Hard top project

[John4337]

A friend acquired an ERA that had this top on it that he didn’t want. It was a great deal, so I think I’ll take a run at making it work. I’m planning on removing the big Gurney bump. I’ll have to come up with mounting, the bolt thru the the soft top ferrule looked a bit iffy. I got it home and just set it on my mk4. It’s pretty close.

[cob427sc]

Looks do able. Good luck and keep us updated.

[CraigS]

If the ferrel attachment at the body is solid you will be fine. My APE top used a classic Corvette attachment system at nearly the same location.
https://www.ecklerscorvette.com/1963-1975-corvette-hardtop-side-mounting-bolt-set-25-114799-1.html
The second from the top piece was installed in a hole in the fiberglass and held there by the lower nut and washer. I didn't use the supplied bolt though. I found that an old air cleaner bolt was much easier to use. The APE top was also fastened at the windshield. But a couple of times I found those fastners had worked lose. They were still there but not functioning. There was no problem though because the side fastners held the top fine by themselves. The only shortcoming I see is if you have side windows. That fastner doesn't seem to have a very good lateral location function. If the sides of the top can move in and out it will be harder to get windows to stay sealed. Keep us posted on your progress please.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I did a Mk4 with an APE hardtop last year. As you can see the profile is quite a bit different from the ERA version:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182647&d=1680873350

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182648&d=1664986689

Although the APE top was sold by the manufacturer as being for a Mk4 it didn't fit and I had to do some surgery to get it to actually match the body.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182650&d=1680873603

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182649&d=1680873478

It looks like you'll have to be doing some of the same...but it's just fiberglass and completely doable!

Keep us updated!

Jeff

[John4337]

Thanks Jeff, I’m not sure who made this top. The guy I got it from knows those who run ERA and they don’t make a top. I really wish FFR would do one up. I got into this one real cheap, so I’ll give it a shot, sorta make it up as I go.

[John4337]

Thanks Craig. I’m going to give it a run. It looks like that despite the offset bracket they were using, the top is a bit narrow at the rear door openings, I guessing that those bolts pulled in as well as down. I’ll look at the corvette stuff. I have this crazy idea of trying to use the mounts that I have in place for my Rod Top, not sure if that will go, we’ll see.

[John4337]

Here are some more photos with measurements. My thought is to add material to the lower edge of the top to come to the contour of the body. As the top has a detail mounded into it, I’m not certain where make the cut, above the detail, or below. These are taken starting behind the passenger door, around the back, and to the drivers door.

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Also, looking for thoughts on the process of removing the windows. Warm the gaskets with a hair dryer or something?

Thanks,

John

[John4337]

I've pulled the windows and weatherstrip off. My goal is to mount the top in such a way that I can go back to my soft top, which means using the soft top points. I cobbled together this as a proof of concept but it looks like it will work. A buddy who is a machinist came over and took some measurements to make some nice brackets to replace these. Next step is to cut off the lower part of the top and place spacers to get it to line up with the body. I'm shooting for about a 3/8 inch gap to allow room for weatherstrip. Thoughts or ideas are always welcome.

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[CraigS]

I think I would make the cut as low as you can so all you take off is the flange portion. I think that, if you take any of the vertical with your cut piece, the piece will be too stiff to bend to fill in those low spots. Another option would be to just ad filler to the bottom of the existing flange. Others who do more fiberglass work may have other options but I have used West System epoxy w/ one of their powdered additives.
https://www.westsystem.com/filler-selection-guide/
You just stir it into the epoxy. Some of the powders make it real easy to sand once hardened.

[John4337]

Well, I took a deep breath and took a cut off wheel to it. The top had a ridge detail around the beltline, I elected to cut that out because I really didn't think I could get it to look right after adding in the material to fill the gap, and it moves the bottom of the top forward a bit to give me more clearance for the trunk lid to open.

The contour looks pretty good on the drivers side, the passenger side not so much.

Craig, thanks for the tip on the glass product, I'll take a look.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183164&d=1681847001

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183163&d=1681847001

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183162&d=1681847001

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183166&d=1681847037

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183165&d=1681847037

[CraigS]

Are you planning on side windows? Reason I ask is the APE windows are made from 1/4 in lexan which only flexes so much. That means that, looking from a rear view, the angle from vertical of the top needs to be pretty close the angle of the windshield post (from a rear view). That might affect how you attach the top to the body.

[John4337]

Are you planning on side windows? Reason I ask is the APE windows are made from 1/4 in lexan which only flexes so much. That means that, looking from a rear view, the angle from vertical of the top needs to be pretty close the angle of the windshield post (from a rear view). That might affect how you attach the top to the body.

It already has quarter windows, which I was happy to see when I found it, saved me some work. My proposeed anchor point will come off that screw you see between the door and quarter window.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182628&d=1680823040

[John4337]

Today’s progress on the top project. May actually pull this off.

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[Real Time]

Looks like a good start.
Im really enjoying this.

