I absolutely hate the heater

[mladen]

With a passion. There is not a single aspect of it that I like. And, unfortunately, in Virginia I have to have it to pass inspection. So, here are some of the problems I have:

1. Shorter pipes interfere with the blower unit. I had to trim off some of the plastic so it clears. On top of that, I don't have a huge amount of confidence in the compression fittings I put in. I fastened them as instructed and I was able to pull them off with a bit more force by hand. We'll see if they leak

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2. The cable that comes on the control knob is very short and puts the bypass valve in a very awkward and conspicuous location. The branches on the valve, and it's true for electric ones too, are also awkward for routing hoses

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3. The return into the water pump is positioned perfectly to be pointing directly at the alternator. I struggle to even get the hose onto it, let alone have it not be kinked.

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One potential solution, which I'm not super happy about is to put the bypass valve right in front of the firewall where the cable comes out. It leaves room for it to interfere with the operation of the throttle linkage. It also has to be threaded between the distributor and the intake manifold, and then sit in between the manifold and DS valve cover.

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I also have to route the return line there then, which again leaves me with the problem of the water pump. Are the two inlets on it the same? ie, can I move the 90 degree elbow from the thermostat housing to the lower one? That would give me a bit more clearance for the heater return.
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And, does it matter which side is which on the heater, eg which is the inlet and which return?

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[yahrt]

An electronic bypass valve is a nice way to tidy up some of the eyesores

[mladen]

I considered it, but it doesn't solve most of the problems. And adds a few more, like my dash already being laid out for the cable style control.

[Lickity-Split]

I'm not sure why Virginia requires a heater? All the usual safety features, sure. But a heater on a car I only want to drive on a nice day? I remember when you could order heater delete from the factory. Must be getting old :eek:

[mladen]

I'm not sure why Virginia requires a heater? All the usual safety features, sure. But a heater on a car I only want to drive on a nice day? I remember when you could order heater delete from the factory. Must be getting old :eek:

Windshield defroster is required if a car has a windshield.

[Ducky2009]

I added a manual valve in the middle of the firewall. The body will cover it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=1083&attachmentid=96861

Also routed the water lined straight up. Looks like you may have cut the lines and it's too late.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/album.php?albumid=1083&attachmentid=105414

[phileas_fogg]

A defroster may be "required" but I don't know ANYONE that's actually had their car checked...including my own.

Now to improving your situation...

I cut off the threaded fittings from the heater core and beaded the copper tubes using a beading tool (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000A8FTIU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1). Be sure to leave one tube longer than the other so you can fit the other hose!

Then I used 90* degree bend hoses from Napa (https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NBH10071) so that I could mount the cutoff parallel to the firewall. The cable pull easily supports a gradual 90* bend, though honestly, you could get rid of that entirely, because if it's cold enough for the heater you'll know at the beginning of the ride & you'll only want the heater ON or off.

A couple of 90* couplers (https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NBH9924) linked those short bended hose sections to some long-ish hoses run down the 3/4" tube supporting the hood. For the water pump return, I used a 90* bend and pointed the hose straight down, then a 90* coupler to the long-ish hose. For the feed, I was able to connect the long-ish hose to a brass fitting place just behind the thermostat housing.

DM with your email if you want pictures; I used to have everything on Flickr, but since they started charging $70/year for the service, I dropped them.


John

P.S. I'm in Fairfax Station, and should have my car back from paint in the next month or so. If you're in the area, please come visit!

[mladen]

Dang. That angled upward looks really good. I, unfortunately, don't have enough room as they hit the valve cover (I continue to regret putting in a firewall forward). But that looks like a really clean install.

Hmm. I already cut the pipes coming from the radiator, but there should be enough to throw a bead on there and use 90 degree hoses. I'll try that approach and see where it gets me. By the time I'm done this is going to be the most expensive heater ever put in a car :D And I'd definitely like to take you up on the offer John. I'm just north of Gainsville so close by. Would be fun to actually sit in one of these things. I'm still unsure if I'll even fit by the time it's done, and then the cost of the heater is going to be the least of my worries :D :D

[Tom Welch]

I considered it, but it doesn't solve most of the problems. And adds a few more, like my dash already being laid out for the cable style control.

I noticed you have your alternator mounted high. On my BPE 302, it's below the bracket and this provides a very clean install. Is there a chance you could swing your alternator under the main billet bracket similar to mine? (img-2994)

I included the rest of the routing as well. Sorry to hear you're having such a hard time with the heater. I personally love it. It allows me to be very comfortable driving even when it's in the high 30's or low 40's (on sunny days of course).

