New Build excitement - T5 vs TKX

[bigal0043]

Hello, been watching the community for a couple years, reading as many build threads as i can. I finally pulled the trigger on my order on July 4th. Delivery date is mid October.

I already have a fully rebuilt 351 Cleveland from a 70's mustang (Edelbrock intake and carb only additional HP gainers), got it for a great price. I have read that the real only issue i face is the headers will need to be fabricated which i feel comfortable doing. I was originally going to purchase new a TKX to pair with this and had my kit configured with the TKX. But i found a great deal on a T5 and 95 mustang rear end and thinking of picking them up tomorrow. I can snag both together for under $1,000, thoughts? Any issues with changing the driveshaft after i have placed the order?

I did realize after i placed my order i do need wipers and defroster for NYS to pass inspection, so will be adding those later.


Parts still needed:
Rear End
Transmission
Wheels - FR500


The build is trying to keep as simple as possible.
15123 – Left Hand Drive Chassis

13083- 302/351w Mounts

16920 – Manual Clutch

16763 – J Pipes for 5.0

17127 – Uncoated Bare Side Exhaust

17140 – 3 Link Delux Rear Suspension Kit with Koni Coli-overs, forged lower control arms, and panhard bar

17139 – Front and Rear 3Link Shocks

Donor Rear Axle

16350 – 31 spline driveshaft for small 302/351w with Termaec TKX/TKO

16799 – Power Steering Kit

600359 – Platinum Gauges

16213 – Leather Roadster Seats

13029 – Uncoated chassis

16622 – Driver side Black power coated Roll-Bar

16627 – Passenger Side Black power coated roll-bar

33406 – 11” Front Brakes

17137 – 14" Wood Steering Wheel

[gbranham]

No problem on changing your order. A few weeks before your kit is ready, a sales person will call you to review your order and make any adjustments you may need. This happens all the time...folks order their kit, and keep researching, only to realize they want to make some changes. It's why they call shortly before they 'lock in' your final order for assembly by the team.

[Jeff Kleiner]

A ‘95 rear end will have to be reconfigured with different axles and caliper brackets to reach the standard Fox Mustang width. If the T5 is also from a ‘95 it too is somewhat non-standard with a longer input shaft which will require a 1995 specific bell housing and consequently a shorter driveshaft.

Jeff

[bigal0043]

Jeff, from the FAQ it says that Ford 8.8” Solid Axle from 1987-2004 Ford Mustang, it looks like the 95 is 1.5" wider than the foxbody, but i read that the MK4 fits the 94-98 rear ends fine? Is that not the case?

Thanks for the tip on the 95 T5, i just was reading about it (confirmed) and that they needed a shorter drive shaft.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Jeff, from the FAQ it says that Ford 8.8” Solid Axle from 1987-2004 Ford Mustang, it looks like the 95 is 1.5" wider than the foxbody, but i read that the MK4 fits the 94-98 rear ends fine? Is that not the case?

Thanks for the tip on the 95 T5, i just was reading about it (confirmed) and that they needed a shorter drive shaft.

Yes, 1994-1998 are 1.5" wider however use the same housing---all of the extra width is in the axle shafts outside of the housing to accommodate the ABS tone rings. If you intend to run wide rear tires (315 in either 17 or 18 inch or 295/50-15) on the FFR rims or ones with similar offset and backspace you'll encounter body clearance issues. If you limit yourself to a 255 width on 9" rim it can work. As I said in the earlier reply you can change axle shafts and use caliper relocation brackets to turn it into Fox width. Talk to Richard Oben at North Racecars and he can set you up:

https://northracecars.com/c-clip_brakes.html

The 1999 -2004 rear ends are 3" wider with a wider housing and the only way to make them work is to narrow the housing then change axle shafts and caliper brackets.

Jeff

[MB750]

I used a 95 engine, trans, and 8.8 axle for my build. And I ran into some "glitches", as Jeff eluded to.

Yes my entire axle is a bit wider, but I think that extra width is just the axles themselves. The 8.8 housing is the same (someone here please concur if true). Just keep all this in mind when it comes to wheel width and backspacing. You don't want the rubber hitting the fenders.

The T5 is definitely longer, but it's just in the input shaft. This also makes the bellhousing longer, which requires a shorter driveshaft. I made it all work, but it depends on your level of confidence and skill fabricating stuff. Basically I shortened my driveshaft about an inch to accommodate the longer bellhousing/transmission.

Since you're gonna need some kind of special bellhousing to mate that T5 to a Cleveland, maybe all you'd need to do is get a normal Fox Body length input shaft for that SN-95 T5 you've got a line on. And if you can live with a slightly wider 8.8, buy that setup. I'd recommend completely rebuilding both though, and maybe changing the pinion/gear to something you'll want.

(Edit: It took me over a half hour to reply, so Jeff already confirmed my suspicion)

[bigal0043]

Thanks for all this info super helpful. I was going to go with the FR500 17x9 fronts and 17x10.5 rears, but that looks like it will have some clearance issues.

My other option would be to go with a fox body rear end, buy new axles to make it a 5 lug and then also have to convert to a disk brakes?

