Austin' 818C Build

[Raven225]

Hello all
I recently picked up a previously completed 818C, but motor had blown so the guy was selling it as is with out a motor or trans. I realize now that I only took one photo while I was there to pick it up. It was quite the challenge to get it on the trailer, but here is a pic of it on before I brought it home. 179975

Here are a few more after getting it kinda cleaned up.
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Been spending alot of time going over it and learning more about it. I am excited to start this journey!

[Raven225]

Harness Question

I have determined that the ECU and harness is set up for an 06 STI motor Intake only AVCS. I purchased a new OEM 06 STI main engine wiring harness P/N: 24020AD650. When hooked up I have two open connections. One that I can not identify and I have reached out to Iwire in parallel to this post. and the other I think is supposed to be left open. Can anyone help me identify these? See below pictures and captions for a better understanding.

This is the unidentified open connection on the Bulk Head Harness. It is on the passenger side of the motor.
179979179980

This connector is on the main engine harness I do not know where it should go.
179981


Any help would be appreciated.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hi Raven, welcome to the forum.
My car has a 04/05 sti wiring.
The 4 pin could be part of the Electronic throttle or could be the rear O2 sensor.
I don't have an 8 pin in my harness.
If you get me some wire color and pin numbers i can figure it out.
Bob

here is a link to the 06 wiring diagrams. STI starts on page WI62

https://1drv.ms/b/s!AgduxxAs3q-xjhp-h4Sx9KRwwjKY?e=gBw9Wp

[Raven225]

Well Iwire got back to me and I was misinformed about which motor came out of it. This Iwire kit was wired for an 06 wrx non-STI. So I bought the wrong main engine harness. luckily I can return it and order the proper one. I believe the proper harness is P/N: 24020AD530.

[cob427sc]

I believe that connector is for the rear oxygen sensor.

[Raven225]

Progress Update

I sourced an abused ej255 out of a 2009 wrx off of Facebook market place back in December for $300. I broke it down and it was pretty messed up inside. For sure a bunch of metal went through it and really messed up the cams and cam journals.
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I took it to a local machine shop that was recommended by the Subaru community and over all I was extremely impressed by the shop owners knowledge and willingness to actually walk me through all the steps. Long story short after inspecting the block and heads he determined that the crank and heads were usable, but not suggested. the case halves them selves were within spec. I sourced another set of B25 heads off of FB market place. The exterior of the heads was very dirty, but once opened up the cams and cam journals were "Cherry" quoting Eric the owner of the machine shop. (I sent him pictures before I purchased the heads and he gave me the go ahead) The block ended up needing to have the bore increased to 100mm so .5mm over stock and the heads just needed to be cleaned and valve job.

A few months went by and finally my block and B25 heads were refreshed and ready to be assembled. The case halves are still a bit dirty on the inside so I am going to try and get out as much of the detritus out before assembling the short block.
181281
181282
I do not have any photos of the heads at the moment, but i will add some when I am at home again. Over the past weekend I started weighing the pistons, rods, piston rings, and wrist pins to start the balancing process. I went with Manley turbo tuff pistons, Manley H beam rods, and a new OEM nitrated crank shaft. All the pistons were very close together and I only needed to shave 0.4grams off of one. The rods were all very close in weight except for one that was 2 grams heavier than the others. That one took some creative and careful sanding/grinding to get it to the proper weight.
Yesterday I got the rods all wrapped up and torqued down on the crankshaft.
181283

I hope to get the case halves all cleaned up and short block assembled this weekend. fingers crossed....

BONUS: My wife surprised me with a turbo because awhile back she brought home a second dog and I jokingly said "you get a new dog I get a new Turbo". She is the freaking best.
Blouche Dom 1.5 XTR 10cm with stock inlet size and ceramic coated black.
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[Dave 53]

Sounds like she is the best. She could have just named the dog Turbo. I'd say an AWIC is worth a cat. When she wants kids... sequential gearbox.

[Raven225]

The Engine is Progressing Nicely

I had a productive weekend. I got the short block put together on friday night and on saturday I put the heads on. I wanted to go ahead and install the oil pump and water pump, but ran into an issue trying to get the crank shaft nut off. When I go to remove it the crank shaft just spins. I do not have the fly wheel installed nor do I have a large enough crescent wrench to grab the flat portion that the oil pump links up to. So I had to settle for putting the oil pick up, windage tray, and oil pan on. I went with the Killer B oil pan, Ultimate pickup, and windage tray. Install was easy and smooth.

181529181530181531

Ignore the numbers on the pistons as they do not correspond to cylinder numbers.

[Raven225]

Quick Update

It has been a roller coaster since I last posted. During the process of working out what I wanted to do with the AOS system I made a terrible discovery. I had mis-matched case halves.... The abused facebook motor was a bit more messed up than I thought and the shop i sent to have it decked and honed did not notice it either. The driver side case half was a EJ255 with semi closed decking and the passenger side was from a EJ253 open decking. The EJ253 is for the NA motors and does not have the breathe port to balance pressure with the heads. See below picture to see the difference in the cylinder reinforcement.
184295

I ended up scoring a good deal on brand new EJ257 case halves directly from Subaru. I am lucky to have friend at a dealership in my area. So after disassembling the old long block I cleaned everything up and waited for the new block to come back from the shop to be bored and honed out to match my oversized pistons. The shop did the machine work for free since they missed the issue with the previous block.

The reassembly was way quicker and easier. The motor is now ready to have the clutch installed and then hooked up to the transmission.
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I plan on getting the motor and trans in the car this weekend. Also during this time I ran down all of my wiring concerns and tested all of the gauges extras installed in the car. I am hoping once the motor is in it will be pretty smooth sailing.

