Custom Body Design

[Slaughter]

Hey all!

Currently I am waiting for the 818 - but currently the roadster has been driving me bonkers.

A few days ago I was thinking to myself about designing a new body to go over the roadster chassis. I want to be clear, I do not want a redesign but a completely new body that shares the same body mounting points as the roadster.

My question to you all: does anyone know how to/has done this before? Anyone with further information regarding body mounting points and techniques to the roadster?

I am really interested in the idea of hosting a design competition to get this thing off the ground.
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Body design requirements:

- Must be North American legal.

- Must be able to use the roadster chassis without any (major) changes.

- Design submissions must be handing in with solidworks or any other similar CAD software.

*Bonus points for focus on aerodynamics and a "future classic" look - lets make this baby timeless*


Please forward all submissions to superfatho@hotmail.com - If the file is too large, attach a download link to a hosting sight (like mega upload or drop box)

I will offer up at cash prize to the top 3 winners!

Due to recent questions brought up: I will not own any of the design submissions, and make no claim to. As for who I am: follow me on twitter at @EricJSlaughter or add me on Facebook: Eric Slaughter (Toronto, Canada)

P.S.
Please note that I - in no way - ever considered the Mark IV body to be ugly or inferior, quite the opposite in fact. I'm just entertaining the idea of a 100% custom body kit for the roadster.

I have no real desire to start a business out of this - just doing it for FUN.

I have also contacted a design/engineering firm in my area and they have gave me a fair quote to manufacturer any molds for the body.

In terms of material - I'm thinking 100% polished aluminum or carbon fiber - all depends on price and demand.

[Tomh440]

Wheres Hoofa?

[3kcarbon]

Great idea. BIG Project!

[skullandbones]

Are you going to coordinate the design and hand it off to FFR to build and market or is this a business venture that you would support? I can see FFR selling chassis kits to a company for a custum body kit (couldn't hurt their business). That would be pretty cool! Just curious. Thanks, WEK.

[Slaughter]

Hey skullandbones,

To be honest - I'm not thinking of this as a business venture at the moment - I just have some time on my hands (about to graduate university in 4 months) and wanta do something fun before work destroys me. If anything ill see what would have the greater demand - manufacturer the body myself and sell to end customers or F5R themselves (most likely due to low amount of work involved) - or I can purchase the chassis from F5R and just make my own pre-made kit car ....

But yeah, I have no real desire to start a business out of this - just doing it for fun.

Anyways, I have contacted a design/engineering firm in my area and they have gave me a fair quote to manufacturer any molds for the body.

In terms of material - I'm thinking 100% polished aluminum or carbon fiber - all depends on price and demand.

[MARIAH]

I would be curious to see what the designed minded among us could do with this.
Nothing can match the Cobra body, but it would be interesting what shell those designers could fit over that platform.
Post the photos when they are ready.

[Benji]

Is this like an early April Fools? I'm sorry, I don't mean to doubt but when FFR has a competition which includes cash prizes to the top winners I can envisage how they might be able to afford it, but someone who is '4 months from graduating' suggests the same..... you can see where I'm going with this?

I mean sure, you might actually be very smart, have your own businesses making money already or just be from a fortunate background but can you see how regardless of your background you may lack the credibility of someone like FFR to start a competition like this.

Again maybe I've completely missed the boat and you are well know amongst these parts to back up what you say but otherwise what are you suggesting? People should work hard on designs and send them to your Hotmail address?

[riptide motorsport]

If you have nothing nice to say..........

[AC Bill]

How about a carbon fiber Cheetah convertible body?..Now that'd be cool!:) Could be easier to modify, to fit the roadster frame.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m141/12GAGuy/chevycheetah.jpg

[skullandbones]

I think the design comp is an interesting idea. I would like to participate even though I am not a "designer".

I have a CAD program for designing sails which I used while in business. I was interested in a CAD cutter to cut panels for the sails I designed but could not afford a cutter from Germany $$$$$$$$. I met a "new engineering graduate" while crewing on one of the racing boats at a regatta. He was interested in my idea of a low cost cutter. So he went back home and designed a prototype and in 6 months he had the first model for sale and had started the company to market and sell them (German model-$150k / his model-25k). He had access to about 75 sailmakers who also had this same program so it was a ready market. Long story short: I think anything is possible with a good idea behind it. Good luck. WEK.

[Benji]

If you have nothing nice to say..........

Normally I would say a similar thing but actually I think I was fairly diplomatic with my response.... do you not find this 'competition' even remotely a little bit dubious?