Another thought is i already have a 2004 8.8 crown vic rear end that is super wide. Would i be better off spending the money to just shorten that to the fox body width? But that already has rear disk brakes.

Ended up finding a super low miles T5 from a 91 mustang that was cheaper so im going that route. But have not seen many rear ends up in my area.

[i.e.427]

The FR500 wheels in a 10.5 can be ordered with an offset for a 94/95 Mustang and should fit in the rear fenders with no issues. Standard Fox Mustang offset will NOT work in a 10.5 rear wheel.

[bigal0043]

These are the rims and wheels I had picked originally. https://lmr.com/item/WTK-1007UASZ/mustang-fr500-wheel-tire-kit-94-04-black-m-t-17x9-105

Would these fit with the 95 rear end?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Comparing the specs:

Front
FFR 17X9; Backspace 6.0, Offset 24mm
LMR 17X9; Backspace 5.85, Offset 24 mm

Rear
FFR 17X10.5; Backspace 6.7, Offset 27mm
LMR 17X10.5; Backspace 6.84, Offset 27 mm

FFR's wheels are designed around the Fox width. As you can see the offsets are the same and the backspacing is very close. What this tells us is that in the front the outside edge of the wheel and tire will be 0.15" farther outward on the LMR wheel. In the rear the outside edge of the wheel and tire will be 0.14" farther inward on the LMR wheel---not enough to make up the difference of the SN95 rear end's additional .75" in width.

Jeff

[bigal0043]

Thanks again Jeff for the help! I will start my hunt for a foxbody rear end, hopefully can find one that has done the 5 lug conversion already.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Thanks again Jeff for the help! I will start my hunt for a foxbody rear end, hopefully can find one that has done the 5 lug conversion already.

You can use the '95 rear end by simply changing axles and using the relocation brackets like North Racecars shows in the link I posted earlier. Converting a 4 lug fox drum brake to 5 lug with discs is actually going to cost more than converting a SN95 rear to fox width because the SN95 already has calipers, rotors and hardware. Unless you plan to do a complete rebuild with a ring & pinion change let the existing rear end ratio be your decision maker. Most Fox rears are 2.73 with a smaller number of them being 3.08. SN95 (particularly ones from '96 -'98 Mod motor cars) will be 3.08 with an occasional 3.27. If you run across a 3.55 or lower it wasn't put there from the factory.

Jeff

[MB750]

You can use the '95 rear end by simply changing axles and using the relocation brackets like North Racecars shows in the link I posted earlier. Converting a 4 lug fox drum brake to 5 lug with discs is actually going to cost more than converting a SN95 rear to fox width because the SN95 already has calipers, rotors and hardware. Unless you plan to do a complete rebuild with a ring & pinion change let the existing rear end ratio be your decision maker. Most Fox rears are 2.73 with a smaller number of them being 3.08. SN95 (particularly ones from '96 -'98 Mod motor cars) will be 3.08 with an occasional 3.27. If you run across a 3.55 or lower it wasn't put there from the factory.

Jeff

Jeff, quick question related to this chat.

For my SN-95 axle, if I'm reading correctly, all I need is the 5-lug axles and the caliper offset brackets to give me back that 3/4" I lost correct?

That link above has a kit that I think is all I'll need. It's the kit called "Rear Brackets & Yukon 28 Spline Axles" for $385. I ask because the pic doesn't show the ABS rings, but it also doesn't say they're the Fox length axles either.

I measured the width of my 255 tires and compared it to the width of the body. It's close...

[i.e.427]

The FR500 wheels in a 10.5 can be ordered with an offset for a 94/95 Mustang and should fit in the rear fenders with no issues. Standard Fox Mustang offset will NOT work in a 10.5 rear wheel.

I should have gone a bit further with my answer. Not all wheels listed for 94/95 (SN95) will work. The problem is, as time goes on, more manufacturers group the later 99-2004 wheels into the same group. And here is where we run into issues. While they will? work on a Mustang. They will not work on a Factory Five Mk4. My advise is always to work with a local, reputable tire/wheel shop. They will most always work to find a wheel/tire package that works. Mail order/internet companies often times will not.

Frank

[Blitzboy54]

Where in NYS?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Jeff, quick question related to this chat.

For my SN-95 axle, if I'm reading correctly, all I need is the 5-lug axles and the caliper offset brackets to give me back that 3/4" I lost correct?

That link above has a kit that I think is all I'll need. It's the kit called "Rear Brackets & Yukon 28 Spline Axles" for $385. I ask because the pic doesn't show the ABS rings, but it also doesn't say they're the Fox length axles either.

I measured the width of my 255 tires and compared it to the width of the body. It's close...

Correct. These axles will make it Fox width and the brackets will offset the calipers appropriately.

Jeff

[bigal0043]

Blitzboy- Plattsburgh. So about 2.5 hours north of you.

[CraigS]

W/ that 351 do whatever you need to do to run 315 rear tires. Even those will spin up readily but at least you have a fightn chance of traction vs 275 on 9' wheels.

[Blitzboy54]

Blitzboy- Plattsburgh. So about 2.5 hours north of you.

Nice, Look forward to following along. Feel free to reach out if you need anything. We have a decent size group of Cobras in this area.