I do have a question about the serpentine belt that Factory Five provides with the kit (crank to alternator only). What is the size as I bought this kit/car second hand I do not have one and I have not been able to find any information on the size.

[Bicyclops]

Mine is a 5PK688

Ed

[Raven225]

Thank you Bicyclops I was able to order one and it fit perfectly!

[Bicyclops]

Welcome.

Ed

[Raven225]

Big Update

The motor and trans are in! Actually getting it to fit into the engine bay was not bad thanks to suggestions I had seen from others on here, but what was horrible was getting the trans mount to line up with the holes on the frame. the passenger side trans mount bolt was 3mm too far forward and would not go into the hole in the frame. I was surprised by this because this trans came out of this car originally. In the end I had to loosen the mount on the trans and get the stud into the hole on the frame and then tighten everything down.
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I have hooked everything up to the engine and started running down CELs.
187400
187401

I have eight at the moment. (See the list below)

P2227 Baro. Pressure Senor Circuit Range Perf (Most frustrated by this one)
P0413 Air Pump Switching Valve "A" Circuit Open
P0416 Air Pump Switching Valve "B" Circuit Open
P0418 Air Pump Control "A" Circuit Open
P2431 Air Pump Air Flow/Pressure Sensor Circuit Range/Perf
P0102 MAF Sensor Circuit Low Input (I believe this is a calibration issue with my current tune because when i switch to the old tune on the car it reads temp. correctly and when using my new break in tune it reads either way too high like 160F or way too low like 70F when the ambient temp is 91F. (Ignition on not running)
P0183 Fuel Temp Sensor Circuit High Input (Physically do not have a fuel temp sensor at the moment)
P2021 TGV Position Sensor 2 (LH) Circuit (Low)

I am having a hard time running down the P2227 code. For background I have a complete Iwire Harness designed for a 06 wrx DBW and the engine harness is brand new from Subaru so I am doubtful there is a broken wire anywhere. Both my MAP and my Secondary Air Valve Barometric pressure sensor combi valve are used so there is a possibility that they are bad. I did buy a Chinese knock off "new" Barometric pressure sensor off ebay to test with and it did not fix the problem. So my next step is to get a different MAP sensor. I did do some testing on the MAP to see if I could get it to register a pressure. I set my Access Port to display "Boost Pressure" and then connected a hose to the nipple on the MAP sensor while it is plugged into the harness and put about 10PSI into the hose by connecting it to my air compressor. The Access Port displayed "Boost Pressure" never registered anything other than zero. Which leads me to believe that the MAP sensor might be bad.

I have the wiring diagrams with pin outs, but I am having a hard time finding information on what voltages I should be getting on each pin for the MAP sensor and the Barometric/secondary air combi valve pins. Does anyone have that kind of information on that? It would help me alot trying to narrow down what the problem could be.

Also if you have any suggestions for any of the other CELs please feel free to chim in on those too.

[Ajzride]

Barametric Pressure Sensor isn't super important, but there is some decent info here:

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2619882

[Raven225]

Barametric Pressure Sensor isn't super important, but there is some decent info here:

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2619882

Thank you, I found the pin out diagram at the end of the thread. I will let you know how it turns out after I get home and can tinker some.

[Raven225]

More Questions About MAP and Baro Sensors

So I did a fair amount of testing last night on both the Baro/combi valve and MAP sensor to run down my P2227 CEL. I have a few questions about voltages that I am measuring.

First situation: I am getting 4.99v from power supply pin (Pin 3), 0v from ground (Pin 2), and 4.92v from the pin that goes to the ECM/ECU (Pin 1) (this is measured from the connector with the MAP sensor unplugged)
-Ignition is on
-Car is not running

06 WRX Wiring diagram with MAP sensor
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Should I be getting a voltage from the pin that goes to the ECM/ECU?

Second situation is related to the first question as I am also getting 4.92v on the pin that goes to the ECU/ECM from the Baro pressure sensor pin #2 on the below diagram.
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Any help would be greatly appreciated.


EDIT
In addition to this testing I also plugged both sensors in and had my Access Port display Boost pressure and Baro pressure. Which read -0.00psi and 14.21psi respectively. When I applied pressure to the MAP sensor (~10psi) with my air compressor it did not register on the Access Port, same thing when I applied pressure to the Baro sensor. I applied 5psi to the baro since it has a much smaller range. Neither values showed changes on the Access Port. Which lead me to believe that both were bad. So I have ordered Chinese knock offs of both for testing purposes. I felt like at this stage two $30 parts that might work is a better option than shelling out roughly $600 from Subaru direct.

[Ajzride]

I do know that most of the sensors are 5V (because I smoked an ECU putting 12V on the wrong pin), so it seems your supply voltages are correct and okay. But both sensors showing 4.92V back to the ECU (almost maxed out) does confuse me. I wonder if those sensors are resistance and not voltage, so you are measuring the wrong thing. I will dig into that a little if I have time tonight.

[Raven225]

I do know that most of the sensors are 5V (because I smoked an ECU putting 12V on the wrong pin), so it seems your supply voltages are correct and okay. But both sensors showing 4.92V back to the ECU (almost maxed out) does confuse me. I wonder if those sensors are resistance and not voltage, so you are measuring the wrong thing. I will dig into that a little if I have time tonight.

