Another Power Steering Pump Location Thread

[mach'er]

I feel I have over constrained my system. I want to use this brass expansion tank that I now have in hand (pictured), which means the alternator can't be the high mount position on the passenger side. This seems to eliminate the serpentine systems I'm aware of, though I don't claim to know all of them (so if you know of one that'd work, please let me know). So, I'm looking at non-serpentine systems, and there's plenty of alternator location solutions.
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My build is using a mechanical fuel pump, mounted to the block - which when combined with the limitations caused by the steering shaft, seemingly limits options for the passenger side PS pump location.

I've already spent too much on stuff that wont work. I had a March serpentine system, before I decided that I just HAD to go with that expansion tank. But now can't use it because of the alternator location. I ordered a CVF v-belt system (which is supposed to arrive today), but now after the fact forum research says it'll hit the steering shaft. [Yes, I wish I had done that research prior to ordering. Lesson learned.]

But, before I return that CVF system, I'm wondering if anyone knows if the just straight up stock location for early SBF PS locations has been tried with respect to the Roadster steering shaft. I'm thinking about trying this type of bracket and it's location:
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Does anyone know whether that OEM location with the older Ford PS pump works with the Roadster steering shaft? I know it works with the mechanical fuel pump. My head is thinking I could use the CVF stuff that's arriving today, but use this PS location instead, and just need to figure out getting the pulleys aligned on the same plane on that PS side. If this won't work, then I'll need to find something that will, but still meet what I'm trying to do.

I'd have never guessed that figuring out a FEAD system would even be a speedbump. Let alone turn into a thing.

Thanks for any experience you can share, or thoughts you may have.
-Curt

[flyboyjy]

I have the CVF V-belt on my 351W and a Saginaw power steering pump and it definitely will not work without hitting the steering shaft. The solution was to get the CVF 351C power steering bracket. I didn't take any comparison pictures but they are different in length and shape. I would try that before sending it all back.

[flyboyjy]

I know the part number is here on some ones build page but here is the link to the part. https://www.cvfracing.com/ford-351c-power-steering-bracket/

[Ted G]

CVF will fit. It is close, but it'll fit. I believe CVF aslo make a cobra bracket that will lower the pump. The Ford pump will not fit but here is a picture of my Saginaw pump:

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[flyboyjy]

Here is close up picture of mine with 351C bracket and Saginaw pump. 184935

[mach'er]

Thanks for all the info and pictures. It looks like you've each got a 351W based motor, with the taller deck height. I'm using a 302 big bore block with the 8.2" deck height.

I don't know whether or not a 351C bracket from CVF would work on my engine. It sounds promising, and I'll look further into it.

Thanks.

[CraigS]

I don't know if this will help you or not. On my 408 I wanted to do a PS pump so got a mount from Breeze for driver side. But the belt needed to go up to clear the water pump as it went across to the alt.
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So I got a long piece of 7/16 threaded rod, some aluminum tube to make spacer sleeves and found a serp belt idler pulley. Hung all that from the top inner hole in the driver head. I have also seen a friend's car where he used the two water pump bolts just to the left of my pulley and a piece of 1/4 aluminum plate to make a bracket to do almost the same thing. BTW the pump is from a 99 Explorer. It is a Saginaw style w/ a remote reservoir this #.
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They are also have a style w/ included reservoir but I have not used it.

[kobra01]

I also used cvf v belt pulleys, brackets and a Saginaw pump. It does require a 351C bracket so I had to change my water pump to a 351C water pump and it worked. My ford crate motor came with a cheap Chinese water pump so I didn’t mind changing the pump to a good one. Maybe you could just re-drill the 351C bracket holes to line up with your block.

[Ted G]

Hey Curt,

Here are those pics of my CVF bracket location and pump.

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[brewha]

Hi Curt
I’ve had the CVF belt system for over 4 years on my 1968 302 block (stroked to 331). I talked to CVF about how the power steering upper bracket interferes with the F5 steering shaft and sent them all kind of measurements in hoping they’d engineer a new upper bracket. All is not lost though… I made a template of the upper holes and just moved them in about 2 inches and now have plenty of clearance.
If I didn’t tell you that they moved you would never even know they were moved. Here are some pics where you can see the changed holes.185220185221185222185223

I would call them to see if they made a new bracket after several of us called and complained about needing a change. If not, just redrill the holes. Good luck with your project.