Don't get me wrong, I'll all for alternative bodies on a good chassis so I like the idea and if he'd said "why don't we get some of the design entrants of the 818 together and lets see what we can come up with on the MKIV chassis" then I'd be all for it.

But someone is promising money here if they just send in all their work to him...

The competition from FFR had framework, guidelines, rules, proper judges, backing and proper credibility but even then there was frustration around certain aspects of it.

And someone seemingly completely random to you or I promises you money if you send him your work to a completely random Hotmail address....

What happens if he then goes off and makes a load of money off your design? Would you be happy? FFR clearly stated from the outset that all entrants work would become the property of FFR, what's the case here?

Do you see what I'm trying to say?

[Slaughter]

Wow - cool story skullandbones! If I'll need some help with the manufacturing ill PM you.

[Slaughter]

Normally I would say a similar thing but actually I think I was fairly diplomatic with my response.... do you not find this 'competition' even remotely a little bit dubious?

Don't get me wrong, I'll all for alternative bodies on a good chassis so I like the idea and if he'd said "why don't we get some of the design entrants of the 818 together and lets see what we can come up with on the MKIV chassis" then I'd be all for it.

But someone is promising money here if they just send in all their work to him...

The competition from FFR had framework, guidelines, rules, proper judges, backing and proper credibility but even then there was frustration around certain aspects of it.

And someone seemingly completely random to you or I promises you money if you send him your work to a completely random Hotmail address....

What happens if he then goes off and makes a load of money off your design? Would you be happy? FFR clearly stated from the outset that all entrants work would become the property of FFR, what's the case here?

Do you see what I'm trying to say?

I understand where you are coming from - so let me state this here: I will not own any of the design submissions. The cash prize is merely an incentive to foster participation - I have not even decided on the amount I'm willing to let go. Also, I live in Canada - where school prices are about 1/3 of the states, and I have been very lucky to obtaining great jobs, so cash is not a worry.

[Xusia]

I hope someone submits a design that includes roll up windows and real top - maybe even a targa or coupe!

[KC Wildcat]

Hey, whatever floats your boat. To me, the question is why? Yes, the roadster has a great frame - strong and proven. But why deal with all the limitations? The short wheelbase is bad for handling. The limited seating area, footboxes, etc. Front and rear structure, etc?

Sure their frame is available, but sounds like an awful lot of work to end up with a compromise. Let's face it, we love the car for the look and historical aspects. It handles like a brute and is as aerodynamic as a brick. Why do you think FFR created new frames when developing new products (new body designs) like the GTM and 818.

All that being said - good luck!

[kitcarj]

It does seem a little strange and it would be nice to have FF's OK before floating an idea like this on there forum.
I was going to point out that he didn't say how much money but he answered that.
I only had a little college and I am a lousy speller but I even know that aerodynamics is not spelled arrow dynamics.
You never know who someone on here really is.
Could be totally legit though.

[skullandbones]

I take back everything I said. I have an excuse. I have been sick with acute sinusitus and broncitus so I have not been thinking clearly. I am now on antibiotics. I have also listened to some of the other responses. After thinking about it, with more clarity, I have decided a more aerodynamic roadster already exists. It's called a Daytona Coupe!!! So I guess we don't need to go there. You wouldnt' take a GTM chassis and redesign that body for obvious reasons. Those Subi guys are handling the 818 body. I still stick to my guns that you shouldn't nicks a guy's idea just because he's still in school. He could be one of those crazy people like Steve Jobs. You never know. Cough - cough. WEK.

[Olimk2]

I've done this kind of project 13 years ago for gardner douglas in UK...called GD gt, never went to production.
http://www.fugitives.co.uk/gdgt1.jpg

http://s6.images.drive2.ru/community.blog.photos/x5/0400/000/000/102/666/88ce3459b1103632-large.jpg

[olpro]

Hey skullandbones,

To be honest - I'm not thinking of this as a business venture at the moment - I just have some time on my hands (about to graduate university in 4 months) and wanta do something fun before work destroys me. If anything ill see what would have the greater demand - manufacturer the body myself and sell to end customers or F5R themselves (most likely due to low amount of work involved) - or I can purchase the chassis from F5R and just make my own pre-made kit car ....

But yeah, I have no real desire to start a business out of this - just doing it for fun.

Anyways, I have contacted a design/engineering firm in my area and they have gave me a fair quote to manufacturer any molds for the body.

In terms of material - I'm thinking 100% polished aluminum or carbon fiber - all depends on price and demand.