[John4337]

Here's a progress report. I worked yesterday fine tuning the alignment at the bottom, think I have it pretty close. Today, I cleaned it and started the glass work. Somewhat challenging because I was often working on a near vertical surface, but I got it. I'll let it set up good and assess where I need to add more.

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[CraigS]

This is looking real good John.

[John4337]

Well, I've pulled the frankenstraps off, done an initial rough sanding and set it back on the car with the gasket that was on it. Give me your thoughts. For the hardtop users out there, what type/size gaskets are you using and what sort of gap between the top and the body? This one looks to be standing a bit proud. Ignore the gasket in the next to last photo, I have to fiberglass inside the lip thats not allowing the gasket to settle correctly and its rolled to the inside of the top.

Thanks.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183470&d=1682369103

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183469&d=1682369103

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183468&d=1682369103

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183466&d=1682369103

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183467&d=1682369103

[Jeff Kleiner]

You're doing good! It's a whole lot like what I had to do to make an APE top fit a Mk4. I'd run a couple of layers of glass on the exterior now then knock down the high spots and start with the filler.

Jeff

[John4337]

You're doing good! It's a whole lot like what I had to do to make an APE top fit a Mk4. I'd run a couple of layers of glass on the exterior now then knock down the high spots and start with the filler.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff,

What are your thoughts on the gap with the gasket in place? OK, or too much?

[CraigS]

Gap looks acceptable to me. Is it sealing in that valley inside of the fender? I did the drop butt mod on my MkII which gave it closer to a MkIV shape at the back of the top. Top had already been painted and I just couldn't bring myself to mess w/ it knowing it would need a repaint. So my gap was larger than yours.
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I decreased to about 3/8" at the door. Since my top was always on the car I got used to it.

[Jeff Kleiner]

John,
On the car with the APE top I used a fairly soft "D" seal that was 5/8" relaxed but compressed to around 3/8" with the weight of the top and was pretty consistent all the way around. This pic kind of shows the resulting gap.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183509&d=1682426527

That said, it looks like you'll end up with more than that but I think it'll be OK. If you want to try to close the gap a little more take a look at other weatherstrip/seal options.

Jeff

[John4337]

Gap looks acceptable to me. Is it sealing in that valley inside of the fender? I did the drop butt mod on my MkII which gave it closer to a MkIV shape at the back of the top. Top had already been painted and I just couldn't bring myself to mess w/ it knowing it would need a repaint. So my gap was larger than yours.
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I decreased to about 3/8" at the door. Since my top was always on the car I got used to it.

The corner on the DS had a stray glob of fiberglass on the lip that didn’t let the seal go on correctly. Also the lip on the top is wider than the depth of the seal channel so it looks recessed under the top, I’m thinking of trimming the lip to fit it better. Also that seal is pretty thick relaxed, maybe I need something a bit thinner.

[John4337]

John,
On the car with the APE top I used a fairly soft "D" seal that was 5/8" relaxed but compressed to around 3/8" with the weight of the top and was pretty consistent all the way around. This pic kind of shows the resulting gap.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183509&d=1682426527

That said, it looks like you'll end up with more than that but I think it'll be OK. If you want to try to close the gap a little more take a look at other weatherstrip/seal options.

Jeff



Thanks Jeff, I thing I may have to go a bit thinner on the seal and get it closer to the edge of the top.

[John4337]

Here it is sitting on the car without the gasket.

[Cutter 54]

Nice work John. Anxious to see the outcome.

A few questions, if I may.

-John, if you have the Rod Top, why bother with a hard top? Are there significant downsides with the soft top?
-John and Jeff; I see both cars you illustrate have under car exhaust. Are the rear pipes through the transverse frame tube, or do they snake around the rear axles inside the rear wheel wells?
-Jeff; I can see what look like AC vents in the dash. Can you share any details on how the AC install was done?

Gathering ideas for my Mk 4 first build. Ed Klein Long Island.
Thanks to both.

[frd2]

Ed -

My car that Jeff did so thought I would answer.

The undercar exhaust does not go through any frame members. Under the seats, then inwards and under the lower A arm for 2015 IRS. it is below the frame in places.......

The AC is from Richard Oben - North Race Cars. Works OK with a top on. Heat also. I have a gen 1 coyote. I think it has interference issues w the gen 3.

I do love the undercar exhaust. Definitely a different look, and lots quieter. Plus you don't smell like the exhaust when you get out.

Greg

[John4337]

Nice work John. Anxious to see the outcome.

A few questions, if I may.

-John, if you have the Rod Top, why bother with a hard top? Are there significant downsides with the soft top?
-John and Jeff; I see both cars you illustrate have under car exhaust. Are the rear pipes through the transverse frame tube, or do they snake around the rear axles inside the rear wheel wells?
-Jeff; I can see what look like AC vents in the dash. Can you share any details on how the AC install was done?

Gathering ideas for my Mk 4 first build. Ed Klein Long Island.
Thanks to both.