Btw…. Make sure you have the correct water pump.

[flyboyjy]

I will get more pictures tonight but here is the one I do have of the clearance between the bracket and steer shaft. Mounts in the exact same place as what everyone else has in their pictures and I used the same rear support as brewha.

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[flyboyjy]

Here are pictures of the CVF 351C bracket mounted on my 351 W. Mounts in the same place as the bracket that came with the CVF bracket kit.

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[Jeff's First FFR]

Get the CVF bracket for an early BRONCO. No interference.

[mach'er]

I appreciate all the feedback, pictures, and shared experiences. Here's the direction I'm taking after absorbing what I could.

I called CVF yesterday, and sent back just the Ford PS pump, bracket, and pulley from the kit I had ordered. It sounded like they’ve done this sort of “hey, I need to exchange part of the kit I ordered for something else, in order for it to work with my build” thing before. They're going to exchange for a Saginaw P PS pump, bracket, pulley, pressure reducer, and adapter. I have to call tomorrow with the tracking number, and they’ll reportedly get the replacement stuff sent out. If they continue with the customer service the way it has seemed so far, I’ll be quite happy (since I’m the one that ordered the wrong stuff).

I did have to order a regular rotation SBF Windsor water pump. I’ve taken my prior reverse rotation water pump off, and am waiting for Summit Santa to show up with the new one. All the old March FEAD stuff is off too, meaning the engine's ready to go, just waiting on parts. I chose the water pump based on all the pictures you guys posted. I think it'll work for both the 289/302/351W bracket, and the 351C bracket - based on what I can find on the web anyway.

@flyboyjy… I think I see a backing plate on your water pump. If that's right, I think you did the Cleveland bracket with the normal SBF water pump – rather than switching to a 351C water pump. Is that right? Normal Windsor WP? If so, that would give me confidence that if CVF will send me a 351C bracket in exchange for what I sent back, I'd go that way. Otherwise, I'll probably be machining the 302 bracket following @brewha's lead.

It seems like a sound plan, but I feel like I thought the same thing long ago about the prior FEAD plan. So, cross my fingers, roll the dice, and pull out the debit card, because here we go again. Except this time, I feel like I have a bit of education behind what I'm ordering up.

Thanks again everyone. This is totally going to work. Or at least I've convinced myself it will.
-Curt

[flyboyjy]

I appreciate all the feedback, pictures, and shared experiences. Here's the direction I'm taking after absorbing what I could.

I called CVF yesterday, and sent back just the Ford PS pump, bracket, and pulley from the kit I had ordered. It sounded like they’ve done this sort of “hey, I need to exchange part of the kit I ordered for something else, in order for it to work with my build” thing before. They're going to exchange for a Saginaw P PS pump, bracket, pulley, pressure reducer, and adapter. I have to call tomorrow with the tracking number, and they’ll reportedly get the replacement stuff sent out. If they continue with the customer service the way it has seemed so far, I’ll be quite happy (since I’m the one that ordered the wrong stuff).

I did have to order a regular rotation SBF Windsor water pump. I’ve taken my prior reverse rotation water pump off, and am waiting for Summit Santa to show up with the new one. All the old March FEAD stuff is off too, meaning the engine's ready to go, just waiting on parts. I chose the water pump based on all the pictures you guys posted. I think it'll work for both the 289/302/351W bracket, and the 351C bracket - based on what I can find on the web anyway.

@flyboyjy… I think I see a backing plate on your water pump. If that's right, I think you did the Cleveland bracket with the normal SBF water pump – rather than switching to a 351C water pump. Is that right? Normal Windsor WP? If so, that would give me confidence that if CVF will send me a 351C bracket in exchange for what I sent back, I'd go that way. Otherwise, I'll probably be machining the 302 bracket following @brewha's lead.

It seems like a sound plan, but I feel like I thought the same thing long ago about the prior FEAD plan. So, cross my fingers, roll the dice, and pull out the debit card, because here we go again. Except this time, I feel like I have a bit of education behind what I'm ordering up.

Thanks again everyone. This is totally going to work. Or at least I've convinced myself it will.
-Curt

Hey yeah it is just a stock ford water pump and it will fit a 289/302/351W. The only part on that engine that I know for sure that is interchangeable with a 351C IS that power steering bracket.

