chevy vs ford powerplant

[jrohrig]

I have a mk4 complete kit coming in August of this year. I though I had already decided on what I was going to have under the hood. (A 351 Ford Windsor turn key package) I want/wanted a Ford motor so I could be more or less historically accurate. I admit to my complete ignorance, that I never even looked at Chevrolet engines. My buddy turned me on to the chevy 350s and 383 sb which create the same power for almost half the cost. Now, I know I could find used motors, both 350s and 351W with tons of miles for around the same price. But performance crate engines, chevy seems to have more bang for buck value. And didn't Carroll first try an get a GM engine in his original Cobras? That's gotta mean something too right? I'm building my dream car, and I have in my head what I want it to look like, but cost definitely plays a role in the decision making process. What's frustrating, is I have envisioned a smb Ford Windsor in this build for almost 20 years, and now that I have pulled the trigger, I'm realizing there is a small chance that can change. I will say, I am not interested in a modern modular engine. I want a push rod

[OSU Cowboy]

There are many that have built with chevy motors. It's your car and your build. Cost is an issue for most. I might have gone chevy as well, but I have a gear-head nephew that offered to sell me a Ford small block 347 that he built for $4K and I signed up. I've got 19K on the car now, and while the 347 is a bit cantankerous (it likes rpm and hates life below ~ 2100), it seems to fit the overall nature of what the car is all about.

Whether it's a ford or a chevy motor ... that won't affect the fun you will have driving the car provided that is why you are taking this on. I know I love to drive mine - still in gel coat after 3 years being on the road. It is the dark gray gel coat as it's a 3.1. For me - cost is an issue having body work and paint done, and, the gel coat is wearing like iron. No telling how beat up the front end would be now if it was painted.

[GTBradley]

First off, congrats!

The two things that would make me think twice about installing a Chevy in a Cobra replica: comments and resale.
People at car shows are typically surprised when the 427 Cobra replica doesn’t have 427 ci big block. I even had one guy who didn’t believe me when I told him that Carroll Shelby actually put a 428 in the later models and it was still a 427 Cobra. That’s no big deal to me, but the “sacrilege” comments will be non-stop if it’s a Chevy. Still not that big a deal if you save a lot of money on your engine and you like it. What I would consider carefully is that you will undoubtedly reduce the number of potential buyers who will be okay with a Chevy instead of a Ford when it comes time to sell. That will likely reduce the price you can get for your car.

[Mike.Bray]

The two things that would make me think twice about installing a Chevy in a Cobra replica: comments and resale.

Shelby did approach GM first and they turned him down. But how many people know that? Cobras are always associated with Ford. I was always a Chevy guy but building this 351W (393) showed me it's an impressive engine. There's a lot to like with it.

I built a Cobra back in the 90's and put a ZZ3 Chevy crate engine in it.
https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/motor2.jpg

Only real issue I had building it was I had to build motor mounts and fabricate headers. Other than that it ran great and with the crossram throttle body EFI most people never noticed it was a Chevy. But, when I went to sell it I couldn't. Everybody that looked at it loved the car but did not want a Chevy powered Cobra. Finally I pulled the engine out, relisted it, and the first looker bought it for the same money I was asking with the engine. IMO a pushrod Ford engine will sell for more and faster than any other engine.

You could split the difference and do an LS3 which FFR supports. For some reason it seems to be more accepted.

But whatever you choose make sure you're happy with it.

[JohnK]

Congratulations on taking the plunge!

There's no right or wrong answer here. It's your car, and you should build it however you like. That said, I'm picking up a hint of reluctance or even regret in "having to" go with a SBC. If the primary motivation to go with a SBC is to save some money, ask yourself if, 5 years from now, you're going to look at the car and wish you'd found a way to put a Ford engine in it. If you believe you'll be OK with a SBC then by all means go for it. You won't be the first, and it'll be an awesome car. But if you're already having reservations about it and are doing it for cost reasons alone then now's the time to get comfortable with whatever decision you make before you start spending a bunch of money.

[CraigS]

I don't consider myself a real strong purist regarding these cars. But, if I were looking to buy one, any possibles that had a Chev engine would be dropped from the list. I have never bought a complete crate engine but I did turn my 351 into a 408 by building up a shortblock from a Craigslist block. I didn't see these huge price differences between Chev and Ford that are often quoted. But I had to do a quick research so looked here.
https://enginefactory.com/
Whoa!!! Chev 400hp 350CI = $7645 vs Ford 400HP 351CI = $11595. So I see what you mean. I did not go through all the details so not sure these two are apples to apples but wow. $4k (slightly over a 50% increase) is very hard to justify.