Ed,

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Rod Top, it's a great piece and has served us well for a long time now. The only downside is the zip in side curtains. They work great, but are a few things that I don't like. One, they make it somewhat tedious to get in and out of the car, and two, there is no way to open them for ventilation on the move unless you pull over and stop. Also, if you don't have them in and need them, you have to pull over and put them in. As to why the hard top? We find that we have the top on more and more as sitting in the sun becomes less appealing and I like the idea of a top that I can put a little insulation in and affix door mounted windows with sliding sections. Lastly because I think its a cool project. I stumbled upon this top that is pretty close in appearance to the original Berry tops at a great price so I'm in.

As for the exhaust, mine runs under the footboxes, mufflers under the seats and under the IRS lower control arms andour the back. I built it all myself with Ford racing shorty headers, SpinTech mufflers and a generic pipe kit from Summit. I made the hangers as I needed them. If you're interested, PM your email and I'll send some photos. We really like it. A bit quieter and no snake bites.

[Cutter 54]

John and Greg: Thank you both for the quick replies.
Greg, seems your exhaust is similar to John's. Much simpler than a through-the-frame build.
Someone else mentioned North Race Cars to me for the AC, so I take it they do a nice job. I recently bought a second home in Central Florida and if I use the car down here it seems AC would be mandatory. Or am I mistaken? You Southern guys would be better judges at how driving a hot rod down south is. If it is not a game changer I am tempted to do without. Simple is much better for these cars (and for my aging brain).

John I found your albums and saw the photos of the exhaust build. Looks simple, neat and not too hard. I really like it.
I hear your gripes about the windows. As an aside, I have been in touch with Rick Young (CRZN427) regarding custom plexiglass side and rear windows. Boy does he do nice work, based on his photos and history of top fabrication. Real professional stuff. I am thinking of a soft top (Rod Tops) AND plexiglass side windows which could be used with or without the top, if done right. I recall CraigS mentioning in an email to me how his rear window is easily removable for better circulation. I like that idea.

I love how both of your cars look. Clean profile and GREEN PAINT. I am a sucker for green myself.

Thank you both again. Great stuff going on here.

[John4337]

if you do the Rod Top, order the quarter windows and the zip down rear window. Mine's an early one and they weren't available then. I was in S. Florida when I built my car and I also have Rich Oben's AC/heat and I don't regret it a bit, but don't expect daily driver performance. The system works well, but the car isn't sealed and there's a lot of hot air intrusion. With the top on and the windows in, it does take the edge off. It really shines should you get caught in the rain, keeps the car from becoming a sauna.

[Cutter 54]

Appreciate the advice. Will look into Rich Oben.

[CraigS]

For anyone w/ a hard top and plexiglass rear window here is how I did mine. BTW it is a good idea to do your first one in plexiglass and once it cracks order lexan.
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There were 4 of these across the bottom. It is hard to see but this tab is mounted to the fiberglass w/ a 10-32 SS machine screw w/ a nice looking had on the outside of the fiberglass and a fender washer and nylock nut inside. So the screw is locked to the fiberglass. Then another nut, washer, the 1/16 sheet metal tab (about 5/8x1.5" and wrapped in sticky back felt), washer, and nylock nut. The two nuts on either side of the tab allow you to adjust how close the lexan is to the fiberglass. The tab has a slight bend in it so the top end is further from the fiberglass. This lets you slide the window down into the lower tabs and compress the D seal at the same time. Then you push the top of the window toward the fiberglass. There are 4 more tabs up there much the same as the lower tabs except that the tab is allowed to swivel on the bolt.
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You can see in this pic where the black bed liner that was on the inside of the APE top has pulled away. I originally had the D seal stuck to the top but it kept pulling away. Finally I stuck it to the lexan and it stayed just fine. It takes some fiddling to get the seal to compress just right all the way across but I found it to be quite waterproof after I found to put seal joint at the top.

[John4337]

I glassed the bigger gaps on the outside and did a bit of filler and a rough sand and set the top back on to see where I'm at. Looks like I'll have to rework the spot under the back window. Seems to be sitting high, but its closer.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183575&d=1682522790

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183574&d=1682522790

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183573&d=1682522790

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https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183578&d=1682522881

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183576&d=1682522881

[egchewy79]

impressive work. thanks for sharing. can't wait to see the finished product.

[John4337]

The longer I looked at it, I knew I wouldn't be happy with that gap below the back window, so I'm having another go at it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183597&d=1682538246

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183596&d=1682538246

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183598&d=1682538262

[John4337]

I think I’m sneaking up on it…the real fiberglass guys are probably in therapy by now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183640&d=1682639521

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183638&d=1682639521

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=183639&d=1682639521

[John4337]

Small steps today, worked on filling the gap but it’s very cool here today and resin is taking a bit to set, so I worked on the catches for the front. I found a 6-32 tap fit the existing holes in the sidebars, so I gently tapped them, shortened some SS pan heads and mounted the hooks. At least its progress.