[MPTech]

Sorry, not trying to take your post in a different direction, but wanted to ask: how are you mounting an expansion tank on a SBF? I know the thermostat housing mounting bracket is designed for a BBF and not compatible.

[mach'er]

Sorry, not trying to take your post in a different direction, but wanted to ask: how are you mounting an expansion tank on a SBF? I know the thermostat housing mounting bracket is designed for a BBF and not compatible.

No worries, man. This thread can go wherever it may wander. I bought the thing back in 2017 from a place called Cap-A-Radiator in Farmingdale, NY (still have the receipt). It's for a SBF (part number was EXP-2 Ford New, Expansion Tank 302/351W). I wish I would have gotten it chromed (personal choice, I like 'em that way), but I didn't. It just bolts right in place for the t-stat outlet - but as mentioned above, it also blocks the alternator location of serpentine belt systems. This photo is as it sits now, waiting for my normal rotation water pump to show up, along with the v-belt FEAD - but the reverse rotation WP and the tank are just loosely in place.
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I just Googled them, and they're still around; however, I don't see anything on their site about these tanks. Maybe reach out and see what they say?


EDIT: Dang, I just thought of it, maybe I can have it powder coated (given that I didn't have it chromed). I dropped off 5 things at the powder coater guy's place on Tuesday - I should go add this and do the same argent silver that I've used on a lot of other pieces. Thanks for bringing this up!

Thanks.
-Curt

[MPTech]

I appreciate all the feedback, pictures, and shared experiences. Here's the direction I'm taking after absorbing what I could.
.
.
.
Thanks again everyone. This is totally going to work. Or at least I've convinced myself it will.
-Curt

Hey mach'er, what was your final solution for your PS bracket / pump interference with the steering shaft?
Just re-installed my rebuilt 347 yesterday and I now find myself in the exact same situation (I have the ribbed belt instead of the v-belt).
I was able to install the CVF bracket and PS pump, but it is too close for my comfort and the pump is max'd to the right and clocked at about 11:00. Do they offer a shorter bracket?

[Jonathan D]

Hey mach'er, what was your final solution for your PS bracket / pump interference with the steering shaft?
Just re-installed my rebuilt 347 yesterday and I now find myself in the exact same situation (I have the ribbed belt instead of the v-belt).
I was able to install the CVF bracket and PS pump, but it is too close for my comfort and the pump is max'd to the right and clocked at about 11:00. Do they offer a shorter bracket?

I think Jeffs First FFR was saying you need this.... "Get the CVF bracket for an early BRONCO. No interference."

[CDXXVII]

I just converted a few months ago to power steering. I can’t believe I drove nearly 10,000 miles without it.

No issues with alternator or expansion tank. I do not have a mechanical fuel pump so I can not confirm that you will have space for it with this setup.

Saginaw Pump, AGR Steering Rack, March Pulley Set.

Sorry about the orientation of the photos.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188886&d=1692132110

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153022

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153021

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153023

[Jeff's First FFR]

I think Jeffs First FFR was saying you need this.... "Get the CVF bracket for an early BRONCO. No interference."

URL for BRONCO bracket:

https://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-power-steering-bracket-billet-ford-pump-289-302-1965-1969-bronco-1966-1977/p/PSPB9/?year=1969&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6KKg1pTfgAMV-K5aBR00uQLCEAQYBCABEgJ6j_D_BwE[/IMG]

[MPTech]

.......

Saginaw Pump, AGR Steering Rack, March Pulley Set.



CDXXVII, this is almost the EXACT setup I have (with the dual 8-rib serpentine belt setup), but I have the CVF bracket that came with the set. I've modified the bracket (drilled 2 new holes, per brewha). I'm running a Gates K080360 belt, but need something just a little smaller, but not seeing anything.
Please, can you tell me what belt you are running? (part number please)
Thanks!

If this doesn't work (shorter belt), I'm going to look at using the 351C or Bronco bracket.

[Rdone585]

If you take a look here: https://www.dirtydingo.com/shop/pages.php?pID=101&CDpath=4_21 it has belt part numbers listed my the length of the belt. Maybe you can find what you need from the list.