I would be suspicious of a quote on building molds unless the company has demonstrated some experience doing exactly this kind of job. Generally you probably have to figure at least $1000 per foot for a plug, the molds to be taken are extra. You are probably looking at 30K or more by the time you have taken into account all the hidden but needed surfaces like door jams, etc. That is just for the tooling.
The designers will be putting a lot of time into their part. Are you willing to pony up at least 5K for the winners? Personally I wouldn't touch it on a speculative basis but there are students, etc. who might take the chance.

[crash]

Yes, I got a great deal from some VERY experienced mould makers, and I am looking at $20k, so you are not off base with a $30k estimate. Most people have NO IDEA what building a plug and moulds is really about. I've been cutting, gluing, and shaping for about a year now and have AT LEAST six more months and 10 more gallons of body filler to go. I'm thinking this was simply a young guy surfing the internet during the holidays and an idea popped into his head. Nothing wrong with this, but the reality is that what he is proposing is A LOT of work, no matter how you slice it or how well funded you may be.

Just for referrence, here's a pic of the GTM-R...

[carbon fiber]

tell 'em crash. making molds is the easy part. i could teach someone to make molds in no time. the design and creation of the shape is the hard part. TONS OF LABOR.

[Slaughter]

Derp - my bad, Please notice that I posted that at 3 A.M. - Thus all poor spelling is forgiven! As I stated, this project is all just for fun - see what this community can produce! See the top post to find out who I am!

[Slaughter]

Why thank you!

[RonSchofield]

Yes, I got a great deal from some VERY experienced mould makers, and I am looking at $20k, so you are not off base with a $30k estimate. Most people have NO IDEA what building a plug and moulds is really about.

Yes. Mold making is a lot of work. I am up to 23 molds for my coupe with a few more to go. The plugs are the most demanding part, especially when you have to match left and right. Once you spend a lot of time getting the correct shape on one side, you have to make templates to match the other side.

http://www.mycoupe.ca/modules/wordpress/images/20100123_1.jpg

http://www.mycoupe.ca/modules/wordpress/images/20100123_2.jpg

I spent a year just making the plugs, molds and final pieces for the passenger compartment. So I have a good idea on how much work it is.

http://www.mycoupe.ca/modules/wordpress/images/20111213_1.jpg

http://www.mycoupe.ca/modules/wordpress/images/20111213_2.jpg

That being said, if Factory Five doesn't build Rodney's Orange 818, I plan to make it myself.

Ron

[crash]

That being said, if Factory Five doesn't build Rodney's Orange 818, I plan to make it myself.

Ron

I hear ya. I'm not looking to make something that doesn't say "FFR GTM", but at the same time, I have changed just about EVERY deminsion and detail possible. If you take a quick look, yeah, you will recognize it as a GTM, but the details are VERY different. One of my goals is to have someone say to me, after studying MY car, is, "why didn't FFR do it that way"?

I really believe that if FFR paid more attention to some of the things being done with cars/designs on the forums, they could have their entire R&D team for free, and end up with a BETTER product. Guess maybe I shouldn't second guess them as things have worked out "pretty well" so far. :)

If nothing else, with prototype models FFR needs to send them out to guys that live and breath this stuff for evaluation. Not to buddies, not to guys that are just close to the shop, and not guys that are "yes men", but to guys that will give an honest critique of what their design lacks from all points of view that the "pros" know about. I can tell you that THAT is what really should have happened with the GTM and I'm sure they would have sold many more of those kits.

[RonSchofield]

I hear ya. I'm not looking to make something that doesn't say "FFR GTM", but at the same time, I have changed just about EVERY deminsion and detail possible. If you take a quick look, yeah, you will recognize it as a GTM, but the details are VERY different. One of my goals is to have someone say to me, after studying MY car, is, "why didn't FFR do it that way"?

I really believe that if FFR paid more attention to some of the things being done with cars/designs on the forums, they could have their entire R&D team for free, and end up with a BETTER product. Guess maybe I shouldn't second guess them as things have worked out "pretty well" so far. :)

If nothing else, with prototype models FFR needs to send them out to guys that live and breath this stuff for evaluation. Not to buddies, not to guys that are just close to the shop, and not guys that are "yes men", but to guys that will give an honest critique of what their design lacks from all points of view that the "pros" know about. I can tell you that THAT is what really should have happened with the GTM and I'm sure they would have sold many more of those kits.

I agree totally. I have changed a lot of things on mycoupe because I see things that are lacking for myself and lacking for others (like bumpers mounts). I have posted all my changes to my build blog and others are free to copy them. Now I am selling some of the parts that I came up with.

Ron