JB (Jose & Ben) Build Thread

[scrubs]

Well, it's time. After years of contemplation, my son (14) and I (old) will undertake a Roadster build. We are going to keep it basic and see how we do.

I want to thank the forum upfront. Even without a build, everyone has been so pleasant and helpful with my first posts. The thread's purpose is to potentially help someone in the future (not sure of this objective given all the ridiculously excellent build threads) and, more importantly, for all the sages on this site to point out when I am misstepping and to ask for help (I will do my best to search exhaustively first, promise).

I will see how this post goes and adjust pic sizes etc as I learn.


I was lucky to get home in time from my snowmobile trip to take delivery. The driver's wife (such a nice couple BTW) forgot to secure the crane in the trailer, so it rolled forward to the front and came off the tracks. We had to help get that back on track, not a big deal. There is a 14 degree incline to my home, so we had to strap it to the dolly to tow it up the hill. Thankfully, all went well and here she (is that PC?) in my garage, where she will gestate.


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I completed my inventory (box) yesterday. Only had to add a few more items to the POL. I emailed it back to Sally this AM - I think she hates me already. This is what my garage looked like when I was done with inventory and I was happy.


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Until I told my wife and she said: "great, how and where are you going to organize it?" Not the hill to die on, so spent some time today re-configuring:



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Will probably start marking tomorrow!


P.S. The build manual is on version 5B

[BRRT]

Congrats on the arrival! Should be a great experience with your son.
Mine arrives in August. It's a long way off, but the excitement grows every day.

[John Ibele]

Congrats on receiving the kit, digging in, and kicking off the build thread. You’ve got a great father / son project ahead. And don’t worry a bit about originality in the build thread. I figure on the one hand it’s all been covered before, but on the other, none of it exactly the way you’ll do it. And even proven stuff that’s been covered before gets further communicated as best practice. The free advice and encouragement doesn’t hurt a bit either. Looking forward to following along.

[scrubs]

Was able to tackle the tear down today.

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I took plenty of pics of the panels in-situ with their numbers. If someone needs pics of overlaps or numbers, let me know and I can email ya.


Here is the pic of the carcass heading down to storage (I live on a hill)...



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The gratuitous nude shot:


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Finally, a question...my PS F-panel was fine, but my DS, not so much. As shipped, the marking for the rivets would not hit the frame. I read the other post on moving the panel forward to compensate, with trim of the anterior tip. I am shooting for purchase on the frame. Bear with me, first panels, anything that I should concern me with this plan of action?

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Thanks,


j

[scrubs]

Well, got the jitters out of the way and got the F panels on today. The DS needed that trimming in order to move it forward a bit. Feel like a baby taking their first step.

Used a Milwaukee cordless rivet gun...wow, that thing is awesome. Highly recommended.


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[Mike.Bray]

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Either you've stood your frame on its nose for assembly, which would be totally cool, or your pictures are sideways:)

If it's the pictures, open them in Paint on your computer and resave as a jpeg. That will sort out the goofiness the phones do to images and they will be orientated corrected.

[scrubs]

Well this looked good in the preview, let's see. Got he front LCA's on and Wesson was checking my work.


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[scrubs]

Either you've stood your frame on its nose for assembly, which would be totally cool, or your pictures are sideways:)

If it's the pictures, open them in Paint on your computer and resave as a jpeg. That will sort out the goofiness the phones do to images and they will be orientated corrected.


Even though the original was upright, I exported again as you suggested and seemed to work. Will see if I can fix the others. Gracias.

j

[scrubs]

Took a few days to visit Mickey with the kids and figured I'd get the front UCA's done before the game.

Thankfully, the upper ball joints went in no-problemo. Think I jinxed myself there a bit.

PS UCA seemed to go well, but then...interference on the DS.

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It seemed way far, but then I snugged up the nut at that end of the pivot shaft. It allowed the UCA to get to the chassis. As you can see, the washer and nut made asmall mod to the F panel. The UCA is secure and my thought was that a trim of the F panel would be "real" clearance, so should be fine. Saw some other complaints of the same issue, but not sure how they resolved.