Yes they are resistive sensors. They change the voltage coming out by increasing or decreasing resistance based on pressure, but I did not expect to get a reading out of the pins that go to the ecu with neither sensor plugged in. Also according to everything i read the V range the sensor should out put would be .5v to 4.5v. What I really need to do is be able to test the voltage on that same pin with the sensor plugged in. I so far have not been able to test that as I do not want to cut any of the brand new OEM harness. I am trying to come up with some way to rig up the sensor with a pig tail or something that would allow me to see the voltage modulate with pressure changes.

[Ajzride]

I misunderstood, I thought you had them plugged in. You can use a t-tap to splice into the wire and then when you remove it seal the jacket with some liquid rubber or electrical tape. You could also try sliding a really thin piece of wire into the socket before you plug it in so that you can get a meter on that pin while it’s active.


https://www.amazon.com/Wire-Connectors-Solderless-Stripping-Connection/dp/B07114RK67/ref=asc_df_B07114RK67?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80814222102121&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584413749721740&psc=1

[Raven225]

I misunderstood, I thought you had them plugged in. You can use a t-tap to splice into the wire and then when you remove it seal the jacket with some liquid rubber or electrical tape. You could also try sliding a really thin piece of wire into the socket before you plug it in so that you can get a meter on that pin while it’s active.


https://www.amazon.com/Wire-Connectors-Solderless-Stripping-Connection/dp/B07114RK67/ref=asc_df_B07114RK67?tag=bngsmtphsnus-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80814222102121&hvnetw=s&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584413749721740&psc=1

I have never seen those before. I will look into them. Thank you for the suggestion.

[Raven225]

Check Engine Light Update

My new MAP sensor came in and it fixed my P2227 Baro Pressure Sensor Code which is excellent! I also discovered that the Iwire harness is not wired to support the secondary air system so there is nothing I can do about those four codes. Which is going to cause me issues down the road with my registration and inspection, but it will not effect me starting and running the car initially. When I installed the new MAP sensor the P2227 code went away and new one popped up, P0244. It is an overboost code which is odd as I have not started the car yet. I am assuming that it is a calibration issue with my tune as I have a Cobb 3 port EBCS. I will be reaching out to my tuner (Who has been on vacation for over a month and will be back on 8-10-23) when he gets back and he can hopfully help me with the intake temp sensor reading incorrectly also.

Current CEL list
P0102 MAF Sensor Circuit Low Input
P0183 Fuel Temp Sensor Circuit High Input (Physically do not have a fuel temp sensor)
P0244 Over Boost (Popped up after I fixed my P2227 code)

I originally attributed P0102 MAF Sensor Circuit Low Input to the intake temp sensor reading wildly, but it is in fact not related. I am using the Iwire Speed density kit anyone else run into this error code with the Iwire kit?

Does anyone run their 818 with out the Fuel Temp Sensor? Any issues you all see with just leaving it as is?

[Ajzride]

I run mine without it no issues. For the secondary air codes, you an disable them with RomRaider as long as your ECU is not locked.

[Raven225]

Project Update: She runs!!!

I primed the motor with oil by removing the ignition fuse and spark plugs, filling the motor with oil and running the starter. The OEM oil pressure light went off within a few seconds of the first run of the starter. My aftermarket oil pressure gauge didnt indicate any pressure. So I was worried until I unhooked the oil supply line to the turbo and ran the starter and shot oil across the garage so the issue must be with the gauge. I had to get a new pressure sensor and that fixed the issue.

First Start went well. I honestly did not expect it to start right up the first time hence the dumb founded look on my face in the video.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Jxv0s9asWfc

I flipped the car around in the garage and filled her up with coolant to start bleeding the cooling system. Again the car started right up though it did run rough/rich. Ran the car for 10ish minutes and air bubbles had stopped coming up the funnel so decided it was time to blip the throttle and dislodge air bubbles. I blipped the throttle and the car reved up and then died. It would not start at all after that. Started looking over everything and could not find an obvious issue. on the tenth try or so she started and ran absolutely horribly. Super rich lots of black smoke and rough rough rough. What finally clued me into what was happening is my physical boost gauge was showing roughly 20mmhg of vacuum at idle, but my MAP sensor was reporting 9psi and then work its way back down to negative pressures. So I suspected the MAP sensor bad.

I went ahead and ordered a AEM 3.5 Bar MAP sensor and adapter. It took two weeks to get it because of some shipping issues (Forgot to put the sensor in the package with the rest of my order) and contacted my tuner (Delicious tuning) and had them rescale the MAP sensor from OEM to the 3.5Bar. Once installed all my issues went away. I'd say it looks pretty good up there.

190017

[Raven225]

With all of my MAP sensor issues gone I was comfortable to run it more and get the rest of the air out of the coolant system.

Yesterday I decided it was time to put her on the ground and take her for a spin.
Backing out: https://youtube.com/shorts/-hG3Zrsx3ew
Driving Away: https://youtube.com/shorts/BmCPorR4WdU

I absolutely hate the clutch and pedal box in this car........ I learned to drive in a manual car (VW Jetta TDI), but I had not driven a manual car in roughly 5 years. So I expected to kill it a few times and then figure it out.
First off the car came with the wilwood pedal box and a dual disc competition clutch.
Complaint #1:The clutch pedal and brake pedal are a solid 5 inches closer to the driver than the gas pedal.
#2: The engagement and/or disengagement of the clutch happens in the first inch or less of movement on the pedal, but the pedal will swing all the way to the floor.
#3: the dual disc clutch is brutally abrupt. I had read that this was the case, but I did not realize how abrupt vs a stock clutch.

