Forte linkage too short (throttle to axle link)

[MB750]

Hello

Today I was mocking up the Forte linkage and noticed something odd. I observationally held the linkage up next to the carb since one was a few inches shorter than the other, to see which one went where. The longer one seemed best from the carb back to the firewall "axle" (or whatever it's called), so that's where I put it.

Then I mounted the axle on the firewall and started on the pedal linkage. No matter where I fixed the actuator arm, as well as where I put the throttle pedal arm (because I can rotate it on the little spline), there just doesn't seem to be enough length on it. I had the throttle arm adjusted forward so much that any rotation made the linkage move down rather than backwards to rotate the axle. That led me to believe I need the pedal arm pointing as vertical as possible. The problem is that now the linkage is about 3" too short. It doesn't matter where I put the actuator arm on the axle, the linkage won't even get close.

What gives?

[egchewy79]

Any pics? If anything, most of us need to trim the arms

182091

[MB750]

Here's pics, I'll do my best explaining because there's tons of stuff in the way.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182094&d=1679867042

The throttle pedal (the FFR version) is all the way out. The throttle arm (the part going out the top to drive the linkage) is going straight up. This puts maximum rearward motion on the linkage in order to rotate the axle.

When the pedal in that position, here's where the linkage ends:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182095&d=1679867042

[MB750]

The only thing I can think of doing aside from making the linkage longer is move the pedal pivot point rearward like the aftermarket throttles are.

[egchewy79]

Did you cut the aluminum shafts? Easiest solution is to buy a couple more aluminum shafts and tap them yourself. Remember that one side is left hand thread right?

[MB750]

No, not cut. That's how they came out of the packaging. And yes, I thought of that buying longer rod (and a reverse tap). Just kinda peeved because I could have saved almost $100 buying this in pieces from McMaster Carr and other places but instead went with the "kit" from a vendor.

Live and learn. Just makes me wonder how other people made it work. I can't be the first person to use the Forte linkage with an FFR throttle pedal.

I'm gonna send an email back to Forte. All the pics on their listing show its use with an aftermarket pedal, and both linkages look like the same length. It also came with no instructions.

[egchewy79]

Call Mike. He’ll set you straight

[Fman]

Another option, pick up RT adjustable pedal. It's a nice set up and will allow you to adjust it as needed. Might help with your problem. The RT pedal works really well with Forte's throttle linkage set up, I had zero issues with them together. If you want to stick with FFR pedal I am sure Mike will help you out.

http://www.norcal-cobras.com/store/russ_garage/mk3/mk3ftp.html

[mburger]

Ditto for RT pedal.
Mike is probably one of the easiest vendors/experts to get a hold of. His “kit” is assembled to bolt in and then you adjust.
Convenience and having Mike’s expertise a phone call away was worth the cost at least for me.
Give him a call and if you want to experiment, maybe move the rod further away from the firewall towards the engine with slightly longer standoffs?

[MB750]

Another option, pick up RT adjustable pedal. It's a nice set up and will allow you to adjust it as needed. Might help with your problem. The RT pedal works really well with Forte's throttle linkage set up, I had zero issues with them together. If you want to stick with FFR pedal I am sure Mike will help you out.

http://www.norcal-cobras.com/store/russ_garage/mk3/mk3ftp.html

There's the difference right there. That one mounts on the 3/4" rail about 3" up from the back wall. The FFR one mounts directly to the back wall:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182145&d=1679915074

From the pics on the Forte website, that's the pedal assembly this kit is designed to work with.

[MB750]

Ditto for RT pedal.
Mike is probably one of the easiest vendors/experts to get a hold of. His “kit” is assembled to bolt in and then you adjust.
Convenience and having Mike’s expertise a phone call away was worth the cost at least for me.
Give him a call and if you want to experiment, maybe move the rod further away from the firewall towards the engine with slightly longer standoffs?

I thought of making a standoff as well, but it'd be pretty long. That FFR pedal doesn't have the most robust design, nothing like that RT pedal, so any standoff that would make me happy would basically be a solid chunk of aluminum moving the pedal pivot back 3" from the back wall.

[CraigS]

I have never touched an FFR pedal but just by looking at the pics I doubt it will work as is. It looks like the part of the pedal above the pivot will be way too long. Compare it to the RT pedal in MB750's picture. The genius of the RT pedal is the sliding bracket. It allows you to get the pedal perfectly operational and at the same time perfectly comfortable. It takes some fiddling but seat position, pedal position relative to seat and to brake pedal, can all be combined until the car fits you like a glove.

[phileas_fogg]

It looks like you need a longer linkage for the pedal you are using. I'd give Forte a call & tell him your situation. He'll make things right.

Or spend some more $$$ and get the RT pedal; it's superb.


John

[rich grsc]

Just do yourself a favor, get the RT throttle pedal. Put the FFR pedal in the round file

[MB750]

No problem anymore, I've fixed the "glitch"

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182146&d=1679921574

Just kidding, this is a ghetto solution. I really should have used a stainless steel hose clamp. :p

[MB750]

In all seriousness, that RT pedal is really drawing me. After my ghetto-fab I could actuate the throttle, but the pedal itself feels really weird under my foot with the coarse sand paper and the spring return as you actuate it gives me vague feedback when I'm WFO.

I also definitely need to use a more rigid mounting on the firewall. Just the fender washers isn't enough.

[CaptB]

Call Mike. He’ll set you straight

Do this. He sent me a new one for free when I cut mine slightly short.

[RBachman]

Not a fan of the FFR accelerator pedal either and went with the RT adjustable pedal. My Forte' linkage fit up perfectly and everything adjusts and works much easier.