I noticed the picture of my alternator appears upside down. You'll need to rotate it 180 to view it correctly so that the heater hose is above the alternator.


Tom W.

[mladen]

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By the looks of it seems like I definitely could, though I'm afraid it's quite above my pay grade as far as my experience. Switching the two hoses on the pump, if that's doable, would be a much easier solution

[GFX2043mtu]

Pointers from a thermal automotive engineer that’s done this for a while. 1) bypass valves are not needed. The original old way was to just run water through the core all the time even with the A/C on. This made A/C systems less efficient so bypass or shutoff valves were used to decrease the delta T values making them more efficient. If it’s a PITA skip it, you may get a little bypass hot air but if your discharge vents in the cabin are able to be closed then it’s a moot point 2) for a heater core you can hook it up either way. 3) the water pump outlets can be interchanged. 4) if your lines are not tight they will come off under pressure and you will have a mess.

[mladen]

Pointers from a thermal automotive engineer that’s done this for a while. 1) bypass valves are not needed. The original old way was to just run water through the core all the time even with the A/C on. This made A/C systems less efficient so bypass or shutoff valves were used to decrease the delta T values making them more efficient. If it’s a PITA skip it, you may get a little bypass hot air but if your discharge vents in the cabin are able to be closed then it’s a moot point 2) for a heater core you can hook it up either way. 3) the water pump outlets can be interchanged. 4) if your lines are not tight they will come off under pressure and you will have a mess.

Thank you! That helps a lot. For the bypass, my understanding from other threads was that it was needed mainly to keep the circulation going and not affect the readings on the temp sensor.

For the connections, as suggested above, I’ll add a bead and attach 90 degree hoses directly to the copper pipes.

[GFX2043mtu]

The bypass in the thermostat housing is to keep coolant flowing through the block and heads when cold. The thermostat restricts flow to regulate the temp when warm. Coolant comes in to the water pump from the lower hose, then gets pushed into the block with some flow going through the heads via the small head gasket holes. At the back of the block water flow through rather large holes and travels forward. At he front of the heads it travels through the manifold cross over and out the thermostat housing. The bypass allows some water to circumvent the thermostat. This is to keep some flow in the motor when it is closed so hot spots don’t develop. If you pull coolant from the water pump port and the heater core port (npt tapped hole in back of the thermostat housing on the intake) you will cause lower flow in this area which will cause a slightly lower temp reading until the motor is warm. Because of this some manifolds had dual tapped ports in the cross over where the sensor would be put towards the drivers side head. This enabled uninterrupted cool t flow and temp to be monitored. Some blocks have provision too for the sensor. So you have two options. One know when cold it reads cold a bit longer. On a carb car that is fine as coolant doest effect the fuel delivery and the oil regardless of carb or EFI should be to temp before the engine is taken over 3k any ways. The thing is oil takes way longer then the coolant to get to operating temp. You can also just move the sensor if it is an EFI motor.

Sorry for any typos I’m doing this on my phone.

[Norm B]

Here is a picture of my solution to the coolant flow past the temp sensor and heater core connection issue. I tried running the temp gauge sensor in the T with no provision to allow continuous coolant flow. The gauge hardly moved off cold unless I opened the heater valve a little. To solve this issue I made a bypass unit out of the an aluminum block. This is visible between the T and the supplied heater control valve. You don't need this because you have a bypass valve.
Could you route the hoses up the passenger side of the intake manifold and hide the valve on the firewall in the middle behind the engine?
I don't have the firewall forward kit but, I managed to create my own space issue with the heater core tubes by making a box to mount the heater more forward to allow for a glove box. The heater core tubes had to be shortened and I soldered on 1/2 inch brass elbows with a npt end to accept a barb fitting. The heater core tubes are very thin walled copper pipe and I doubt a compression fitting will hold.
To make your valve position work it may be necessary to find some preformed heater hoses with the right shape. Bend pieces of wire in the shapes you need and find an auto parts store that will allow you to look through their hose selection.

HTH

Norm

[mladen]

Yeah, that’s what I think I’ll do, place the valve center behind the air filter so it won’t be seen. Good idea on shaping a wire to use as a template.

[AROCK]

I live in Virginia and used an electric heater and blower that plugged into a cigarette port. No questions ever asked by inspector.

[magicmarto]

that is what I did, and relocated it in the center of the firewall.....
An electronic heater valve switch.