So to say I struggled is an understatement. I knew I would kill it a few times, but what really frustrated me is I was unable to smoothly shift with out jerking while driving. Now I only drove around for 10 minutes so I know I will get better once I knock the rust off of my driving manual skills.
I have searched a little bit about how to adjust the wilwood pedals, but have not come across much regarding the clutch pedal. (mostly how to adjust brake bias) If anyone has any suggestions I am all ears as this is the one thing that I can change right now.

Over all I am absolutely stoked about the car and I am excited to drive it more just have more things to do :)

[Raven225]

Issues After First Drive

After the drive I went around the car to check for any leaks or issues. I came across the back end of my transmission leaking fluid. It looked like the rear seal was leaking slightly. Under further investigation I discovered that it was coming from a hole in the rear piece of the transmission. (See below picture circled in red) I never really noticed this hole before so I do not know if it was plugged up or open like that, but the transmission fluid definitely came from here. When I shine a flash light into the hole I can see into the transmission. After looking around on the forum today I do not notice this hole on any of the other modded 6 speeds.

190020

Have yall ever seen anything like that?

If I were to plug it up how would you suggest I go about that?

[lpmagruder]

Check pages 10-13 here; It looks like you're missing a plug:

https://www.factoryfiveparts.com/content/instructions/80855-sti-six-speed-conversion-rev-b.pdf

[Hobby Racer]

I have searched a little bit about how to adjust the wilwood pedals, but have not come across much regarding the clutch pedal. (mostly how to adjust brake bias) If anyone has any suggestions I am all ears as this is the one thing that I can change right now.


The wilwood pedals are nice once you get them adjusted. You will likely have to cut the plunger rods that actuate the master cylinders to lower the pedal heights enough to be comfortable. I had to cut around an inch off all three rods (front, rear brakes and clutch).



I do not notice this hole on any of the other modded 6 speeds.

Have yall ever seen anything like that?

If I were to plug it up how would you suggest I go about that?

That hole is normal on the 6spd conversion. FFR gives you a flat piece of aluminum that your supposed to "glue" in from the back side with gasket tack or something. I welded mine up, similar to the way you have welded up the larger center hole on yours. Here is a pic of mine after I first welded it. I have 3 holes instead of two because I cut my tail housing much shorter than FFR suggests.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120236&d=1578431913

[Raven225]

I appreciate yalls responses.

I identified early on that the pedals needed to be adjusted, but I told myself "get it on the road first and see how bad it is and then fix it later on" but now I think that it will greatly improve the feel of driving the car. So fixing it now is the new plan.

As for the Hole in the back of the transmission: I believe that that port/hole is not pressurized. Correct? What I mean by that is it is not fed directly by the oil pump, but rather what came out was either sloshed or flung out by the gears/shaft left on the end of the transmission.

I forgot to ask on my previous post. My Oil pressure was pretty high roughly 60-70psi at idle (coolant temp 180Fs) and the Oil pressure went over a 100psi when reving to 3000rpm. (Coolant temp roughly 190F) I am running heavier break in oil: Motul 10w40 so I expected the pressure to go down some later on when I switch to a lighter oil. I have a Oil temp sensor installed, but I have not hooked up the gauge yet. I'm thinking that the oil might not of fully warmed up as i am the larger Killerb oil pan and no OEM oil warmer/cooler. What kind of pressures do you all see?

[Hobby Racer]

I appreciate yalls responses.

As for the Hole in the back of the transmission: I believe that that port/hole is not pressurized. Correct? What I mean by that is it is not fed directly by the oil pump, but rather what came out was either sloshed or flung out by the gears/shaft left on the end of the transmission.


You are correct, that is not pressurized.

[Dave 53]

I would suggest that water temp is not a good segregate for oil temp when talking about oil pressure. Get that oil temp gauge working...

This thread is titled Gear Shifting Theory, but towards the end of it, it turned into a thread about oil pressure.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?46572-Gear-Shifting-Theory

[blomb11]

Issues After First Drive

190020

Have yall ever seen anything like that?

If I were to plug it up how would you suggest I go about that?

I had the same opening when I did the 6spd conversion and I plugged it with JB weld. I do not have any leaks.

[Raven225]

Follow Up to Oil Pressure Issues

Oil Setup Info:
-Killer B Aluminum Oil Pan
-Killer B Ultimate Pick up
-Killer B windage tray
-OEM 11mm Pump
-No OEM Oil cooler/warmer
-10w40 Motul Break in Oil
-OEM Oil Filter
-Oil Pressure Sensor is located up top back by the turbo
-Oil Temp Sensor is located at the bottom of the Oil Pan

I finished up the temporary wiring for my Oil Temp Gauge and ran the car again. I started the car and let it idle for ten minutes. The oil pressure gauge was indicting 90-100psi at start up with a rpm of 1300rpm. After the ten minutes of idling the oil temp was up to 140F and pressure was 50psi at 700rpm. I gently drove around the neighbor hood (4 miles of 20-30mph driving rpm never above ~3000) I was seeing oil temp creep up to about 160F and 100psi at 3000-3500 rpm and ~35psi at idle (~500rpm). I pulled into the parking lot of the park by my house to look everything over. When I stopped the Oil Temp moved up to 170F, but dropped back down to 160F as soon as I started driving again. I drove another 4 miles back to the house and the oil temp never got higher than 170F. Which is not operating temp.

Any ideas as to what the cause of low oil temp? I figured that idling for 10 minutes would be enough to get it up to temp, but maybe the oil temp sensor being in the bottom of the oil pan has something to do with it?

Another thought, does oil weight have a linear curve when it comes to pressure? for example I am running 10w40 when I switch to 5w30 oil will PSI be 25%-50% less? I am a little confused about the scale for oil weights.