On a side note, how do you rotate the images? - Corrected. Thanks Craig

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184023&d=1683208865

[CraigS]

The couple of times that has happened to me I deleted the pic from the thread, went back to my pic folder, rotated it there, and then posted it again.

[John4337]

Thought it was time for an update. I finally figured out why it looked a bit off from the back. The window opening wasn’t parallel to the bottom of the top, so a bit of glass work and cutting got it pretty close. I alost worked on the lower edge under the window and got the radius looking better Also had to make an adjustment to the lower flange on the PS, but it’s all progress.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184119&d=1683412946

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184118&d=1683412946

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184117&d=1683412946

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184116&d=1683412946

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184115&d=1683412946

[John4337]

More progress today. My machinist buddy delivered the pieces that will attach the top to the car using my existing Rod Top anchor points just behind the doors. All that’s left is to radius and polish them. I’ll forgo mounting them to the top until after I settle on the gasket choice. The top had a press on one that attached to the lip at the base of the top, but it’s pretty thick rubber and all my butchery of the top has left the lip inconsistent. I’m leaning toward some kind of bulb seal glued to the lip. Hardtop guys please chime in with any thoughts.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184160&d=1683502482

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184159&d=1683502482

I then started on the removal of the monster hump.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184158&d=1683502482

It wanted to sag a bit in the middle, so I screwed a section of angle to keep it in place.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184162&d=1683502572

I thought using the cut out prices to fill in, but I’ve abandoned that and will just glass it in. I screwed some wire over the opening to copy the curve, hope this works, we’ll see.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184165&d=1683502572

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184163&d=1683502572

[Joel Hauser]

Thanks for posting this thread. I can't wait to see the final project - but don't rush it on my account!!
I'm curious about one thing. How difficult is it to get in and out of a roadster with the top on? I'm 6 ft tall, and wear size 12 shoes. It's hard enough getting in without a roof. Will the roof make it almost impossible?

[John4337]

Thanks for posting this thread. I can't wait to see the final project - but don't rush it on my account!!
I'm curious about one thing. How difficult is it to get in and out of a roadster with the top on? I'm 6 ft tall, and wear size 12 shoes. It's hard enough getting in without a roof. Will the roof make it almost impossible?

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All kidding aside, it’s not too bad, just a bit snug. I put my right leg in, sit down, lean to the center of the car and then the left leg. I’m about 5’11 and 200 lbs. Boat shoes or similar are required.

[frd2]

I'm 5'11" and a removable steering wheel is a (almost) must have.

Probably the "width" dimension is as important as the "height"

with or without the top on, my bigger struggle is pulling my left foot back far enough to clear the door opening.

Greg

[Namrups]

Thanks for posting this thread. I can't wait to see the final project - but don't rush it on my account!!
I'm curious about one thing. How difficult is it to get in and out of a roadster with the top on? I'm 6 ft tall, and wear size 12 shoes. It's hard enough getting in without a roof. Will the roof make it almost impossible?

Hi Joel. It looks like entry/exit of the roadster with the top is similar to the coupe. Stop by and try the coupe and it might give you an idea of what the roadster is like.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Originally Posted by Joel Hauser
Thanks for posting this thread. I can't wait to see the final project - but don't rush it on my account!!
I'm curious about one thing. How difficult is it to get in and out of a roadster with the top on?

I did Greg's (frd2) car with the APE top which seems to have a similar window opening as John's top. I'm 5'9 and about 160ish so not an especially big buy. My usual M.O. on topless roadsters is to step in put my butt against the back of the seat and slide down. Of course that doesn't work with a top! With Greg's I found myself putting my right leg in while scrunching down a bit to clear my head and then swinging my butt into the seat. Once in I pulled in my left leg. As Greg mentioned his wheel is removable but I don't think I ever took it off. Really not bad at all, at least for a guy my size. I can tell you that it's a whole lot easier than getting into or out of a Coupe!!!

Jeff

[John4337]

I can tell you that it's a whole lot easier than getting into or out of a Coupe!!!

Jeff

I agree, had thoughts of building a coupe until I tried to get in one, and it was the new one. I did get in, wasn’t sure I was getting out though.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I agree, had thoughts of building a coupe until I tried to get in one, and it was the new one. I did get in, wasn’t sure I was getting out though.

Yep. After building the one for SEMA and then doing another for a customer the entry/egress along with the lack of visibility pretty much turned me off on any thoughts of owning one.

Jeff

[Joel Hauser]

Thanks John and everyone else for your replies. I have always liked the look of a cobra or MGA with a "bubble top", and expect yours will look great. One of these days I'm going to build my own fiberglass top, I just need to find the time. Now I'm thinking that I might need to design it like a T top? I'm not that flexible anymore, and these size 12 EEE feet seem to get caught on anything within a foot and ahalf. I actually built a top out of wood a few years ago. My goal was to build one that had the look of an Old Town wood canoe. Unfortunately, I grossly failed in meeting my goal. It is an embarassment; ugly and weighs a ton. I haven't put it on the car since I finished. I cringe every time I walk past it in the basement.

