How many of you build Cobras for other people?

[MB750]

Ever since I started spending time on the FFR forum I've gotten some amazing feedback and suggestions from a few of you. From it I get the feeling like you've done this more than once. Even sometimes referencing a customer during a build. That leads me to believe you build them for people.

This makes me curious. Don't worry, I'm not gonna muscle in or anything, I just find it interesting. It must be lucrative enough to make a living out of it. If I do some quick ballpark math, kits cost anywhere from $25K to $50K depending on options and powertrain, and they sell on BAT for around $50K to $80K for the FFR examples. Let's say you can build 3 per year, that's around $75k annually.

For the fella who just likes wrenchin' all day, that would be the life.

[phils88gt]

Certainly people do it. If I were to guess there are already too many people doing it; But what do I know.

Phil

[i.e.427]

It's always interesting when folks that have never owned their own company or been self employed speculate how much $$$ you make or how little/hard you work. My mom and dad 83 believe that since I run my own company, that I can take time off whenever I like. It doesn't work that way. Customers dictate when we work and how hard. Curious, did you factor in operating expenses or any overhead (rent, utilities, employee labor or benefits) in that "profit"? My primary income comes from the construction business I run with Mrs. i.e.427. Could I/we get by on car building F5R as my only income? Not in CA. Some, in other parts of the country, do. I like the flexibility of doing 2 of the things I love, construction and building cars. However, during crunch time, they both become work.

As to Phil's comment/observation; there are only a handful Factory Five Preferred Builders across the Nation and in Canada. There may be others that are not recommended by Factory Five. I do believe we are the only active Preferred Builder here on the West Coast.

[Andrew Davis]

I.E., I enjoy your build vids. Really liked building my car, buying tools and helping local fellow builders when possible.
Trying to get the body work to the "someone paint it" stage. Thank you for the extra effort.

[michael everson]

I have built over 200 FFRs over the years. Have been doing it full time since 2014. If it weren't for my wife having a great job and health insurance, I couldn't do it.
Mike

[MB750]

It's always interesting when folks that have never owned their own company or been self employed speculate how much $$$ you make or how little/hard you work. My mom and dad 83 believe that since I run my own company, that I can take time off whenever I like. It doesn't work that way. Customers dictate when we work and how hard. Curious, did you factor in operating expenses or any overhead (rent, utilities, employee labor or benefits) in that "profit"? My primary income comes from the construction business I run with Mrs. i.e.427. Could I/we get by on car building F5R as my only income? Not in CA. Some, in other parts of the country, do. I like the flexibility of doing 2 of the things I love, construction and building cars. However, during crunch time, they both become work.

As to Phil's comment/observation; there are only a handful Factory Five Preferred Builders across the Nation and in Canada. There may be others that are not recommended by Factory Five. I do believe we are the only active Preferred Builder here on the West Coast.

I'm not passing judgement at all, I'm just curious about the practice. And yes, I'm familiar with how businesses are run. Sometimes it sucks.

Considering you live in CA it's clear that building FFR's could only be supplemental income. I used to live in San Diego, and that's the reason we left in 2018.

I also had no idea FFR has "Preferred Builders". That's pretty cool. Not everybody has the ability to build one of these vehicles but that shouldn't keep them from owning one.

[Tooth]

I find the builders on here to be some of the most helpful and responsive. Mike, Jeff, and I.E have all bailed me out on several occasions on here and FB. That being said, I have no idea how they make much profit building one of these. It's got to be a labor of love to a large extent. I think the op is severely underestimating the build cost. I see similar builds to mine on BAT for 80K, and at the end of the day I'll be 80K into my build.

[cob427sc]

I'm probably one of the "other" builders of FFR cars in that I do it as a hobby and have built 5 roadsters, a coupe, a GTM, a 33HR and finally an 818 along with some other cars mixed in over the years. Building cars has always been my salvation away from running my own company. I get to relieve my stress (I know, some of you get stressed building the cars!) and just enjoy wrenching. I started doing this in high school, basically financed my college education and have continued on ever since. In my 70's now and still haven't stopped. I build the cars, usually drive them for a year or 2 until I need another challenge and start another. I know several builders do the same thing. I can't say I ever made significant money on any of the builds but probably saved a fortune in psychiatry bills!