[rich grsc]

BUT, you'll never be First On Race Day. :p

[jrohrig]

If the Ford sb was a significantly better engine, it would be easier to justify. But all my research shows they are very similar in both performance and reliability. I'll be using the car as a fun street cruiser, no track time or anything. The thing that's pushing me towards the Ford is authenticity. I'm doing 15 inches knockoffs, single roll bar, competition dash. It makes sense to do the Ford. I'm also a frugle spender so I can't help but think about ways to save money. This car is definitely in the want, not need category. Does anyone know why the chevys are cheaper?

[Ford & Jeep Fan]

There are advantages and disdvantages to every engine. the 302 ford is a Very compact engine for its CID. easy to get at when installed. Now with all this talk about money difference i'm still surprised at just how few on here build their own engines.(ive asked before about this)
I'm one of those that prefer built over bought. I'm in process of building a 351-393 inch Clevland engine for my future car. Still havn't got a crank and that will determine my final CID. My cam and heads should put me about 570-600HP and it will be cheaper than the Crate GM engines.

[Ford & Jeep Fan]

.........

You could split the difference and do an LS3 which FFR supports. For some reason it seems to be more accepted.

.......

Have you looked close at a LS engine ?? it is Full of Ford engine designs.

[jrohrig]

There are advantages and disdvantages to every engine. the 302 ford is a Very compact engine for its CID. easy to get at when installed. Now with all this talk about money difference i'm still surprised at just how few on here build their own engines.(ive asked before about this)
I'm one of those that prefer built over bought. I'm in process of building a 351-393 inch Clevland engine for my future car. Still havn't got a crank and that will determine my final CID. My cam and heads should put me about 570-600HP and it will be cheaper than the Crate GM engines.

For me, it's a time issue. I'm a build not bought guy too, as far as I can tell, but I don't have the additional time it will take build my own engine. I'm looking forward to the build, but I'm also really looking forward to the drive

[danmas]

I don't know that I would ever buy one of these cars already completed, but, I do know that I wouldn't buy one unless it had a ford 427 in it. My thoughts for what they are worth.

[drewr]

I built a Ford 347 Stroker and just had my first start. I bought a junkyard Ford 302 out of a 1995 F150 truck, stripped it to the block and had a local machine shop magnaflux, bore and hone it. I bought all an all new rotating assembly, camshaft, heads, intake, and accessory components. Assembly is not that hard. Plenty of books and YouTube videos on how to do it. The hardest part is making sure all the parts are compatible. Ford blocks changed slightly over the years. In terms of time, I bought all the parts and had the whole thing finished before my kit arrived. Maybe 3-4 Saturdays total?

Anyway, all in maybe $8k? You can save by using some used parts or starting with a Mustang engine. You can leave it a 302 and not build a stroker. A 351 or 427 would be more.

As everyone has said, you have to please yourself. Is cost more important or the idea of a Ford powered Cobra? There have been many great Chevy powered sports cars. They’re just called Corvettes.

[Mike.Bray]

Have you looked close at a LS engine ?? it is Full of Ford engine designs.

In what way? Other than being a pushrod V8 how is it like a Ford engine vs. a SBC? I'm curious.

[Jeff Kleiner]

For me, it's a time issue. I'm a build not bought guy too, as far as I can tell, but I don't have the additional time it will take build my own engine. I'm looking forward to the build, but I'm also really looking forward to the drive

What do you mean you don’t have the time to build an engine? You said the kit isn’t coming until August! Aside from machine shop time once parts are in hand you’re only looking at a couple of days.

Jeff

[GoDadGo]

As The Only Totally Crazy Chevy Guy On The Forum I Recommend The Following:

If you don't have Chevy stuff sitting around, then go with a Ford Windsor style engine.
If you don't like fabricating all sorts of stuff, then go with a Ford Windsor style engine.
If you want an engine that looks like a Ford but isn't, then look no further at go this LS:

Factory Five Does Support The LS Platform, But Not The Older SBC Series Engines:
https://paceperformance.com/LS3-533-HP-Pace-Performance-Crate-Engine-Carbureted-with-HEI-As-Cast-Valve-Covers-GMP-19370413-CHX.html

Shown Below Is The Redbone Roadster:
https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-new/customer-steve-l-graduates-his-mk4-roadster/

Good Luck & Choose Wisely!