[DW66]

I use the same method as John and Jeff and getting in and out isn't that bad. I use my windows alot and that adds a little more challenge. In my opinion its worth the challenge to extend the driving season living in New England. I love my soft top.

[John4337]

Thanks for all the kind remarks. I'm having fun with this, despite not really knowing what I'm doing. I was happy to find that this top pretty closely resembles the Berry Plasti-Glass tops from the original days. Here's a photo of Hank Williams' 289 car with the top. Apparently, they're pretty rare.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184205&d=1683563115


https://youtu.be/HhJgFvJaNsE

[John4337]

Thanks John and everyone else for your replies. I have always liked the look of a cobra or MGA with a "bubble top", and expect yours will look great. One of these days I'm going to build my own fiberglass top, I just need to find the time. Now I'm thinking that I might need to design it like a T top? I'm not that flexible anymore, and these size 12 EEE feet seem to get caught on anything within a foot and ahalf. I actually built a top out of wood a few years ago. My goal was to build one that had the look of an Old Town wood canoe. Unfortunately, I grossly failed in meeting my goal. It is an embarassment; ugly and weighs a ton. I haven't put it on the car since I finished. I cringe every time I walk past it in the basement.

I applaud your effort, I’d have never thought of wood, but I can see weight being an issue. I know Tangent was working on a t top before they went out, don’t know that any were ever made and all the images seem to have disappeared. There’s also one for Gardner-Douglas cars in the UK, may be an inspiration for you.

https://youtu.be/XYeWvfyPIMo

Best of luck

[John4337]

The oversized Gurney bump is history. Don’t think it came out too bad.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184308&d=1683674489

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[Cutter 54]

John you would make a good plastic surgeon! Nice work. You are inspiring to us.
And the video of Hank was great.

On a different note: I hope DW66 is reading this, since I sent him a personal message/email about his car. Please respond!?
Thanks in advance.

[John4337]

Started in on filler work where the mountain used to be. Getting better, at least you can get an idea of the profile now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184353&d=1683753616

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[CraigS]

The top is looking great. To make in/out a little easier on mine I modded the aluminum seat so I had a bit of flat to initially place my butt on while getting my legas in.
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I welded on a 2 in wide piece to the top edge of the seat. For anyone w/ a standard seat one could build a small box from 1/4in hardboard and a gluegun. Make it as a filler for between the door opening and the seat. Cover it w/ black carpet and no one will notice it.

[John4337]

The top is looking great. To make in/out a little easier on mine I modded the aluminum seat so I had a bit of flat to initially place my butt on while getting my legas in.
184377
I welded on a 2 in wide piece to the top edge of the seat. For anyone w/ a standard seat one could build a small box from 1/4in hardboard and a gluegun. Make it as a filler for between the door opening and the seat. Cover it w/ black carpet and no one will notice it.

Cool idea, thanks!

[frd2]

Since the regular seats don't have much of a vertical side to them, I never even noticed it or the gap. Right leg, then butt first backwards, then the tough part for me is left leg last.

[MARIAH]

Joel,
5'11", size 11.5 here.
Shoes are a big issue. Rubber does not slide over anything. So you are always trying to get those big things in-out without touching moldings, etc.
Been doing it everyday for 15 years though.

Getting in is OK. Hold yourself up with right hand on tunnel until everything else gets in under steering wheel, etc.
Getting out is the opposite. And not a pretty picture of broad butted old men.
Sitting down to swivel and enter and swiveling in the seat to get out and to step over the exhaust, just never works for me. Nothing for leverage with your head tucked down!

But it keeps the sun off and most of the rain.
As with all things, personal choice.
Just not many "style points" getting in and out.

[John4337]

No big progress today, just filler and sanding, man you body guys have my respect, I couldn’t imagine doing this on a whole car. Trying to get this roof panel looking right is driving me nuts. Back at it tomorrow.

[John4337]

Ok, Looking for some advice from the bodywork gurus out there. I've laid a about 3 thin coats of stranded body filler over and around the gigantic hole that I filled in the top. Then a layer of regular filler on that, which I haven't sanded yet and this is where I'm at.

This is looking from the front.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184466&d=1684006134

And this from the side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184463&d=1684006134

Looking for advice on how to handle that dip in the side profile? Is it too much to fill? Lay more glass?

Thanks in advance.

John

[cob427sc]

As I've been following your progress, my first thought when you removed the bubble is that this will be the most difficult part to make it look correct. Most of us would just add more bondo and keep sanding till it looks even and correct. Hopefully someone with more expertise than me will have the correct solution.