[J R Jones]

Follow Up to Oil Pressure Issues

Oil Setup Info:
-Killer B Aluminum Oil Pan
-Killer B Ultimate Pick up
-Killer B windage tray
-OEM 11mm Pump
-No OEM Oil cooler/warmer
-10w40 Motul Break in Oil
-OEM Oil Filter
-Oil Pressure Sensor is located up top back by the turbo
-Oil Temp Sensor is located at the bottom of the Oil Pan

I finished up the temporary wiring for my Oil Temp Gauge and ran the car again. I started the car and let it idle for ten minutes. The oil pressure gauge was indicting 90-100psi at start up with a rpm of 1300rpm. After the ten minutes of idling the oil temp was up to 140F and pressure was 50psi at 700rpm. I gently drove around the neighbor hood (4 miles of 20-30mph driving rpm never above ~3000) I was seeing oil temp creep up to about 160F and 100psi at 3000-3500 rpm and ~35psi at idle (~500rpm). I pulled into the parking lot of the park by my house to look everything over. When I stopped the Oil Temp moved up to 170F, but dropped back down to 160F as soon as I started driving again. I drove another 4 miles back to the house and the oil temp never got higher than 170F. Which is not operating temp.

Any ideas as to what the cause of low oil temp? I figured that idling for 10 minutes would be enough to get it up to temp, but maybe the oil temp sensor being in the bottom of the oil pan has something to do with it?

Another thought, does oil weight have a linear curve when it comes to pressure? for example I am running 10w40 when I switch to 5w30 oil will PSI be 25%-50% less? I am a little confused about the scale for oil weights.

High RPM and power create the energy and flow to heat the oil. At idle you are making little power, energy or flow. Testing for your highest oil temperature requires high load and high RPM. 200F is a good temperature and 270F is an upper limit. 300F is bad. Oil pressure is high with cold oil because thick oil does not flow easily. At operating temperature and higher RPM the oil pressure is regulated and you see that on the gauge, although by positioning the pressure sensor away from the pump the reading is less accurate. 5W vs 10W is significant to distributing oil when cold and the cold pressure issue is discussed above. Hot 30W vs hot 40W will not be distinguished by your gauge.

[Raven225]

High RPM and power create the energy and flow to heat the oil. At idle you are making little power, energy or flow. Testing for your highest oil temperature requires high load and high RPM. 200F is a good temperature and 270F is an upper limit. 300F is bad. Oil pressure is high with cold oil because thick oil does not flow easily. At operating temperature and higher RPM the oil pressure is regulated and you see that on the gauge, although by positioning the pressure sensor away from the pump the reading is less accurate. 5W vs 10W is significant to distributing oil when cold and the cold pressure issue is discussed above. Hot 30W vs hot 40W will not be distinguished by your gauge.

What I am getting at is there an issue with my pressure relief valve or is this overly high pressure due to cold and heavier break in oil?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Just for reference Raven, This is a hot lap At NCM track. I'm running a dry sump system. A liquid/liquid oil cooler, 5w/40 Rotella oil. 240 WHP
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=190223&d=1695056850

[J R Jones]

Bob's set-up is exceedingly good and his numbers reflect it. I ran a liquid to liquid oil cooler on a 200hp (1300cc) rotary that tracked temperatures in a similar manner.
The restriction of cold oil is greater that the pressure regulator can compensate for.
Even at 3000RPM and part throttle you are making 100hp or less. Energy heats the oil and you are not making it. Your system may be fine, you are not stressing it enough to know for sure.
BTW given ground clearance I would not suggest a sensor on the bottom of the pan. If it is knocked off, you will have issues.

[Raven225]

Bob's set-up is exceedingly good and his numbers reflect it. I ran a liquid to liquid oil cooler on a 200hp (1300cc) rotary that tracked temperatures in a similar manner.
The restriction of cold oil is greater that the pressure regulator can compensate for.
Even at 3000RPM and part throttle you are making 100hp or less. Energy heats the oil and you are not making it. Your system may be fine, you are not stressing it enough to know for sure.
BTW given ground clearance I would not suggest a sensor on the bottom of the pan. If it is knocked off, you will have issues.

Okay, I will drive it a bit more spirited then. I was worried about blowing out my gaskets because every time i reved above 3000rpm the Oil Pressure gauge would pin out at 100psi. Watching the oil temp gauge stay low plays into this theory also. I will let yall know how it goes.

[J R Jones]

On a similar thread (Dave53) Sgt Gator provided a chart of pumps (10mm, 11mm, 12mm) and pressures. 11 is greater than 10.
I am surprised that the pump / kit providers do not have performance specifications on the pump and regulator.
jim

[Raven225]

First Real Drive
I took the car out for a drive on public roads for the first time today, I did 31 miles total. It was a lot of fun actually driving the car not just putting around the neighbor hood. I am starting to get the hang of the knees in my chest clutch pedal and only killed it once at a stop sign on a hill. The drive consisted of varying speed limits of 45-60mph so I saw varying load and rpms through out the drive. I absolutely love the noises the car made. The rubble, turbo spool and the beautiful "psssssshhhhh" made by the blow off valve when you let off the gas made my day. I did not have any major issues, no leaks, highest coolant temp was 207F, but quickly decreased to 190F when I started moving again. The outside temp was 94F and I do not have the A/C system charged with Freon yet so I was expecting it to be a warm drive, but it was a lot hotter in the cabin than I anticipated. When I pulled into the drive way the thermometer I had said 117F in the cabin. I did not realize how hot I was until I got out of the car. I think that hot air from the engine bay is flowing through my center console/tunnel into the cab. The tunnel was hot to the touch even my shifter started to get warm! So I need to spend sometime sealing that up better to keep some of the heat out. twice during the drive my brake pedal went soft. It only seemed to happen when the clutch pedal was completely depressed, but that may just be a coincidence since the clutch is pushed in majority of the time I was pressing the brakes. I am going to bleed the brakes this weekend to see if that eliminated the problem.