[MPTech]

URL for BRONCO bracket:

https://www.cjponyparts.com/scott-drake-power-steering-bracket-billet-ford-pump-289-302-1965-1969-bronco-1966-1977/p/PSPB9/?year=1969&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6KKg1pTfgAMV-K5aBR00uQLCEAQYBCABEgJ6j_D_BwE[/IMG]

This bracket works with the Saginaw pump? I received the bracket today and was able to mount the bracket on the block ('93 302), but I can't figure out how the PS Pump mounts to the bracket. None of the holes align(?)

This puzzle is driving me nuts, I've spent hours trying to get this installed.


CDXXVII, can you tell me what bracket and belt are you running? That doesn't look like the Bronco bracket or the original CVF bracket that came with my CVF accessory kit and I've also tried 2 belts: K080334 (too short) and K080360 (too long), not finding anything between. PLEASE tell me your setup pictured.


I just converted a few months ago to power steering. I can’t believe I drove nearly 10,000 miles without it.

No issues with alternator or expansion tank. I do not have a mechanical fuel pump so I can not confirm that you will have space for it with this setup.

Saginaw Pump, AGR Steering Rack, March Pulley Set.

Sorry about the orientation of the photos.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188886&d=1692132110

[CDXXVII]

This bracket works with the Saginaw pump? I received the bracket today and was able to mount the bracket on the block ('93 302), but I can't figure out how the PS Pump mounts to the bracket. None of the holes align(?)

This puzzle is driving me nuts, I've spent hours trying to get this installed.


CDXXVII, can you tell me what bracket and belt are you running? That doesn't look like the Bronco bracket or the original CVF bracket that came with my CVF accessory kit and I've also tried 2 belts: K080334 (too short) and K080360 (too long), not finding anything between. PLEASE tell me your setup pictured.

So sorry for the delay.

The March bracket kit is - March Pulley Set Part Number 30382. This is for a 351 Windsor Block. I used this pump. It is already setup for lower pressure required for a Mustang rack.
Tuff Stuff Performance Power Steering Pumps 6174B

I will try and get you the belt sizes I used. I also had a heck of a time finding the proper belt sizes. Every brand has their own interpretation of a specific belt size.

I ended up using Bando brand belts. They offer belts in small incremental sizes and I was able to narrow it down to the correct belt. The power steering belt was the biggest pain because you have very little space next to the steering column.

[MPTech]

CDXXVII,
THANKS! I'll take a look at the March Brackets, but I just zoomed in on your belt pictures and realized they are 6 rib, my CVF pullies are 8 rib. Ugh, still looking.
I called BluePrint before I ordered these and they told me this setup and the v-belt would both fit, just need to decide if I wanted to go Serpentine or V-belt. This isn't as plug&play as they suggested.

[Norm B]

Sorry for the response. Ran into the same issue and made my own bracket modifying the stock Ford racket and making an adjustment plate.
Not real pretty but, works fine.

Norm

[CDXXVII]

CDXXVII,
THANKS! I'll take a look at the March Brackets, but I just zoomed in on your belt pictures and realized they are 6 rib, my CVF pullies are 8 rib. Ugh, still looking.
I called BluePrint before I ordered these and they told me this setup and the v-belt would both fit, just need to decide if I wanted to go Serpentine or V-belt. This isn't as plug&play as they suggested.

Yeah, getting these things right is a bit of a pain. I am really happy with my setup. Super clean and works great. Here are the belts I am using just in case.

Dayco 5060400 6PK1015S
Bando RIB-ACE 6PK915

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189124&d=1692564031

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189125&d=1692564031

[MPTech]

Thanks guys, for allowing me to vent / bounce ideas / collect suggestions.
I've still got some minor tweaking & shims to perfect the alignment, but I'm 99% there!
A couple days ago I drilled 2 new holes about 1 1/4" from original location in my brand new bracket, this is as far as I could move it without having to make cuts and put the PS Pulley about 1/32" from the steering shaft (too close for my comfort). After trying 3 different belts and my new "Bronco" bracket failure, I decided to break out the template paper and the cut-off wheel on the original CVF bracket. I measured, measured, measured, then measured again and made the cuts and new holes, moving the mounting inward a total of 2".
SUCCESS!!
That's what I LOVE about these cars, they are a challenge and not for everyone! If is doesn't fit, MAKE IT fit. :p :cool:
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Thanks Again guys! Not sure if I would have attempted it without seeing everyone elses success. THAT's motivation.