[GTBradley]

…
As everyone has said, you have to please yourself. Is cost more important or the idea of a Ford powered Cobra? There have been many great Chevy powered sports cars. They’re just called Corvettes.
Exactly, and if there were a 65 Corvette replica, how many people would appreciate it with a Ford engine it?…some to be sure, but not many at sale time.

[OB6]

Many people, for good reason, go with the Coyote. But if we're talking replicas here, I would argue that the LS3 is more of a replica than a modular/coyote ever will be (brand notwithstanding).

[GoDadGo]

Exactly, and if there were a 65 Corvette replica, how many people would appreciate it with a Ford engine it?…some to be sure, but not many at sale time.

If it had a Boss 429 in it then even this Chevy Guy would Love, Love, Love, Love it.

[Ford & Jeep Fan]

In what way? Other than being a pushrod V8 how is it like a Ford engine vs. a SBC? I'm curious.

1 it is a Y-Block (like the 292-312 and FE 360-390-427)
2 10 head bolts per cylinder head (All 289-301-351, 390-427, 429-460)
3 Even port layout I-E-I-E-I-E-I-E-,...... (ALL 289-302-351,429-460)

Even GM performance parts division has a kit to install a distibutor on a LS engine that comes with a new timing cover.

The kick in the head, is that IT USES A 289-302 FORD DISTIBUTOR.

[GoDadGo]

The SBC has now been in production for 68 years.
The VW air cooled flat four was produced for 70.
What was the longest produced Ford engine?

[GTBradley]

But it is about brand so it is withstanding. 260, 289, 427, (which Ken Miles termed “the turd”), 428. Shelby and the gang investigated lots of different FORD engines in pursuit of better performance, but above all - total brand loyalty. Powered by Ford is iconic on the side of these cars. This isn’t a pissing match about which brand is better, because if it was other brands would contend too. This is about history. Put an eclectic motor in the thing and people will buy it, but it will never hold the public’s attention like a Ford engine will. I know the Coyote is no race tuned, big block, 427, side oiler and I accept that it won’t sell like one either.

PS. Personally, I think Ken Miles would be all over a light-weight, small displacement, high-reving engine like the Ford Coyote.

[phils88gt]

. I will say, I am not interested in a modern modular engine. I want a push rod

Alright; let's talk about what is driving your price? Can you share your specs of what you asked for and we can perhaps find you a way to make this cost less? I do however know that my 393 cost $6,204.24 for me to build. I balanced the crank myself when I say "build" so cost can be highly variable.

Phil

[phils88gt]

The SBC has now been in production for 68 years.

Ide like to roll out of the gate saying I'm not just a Ford fan, I like them all.

The G1 GM small block from 1955 isn't even the same motor. Its simular yes but the 265 doesn't have a place for an oil filter so let's woah back the idea that motor still exists now. The 305 went 1976-1992 and the 350 went 1967-2003. But the real start is the 4" bore 327 in 1962.. So let's agree to disagree it's 41 years.


What was the longest produced Ford engine?

I'm not the end all be all ford historian but I assume the 302 has the longest run. The 289 which is the same architecture as the 302 was introduced in 1963 ( with one less bolt hole in the bellhousing until 64.) But it's small bore 221 ci cousin breathed life in 1962. The motor we care about just like the SBC is the 4" flavor and starts in 1963 you really want to hang this argument on one year?

The 302 went 1968-2001. If you include the 289 which is the same engine it's 3 years in favor of the 350 ( if we count the 327 is the same ). Seriously it all washes out in the noise. The real sad part is the under utilization of the 351 in 1969-1996

[phils88gt]

In what way? Other than being a pushrod V8 how is it like a Ford engine vs. a SBC? I'm curious.

The lsx also has the same firing order as a 302HO/351. The intake amd exhaust ports are non siameese and it's pretty close dimensionally. The LS head will bolt to a Ford block, It will not work at all, but it's pretty simular.

The ls bore space is in between the 302/351 and the 305/350 and also between the deck height of a 350 and a 351. Essentially the same deck as as 351 cleveland.

Often the argument is made that the Lsx isn't a SBF it's just a little BBC. if that were true why no canted valves? Why not siameese intake?

