Fiberglass drawbacks

[shinn497]

While I understand the advantages of a tubeframe, and how it really makes sense for a kit car. I'm not entirely sold on the fiberglass. I realize that they save weight, but at what cost. First I wonder just how strong the body is, especially if it is not load bearing. Since a type 65 suffered a rollover and came out ok, that is not my concern. Still I am worry about long term cracks and chips. I hope that this car will be one I can show off.

Second, some people have said that fiberglass can warp over time, especially if it is the whole body. Is this true and is it issue? Furthermore how would the finish be after time, and how much effort is it to take car of the body?

[Silversmith]

The "Glass" is not load bearing! The frame carries all the load! Plus this is NOT 60's glass!! Please take time to read the proceedures of glass use via FFR products, compared to all other sport car fabracators. I think you will see the difference, & your mind put at ease!
Da Mauler

[Xusia]

FFR frames are very strong. There have been some crashes over the years and as far as I know, all the cars have held up very well. Furthermore, their frames are all fully self supporting and do not rely on the fiberglass for ANY structural integrity or support (unlike many of the kits from the 70s). Anything that bears any kind of load is made of metal. The body literally just sits on the chassis.

I can't speak to how fiberglass holds up over time, but I'm sure someone else will chime in.

Your comment got me curious though, what would you have the body made of? Metal? Something else?

[shinn497]

Actually, I really like the idea of a fiberglass body. But I had a conversation about car bodies with some associates and they said that fiberglass tends to warp and not hold up. Than again, perhaps this was base on their experience with 70s era 911s.

EDIT: I realized that the tube frame is strong and very stiff. I also understand that the fiberglass is non load bearing and just hangs there. I read that this can save a LOT of weight and adds to reliability. It makes me wonder why more mainstream manufacturers don't use similar tube frame + fiberglass design. I understand that the cars are hard to produce en masse, but what about exclusive exotics like lotus elise?? It seems like there must be some drawbacks and I would just like peace of mind...

[jimgood]

It's not really something you should worry about. FFR has been building fiberglass bodies for over 15 years. They hold up very well. Just check the For Sale adds and look at pics of some of the older cars.

I think the reason mainstream manufacturers don't do space frames is because it makes build automation difficult.

[Draco-REX]

The 818 will have several smaller panels (12-16) rather than one huge body. That will cut down on cracks and warping as even the slight twisting from even the stiffest chassis won't tweak a huge body form. Even then, I've seen quite a few FFR cars that see track and AutoX usage and they didn't have cracks in the paint.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I had a conversation about car bodies with some associates and they said that fiberglass tends to warp and not hold up. Than again, perhaps this was base on their experience with 70s era 911s...

Since 911s were/are not fiberglass it is entirely possible (I might even go so far as to say probable) that your associates don't know what they are talking about!

Jeff

[riptide motorsport]

You'll scratch or chiP the paint or get in and accident before you ever see issues with the finish because of the fiberglass medium used for the body.

[StatGSR]

It makes me wonder why more mainstream manufacturers don't use similar tube frame + fiberglass design. I understand that the cars are hard to produce en masse, but what about exclusive exotics like lotus elise?? It seems like there must be some drawbacks and I would just like peace of mind...
Because all mainstream cars need to be crash tested and have air bags. Tube chassis don't really have great crumple zones....

[skullandbones]

Fiberglass has been around a while. I have to go back to my boating experience but the facts translate to fiberglass cars, too. Good fiberglass was produces back in the 60' and forward. I was friends with a boat manufacurer "Snipes" in Chattanooga during that time. I still have a "2000 series" hull number and it is fair and defect free (kept outside). The point is that if you get a well done fibergass body, it should last once it has cured.

Fiberglass should be handlaid with the correct ratio of resin to cloth and all the necessary steps to create a strong body (you can see this in the finished product if know what to look for). The real technological leaps have been made in the chemistry and finish treatment on the good side of the glass (pre-painted panels). Pretty amazing stuff! This too was done in the boating industry but it was very expensive.
I think Jeff said what I was thinking. No disrespect meant to your associates but I think the info you got was watercooler talk. Most people done know much about this process first hand. You should check out the production process of FFR. I think you will be impressed. Good luck! WEK.

[shinn497]

Yeah... A lot of people in my circle seem to think I'm crazy when I tell them I'm how impressed I am with kit cars. But I think they have this I Idea that it will be poorly made with most of the engineering as an afterthought...

[edwardb]

Yeah... A lot of people in my circle seem to think I'm crazy when I tell them I'm how impressed I am with kit cars. But I think they have this I Idea that it will be poorly made with most of the engineering as an afterthought...

Completed my Roadster earlier this year. I work at a major automotive supplier. Have taken several people from my workplace for rides in my Roadster. They are amazed (as I am...) at how solid, shake-free, rattle-free, etc. it is. It is simply rock solid, and drives like it's planted to the ground. When I drive it to work, it draws a crowd in the parking lot, and most don't believe it's a "kit car." Times have changed, and I guess many don't realize it. BTW, have you ridden in an FFR? Maybe you would have a lot to say in response if you haven't.

Why isn't fiberglass used in production cars? Last I checked, it is. Corvettes for starters. Has airbags, had to pass crash tests, etc. But the reason it's not more widely used is pure economics. Sheet metal parts can be stamped cheaply by the millions where the high volume makes the tooling economical, welded together with robots, and be nearly flawless for finish and paint with little hand work. Fiberglass (carbon fiber, etc.) is used for lower runners and mainly more exotic and pricier models, and the only practical choice for the several thousand per year kit cars (FFR plus all others).

[skullandbones]

Your friends have been hearing about the other guys. It is a little like the construction industry. Here in AZ you can find one "good" contractor for about every ten. Unfortunately, the rep gets out to the public for the nine bad ones. In the kit car industry there is probably about the same good to bad ratio. There is one I just checked out (website), that produces fiberglass bodies. You can tell from the text and some of the videos that it is not done by professional car enthusiasts but rather to generate sales. Examples like: "we think a big block Chevy will fit for this model" or "you can install a hood latch but it is not really necessary". I am not making this up!

I would like to reiterate that FFR builds the bodies to the strength they need to be for the job they do. The body is a skin and nothing more. So it can be thinner and lighter. However, it is still pretty stiff, all things considered. I have picked the body up without the 2x4 support which is advised in the manual. It did not break but if it was going to fail that would be the most likely place for breakage at the rocker panel.

So I believe the bottom line is that there are still "crapper" kits out there but not an FFR. WEK.