Efi

[swwebb]

I'm at the end of my rope!! I don't want to hang myself!!

First, I have a roadster with a 347 engine. I need EFI because I travel back and forth between New Mexico (6500 ft to 10,400 ft elevation) and Florida (100 ft elevation). The engine came with the EZ-EFI 2.0 system that has been a REAL headache! (rich gsrc can insert some of his opinions here!). The engine has lost the ability to idle many many times over the last 5 years so much that I'm thinking of selling the damn car! Maybe 50 times or more. Tech support was little to no help. I optimistically hoped the problem was that I was only sampling one cylinder for the EFI. I recently went to 4-1-4 headers that I hoped would solve the issue, but no luck.

So, I'm thinking the issue might be the ECU. But, I don't want to replace it and have the same issue. Maybe upgrade to the Sportsman series?

The other option is getting the Holley Sniper system or something else and dumping the EZ EFI system.

Comments? Suggestions?

Thanks,
Steve

[GFX2043mtu]

The Holley system is great. I would defiantly ditch EZ-EFI for a one of the hood Holley systems.

[Papa]

Have you tried to find a tuner that really understands the system? There are so many variables to getting a complete EFI system to work well. The intake and fuel delivery system (injectors), the ECU, and all the ancillary parts like lines, filters, pump, sensors, etc. Most throttle body systems are pretty basic and generally provide a balance of functionality and performance in an inexpensive system. I started with a FAST XFI Street setup that simply didn't work well at all. I switched to a Holley Sniper, which was a lot better, but also offered limited tuning flexibility. I now have a multi-port intake and a Holley Terminator X. I was able to get the car running, but it wasn't until I had a pro tune it that it really shined over the previous systems.

[swwebb]

Have you tried to find a tuner that really understands the system? There are so many variables to getting a complete EFI system to work well. The intake and fuel delivery system (injectors), the ECU, and all the ancillary parts like lines, filters, pump, sensors, etc. Most throttle body systems are pretty basic and generally provide a balance of functionality and performance in an inexpensive system. I started with a FAST XFI Street setup that simply didn't work well at all. I switched to a Holley Sniper, which was a lot better, but also offered limited tuning flexibility. I now have a multi-port intake and a Holley Terminator X. I was able to get the car running, but it wasn't until I had a pro tune it that it really shined over the previous systems.

I did bring my car to a local speed shop to get my car tuned on his dyno. He didn't think there were any useful tunable parameters on the EZ EFI system, so he called someone he knew at FAST, who makes the system. That person confirmed his suspicions.

I just looked back at my notes, and I did return my ECU to FAST in 2018 and they said it was fine. So i'm not going to get a new ECU for my current system.

Steve

[SJDave]

Hi Steve, how's that trunk lid prop working?

This is a guess, but I had similar problems with a carbureted 347 until I installed a Wagner PCV valve. My 347 only generated 8 to 10 inches of vacuum at low rpm, and a standard PCV would always seem to open at exactly the wrong time. I installed the Wagner (about a 2-3 hour procedure to install and adjust both vacuum circuits with a Vacuum Guage the intake; and all my idle problems went away.

https://mewagner.com/?p=444


One suggestion before you spend the roughly $150 the Wagner will cost, is plug the PCV port on the carb or intake and see if you idle problem go away. If they don't, the Wagner won't fix it.

Your engine came from Levy as I remember, did you get the crappy RHS heads instead of the Edelbrock ones he shows on his spec sheet? The don't Helicoil the intake manifold threads, mine all stripped eventually and I had to Helicoil them all, especially if you torque to Ford specs. Could be they have relaxed and you have an intake manifold leak at the heads. Spray some Starting fluid carefully (outside in a ventilated area) around the intake to head interface and see if the idle speeds up. That may be your problem also. If you pull the intake, Helicoil all the threads in the heads and you will thank yourself later.

Good Luck!
Dave

[Ford & Jeep Fan]

I'm at the end of my rope!!
........... I need EFI because I travel back and forth between New Mexico (6500 ft to 10,400 ft elevation) and Florida (100 ft elevation). ........

The other option is getting the Holley Sniper system or something else and dumping the EZ EFI system.

Comments? Suggestions?

Thanks,
Steve

I have option you are not considering. how about going to a carb?? this is how cars ran (even 10Kft to 100ft) in the old days before EFI. Now If you are racing at the different elevations then buy 2 carbs, this is still probably cheaper than a sniper EFI system.

[Mike.Bray]

You are correct in that the EZ-EFI is limited. I was going to go with it but my friend that worked for FAST advised me to go with the Sporstman XFI which looks to be a very good system with lots of tuning capabilities. The advantage for you is the Sportsman will literally plug right in place of the EZ and it's not difficult to get a base tune in it with a laptop.

Personally I would not go with the Sniper. It's a low end low cost entry system that is not all that reliable and has limited tuning capability.

The Holley Terminator X is a very good system, especially if you want to upgrade to a multiport system to boost performance.

[rich grsc]

Mike beat me to it. Throw the EZ in the trash and upgrade to the sportsman. It uses the same wiring harness and is programable. I complained so much with FAST they swapped the commuter straight up, free exchange.