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I tried adjust the UCA's to match the specs on the manual. I am pretty close, but my my short arm (both DS & PS) are maxed to one side (to min the distance - currently 7.5"). The pic also shows how much I tightened the nuts at the ends of the pivot shaft - basically enought to close the gap between the UCA and the bushing). Moves stiffly, but accepted and leaked when greased.

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Thanks to the search button to help me figure out why all my shocks were the same length when the manual was telling me the F/R were supposed to be 2" different. Was able to ge them done before kickoff. Am I the only one that thinks its odd, given the stresses on a working suspension, that they recommend zip ties to keep the coil in place? Just gonna go with it.

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Oh yeah, recall @Papa noticing his spring orientation after I looked at my pic...I was thinking about it pre-assemble, but think the UCA issue threw me off. Not going back for that one.


Questions for the crew:

1) Any concerns with how I handled/current state of my DS UCA? How do others manage?

2) Any ideas/concerns about the one adjustment bar on each UCA being maxed out? think i got this answered...gonna trim the rearward sleeves

3) I was looking at my build school pics and noticed they did a prelim camber/to adjustment at this point in the build. I have no rear end or tires yet. It doesn't seem useful at this point without motor etc. When do people normally align for the first time?

4) Anything else y'all see, let me know, please.

Off to snowmobile tomorrow, so a few days of no progress coming (may be just me, but I seem to think about it all the time).

Thanks,

j

[scrubs]

What happens when you snowmobile 170 miles in -24 degree temps and your heating packet gets jammed between your palm and handlebar...

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Anyway, got some work in today after a few days in the UP. Finished front shocks, spindles, hubs and brakes. Those little rubber boots on the sliding pins result in some cussing. Please let me know if anyone sees anything out of whack. Seemed straightforward...which scares me.

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[scrubs]

Family stuff shortened the day...but managed to amputate the rear IRS spindles and drill the tapered holes up to 5/8s.

1) Not sure if there the difference is real...but I drilled up to 1/2" with my Dewalt bit and it went thru like butter. Then used a non-Dewalt 5/8" bit and was much more painful. Was it the 1/8" difference or the bit brand, not sure. I am going Dewalt for the front mounting points of the IRS and will report back. This took longer than I thought. Also, used both the heavy metal and wood blades for the spindle amputation. I favor the wood.

2) Regarding the replacement of the hub studs...my impact wrench had difficulty getting them all the way in and using a standard 1/2" ratchet is very difficult (at least on my hub/stud combo). Ended up using the impact for the first 2/3rd and then breaker bar to finish it off prior to torque wrench.

Hope to make more progress tomorrow.

j


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[mladen]

Family stuff shortened the day...but managed to amputate the rear IRS spindles and drill the tapered holes up to 5/8s.

1) Not sure if there the difference is real...but I drilled up to 1/2" with my Dewalt bit and it went thru like butter. Then used a non-Dewalt 5/8" bit and was much more painful. Was it the 1/8" difference or the bit brand, not sure. I am going Dewalt for the front mounting points of the IRS and will report back. This took longer than I thought. Also, used both the heavy metal and wood blades for the spindle amputation. I favor the wood.

2) Regarding the replacement of the hub studs...my impact wrench had difficulty getting them all the way in and using a standard 1/2" ratchet is very difficult (at least on my hub/stud combo). Ended up using the impact for the first 2/3rd and then breaker bar to finish it off prior to torque wrench.

Hope to make more progress tomorrow.

j


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Replacing the studs is really not easy. I ended up damaging and having to buy a new spindle. The bolts would not go in without extreme torque, way more than the manual suggested for the final torque. Then I spent time and money trying to find the same mind bolts which I never did. So now one of my wheels has black bolts that I had to shorten manually. On the repeat, this tool really helped to keep the bolt vertically aligned https://a.co/d/5tAta1h

[scrubs]

@Mladen, I treated the hubs gingerly today after reading your post. Thankfully, all went in with not too much trouble.