[John4337]

Well, thought I'd let you know I'm still at it. Here is where I'm at after a lot of work and a couple of setbacks. Cob427 was correct, this is proving to be more challenging than I expected. Based on the fiberglass archaeology I did, it seems the top had a more flat profile in the middle, but it's hard to really know, but that seems to be how it's working out.

Here it is from the front.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184846&d=1684878127

And from the side.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184848&d=1684878183

Back to the filling and sanding.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Good job on getting the shape established John!

Jeff

[John4337]

Good job on getting the shape established John!

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, its been a trial. Apparently when whoever put that bump in, they cut farther back than I did and left it pretty thin. I ended up sanding thru in a couple of spots trying to get the shape. But at least it appears there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[Blitzboy54]

Thanks John and everyone else for your replies. I have always liked the look of a cobra or MGA with a "bubble top", and expect yours will look great. One of these days I'm going to build my own fiberglass top, I just need to find the time. Now I'm thinking that I might need to design it like a T top? I'm not that flexible anymore, and these size 12 EEE feet seem to get caught on anything within a foot and ahalf. I actually built a top out of wood a few years ago. My goal was to build one that had the look of an Old Town wood canoe. Unfortunately, I grossly failed in meeting my goal. It is an embarassment; ugly and weighs a ton. I haven't put it on the car since I finished. I cringe every time I walk past it in the basement.

Joel, as someone on this board that is both impartial and has seen your wood top in person I have to say I think you undersell the achievement. First it’s a prototype, it will inherently have issues. The weight is a real thing for sure. Outside of that I think it’s cool as hell. Honesty I really like it. You should maybe take another look at it. I think it’s a lot better looking than you give it credit for.

Just my 2 cents.

[John4337]

I think this is a close as it gets. Its not totally symmetrical, but I don't think it was when I started, but I've filled and blocked it down to 80 grit. How's it look?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184941&d=1685120990

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184940&d=1685120990

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184938&d=1685120990

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184939&d=1685120990

[Jeff Kleiner]

Looking good John! Lay 3 coats of high build polyester on it (Slick Sand is my choice) then start blocking with 150 and it will tell the tale.

:cool:

Jeff

[cob427sc]

It looks great at this point! I'm impressed with how the top came out after removing the bubble. Paint will tell the real tale!

[John4337]

I'm in a holding pattern awaiting arrival of the primer and new gaskets, so I moved on the the relocation of the wind wings. I plan on building side curtains so the clamp mounts needed to go. A buddy of mine had some mounting hardware so I went at it. Drilling the sidebar is nerve wracking, because, unlike fiberglass, there are no do overs. I got the top mounting block where I needed it and used the full wing assembly to locate the bottom block.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185294&d=1685734676

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185291&d=1685734676

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185292&d=1685734676

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185295&d=1685735264

[John4337]

Well, at least its all one color now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185517&d=1686248693

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185516&d=1686248693

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185515&d=1686248693

[EZ$]

John, I've been following your progress on this, and I've got to say that knowing you were going to remove the bubble I didn't think you would ever get it looking this good. Great job!

[Jeff Kleiner]

There you go John! How much did you end up using for 3 coats?

Jeff

[John4337]

Thanks Jeff. I ended up with 4 coats, I botched the first coat, didn't get it mixed up as well as I should have so it went on thin. I used the last of the 2nd quart to put an extra coat on. This stuff is rough to use, you body guys have my respect for sure. I'm sure I'll be sanding a good bit of it off.

[John4337]

John, I've been following your progress on this, and I've got to say that knowing you were going to remove the bubble I didn't think you would ever get it looking this good. Great job!

Many thanks, there were times when I wasn’t sure if I’d get there, but I think there’s light at the end of the tunnel.

[John4337]

I've sanded and filled some small defects down to 180. The new gaskets arrived, so I thought I'd see how it would work out. Looks like I'll have to do some glass work around the mounts behind the doors. Thoughts?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185560&d=1686339959

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185559&d=1686339959

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185558&d=1686339959

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185557&d=1686339959

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185556&d=1686339959

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185561&d=1686339995

[Joel Hauser]

It looks great. You did an amazing job matching the curves and contours of the body.

[cc2Arider]

Agreed...this is very nicely done :)

Craig C

[CraigS]

Joel, it will be tough. I am 5'9" 190# and my APE top made it right on my limit for a graceful in/out. Of course being 70+ has reduced my bendability too. If you know anyone w/ a coupe, I found their access to be very similar to a roadster w/ hard top.

[John4337]

Well, I think this is the final shape. I've tweaked the PS corner a bit and repaired the cuts and holes where the old mounts were, just need to touch up the primer.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185902&d=1686944502

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185903&d=1686944502

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185904&d=1686944502

Looking forward, I need to decide on a finish. Im debating a color match, such as this...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185579&d=1686356061

or a two-tone look, perhaps an old English white, something like this....

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185578&d=1686355945

Bring on the discussion, mean while I'll start on mounting brackets for the windscreen.

[EZ$]

John, I like the idea of a color matching finish. I think it will give it a more classic look.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Matching.