[MB750]

Do this. He sent me a new one for free when I cut mine slightly short.

I sent him an email with a pic of my issue. Better than trying to verbally explain it to him. If I don't hear back in a day or so I'll call.

[egchewy79]

In all seriousness, that RT pedal is really drawing me. After my ghetto-fab I could actuate the throttle, but the pedal itself feels really weird under my foot with the coarse sand paper and the spring return as you actuate it gives me vague feedback when I'm WFO.

I also definitely need to use a more rigid mounting on the firewall. Just the fender washers isn't enough.

mount the pedestals as low to the 2" square tube as possible. you can cut off some of the fender washer if needed to get it lower. I actually put my pedestals through the 2" tube and just bought longer bolts from a local hardware store. No flex whatsoever. you can also put some angled aluminum on top of the 2" frame for a more rigid feel.

[mburger]

I thought of making a standoff as well, but it'd be pretty long. That FFR pedal doesn't have the most robust design, nothing like that RT pedal, so any standoff that would make me happy would basically be a solid chunk of aluminum moving the pedal pivot back 3" from the back wall.

Ha! Yeah, I think the distance didn't look that big in the pic.
Even with no changes to mine, we had to shore up my dash quite a bit to remove any flex generated through the linkage.
This isn't an issue with the later Mks that I'm aware of. (Which means little)
EDIT: I think Rich summed it up rather nicely.

[Rdone585]

I agree the RT pedal is the best end game solution. However, a piece of threaded rod in the tube you have combined with a coupling nut could do the trick to lengthen the tube you have.

[MB750]

I agree the RT pedal is the best end game solution. However, a piece of threaded rod in the tube you have combined with a coupling nut could do the trick to lengthen the tube you have.

Wait, you don't like my hose clamp? ;)

[egchewy79]

don't know if you've tried it, but you can also unthread the pieces at the end of the rod and lock it in place w/ that jam nut. not sure if it'll get you the extra 3 in you need, but might be worth a shot. in your mock up, did you cut the other rod, or where did you get that shorter length of aluminum rod?

[rich grsc]

You have to realize we are all here for you and your build. (here to spend your money) ;)

[Alec]

I sent him an email with a pic of my issue. Better than trying to verbally explain it to him. If I don't hear back in a day or so I'll call.

Yeah you will definitely need to call. He rarely responds to emailed questions like that. But he ALWAYS answers his phone.

[MB750]

don't know if you've tried it, but you can also unthread the pieces at the end of the rod and lock it in place w/ that jam nut. not sure if it'll get you the extra 3 in you need, but might be worth a shot. in your mock up, did you cut the other rod, or where did you get that shorter length of aluminum rod?

Yea, I did that at first but it only bought me an inch. I could have unthreaded more but then there was only a few threads holding the rod ends in place.

That extra length is just some aluminum rod I had lying around in my scrap bin. Coincidentally it's the same diameter as the Forte tubing. I center drilled and tapped one end out for the rod end (with the right hand thread pitch), and then used the hose clamp to get a final length needed.

[MB750]

You have to realize we are all here for you and your build. (here to spend your money) ;)

I'm slowly learning this. Every time I run into an issue on my build I pause for a sec to think about how much it'll cost me when everyone suggests a fix. ;)

[egchewy79]

Yea, I did that at first but it only bought me an inch. I could have unthreaded more but then there was only a few threads holding the rod ends in place.

That extra length is just some aluminum rod I had lying around in my scrap bin. Coincidentally it's the same diameter as the Forte tubing. I center drilled and tapped one end out for the rod end (with the right hand thread pitch), and then used the hose clamp to get a final length needed.

tap the free ends on both pieces and thread in a longer matching screw with the head cut off. viola...problem solved. Or call Mike, I'm sure he can machine a longer piece for you.

[MB750]

tap the free ends on both pieces and thread in a longer matching screw with the head cut off. viola...problem solved. Or call Mike, I'm sure he can machine a longer piece for you.

How's that old phrase go: "Great minds think alike"

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182177&d=1679949930

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182178&d=1679949930

And now it feels much more solid:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182179&d=1679949930

I think we can close the books on this one. I still might buy that RT pedal though, it's a nice piece. Thanks for the help everyone.

[Chadillac]

At the Mott build school, one of the instructors demonstrated how the FFR pedal can get wedged against the side of the footbox. They HIGHLY recommended getting the RT pedal for that reason alone.

I have the RT pedal and the Forte linkage. Works great.

[Jeff Kleiner]

At the Mott build school, one of the instructors demonstrated how the FFR pedal can get wedged against the side of the footbox...



Actually no, it's not the side of the footbox---it can snap under the forward 3/4" square tube that runs side to side under the steering shaft. Making a pedal stop so that it can't travel that far or cutting 1/2" or so from the end of the upper arm will prevent it.

Jeff

[Chadillac]

Actually no, it's not the side of the footbox---it can snap under the forward 3/4" square tube that runs side to side under the steering shaft. Making a pedal stop so that it can't travel that far or cutting 1/2" or so from the end of the upper arm will prevent it.

Jeff

OK. Thanks for the clarification.

[nucjd19]

Seconding the RT pedal. FYI I highly recommend doing it now rather than later. It was a cuss fest and I have a lift to put the roadster at the optimum height to work on. I drove about 1000 miles on the OEM pedal and after the swap I was kicking myself for not installing it initially. IMO it is soooooo much nicer in quality, feel and modulation.

[MPTech]

Do yourself a favor, buy the RT pedal. HIGHLY recommended.