The basic answer to all this is simple:

The 302/351 firing order is advantageous
The non siameese intake port is advantageous
The 9.5 deck 351 really is too tall and the 350 is too short. Something in the middle is just right.
The cam tunnel height of the 350 is too low. Lsx is even taller than 351 with a shorter deck for shorter pushrod.

It's not that the Lsx is a copy of a ford. The GM team was a great group that could recognize the shortcomings of the G1 Chevy and made a better engine. Would you not have expected them to learn after 40 years of experience?

Imagine if ford had another wack at the pushrod motor, look at the new 7.3 gas carefully; why is it the way it is?

Canted valve, 60MM cam diameter, mid deck, smaller main and rod journals then the usual ford.

Phil

[bobl]

The SBC has now been in production for 68 years.
The VW air cooled flat four was produced for 70.
What was the longest produced Ford engine?

Well you asked....The SBF was continually produced from 1962 - 2001. Chevy produced the traditional SBC from 1955 - 1998. If you count crate engines I think they are both still in production. It's debatable that the LS is really a SBC since it's a totally different platform and none of the parts interchange. But Chevy SBC has certainly been around longer and many more were produced, which explains some of the reason they are less expensive to build.

Ironically I have 3 different Chevy builds in my shop right now that covers the entire history. I have a traditional Gen I 350 build, a gen II LT1 out of a mid 90's corvette, and a gen 5 LT4 supercharged engine (650 HP) , out of a 2021 ZL1 Camaro. We are going to shoot for 750-800 out of this engine. It's destined for a 69 Camaro Indy Pace car.

Bob

[GoDadGo]

If you don't have an engine, go with a Ford or LS powerplant since they are supported by F-5.
I still think going with an engine that Factory Five Racing supports is easiest way to go.
If you want the look and feel of a Cobra, a push rod engine is the best option.
To install a SBC or BBC, the engine must move forward clear the distributor.
Headers, Drive Shaft, Engine & Transmission Mounts Must Be Fabricated!

https://youtu.be/_wnHDNgnNqs?list=TLPQMTYwMTIwMjOwLBuxLUyoqQ

Should you want to tackle a Dark Side Build, feel free to reach out to me because I can help.

[Its Bruce]

Many people, for good reason, go with the Coyote. But if we're talking replicas here, I would argue that the LS3 is more of a replica than a modular/coyote ever will be (brand notwithstanding).

I went LS because of size, power, aftermarket support, ease of maintenance, driveability and familiarity with tuning. These are somewhat subjective things, but if anyone asks, it's a pushrod 427 V8 that I don't intend to sell. For the record, I haven't come across any insurmountable issues with the LS in the MK4 platform, and I'm waiting on Gas-N headers to fire it up.

[Mike.Bray]

1 it is a Y-Block (like the 292-312 and FE 360-390-427)
2 10 head bolts per cylinder head (All 289-301-351, 390-427, 429-460)
3 Even port layout I-E-I-E-I-E-I-E-,...... (ALL 289-302-351,429-460)

Even GM performance parts division has a kit to install a distibutor on a LS engine that comes with a new timing cover.

The kick in the head, is that IT USES A 289-302 FORD DISTIBUTOR.

That's it?

By definition the Y-Block has an extended skirt. Like a Chrysler Hemi.

10 bolts per blank, probably what fits and works best. I doubt if the Chevy engineers even looked at a Ford to count the number of cylinder head bolts.

Port layout, like a BBC. Or Pontiac.

We should add it's a 90 degree V and 8 cylinders.

I built my 351W so I crawled all over my block. I've seen an LS3 block up close and there are major differences. My dog could see the differences. From across the room.

Did some Chevy engineers take a little inspiration from Ford engines? Possibly, they would not be doing their job if they didn't explore history and the hundreds of engine designs out there. Sorry but I think saying the LS is full of Ford design features is a stretch.

[jrohrig]

Here is the motor I am considering: https://smedingperformance.com/collections/ford-engines/products/427-windsor?variant=11963169112100

If you look and their chevy engines sections, they have a 383 with very similar power for almost half the price

[Hoooper]

Given the price, reliability, and aftermarket support for LS crate motors I would never even consider a GM gen 1 or 2 based engine. You can even put a carb on it if youre into that sort of thing

That 351/427 vs 383, the big difference is in the cubes and you see it in the torque. Pretty significant difference. Not that you necessarily can make much use of all that extra tq

[skidd]

The Bang For The Buck argument is valid , but way overated. Sure, you can usually make a bit more for less with a Chevy, but that's not to say can't still make more than enough with any give Ford too.