Decent day. Was able to complete the wheel stud install, attach hubs to spindles, drill the IRS center section, install the IRS bushings, assemble the control and toe arms.

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Question: I am sort of stuck here as the infamous "IRS Fasteners" are on POL and I don't see anything in the fastener pack that fits the bill. Are all the nuts/bolts/etc for the control and toe arms and center section and shocks all in this mysterious pack? The goo news is that FFR said they are taking the IRS fastener biz in house and I should hopefully get them in 10-14 days.


Decided to put together what I could of the rear brakes. Interesting sandwich adapter solution.

Question: The metal clips, they are not in the manual pics. I have seen other threads mention them and asking where they go, but no pics. Does anyone have a pic of their position? I assume they are necessary and there for a reason.

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Guess I will move on to next steps (dash aluminum and pedal box) later this week as I wait for "IRS Fasteners."


j

[mladen]

Yeah, all of my irs fasteners were together.

Those clips are anti rattle clips so the pads don’t vibrate. I have different brakes so not exactly sure where they go, but they usually have a pretty clear spot/groove where they click into place.

[robmccon]

I couldn’t figure out how to incorporate the clips on those rear pads as well! I assembled them without (for now).

[scrubs]

I couldn’t figure out how to incorporate the clips on those rear pads as well! I assembled them without (for now).

Glad to see I'm not nuts. I have changed hundreds of brakes over the yesrs and its not usually difficult to figure out the clips. I may remove the sliding bracket from the assembly to see if I see an obvious way (An old thread mentioned an epiphany while doing that) when I return from work trip. Will let you know if I figure it out.

J

[ggunter]

179550 Just trying to open this pic straight

[ggunter]

Hey it worked thanks, Mike

[scrubs]

OK, back from work trip and made some progress and learned some things...

1) Rear brake clips update:

I removed the sliding portion of the caliper and no luck. Then FFR answered my query about this issue. They sent me a set of instructions I had never seen before and made it clear where the clips are supposed go. The problem..they don't sit tight where they are supposed to go. The instructions show that they may be oversized and thus the pressure fit holds them in place. Mine have the opposite issue, no pressure so they fall right out. I have never seen such a poor design for these clips before. I am still communicating with FFR about this, but am leaving them out for now. The caliper is as slick as the clips. I will keep everyone updated if there is a solution. I can email the instructions I was given if anyone is interested.

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2) DS Front panel:

Thankfully read a few threads on this and I test fitted the pedals to avoid interference with the pedal bracket - very good idea. I busted a drill bit on the most medial hole as it ran into a weld seam. Need to figure that out.

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3) Pedals:

Note: the switch tabs...the FFR school said it would be ok to place the tab on either side of the pedal assembly...I disagree. I did that and found the switches to be too far from the pedals (ie was not going to strike the switch) - which I noted after securing the pedal brackets... I had to relocate them to where the manual suggests. Of course, my drill holes were off, so I had to grind the tabs down a bit to re-align. Found I had no lock nuts, so a trip to TSC - switched from 10-32 to 10-24. I think things wound up where they should, but would appreciate eyeballs on this to see if I am off somewhere.

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4) Master cylinder amputations:

Decided to finish off the afternoon with removal of the 5/8" from each shaft. Ben decided to help me while I cracked open the first Guinness of the weekend.

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Would appreciate any feedback on errors.

Thanks,

j

[DanQ]

That looks so exciting! My 33 Hot Rod arrives sometime in June.

[scrubs]

That looks so exciting! My 33 Hot Rod arrives sometime in June.

Dan,

It's a good time. There are moments of frustration with QC, instructions, etc, but you feel good when you overcome. The forum members and search are pretty awesome.

Good luck,

j

[mladen]

You're looking good on the cut off switches. I had a similar clearance issue but I just made the hole a bit bigger. These things aren't carrying any real weight or taking impact, so it's not a big deal

[egchewy79]

I also couldn't get the vibration clips to fit the rear calipers. I left them off.

[scrubs]

Thanks for the confirmation, Mladen/Chewy.

