they are correct. Is there anybody else that has seen this or have any input? Should I be concerned? The upper shock mount does not have any significant play.
Your input and experise are appreciated!
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Jason

[edwardb]

Expert? No, but have done this a few times.

1. As long as you have the dimensions of the UCA per the plans, you should be OK as a starting point. The power steering setup does have a lot of positive castor (tilt of the spindle) so what you're picturing is likely OK for now.

Update: Bad advice. :( You're showing negative caster instead of positive. Corrected by Jeff Kleiner's post below.

2. The Energy Suspension boot fit over the ball joint should be OK when your suspension is up at ride height. Never looks great when hanging like that.

3. You don't want any play. If those are the spacers called out then obviously wrong. You could add washers. I'd personally prefer only spacers of the proper length.

[Claybuster]

Thanks edwardb! I have enjoyed your build thread and appreciate that you share your thoughts and expertise. I can see the issue when I take it back apart:

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Note the manual calls for a 0.43" bushing on either side of the shock, and the kit provides 0.40" bushings. That 0.06" (1/16") difference is roughly the play that I have. Surely I can't be the only person that has run into this small technical issue? I realize that it isn't that big of a hang up in the grand scheme of things. It is easily managed.
Should I bring this to the attention of the FFR guys, or just find some new bushings and move on?

Jason

[gbranham]

I just did the front suspension on my build last weekend. Yes, the rubber boots on the ball joints look wonky at full droop. And yes, the upper ball joint sits aft of the lower by quite a bit; that's the way it should be. And my lower shock mount spacers fit with no play, even without the bolt torqued. I wouldn't want to put a washer in there myself, so I'd send pics of your spacers measured with a digital caliper to FFR, and ask them to send you some that are actually .43". I'm sure they'll get them out to you in a hurry. Fortunately, it doesn't slow you down, and is easily replaced later.

But, the rear IRS setup has .40" spacers. Could it be that you grabbed the .40" spacers instead of the .43"? Not sure if you're doing IRS or not, and if you're not, maybe FFR accidentally threw .40 in your bag of hardware.

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[Jeff Kleiner]

The lower ball joint should be forward of the lower joint, not aft of it. I haven't looked at a manual for a couple of years or more so I would hope that a correction has been made but at one time the dimensions were in error (They had the two sides flipped rather than mirror imaged in the diagram). Use the dimensions and center of grease zerk reference points that I show here and you'll be real close to about .5 degree negative camber and 7-8 degrees positive caster.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189078&d=1666032431

Cheers,
Jeff

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[Claybuster]

Hey Jeff and gbranham! I was hoping a few more folks would chime in. Thank you!
I did think about the spacers for the rear suspension. I am doing IRS, and when I checked that box of stuff, the spacers are indeed 0.40" instead of the 0.43" that I was hoping to find. Even the packing list for the IFS box shows 0.40" spacers, not 0.43".
Bummer...
I went back and looked at my original post, and I wrote down my thoughts backwards. Duh...The upper ball joints are indeed behind the lower ball joints. And my dimensions are really close to the pic Jeff sent. Nice!
I guess I'll send that pic of my caliper to the sales guy that I have been corresponding with. They seem to be very customer service oriented. Thank you, fellas!

Jason

[gbranham]

So, I just went to look at my packing list. Indeed, both the IFS and IRS boxes show .40" spacers, despite the assembly manual stating otherwise. Interesting, and thankfully, whomever pulled my hardware bits had the presence of mind to follow the assembly manual, and not the packing list...

Sorry about the pics...I keep forgetting to take pics in landscape orientation, because this forum is too rigid to adjust appropriately. I've tried to rotate them before posting, but no bueno. Sorry...



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[Claybuster]

So I reached out to FFR via email about this technical issue. I was told that the 0.40" spacers are correct, and that the 0.43" specification in the manual was incorrect. I'm not sure I believe that, as there is definitely play in the system with 0.40" spacers...
I was also told that if I had any play when putting it back together that it was acceptable to use washers to take up any space. Huh?

Do you guys have any suggestions for where I might find some tubes from which I could cut my own spacers? McMaster has some spacers that are close, but not exactly what I need.

Thanks for your help!
Jason

[F500guy]

May have to buy a 6 inch tube of proper size and then cut your own. Mcmaster will have tubes as well

[Claybuster]

Thanks F500guy! (Lance, right?)
I found some tubes at McMaster I think I can cut, thanks to your suggestion. Now I just have to find my bandsaw blades.
I have been following your build. Thank you for sharing. You may have put it in there somewhere, so forgive me if I missed it, but are you treating any of the aluminum panels that face the engine bay with anything?
I am torn between some kind of paint/powdercoat or just sharkhide or similar. I wish I could brighten them up somehow. I'd like some "pop" when the hood is open.

Jason

[F500guy]

All I am doing is brushing with green scotch bright and using clear satin rustoleum. I have only done 3 panels so far, but plan to do that with everything in the engine bay. Down the tunnel I plan to do a bedliner and the wheel or outside facing panels the same. No show queen here, just something to look decent because patience and creativity are my nemisis!

[Mike.Bray]

I found some tubes at McMaster I think I can cut, thanks to your suggestion. Now I just have to find my bandsaw blades.

You can cut aluminum tubes on a chop or miter saw with a carbide tipped blade. Makes a nice straight cut.