In regards to my Oiling situation. My oil at the warmest point was only 180F which is still below normal operating conditions. I think it is strange that the oil is not getting warmer, but at this temp I was able to get the rpms up to about 5000 with out pinning out my Oil Pressure gauge so that is encouraging.

Sun Set pic: 190319
Garage Pic After Drive: 190320

[Dave 53]

Your car looks great!

I used an 11mm pump because I have a built engine track car. And I'm questioning if I should have stuck to the 10mm pump. For a street car, for sure 10mm.

[Ajzride]

Great pics!!

[Raven225]

Oil Question

What oil are you all running in your 818s? Please specify the type of driving you are doing.

I am on my last break in oil change and I need some suggestions for what people are running for regular use.

[Bicyclops]

Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-30 is what was recommended by my tuner.

Ed

[blomb11]

I have stuck with Rotella T6 5W-40 which is what I ran on my STI on e85 for 2 years before I sold it. I have the same oil in the 818 now in my EJ207 with a similar e85 set up. I know a lot of people like the Motul as well.

[Dave 53]

I have a friend that's a professional Subaru race car mechanic. I asked him what weight oil I should use and he said, "Motul". I asked again, what WEIGHT and he said "Motul". Yaa, but what weight? "Motul".

I have been using Motul Sport 5W40, which isn't made anymore. I have enough for one more change which I do every 9-10 track hours. I routinely get it up to 260 degrees and have had a couple of accidental 290 degree peaks at 105 degree Southern California track days. Blackstone analysis has said the oil was fine after those temps and hours.

When I figured out they stopped making the Sport 5W40, I panicked and scoured the internet for any old stock - none. Seems it was replaced with 300V Power which is probably the same stuff in a different container and sits between the 8100 and 300V Competition products. Then they discontinued that too! So now it's 8100 or 300V Competition - no more in between product. I found only one legitimate site on the whole internet that said they still had some 300V Power in stock. Probably too good to be true. I ordered 40 liters and figured I'd get a call saying they actually didn't have it. To my surprise, it showed up at my door. I opened the boxes and they sent me 300V Competition! Score!!

I just checked Amazon (shipped from Newparts) and they say they have 300V Power for $15 / liter. I don't believe it, but if it's true, I'd jump on that deal, at least for a track car. I can't remember for sure, but that's who I might have gotten my deal from, so maybe you'd get Competiton from them like I did!

Seems the 8100 is prefect for a street car.

RCM Race oil filter.

[BigDanSubaru]

I have stuck with Rotella T6 5W-40 which is what I ran on my STI on e85 for 2 years before I sold it. I have the same oil in the 818 now in my EJ207 with a similar e85 set up. I know a lot of people like the Motul as well.

Rotella T6 used to be a great oil for Subies. However, they changed their formula and removed a lot of the zinc content in the oil. This was not announced or advertised, leaving some Subies with blown motors. In talks with a local tuning shop, they noticed that the recent blown motors were all running Rotella T6. They tracked the issue down to the decrease in zinc as I mentioned. The tuning shop recommended Motul, and that is all I will run now. With a fall back being Castrol Edge (previously syntec) if I cannot source Motul for whatever reason. But it can be purchased on Amazon now, so I don't really have a problem getting it anymore. It IS expensive, but so is a new motor.

[Raven225]

Thank you all for your input I am going to get some Motul 8100 X-cess 5w30 since I am not going on the track and have been having some oil high pressure issues with the Motul 10w40 break in oil I have been running. It should get here this weekend so I hopefully can report back about it next week.

[Rob T]

Red Line Race 50wt. Really 15W50. Track use only. Not street legal. Crazy expensive. Super high ZDDP levels.

[Raven225]

Update

I received my new oil: Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w30

Did the oil change and put a little over 88miles on the car this past weekend. Oil pressure was much better once warm. Oil got to about 180F and would be ~20psi at idle and then would quickly jump to ~75psi by 2500rpm and would max out about ~80psi at 5500rpm. I never went higher rpm as I am still breaking in the motor, but everything appears to be working correctly now when it comes to oil pressure.

Enjoyed my drives significantly more than my initial one. I am getting used to the many quirks these cars have. I get lots of thumbs up and confused looks at stop lights. I have only been driving early in the morning or at night because it is hot in the car. I am not using the back hatch at the moment which causes the hot air from the engine bay to flow forward into the low pressure zone of the cab. I need to work on sealing the center hole in the fire wall that all my cords and shifter cables go through to prevent this. Next week is supposed to drop from mid 90sF down to 70F as the high so that will be amazing.

One issue that I am experiencing that I need some input on is my brake pedal will intermittently go sorta soft. Normal feel is firm as soon as you hit the pedal, but sometimes the pedal will travel roughly 3/4" and then get firm. I have a Wilwood pedal box with STI bembros. The car will still come to a stop when the pedal is soft it is just un-nerving feeling. I have bled the brakes and a few bubbles came out of the rear passenger side, but bled a few rounds and that disappeared. No bubbles out of any of the other bleeder valves just fluid.

Bonus Picture:190773

[driveslikejehu]

"One issue that I am experiencing that I need some input on is my brake pedal will intermittently go sorta soft. Normal feel is firm as soon as you hit the pedal, but sometimes the pedal will travel roughly 3/4" and then get firm. I have a Wilwood pedal box with STI bembros."

