FFR radiator insufficient?

[sharpj@mcohio.org]

I have a small block 427 (stroked 351W) and have issues with overheating in city driving. I have tried using the additives like water wetter but no help. I swapped out the FF supplied fan with a higher CFM (3200 CFM supposedly) but no help and I even added the fan shroud from Mike Everson I think... might have been a different vendor. Anyway, anybody else having a similar issue? is the FFR radiator just not sufficient for my small block 427. Anybody look at a custom radiator from Ron Davis? (expensive) Let me know what you know... help

[Jim1855]

In for info.
A friend with a 462 Windsor has the FFR radiator & fan and isn't having issues.
I will have to build a custom radiator due to the install / configuration of my build.
Jim

[Mastertech5]

A cause of what you describe is the fan not working. Air flows through the radiator at speed but not so much at lower speeds. I would double check that it is. If that's not it I would start looking for another cause, air bound, belt slipping, water pump, thermostat.

[33fromSD]

Are you running with the engine side panels? If yes, are they vented? If you have the engine panel covers and there is no venting that could be part of the problem with no place for the heat to go especially once the fan kicks on.

The other thing you could try besides the suggestions above is to install heat shield header blankets. I put these on mine and it helped a lot. Link --> https://www.summitracing.com/parts/the-14003

Jim

[sharpj@mcohio.org]

Fan is definitely working, changed thermostat (didn't help) water pump is new seems to flow well. I ran it with the nose up slightly to make sure it was burped. This is why I think maybe the radiator just isn't sufficient.

[sharpj@mcohio.org]

I have nicely vented side panels

188433

[Mastertech5]

Nice Hot Rod! I haven't heard of anyone else having this problem because of the radiator. It's usually a coolant flow problem, air in the system or God forbid a head gasket or crack. What temp do you consider overheating? As long as it's 220 or less I wouldn't consider that over heating. There is a older GM 3.1 liter family of engine that the fan doesn't even come on until 228 degrees.

[sharpj@mcohio.org]

On the highway it will run at 185-190 but it will get to 210 pretty easy on a warm day and stop and go driving. It will eventually hit 220 but I usually head home by then. Forget turning on the AC because it will hit 220 pretty quick. With the top off I don't use the AC but I tried as a test and did not like the result.

[cob427sc]

I had this problem initially with mine but I was running a Buick (364 ci) V8. Problem was solved when I built a tight fan shroud. Make sure the fan (electric I assume?) is running the correct direction - should be pulling the air through the radiator. Most of these can be wired either way and pushing the air won't work.

[Ted G]

Have you double checked your thermostat? I have a 427 windsor too and I never get above 200. Some say that these blocks run too cool.

[Alec]

I have a forte 427 small block (Forte), and the FFR radiator. I have a fan shroud and the shroud that goes over the top, but I havent yet installed the aluminum pieces in the nose (I am still pre-paint/body). In very hot atlanta driving my water temp never goes over 90c, even sitting for 4-5min at a light. The coolant is Evans waterless that Mike Forte urged me to use. So the system seems to be working well thus far,

[sharpj@mcohio.org]

Thanks for all the replies! It seems my issue probably isn't the radiator from what I am reading. I have a fan shroud from ReplicaParts.com and electric fan that is pulling thru the radiator so fan is going in the right direction. I have changed out the thermostat. At this point I'm thinking I may have a flow issue. Maybe I bought a junk water pump and didn't know it. I got it new off eBay but who knows.

[FLPBFoot]

Maybe I bought a junk water pump and didn't know it. I got it new off eBay but who knows.

It's along shot but is the pump spinning the right direction?

[sharpj@mcohio.org]

standing in front of the car looking towards the back of the car it rotates clockwise which I believe is correct.

[JimLev]

I keep my cooling fan running at 40-50% all the time. (I used a PWM speed controller so it’s adjustable from 0-100%)
When the engine temp gets to where the ECU wants the fan to come on it then goes to 100%.
My reasoning is it’s easier to keep the temp a little lower than the 195ºF than it is to bring the temp down after it’s already way above 200º+F.
I have the shroud as well as louvers on the engine side panels, a lot of heat comes out of them.

If your using the temp sensor in the bottom of the radiator jump it to ground to keep the fan running at 100% while you drive around and at stop lights to see if that will help keep the temp down.