Jeff

[John4337]

I started on the side bar clips. When I got it, everything was put together with pop rivets. I’ll be using stainless steel fasteners.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186092&d=1687302383

I JB welded a thicker piece of aluminum to give the clip a bit more support
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186094&d=1687304913

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186099&d=1687305045

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186098&d=1687305045

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186096&d=1687305045

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186100&d=1687305120

Of course I’ll clean them up for final assembly and use nyloc nuts

[John4337]

Cleaned up the inside and threw on a coat of primer.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186330&d=1687741338

I’m planning on a vinyl headliner with foam backing, something like this.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186332&d=1687741658

A little closer.

[Cutter 54]

Well, I think this is the final shape. I've tweaked the PS corner a bit and repaired the cuts and holes where the old mounts were, just need to touch up the primer.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185902&d=1686944502

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185903&d=1686944502

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185904&d=1686944502

Looking forward, I need to decide on a finish. Im debating a color match, such as this...

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185579&d=1686356061

or a two-tone look, perhaps an old English white, something like this....

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185578&d=1686355945

Bring on the discussion, mean while I'll start on mounting brackets for the windscreen.

Another 2 cents: color match. Nice job.

[CraigS]

I like the match. Also, although I don't have a recommendation for you, I'd look for some kind of spray on product for the inside. I did a headliner replacement in an old car once and it was the worst ever. Even w/ a stretchy material getting it to fit all the compound curves and stay attached for more than a few months was impossible for me.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Adding to Craig's comment. I've sprayed Upol Raptor on the inside of Coupe roofs and also inside of the APE hardtop that I did. It leaves a nice texture, is heavy and thick enough to make the single layer of glass feel more solid and adds a certain amount of sound dampening. It can be left black or painted to match or contrast. Here is one coat on the underside of a body; additional coats will soften the texture:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186361&d=1687800204

Just some food for thought and another option.

Jeff

186361

[John4337]

I misted it with some black as a guide coat and blocked it down. I guess it could have been worse.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186547&d=1688054136


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186546&d=1688054136

[John4337]

Second guide coat blocked. Much better.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186666&d=1688252410

[John4337]

Well, here it is with the 2k urethane on and wet sanded with 600. Actually wet sanded twice after I found a small defect that I had to address. Starting to look like something. Big thank you to Jeff Kleiner for all the side bar tech support.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186717&d=1688356179

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186933&d=1688675816

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186932&d=1688675816

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186931&d=1688675816

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186930&d=1688675816

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186929&d=1688675816

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186934&d=1688675871

[John4337]

Here is it is on the car. Hopefully the next time you see it, it will have color on it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186996&d=1688853077

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186995&d=1688853077

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186994&d=1688853077

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186993&d=1688853077

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186999&d=1688853149

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186998&d=1688853149

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186997&d=1688853149

[danmas]

That looks amazing!

[John4337]

Well, after a lot of thought, I decided to farm out the paint. Mike at Spotlight Customs knocked it out of the park. He did generously give me an A+ on the prep work.

The last photo shows the test panel from a bit over 12 years ago when I build the car.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187233&d=1689384732

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187232&d=1689384732

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187231&d=1689384732

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187230&d=1689384732

[Geoff H]

Well done - turned out great!

[Jeff Kleiner]

Turned out great John! Good job :)

Jeff

[John4337]

Turned out great John! Good job :)

Jeff

Thanks Jeff, I can’t thank you enough for all your help.

[CraigS]

John we need a really nice pic of the car staged somewhere w/ the top on. Please. BTW, tell us a bit about that 69 Camaro too.

[John4337]

John we need a really nice pic of the car staged somewhere w/ the top on. Please. BTW, tell us a bit about that 69 Camaro too.

Will do, working on finishing the inside and reinstalling the windows.

The Camero was at Spotlight Customs, Mike does really great work. In addition to the Camero, he had a Mk4 roadster, FFR Daytona Coupe and was just finishing up some work on a Viper.

[nucjd19]

Well, after a lot of thought, I decided to farm out the paint. Mike at Spotlight Customs knocked it out of the park. He did generously give me an A+ on the prep work.

The last photo shows the test panel from a bit over 12 years ago when I build the car.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187233&d=1689384732

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187232&d=1689384732

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187231&d=1689384732

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=187230&d=1689384732

Mike did my Roadster. Dude has an amazing skill set. It looks FANTASTIC!

[Cutter 54]

You are the Man. What a superb job you did. An incentive to us non-pros to forge ahead on challenging projects. You prove how patience, adherence to good technique and using the correct tools and material can lead to excellent results. Glad you stuck to the same body color, which looks OEM. You should be very proud.

[John4337]

Well, guess its time for another update, I finally decided I wanted to go for a more finished look inside the top, to I dove into a headliner.