I had similar feel and bleeding problems with my STI/Wilwood setup. It wasn't until I used a pressure bleeder and somebody pushing the pedal that it became quite firm.

[Raven225]

So after messing with the brake system for awhile I realized that I have a small leak on the center master cylinder. I think that at some point it got low enough to get air in there. After filling the system and bleeding it many times the pedal has not gone soft in ~200miles. I have had to add maybe 50ml of brake fluid over those 200 miles. I can see a small amount of blistering on the paint just below the center master cylinder in the pedal box. I am going to come back to that this winter when the car is up on jacks.

Tuning
I am going open source for tuning in order to achieve the ability to pass an OBDII inspection. I have a few feelers out to tuners in my area on getting a slot on a dyno, but my question to you guys is: how are you tying down your 818 on the dyno? Please provide pictures.

[Raven225]

Trip to the Dyno

Last weekend I packed the car and tools up and went down to Houston to get my open source tuned. My goals were to eliminate all of the Check Engine Lights and to achieve safe reliable power between 300hp and 350hp on 93 pump gas. Despite some build issues revealed during the dyno tuning all goals were met, but I will be going back after I make some changes.

Loaded up to head to Houston: 193950

Big shout out to Jay Are Snow for tuning my 818c. He did an amazing job and worked with me on the quirks of the 818.

The Good: I was able to hit 355hp and 323ft/lbs and all CELs have been taken care of.

The Bad: The car is running into a over boost/boost creep problem due to the fact that the blouch 1.5XTR IWG is undersized. It hit 27lbs of boost with the waste gate wide open. So the tuner pulled the rev limit way down to avoid any major issues. I am going to have to go to an EWG set up to fully eliminate the problem. I had also forgotten to hook up the Fuel Pressure Regulator Boost reference which we realized about two hours into the tuning session. Luckily I had some silicone vacuum hose with me and hooked it up and that fixed the issue where it was leaning out at higher boost.

Dyno Video and Graph:
https://youtu.be/-z19g5uQe_E 193951

Conclusion: It was a great experience for me as this was my first engine build and first time doing any type of tuning. I learned a lot and had a good time. This was the first real test of my creation. I had been babying it up until now.

[Dave 53]

I hate to be a buzz kill and I'm not a tuner, but I'm seeing red flags.

You've got to tune around the hardware on the car at the time of the tune. A tune that requires the rev limiter to be set at about 6,350 rpm (is that the case?) is not a proper tune. A tune that requires such restriction on rpm is by definition, not safe or reliable and is at best, temporary. I'd keep a very close eye on the boost as you drive it and if it goes over about 18 psi, you are out of the safe and reliable zone.

A EWG is not the solution either. It's a bandaid covering up some root issue (like a bad tune). Are you sure the waste gate is working? Did you physically see the levers moving?

The fact that he took so long to tune it and that he didn't immediately pick up that there was an issue with fuel pressure is a red flag.

I'd find a different tuner. Many call themselves a tuner and very few are. In Northen California, EVERYONE in the Subaru community knows that Travis at Snail Performance is the man. The undisputed guru and only NorCal tuner that will ever touch my car. Find the Travis of Texas.

I hate to come off so negative or like I'm some sort of know it all. I hope you enjoy the car, but again, I'm not a tuner, but I don't think the guy you got is either.

[BigDanSubaru]

Those are great results, congratulations! With that large increase in power, just watch your temps on track. Especially since you are still ait-to-air TMIC like me. Although your core is much larger than my OEM STI one, heat is still an issue in mid-engine cars. Some guys have done plenum boxes from the roof intake tubes to their TMIC. Some have added fans to them. You have that louver at the back of the car which may help. Did you install the cylinder 4 cooling mod? A lot of companies make them. I incorporated that mod into the heater core delete loop hose that FFR provides. Supposed to help even out engine block coolant temps. A lot of reputable shops run them and/or recommend them to customers.

[Raven225]

I hate to be a buzz kill and I'm not a tuner, but I'm seeing red flags.

You've got to tune around the hardware on the car at the time of the tune. A tune that requires the rev limiter to be set at about 6,350 rpm (is that the case?) is not a proper tune. A tune that requires such restriction on rpm is by definition, not safe or reliable and is at best, temporary. I'd keep a very close eye on the boost as you drive it and if it goes over about 18 psi, you are out of the safe and reliable zone.

A EWG is not the solution either. It's a bandaid covering up some root issue (like a bad tune). Are you sure the waste gate is working? Did you physically see the levers moving?

The fact that he took so long to tune it and that he didn't immediately pick up that there was an issue with fuel pressure is a red flag.

I'd find a different tuner. Many call themselves a tuner and very few are. In Northen California, EVERYONE in the Subaru community knows that Travis at Snail Performance is the man. The undisputed guru and only NorCal tuner that will ever touch my car. Find the Travis of Texas.

I hate to come off so negative or like I'm some sort of know it all. I hope you enjoy the car, but again, I'm not a tuner, but I don't think the guy you got is either.

I understand some of your points so i want to explain a bit better.

After doing the cold start/low load tuning to get the speed density portion nailed down. he informed me that he was noticing some oddities with the fueling. (I do not have a Fuel pressure sensor) so He asked what kind of regulator and fuel pump i was running. I showed him the regulator and he saw that the boost reference nipple was not in use. So i rectified that situation and that fixed the fueling issue.