[Fman]

I have also been in 90 degree weather and never went above 185-190 with Dart 427, 500+ HP. I am running 180 Ford T-stat, high flow Flex A lite fan (3000 CFM), Breeze shroud, 50/50 coolant mix, Milodone high flow water pump. My fan comes on at 190 degrees. I also have 4" bilge fans that I can turn on to blow hot air out of the engine compartment through the side vents, I rarely use them but on a hot day it definitely helps move some air. I don't drive my car in the summer much, but have had it out a few times in 90 degree weather and never had a cooling issue, even in stop and go traffic.

The FFR radiator is a pretty large capacity radiator, I would be surprised if it would not cool your 427. Are you sure you have the fan wired properly to pull air? What temp is your fan coming on at?

[OSU Cowboy]

The radiator in my MK3.1 with all the Breeze shroud components work well ... especially once I figured out the fan wasn't ever coming on. It's now on a manual switch.

[jab351w]

standing in front of the car looking towards the back of the car it rotates clockwise which I believe is correct.

That's correct for a standard rotation water pump, incorrect for a reverse rotation pump. Both types of pump are available for the Windsor engines. A pump turning backwards will still move some coolant, but likely not enough to keep the engine from overheating.

Besides looking at the impeller (difficult to do with the pump installed on engine), you can usually tell one type from the other by the pulley bolt pattern:

https://support.cvfracing.com/hc/en-us/articles/360058972694-Small-Block-Ford-Tutorial

[sharpj@mcohio.org]

Fan is definitely wired to pull thru the radiator. It is supposedly a 3000 CFM fan and I do have a shroud. I have a Holly Sniper EFI setup so the fan comes on by the computer at 185. I also have a manual switch to turn it on whenever I want and turning it on 100% does help but eventually it will still climb to 210+ What about an electric water pump? opinions on that? From what I read an electric flows several times more coolant at stop and go verses belt driven. At cruising speed on the highway however, the belt driven will flow a bit more but you have a ton of air flow.

[TxMike64]

That's correct for a standard rotation water pump, incorrect for a reverse rotation pump. Both types of pump are available for the Windsor engines. A pump turning backwards will still move some coolant, but likely not enough to keep the engine from overheating.

Besides looking at the impeller (difficult to do with the pump installed on engine), you can usually tell one type from the other by the pulley bolt pattern:

https://support.cvfracing.com/hc/en-us/articles/360058972694-Small-Block-Ford-Tutorial

I believe this might be your issue. There are SEVERAL different SBF water pumps - some turn CW some turn CCW. Make sure you have the correct pump for your accessory drive. Generally, versions that use a V-belt or run on the ribbed side of the serpentine belt are standard rotation (CW). Those that run on the back (smooth) side of the serpentine belt are reverse-rotation (CCW).

[wrp]

I struggled with similar issues for some time. I went through the steps, changed the fans for higher CFM, pressure tested the radiator, bought a new radiator cap, water wetter, and even built louvered side panels. Last time I replaced my engine, I went to a holly sniper (don't stop this isn't a commercial for Holley). What I finally figured out was that I had not figured how I wanted to drive the car. I do mostly WOT blasts from light to light. I had initially put a mechanically advanced MSD setup in it. I went to a vacuum advance because I was not getting the AFR's I wanted and wound up ruining an engine. With the Holley, the computer controlled tuning responded very well to the differing driving demands once I got it set up right. Til the day I die, I believe it was more of a problem in the timing and advance than anything else. Once the Holley was on, with all the other effort I put into it, I cruised three hours yesterday with an ambient outside temperature of 107 degrees and the car consistently ran between 186 and 198, of course there was this one corvette that pulled up beside me and after that if got as high as 206 but within thirty minutes, still running, the car was back to 198. I do use Water Wetter, have about three bottles in it. I can feel the difference it makes.

[Mastertech5]

Yes, retarded timing will make your engine run hotter. Lower rpm = Less timing, it's possible if your timing curve is not advancing soon enough.

[Just 1 More]

One thing I did to mine is use a PWM controller for the fan and eliminated the temp sensor/fan controller. Y'all need to check these things out. https://www.northernradiator.com/Product/Z18350
188806

[flyboy_1994]

sharpj@mcohio.org ,
Have you checked your sensor and gauge for accuracy? It's possible it's out of spec, and showing higher than actual temp. I've seen that many times before. It can be affected by resistance in the wires, or a bad ground for the gauge or sensor. If you can boil some water and quickly get the sensor in it, you should see 200-212 degrees F. The ground can be a big deal, if the sensor ground is in a different location than the gauge ground, the difference in REF voltage can be enough to show higher temps. I've seen bad sensors too, but not as often as bad connections. Since other's haven't had a similar overheat issue, it's the next most likely cause, baring cracks or head gaskets.
Good luck.