Remember, the Windsor is an old platform, more inline with the old chevy350 platform. The LS is a significant step up from the old stuff. Not to mention, built in the MILLIONS!! :).

If you have a particular power requirement, and explicit budget, then you pick what fits those 2 things. Chevy or Ford , doesn't matter.

If you have just a budget requirement, then find what ever combo fits your budget, and move on with what ever power it provides.

If you don't care one bit about us Ford purists opinions, again.. build what ever you want.

If however you have even a little hesitation of putting a Chevy in a Ford, then don't do it. Just build the Ford to meet your budget, live with what ever power it creates, and go have some fun!!

FYI, I have a 302 from a 99explorer, making somewhere around 300. I built it out for less than $750. It's plenty of fun, make no mistake.

[J R Jones]

Well you asked....The SBF was continually produced from 1962 - 2001. Chevy produced the traditional SBC from 1955 - 1998. If you count crate engines I think they are both still in production. It's debatable that the LS is really a SBC since it's a totally different platform and none of the parts interchange. But Chevy SBC has certainly been around longer and many more were produced, which explains some of the reason they are less expensive to build.

Ironically I have 3 different Chevy builds in my shop right now that covers the entire history. I have a traditional Gen I 350 build, a gen II LT1 out of a mid 90's corvette, and a gen 5 LT4 supercharged engine (650 HP) , out of a 2021 ZL1 Camaro. We are going to shoot for 750-800 out of this engine. It's destined for a 69 Camaro Indy Pace car.

Bob

When the racing starts the BS stops.
Last July I was at the Elkhart Lake vintage event inspecting in the paddock. A red C4 (Trans Am) Corvette was open revealing an LT engine. It was obviously a significant pro built car.
I asked why the engine was not the ubiquitous LS engine? Somewhat sarcastically the crew chief responded "We need 800 reliable horse power". The car went on to finish second to the (current Trans Am) Lamer's pro built Mustang.
I used to race SBF in SCCA BP and the SBC had power and significant reliability over us. Cost of build was nothing compared to cost of reliability.
jim

[Hoooper]

When the racing starts the BS stops.
Last July I was at the Elkhart Lake vintage event inspecting in the paddock. A red C4 (Trans Am) Corvette was open revealing an LT engine. It was obviously a significant pro built car.
I asked why the engine was not the ubiquitous LS engine? Somewhat sarcastically the crew chief responded "We need 800 reliable horse power". The car went on to finish second to the (current Trans Am) Lamer's pro built Mustang.
I used to race SBF in SCCA BP and the SBC had power and significant reliability over us. Cost of build was nothing compared to cost of reliability.
jim

800 HP all-motor is a big number for any small block, especially outside of the big money series. MAST makes an 850 HP endurance racing LS engine but that is the king of the hill and it runs more for the engine than many of us spend on our entire builds :eek:

[J R Jones]

800 HP all-motor is a big number for any small block, especially outside of the big money series. MAST makes an 850 HP endurance racing LS engine but that is the king of the hill and it runs more for the engine than many of us spend on our entire builds :eek:

Big? Yes indeed, but vintage races are a 20 minute high speed parade. My buddy just ran his first (vintage) season of track days with a 1966 GT350; 347CI and 478hp.
The biggest GT350 engine I Trans Am raced was a Boss 351, likely near 400hp. So my rear gear suggestion was wrong.
We were RPM limited too, the Ford Factory TA cars were running 8000+ RPM. One needs a big budget to support that with a Ford.
jim

[phils88gt]

Here is the motor I am considering: https://smedingperformance.com/collections/ford-engines/products/427-windsor?variant=11963169112100

If you look and their chevy engines sections, they have a 383 with very similar power for almost half the price

Alright now we have something to work with. I can see a reason or two why there is a huge difference in cost.

1) The SBC makes 60ft/lb of torque less and about 10hp less. It is slightly smaller displacement.

2) The SBC is using their own house brand block. They dont specify what the ford is using

3) The SBC is using a house brand crank, I would assume something like RPM but could be Scat. The ford says its internally balanced the Chevy says its not.

4) The SBC has 5140 alloy rods. Which is weaker than the 4340 rod in the ford. ( not that it wont do ).

5) Chevy has hypereutectic pistons, the Ford forged and they are 4.125 big bore to boot.

6) Chevy has 3/8 stud rockers, for 7/16 rockers.

