Bad Starter?

[bldr.rob]

Wondering if I have a bad starter, already. My car only has 196 miles on it. It all started about a month ago when my wife and I went for a beautiful drive through the Texas hill country. About 90 miles. Our first long trip. Came home and parked the car in the driveway. Went to start it about an hour later to pull it into the garage and no start. I can hear the fuel pump run and all gauges have power but it won't start. I can hear a small "whining" come from the starter area. Not sure how else to describe it. Doesn't last long 1-2 seconds. I checked all ground wires and fuses. Removed and reinstalled the clutch and brake cut-off wires thinking that may be it. But no luck. I have 12.33volts at the battery and 12.33 at the starter. The car has a BPE 427, carbureted, battery in the trunk.

Would appreciate any insight as to where to start checking next.

Thank you.

Rob

[Railroad]

Could be,,,, the starter bendix is not pushing the starter gear forward to engage the flywheel ring gear,,,,, or
the starter stayed energized after the starting for your trip. This means the starter ran the full length of your ride. When you did shut the engine off, the starter was disconnected electrically. Upon trying to restart, you now have a fried starter. This can happen when the key switch sticks in the start position.
Starter motors are high strength motors, not necessarily designed for long run times.
You might put your hand on the starter, while someone hits the key. If you feel the motor running, probably the gear or bendix.
Good luck, let us know what you find. Battery voltage will not assure starter operation. You need to load test the battery for amps. With old style head lights, not LED, a weak battery will show dimming headlights, when the starter is activated.
Just throwing out some elimination test for you.

[bldr.rob]

Thanks - i tried to jump it with another vehicle. No change. I pulled the battery and took to the local auto parts store and it load tested good. 800cca and the same 12.33 volts that i read. The battery is just under 2 years old

If I pull the starter, any recommendations on a replacement?

Thank you.

Rob



Could be,,,, the starter bendix is not pushing the starter gear forward to engage the flywheel ring gear,,,,, or
the starter stayed energized after the starting for your trip. This means the starter ran the full length of your ride. When you did shut the engine off, the starter was disconnected electrically. Upon trying to restart, you now have a fried starter. This can happen when the key switch sticks in the start position.
Starter motors are high strength motors, not necessarily designed for long run times.
You might put your hand on the starter, while someone hits the key. If you feel the motor running, probably the gear or bendix.
Good luck, let us know what you find. Battery voltage will not assure starter operation. You need to load test the battery for amps. With old style head lights, not LED, a weak battery will show dimming headlights, when the starter is activated.
Just throwing out some elimination test for you.

[Rdone585]

Do you have a heavy duty ground wire / strap from the frame to the block near the starter? Are the connections for that ground wire good, tight and not corroded? Fix this first if there is a problem.
With someone pushing in the clutch, you can use a heavy duty screw driver to short out between the two heavy posts on the starter. This should cause the starter to run. Careful, this is a direct (i.e. probably unfused) connection to the battery. If the starter runs but doesn't engage with the flywheel then the bendix has stuck. If the bendix is stuck, you can bang on the starter with a heavy object attempting to unstick the bendix so you can get started and get back home. You can also use a similar procedure to test the starter on the bench.

[bldr.rob]

I have the ground wire/ strap that came with the complete kit from the frame to block. It's at the front of the block. About 1" wide, 1/4" thick. I have checked all ground wires and they are tight and making good contact. I have seen other posts where people have replaced all the ground wires with 2awg wire. Not sure if that is my issue but have been thinking about that as well. Will try the process you described below. Thank you.




Do you have a heavy duty ground wire / strap from the frame to the block near the starter? Are the connections for that ground wire good, tight and not corroded? Fix this first if there is a problem.
With someone pushing in the clutch, you can use a heavy duty screw driver to short out between the two heavy posts on the starter. This should cause the starter to run. Careful, this is a direct (i.e. probably unfused) connection to the battery. If the starter runs but doesn't engage with the flywheel then the bendix has stuck. If the bendix is stuck, you can bang on the starter with a heavy object attempting to unstick the bendix so you can get started and get back home. You can also use a similar procedure to test the starter on the bench.