[Jeff Kleiner]

I do both body/paint/final assembly as well as full turnkey builds. After completing my own car 16 years ago I was approached by others to do cars for them. At that time I was much like Frank and my primary "day job" was designing and building apartments and condominiums while focusing on the cars in the evenings and weekends. I was never without one, and most times 2 in process. In 2012 the construction partnership dissolved and I continued to design and build both single and multifamily projects for clients while still doing the cars. In 2015 my wife declared "We need less house and you need a bigger shop." Only a fool would disagree with a woman who's thinking that so the house was sold, land was purchased and I took a year off from everything to build our house and then my shop. From that point on it's been almost all Factory Five work with some occasional multi-family design projects for prior clients. My situation isn't like most in that after the initial construction investment for the building my overhead is very low---the shop is on the same property as my home with nothing owed on any of it and I fly solo with no employees or related expenses. I just turned 66; "retirement" isn't in my vocabulary, not because I can’t but because I don’t have the desire. If I (or anyone) was trying to do this at 30-40 years old with more typical overhead, employees and expenses and no supplemental income in the household it would be a tough road. It's still a job...a job that I enjoy doing, but a job just the same. Lot's of days I miss going out to frame a house... :)

Jeff

[MB750]

I find the builders on here to be some of the most helpful and responsive. Mike, Jeff, and I.E have all bailed me out on several occasions on here and FB. That being said, I have no idea how they make much profit building one of these. It's got to be a labor of love to a large extent. I think the op is severely underestimating the build cost. I see similar builds to mine on BAT for 80K, and at the end of the day I'll be 80K into my build.

I completely agree with this! If it weren't for them I would be learning a lot "the hard way" on my build. Even if I occasionally go rogue with a unique design aspect specific to my build, their advise is still very appreciated and adds a lot of value to my experience.

[MB750]

...I build the cars, usually drive them for a year or 2 until I need another challenge and start another.


That's been my M.O. for years, except with motorcycles. I used to like buying some dead bike for cheap, fixing it up, using it for a while, then turfing it for cheap. I started having more fun fixing them then riding them. That's when I made the decision to buy an FFR Roadster. This way if I sell it I'll have a MUCH better chance of making a little money. Not much, as it's turning out, but more than all of my bike projects.

[Fman]

I might be in the minority but I would totally loose money if I tried to build and sell one of these cars. I am upside down in my car, if I sold it today I would not get back what I have in it. The market for Factory 5's also seems to be softening a little on BAT, not seeing them quite as high as last year. I am guessing most guys now are well north of 60k with a quality build just in parts alone.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I might be in the minority but I would totally loose money if I tried to build and sell one of these cars. I am upside down in my car, if I sold it today I would not get back what I have in it. The market for Factory 5's also seems to be softening a little on BAT, not seeing them quite as high as last year. I am guessing most guys now are well north of 60k with a quality build just in parts alone.

You want to build one and be on the plus side? Buy a Complete kit, add a reasonable engine like a Coyote or 306, build it well according to the recipe and put a traditional color on it. NO UPGRADES! You'll not recover the cost of things like a 427, Wilwoods, etc. Save those for the one you don't intend to sell.

Jeff

[egchewy79]

just curious, do most builders do a custom build and charge a flat rate or percentage of the cost for their build, build one with no customer in mind and then try to sell it, or give a customer a quote on a build and then try to budget around the quoted priced to leave a margin for profit?
I've worked w/ a contractor for a couple of projects on my house (kitchen reno, basement resto after flood damage) and he charged me a percentage over actual cost for his profit margin.

[Gizmosrcool]

You want to build one and be on the plus side? Buy a Complete kit, add a reasonable engine like a Coyote or 306, build it well according to the recipe and put a traditional color on it. NO UPGRADES! You'll not recover the cost of things like a 427, Wilwoods, etc. Save those for the one you don't intend to sell.

Jeff

I agree with Jeff. I recently received a well optioned kit. I stayed away from Wilwood. I am past mid $30k delivered. Plus add $1-2k in parts from others. A 427 from Mike or BPE is $23k-$24k. Plus throw in “oops” $ here and there and painting. You roll up to $70k$80k real easy. With NO labor or overhead. If folks will pay more then there is a market.

I do think many of the quality builders add labor $$ to build for a customer who wants it built a certain way and also help folks who need help getting getting over the finish line. if you can keep overhead and expenses very low then u got a business. And once you do a few then ur reputation can help.

It does seem hard to me. But then I am at the overwhelming stage having just received a kit. Good luck and thanks to all the businesses out there who support us. It is appreciated.

Tom