1) MC's/brake bar:

Well I had the MC's on when I noticed that the total clearance of 0.2-0.25" was non-existent...ugh. I had to pull one of the MC rods to increase the space from clevis to clevis (set to 0.22"). I was also concerned about the MC's returning completely to their relaxed position (which result in potential drag if not completely returned per the instructions), so I was took comfort in seeing this in the MC which I believe is what is necessary:

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2) I then replaced the MC rod as per the manual. I have the balance bar set evenly in the center and the MC rods also even. Do people usually set up as the manual says for the typical "asphalt" application (ie one rod more in the clevis than the other)? My current setting:

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3) I have the pedals set up with the offset below. The manual states the clutch is usually in front of the brake by about 2" and the brake in front of the accelerator pedal. I set the accel pedal angle 12 and 5, a previous post suggested something in that ballpark.

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4) Clipped the end of the accel cable, threaded, and placed the ball stud on engine side. My other ball-stud is POL.

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Questions:

1) Current MC rods even, do most offset as in manual?
2) Accel pedal (the arm with the cable) does hit the frame at max depression. Any mods needed here? The school said to cut, but that would put my cable at angle after going thru the aluminum.
3) Accel cable look ok?
4) Oh yeah, where does that return spring go?

That's about all for today. Will try to get to steering tomorrow.

Thanks fore all the help, guys.

j

[mladen]

Yes, you should generally have more braking on the front than the rear. Doa s per manual, but you can fine tune once the car is aligned and drivable.

Can't say much about the rest since I'm using Russ Thompson pedal and Forte's mechanical linkage instead of cable.

[scrubs]

Some disappointment to find 2 of my steeering rack bushings not in the box. Went a head and installed the Moog tie rod ends/grease fittings/nuts. Also adjusted width to the ~50" per the manual. Not sure if people found this to be a good start. Sure was nice to not have to trim the steering rack threads with the open Moog design. Emailed FFR for the bushings, but ordered the Breeze bushings as well. I bet they show up first:)

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Had my friend's kids over this AM (helped them install a cat-back in the kid's car), so used the young muscle to get the pumpkin in place. Easy work with 3 teenagers to lift. Used temp bolts as FFR said those fasteners are on the way too...

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I guess tomorrow will start steering shafts.

Happy Sunday and enjoy the Super Bowl!

j

[scrubs]

Was planning on steering today, but FedEx dropped off a little package that said "IRS Fasteners" - change of plans.

I had the pumpkin in place, so I thought the swap of the bolts would be no prob...wrong. It seems that each of the mounting points has no relationship to the others in regards to angles etc. Get one in, one goes off, etc. Some sweat and cussing, eventually got it done. Found the vent in a box somewhere and off to the races:

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Was really the same story for the rest of the components - upper/lower arms and toe arms. The space for each of the components to mount seemed always a fraction of a mm too narrow. Honestly, this should be a 1hr total install time....took all day. I am trying to "zen" as I build. I am used to precision and these loose tolerances make me cuss quite a bit. I guess that's one of the reasons why it feels like such an accomplishment to build one of these...you must overcome. Here are some pics of how I left it today. You see any errors, holler.

Thanks,

j


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[mladen]

Great job! Yeah, I remember all those issues. I definitely had to grind down a little bit some of those metal sleeves before they'd fit in the brackets.

[scrubs]

Great job! Yeah, I remember all those issues. I definitely had to grind down a little bit some of those metal sleeves before they'd fit in the brackets.

Thanks, Mladed...deep breaths:)

[scrubs]

Have to split town for rest of the week, so some quality time with her today...

1) Rear brakes install:

Not sure why they tell you to not torque the bolts down for the rear brake adapter bracket. In position it left me with no room for my torque wrench, so had to remove one bolt, swing the assembly back and torque. Just torqued on a vice for side 2. Parking brake went smoothly. Brake lines placed. Banjos left loose after reading all the snapped banjos.