[Nigel Allen]

There is no way any starting battery (that would fit a cobra) that is load tested at 800amps will be at 12.33 volts. More likely around 9-10 volts.


Measure the voltage between the large start terminal and engine block WHEN CRANKING.

I think I need to do a write up on this checklist as it seems to be a weekly occurrence :)

[Mastertech5]

Jumping between the 2 large studs on the starter will only cause it to spin and not engage the bendix. I would jump between the small terminal and the battery cable, which bypasses the ignition switch. If the noise you hear is a whirring sound then it usually is the bendix slipping. Replaceable part. If the starter just clunks then the drive is coming out but the motor isn't spinning. Nigel is correct about the battery voltage, dropping to 10 volts is normal while cranking. Bench testing with jumper cables, ground to case positive to cable stud and jump positive to small stud, is a good idea before getting parts. Hold it tight, it has a lot of torque. If it works and the drive kicks out then you probably have a wiring or cable problem unless you heard the whirring noise on an in car test.

[bldr.rob]

I appreciate you responding but you are incorrect. I have an Optima Red Top mounted in the trunk and it read 800cca with 12.33v on the load test at the parts store. I will say that it is alot mre dificult to get out tan i'd like but it fits. Thank you for reading my post and the advice. I'll check the voltage as you stated below.




There is no way any starting battery (that would fit a cobra) that is load tested at 800amps will be at 12.33 volts. More likely around 9-10 volts.


Measure the voltage between the large start terminal and engine block WHEN CRANKING.

I think I need to do a write up on this checklist as it seems to be a weekly occurrence :)

[bldr.rob]

Thank you. I'll check that as well. Seem like the popular opinion is to replace the starter and add a heat shield.



Jumping between the 2 large studs on the starter will only cause it to spin and not engage the bendix. I would jump between the small terminal and the battery cable, which bypasses the ignition switch. If the noise you hear is a whirring sound then it usually is the bendix slipping. Replaceable part. If the starter just clunks then the drive is coming out but the motor isn't spinning. Nigel is correct about the battery voltage, dropping to 10 volts is normal while cranking. Bench testing with jumper cables, ground to case positive to cable stud and jump positive to small stud, is a good idea before getting parts. Hold it tight, it has a lot of torque. If it works and the drive kicks out then you probably have a wiring or cable problem unless you heard the whirring noise on an in car test.

[Nigel Allen]

I appreciate you responding but you are incorrect. I have an Optima Red Top mounted in the trunk and it read 800cca with 12.33v on the load test at the parts store. I will say that it is alot mre dificult to get out tan i'd like but it fits. Thank you for reading my post and the advice. I'll check the voltage as you stated below.

I reread my post and it is a little bit blunt, potentially insinuating you are wrong. Please accept my apology.

I don’t doubt the voltage value you got from the load tester. However, I do doubt that the load tester was testing the Optima at 800 amps when you got the reading of 12.33 volts (almost 10kW!). Even at a couple of hundred amps, batteries will normally sag below 11 volts. All batteries have internal resistance. It is affected by battery chemistry, size, temperature, state of charge, age, derating. This resistance affects how far the voltage swings from nominal ~12.3-12.5volts when current is being exported(discharging) from the battery. I stand to be corrected if this is different for Optima batteries, but I haven't been able to find any technical information to specifically support (other than salesy claims) that their internal resistance is extremely low.

I work with batteries for a living - diesel generators, UPS and DC systems, 35 years experience(gulp). With over a 100,000 tests, have never seen any battery hold such a high value when subjected to a high load. Therefore I expect either the test equipment or the process might be an issue.

Regardless, you can do the necessary tests at home on your vehicle, using a multi-meter, which is more relevant, faster and will non-invasively find your issue. If you need any other support with fault finding do not hesitate to reach out.

Best of luck,

Nige