Here’s the starting point. I primed the inside and scuffed with 150 grit to (hopefully) give the adhesive something to grab onto.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188111&d=1690837882

Material - I ordered 3 yards of this, it’s perforated, textured vinyl with 1/8 inch foam backing, intended to hide my uneven fiberglass work.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188110&d=1690837882

And in it goes.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188109&d=1690837882

First layout, I eventually pulled some of this, there were just too many curves in different directions. I ended up using two large pieces.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188108&d=1690837882

The sharp curve at the windscreen was too much, so it became a separate small piece with a bead made with rope glued in and shaped to the curves I needed.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188107&d=1690837882

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188116&d=1690838552

To be continued…….

[John4337]

Continued from previous post.


Here you can see where I went to the two larger pieces

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188115&d=1690838396

Next the windows went back in. They did not go in as easily as they came out.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188114&d=1690838396

I apparently changed the shape of the back window enough to be a problem, so I had to make a pattern and trim the window some.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188113&d=1690838396

Once that was back in, I tucked the headliner behind the window gaskets, make some piping to cover the seams and reinstalled the weatherstripping and ended up with this.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188120&d=1690838659

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188119&d=1690838659

[Geoff H]

Wow! That looks awesome! When does it go on the car?

[John4337]

Wow! That looks awesome! When does it go on the car?

Hopefully very soon. Need to clean up and attach the mounting hardware.

[Joel Hauser]

I agree; it looks great. I wonder if the foam backing will cut down on noise?

[John4337]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188211&d=1691007683

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188203&d=1691007536

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188204&d=1691007536

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188206&d=1691007536

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188210&d=1691007683

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188209&d=1691007683

[ydousurf]

Outstanding John! I've been following along and you've done an awesome job getting that modded. Oh, and I dig the color, the clean look and those seats too! Excellent work!

Doug

[DW66]

Great job John. Looks awesome.

Dave

[GoDadGo]

You Totally Nailed It!

[CraigS]

That liner looks fantastic. For the rear seam cover did you just fold and glue a long strip and then glue it to the main pieces?

[John4337]

That liner looks fantastic. For the rear seam cover did you just fold and glue a long strip and then glue it to the main pieces?

I cut a strip of material about 3 inches wide, stripped the foam from a one inch wide strip on the outside edges, leaving a one inch foam strip in the middle. folded the outside ones over, then glued it in. I left a flap at each end to tuck under the window gasket.

[cc2Arider]

What a nice outcome! Headliner looks great and I understand dark green metallic paint is difficult to color match :cool:

Craig C

[John4337]

All the mounting hardware is on, guess this is the final post on this. I pulled it out for some photos. Thanks for all the support, kind words and for following along.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188294&d=1691174244

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188295&d=1691174269

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188297&d=1691174318

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188298&d=1691174344

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188301&d=1691174408

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188300&d=1691174408

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188299&d=1691174408

[Rdone585]

Great job and awesome work.

[RJD]

Beautiful!

[chmhasy]

Nicely Done!

[Blitzboy54]

It’s perfect. All of it, the color, under tail exhaust and the top. Congratulations.

[Mbufford]

Congrats on the fantastic built. This is by far the best looking HT I’ve seen.

[chmhasy]

John, what color green and code is that. it is just Beautiful

[John4337]

John, what color green and code is that. it is just Beautiful

Thanks very much!

It's Jaguar Racing Green Metallic, the code is jag HGZ.

[chmhasy]

Thanks very much!

It's Jaguar Racing Green Metallic, the code is jag HGZ.

Thank you

[Joel Hauser]

I agree with Mbufford, yours is the best looking hard top I've seen. Now, How about a video tutorial of you getting in and out of it? ;)

[John4337]

I agree with Mbufford, yours is the best looking hard top I've seen. Now, How about a video tutorial of you getting in and out of it? ;)

I’ll see what I can arrange

[John4337]

I agree with Mbufford, yours is the best looking hard top I've seen. Now, How about a video tutorial of you getting in and out of it? ;)

I was putting the car away and realized my camera caught me getting in, so here you go.

https://youtu.be/yI1ve0vSB0Q?feature=shared

[WIS89]

John-

Beautiful job on your top! I have to confess when you started, I thought it might end up in the "never-ending project pile" with all of the other too-hard-to-do projects so many of us have.

I appreciate being able to follow along on this journey. I admire your problem-solving, creativity, and ability to see it through. Your results are fantastic!

Thank you for allowing us to join you on this journey and to see your amazing work! Congratulations and well done!

Regards,

Steve

[John4337]

John-

Beautiful job on your top! I have to confess when you started, I thought it might end up in the "never-ending project pile" with all of the other too-hard-to-do projects so many of us have.

I appreciate being able to follow along on this journey. I admire your problem-solving, creativity, and ability to see it through. Your results are fantastic!

Thank you for allowing us to join you on this journey and to see your amazing work! Congratulations and well done!

Regards,

Steve


Thanks Steve, I truly appreciate it. It all started with me hearing Jeremy Clarkson in my head saying “well, how hard can it be?”