[Mike.Bray]

Another advantage of the Sportsman is the self-tuning feature can be turned off. That way if you're troubleshooting you're not fighting the system which might be what is happening to you now. A vacuum leak or bad MAP sensor for example will drive the self-tuning crazy and have you chasing your tail.

I would get a Sportsman ECU, plug it in, throw in a base tune, and go.

[swwebb]

Thanks for all the input. I'm probably going to complain to FAST a few more times and try to get a Sportsman ECU at a reduced price.

[MB750]

I have option you are not considering. how about going to a carb?? this is how cars ran (even 10Kft to 100ft) in the old days before EFI. Now If you are racing at the different elevations then buy 2 carbs, this is still probably cheaper than a sniper EFI system.

This.

I find it humorous so many people loathe carbs when you still hear stories like this with people having EFI issues.

People just assume carbs can't self-adjust from a few thousand feet of elevation change. News flash - yes they can. Air becomes less dense (not just less oxygen, but less overall air mass in total), therefore draws less fuel through the venturi as it passes through. AFR really doesn't change too drastically. Maybe a little, but your engine will still run.

[Mike.Bray]

This.

I find it humorous so many people loathe carbs when you still hear stories like this with people having EFI issues.

People just assume carbs can't self-adjust from a few thousand feet of elevation change. News flash - yes they can. Air becomes less dense (not just less oxygen, but less overall air mass in total), therefore draws less fuel through the venturi as it passes through. AFR really doesn't change too drastically. Maybe a little, but your engine will still run.

Count me as one that loathes carburetors! Hate them with a passion! I've had plenty: Rochester, Carter, Holley, Weber, Dellorto, and countless others. And I've had problems with all of them. I've got a leaf blower in my garage right now that won't start. Going to have to pull the carb and give it a cleaning. When I raced karts ultrasonic cleaning of my carburetors was a routine thing. Sometimes I would have to change jets 3 times in one day at the track.

Why do I hate them? First of all, the design is 150 years old. Even worse it's all mechanical. Mechanical things wear and lose consistency. Floats sticking, power valves sticking, chokes don't work, needles sticking, flooding, everything gunking up. I had a set of very expensive Webers on a street rod in the 90's. I could tune them and they would run great. For 2-3 days, maybe a week. Then have to tune them again. I swapped them out for a set of TWM throttle bodies and an Accel/DFI ECU and it ran like a stocker in that it started right up, idled, and no bogs or anything no matter what the conditions. Every time. Every day. The system just ran.

As an engineer I am truly amazed that carburetors do what they actually do. And tuning them is as much art as science. But I want data, parameters, and tables to work with. And high pressure injectors for superior fuel atomization. There's a reason there hasn't been a new car sold with a carburetor in 30 years.

Yep, put me in the 21st century EFI camp.

[Just 1 More]

If you change to anything, Definitely look at The Holley Stealth Terminator X

[MB750]

Count me as one that loathes carburetors! Hate them with a passion! I've had plenty: Rochester, Carter, Holley, Weber, Dellorto, and countless others. And I've had problems with all of them. I've got a leaf blower in my garage right now that won't start. Going to have to pull the carb and give it a cleaning. When I raced karts ultrasonic cleaning of my carburetors was a routine thing. Sometimes I would have to change jets 3 times in one day at the track.

Why do I hate them? First of all, the design is 150 years old. Even worse it's all mechanical. Mechanical things wear and lose consistency. Floats sticking, power valves sticking, chokes don't work, needles sticking, flooding, everything gunking up. I had a set of very expensive Webers on a street rod in the 90's. I could tune them and they would run great. For 2-3 days, maybe a week. Then have to tune them again. I swapped them out for a set of TWM throttle bodies and an Accel/DFI ECU and it ran like a stocker in that it started right up, idled, and no bogs or anything no matter what the conditions. Every time. Every day. The system just ran.

As an engineer I am truly amazed that carburetors do what they actually do. And tuning them is as much art as science. But I want data, parameters, and tables to work with. And high pressure injectors for superior fuel atomization. There's a reason there hasn't been a new car sold with a carburetor in 30 years.

Yep, put me in the 21st century EFI camp.

Yea, you got me there. I don't know anyone with a trimmer over 5 years old that isn't a bear to start. Back in WI, lawn equipment was a nightmare because it wasn't used 6-7 months per year. It doesn't help that gas has corn in it now. Since I moved to FL, I went electric for all my lawn equipment and it's been a Godsend.

[CraigS]

Since your problem seems related to the altitude change I would be looking for some substantiation that a system you consider can accommodate that. I have no specific knowledge of the systems mentioned but I could see that a less expensive system may be made that simply can't do it. Afterall, how many people go from sea level to 10,000ft? I'd bet not many. So they save some $ by having a range of altitude compensation less than you need. Best wishes on a solution.

[swwebb]

Since your problem seems related to the altitude change I would be looking for some substantiation that a system you consider can accommodate that. I have no specific knowledge of the systems mentioned but I could see that a less expensive system may be made that simply can't do it. Afterall, how many people go from sea level to 10,000ft? I'd bet not many. So they save some $ by having a range of altitude compensation less than you need. Best wishes on a solution.

Issue not really related to altitude. The problem occurs in both New Mexico and in Florida unfortunately!