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2) Steering shaft:

All I gotta say is: a) thank God I read the posts about sanding down the shaft that upper shaft and b) glad that no one walked by while I was sanding it...could have been interpreted as some pretty vulgar hand gestures...My upper shaft was initially several inches shy of making. The caveman in me would have found a way to irreversibly get in in there if not for the search function.

Reversed the bearing orientation (with some mild grinding) and clearance seems adequate.

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3) Clecos Rock:

I recall reading a thread that debated the utility of Clecos...there is no debate, I love those things. PS footbox mocked up.

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Oh well, a few days away, plenty of time to read. Thanks, everyone,

j

[mladen]

All I gotta say is: a) thank God I read the posts about sanding down the shaft that upper shaft and b) glad that no one walked by while I was sanding it...could have been interpreted as some pretty vulgar hand gestures...


Happened to me when the wife walking into the garage while I was polishing the lower radiator tube :D

[scrubs]

Well, got some work done in last 2 days...all aluminum up to the fuel system done (only footboxes have rivets, clecos for everyone else for access).

1) I am stuck on filter location because, of course, the manual location and line provided no workie, mucho kinky. Thinking of using this bracket which seems to be not used for IRS and generating a new line of 11.5" vs just making an in line in the engine bay (BPE said I just need 1 somewhere).

2) Do we just cap the return line (I am a carbureted 347)? Lazy me with what?

Thanks, all,

j


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[scrubs]

Beautiful day in Nashville today, perfect for some garage time.

Finally got to bending some lines today. Of course, my first go...bent 90 degrees in the wrong direction...oops.

Take two seemed to go better and the line wound up like this (please comment on any impending badness):


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Was not so crazy about the poor fit of the insulated clips, so ordered some today from Bezos. Should be here tomorrow (still amazed how fast they get stuff here...)

Turned to the gap from the filter to the hard line. Took me a sec to figure out what went where with the excellent figure in the manual, but I think this is correct:


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I noted the position of Edwardb's FPR and was thinking of this spot for mine (it is a carburted 347 from BPE). Does anyone see an issue with this location?


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I think that gets me to brake system. I opted for triple from Scottie's. Here is the mock up with some aluminum I trimmed. The forward most end of the bracket is at the magic <12" (11" in this pic). I planned on securing from the top of the 3/4" frame (i.e. the heads will site atop the 3/4" tube). I assumed the DS footbox aluminum and rivets will sit on the same plane, so a relatively low profile head should be ok - am I wrong to think this? Please let me know. Will also go ahead and order some 1/8NPT to 1/4" since they are still POL:(

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Appreciate any feedback.

j

[mladen]

Looks good! Working on those hard lines is daunting at first. I definitely wasted some pieces as I went along. You shouldn't have issues with th reservoir mounting bolts if they are low profile. You could also get countersunk ones to minimize protrusion.

Maybe late for you now, one thing I wish I did was get the flue lines so they are a bit above the PS footbox. Makes it easier to work with the connections, get a pressure gauge in and such. Not impossible. I removed the header to do it, but just thinking of longer term maintenance.

[scrubs]

Maybe late for you now, one thing I wish I did was get the flue lines so they are a bit above the PS footbox. Makes it easier to work with the connections, get a pressure gauge in and such. Not impossible. I removed the header to do it, but just thinking of longer term maintenance.

Tell me.more? How much higher, I can bend a new set.

[scrubs]

I hope some of you know what movie that was from.

Had to work travel today so just had time to bang out the triple reservoir. 11" from footbox at most anterior point, level with ground, under 3/4" frame, above MC's:

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[scrubs]

Slow morning, but was able to connect the reservoirs to the MC's.

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As I was continuing to plan my swap to flexible fuel lines, I learned something from BPE...despite their previous "confirmation" that I have a mechanical pump, I was informed (bcs I called to "re-confirm") that I actually got an electric Red Holley fuel pump. I immediately dropped a small poop in my pants bcs I may now need to reconfigure my tank-pump-filter arrangement, ugh. Then I need to power this pump..my weakness = wiring. Will be searching the forum for Kindergarten level help. Guess I'm gonna have to learn some stuff...

j