Once he started doing high rev pulls on the dyno he stopped and said he needed to look at how I had plumbed the boost controller because he was getting some over boost/boost creep. We both inspected and agreed it was hooked up correctly. So he suggested we by pass the Electronic boost controller to see if it was not functioning properly. This resulted in slightly less boost creep because the waste gate was effectively open as soon as any boost started building in the system. (this is how i understand it, I may be wrong.) The IWG was opening, I verified it was swinging open by watching it during two runs.

Now I do not understand what you mean by saying an EWG is a bandaid. The root cause is my IWG is not by-passing enough exhaust gasses to keep from building too high of boost. EWG were literally designed to fix that issue by providing a much larger bypass of exhaust gasses. An EWG of proper size would allow me to actually use the electronic boost controller how it was meant to be and have features such as boost by gear and such.

I am fully aware that the tune and car are not perfectly safe/reliable at this time because I could potentially over boost and have detonation if I hit WOT in the later gears. That is why I said I needed to make some changes and go back. I am completely confident in Jay Are Snow's tuning capabilities, He is a well respected tuner in the Houston area for Subarus and Miatas. I appreciate you taking the time to point out some red flags and after re-reading my post I can understand some of the concern. I think that the two issues arose from my lack of experience. I kinda knew the bigger turbo might mean I need to go to EWG set up, but I did not want to spend the money if I didnt have too.

[Dave 53]

I overreacted a bit. I should have a have asked a few questions and not jumped to conclusions. I appreciate the clarifications.

I've had a couple of conversations with "tuners" that absolutely exposed their ignorance. I probably (incorrectly) put tuners in two camps - the far and few between good ones and the far too many that think they are, but aren't. I'm probably too quick to pigeonhole a tuner as soon as I see what I perceive to be a red flag. I'm glad to hear your guy has a good reputation and you have confidence in him.

I recall a refreshing (in his honesty) conversation I had with a "kid" after one of my tunes. He asked how much power I got - 273whp. I asked him about his car - 400whp. I asked if it was reliable. "No. That's why I'm here. It blew up." Perhaps my engine is undertuned for reliability and I'm leaving some power on the table, but my tuner said he got all he could out of it on pump gas (an overly simplistic statement). So, when I hear 355 safe and reliable hp on 93, first I'm jealous, then I question - how? How that much power and still reliable? Are the tuner and owner aligned on what safe and reliable means?

I looked up your turbo and it seems to be designed for our application and is advertised to be good up to 480hp. So, something just doesn't seem right here. I'm still questioning the diagnosis that the design of the turbo is inadequate. I'm just suggesting maybe something else is causing the problem. It was improper for me to suggest that maybe it was a ****ty tune.

Tuners... Reminds me of a saying about doctors. You know what they call the guy that graduates from medical school last in his class?

Peace

[Raven225]

I have seen the 1.5XTR go up to 500hp on E85. According to my tuner and a few other people I have talked to say that the bleeding edge for 93 on the EJ25 is 400hp or so. Also we would need to talk about Temp, Humidity, type of dyno and other factors to really be talking apples to apples on the HP amount. For example the dyno I am on is an inertia dyno which as I understand are not as accurate as a loaded dyno would be. Also lets be real here 100hp or my 87.5hp per cylinder is not going to be sustainable on the track for a long period of time, but since I mostly drive on the street and will be doing a few short events it can be managed as long as I am not WOT for an extended period of time.

[Raven225]

Those are great results, congratulations! With that large increase in power, just watch your temps on track. Especially since you are still ait-to-air TMIC like me. Although your core is much larger than my OEM STI one, heat is still an issue in mid-engine cars. Some guys have done plenum boxes from the roof intake tubes to their TMIC. Some have added fans to them. You have that louver at the back of the car which may help. Did you install the cylinder 4 cooling mod? A lot of companies make them. I incorporated that mod into the heater core delete loop hose that FFR provides. Supposed to help even out engine block coolant temps. A lot of reputable shops run them and/or recommend them to customers.

I do have the cylinder 4 cooling mod installed.

[Raven225]

Update Part 1

A lot has happened since I last posted back in February. I will probably break it all up into three parts.

The main issue I ran into during my first trip to the Dyno was the overboost/boost creep issue. The internal waste gate in the turbo was not big enough to bypass enough exhaust gases to keep the boost down to a safe level. The car was hitting 27psi with waste gate open the whole time. We were shooting for around 20psi max so major problem. My solution to this was to go to an external waste gate set up. I originally wanted to avoid this for a few different reason ranging from extra cost to issues with passing emissions/inspection with an external waste gate, but here we are. I ended up getting a CNT EWG uppipe and a Tial MVS 38mm waste gate. While going down this rabbit hole I decided to also upgrade from the OEM exhaust manifold to a equal length header. I ended up getting a great deal on a Killer B Holy Header.

Killer B Holy Header pic:201025

I wanted to do some heat shielding for the whole exhaust system and I ended up going a little over board. I used DEI's Titanium Exhaust wrap as the base layer and then did dimpled Aluminum shielding around that secured with SS zip ties. This was as close as I could get to what professional race teams use for their heat shielding with the tools and experience i had. The exhaust wrap was pretty straight forward and easy. Watched a few videos and did it. The Aluminum shielding was a little bit more tricky, especially when I got to the exhaust manifold. Things quickly got complicated and kind of ugly. Thankfully most people wont ever see it. I also did the same thing to the down pipe and EWG dump tube. I do not currently have photos of that to share.

Wrapped Upipe: 201026
Shielded Uppipe: 201027

Unfortunately I didnt getting any photos of the wrapped headers.

Shielded Headers: 201030201029201028

Once that was all done I installed the new exhaust system. Everything went smoothly and fit.

In the next update I will cover the rest of the changes I made before I went down to the Dyno again and have more pics of the exhaust system.