Both engines have a house brand head. No telling what it is. Ide suspect speedmaster, flowtek or whatever the Chinese head of the week is.

So, based on the above it looks like to me the ford is probably a dart or ford racing block, scat crank and rod, with a forged piston. Their own head which is probably Chinese and an edelbrock intake on both. The ford from what I can tell is giving you the regular aftermarket parts. The Chevy is made of a load of Chinese newspaper wrapped parts.

Now before everyone gets all their panties knotted up. The chevy will probably run fine for a long time and the ford will as well. If the ford was made of similar stuff it would be closer in price. When I buy a crankshaft most cranks cost similar of comparable quality. ( unless they are wierd, but SBF,BBF,SBC,BBC are the most common in the universe ) Almost all ford strokers use chevy pattern rods so cost cant be different, most pistons especially custom ones cost the same is the same forging size. The SBC and SBF are the same diameter usually. ( this one isnt ).

So, let me ask you a question to start:

Do you need to regularly make 550-650HP?

No = You do not need an aftermarket block, nor a 4 bolt block. No matter what engine it is.
Yes = The chevy probably isnt the best pick here, not because its a chevy but because it doesnt appear to be made of even the average components. ( I think you are paying a premium for some cat or RPM rods with someones name on the box ).

Are you racing this thing? Are you planning to park the tach at 6500-7500 at Daytona or average 5000+ rpm a lap at a longer track lap after lap?

No = you dont need a ton of expensive hardware for that.
Yes = Neither one of these are the right thing for that. You will break the valve train on both.


My personal opinion actually matches Jeff, you have 7 months to build a motor. If you want to talk about that, I bet we can get the ford in there for way less money and it will be easer to put together. The Chevy does fit, but its simply easier to put the ford in. Your personal reluctance to build a motor leads me to believe that you would not like to fiddle with the chevy or LSx fitment. Not that you cant, its just more effort. Let us know what you decide to do.


Phil

[phils88gt]

"We need 800 reliable horse power".

Well he isn't wrong. The LSx is the current great value green beans of v8s. But to beat the guts out of it at 800hp takes real parts. Just like the LT/G1 GM/SBF would take real parts too. The G1/SBF has many many years of used good racecar parts floating around. The LSx does not have 20+ years of pro-racing parts piled up for you to use. Makes sense to me.

SB2s and Yates fords are cheap compared to full tilt LSx stuff because the used market supports the G1 GM and Ford so well.

[J R Jones]

Well he isn't wrong. The LSx is the current great value green beans of v8s. But to beat the guts out of it at 800hp takes real parts. Just like the LT/G1 GM/SBF would take real parts too. The G1/SBF has many many years of used good racecar parts floating around. The LSx does not have 20+ years of pro-racing parts piled up for you to use. Makes sense to me.

SB2s and Yates fords are cheap compared to full tilt LSx stuff because the used market supports the G1 GM and Ford so well.

There is a distinction here speaking of "20+ years of pro-racing parts piled up for you to use". Yes 20 years of product development. Big power racing engines are not made of old or used parts, well should not be.
A season of club racing was the duty cycle in the seventies.
jim

[phils88gt]

Yes 20 years of product development. Big power racing engines are not made of old or used parts, well should not be.
A season of club racing was the duty cycle in the seventies.
jim

Guess it all depends on what you are doing. It would seem if I had your money I would burn mine. Racing is expensive, and if you can call guys like pro motor with an open check book by all means do so. I have never been able to do that.

Philip

[VKannan]

I agonized over this decision and ultimately ended up with an LS3. Of note, the make of the engine never factored into my decision making process. Ford, Chevy, doesn’t matter to me in a car that is neither Ford nor Chevy. I wanted maximum reliability to be able to drive this car any distance, any time, any elevation. My son and I have a goal of driving the 10 best driving roads in America in this, and I simply don’t trust that we would get there in an old-school style carbureted engine, for every person that has succeeded many, many more have failed. This will likely be a 15k+ miles per year car for us. Heck, we have put significant mileage and done multi-country trips on a Vespa. We like to drive.

My LS3 has a 2 year, 50k mile powertrain warranty and cost $6,000 less than a Coyote all said and done. What ultimately made up my mind was calling factory five directly and asking them how much harder it would be to install the LS3 engine, and hearing that it was apparently an easier install than the Coyote, and fully supported by them at this point in terms of headers, mounts, etc.

Of course this is a highly personal decision so I didn’t make the objective “right” choice, but I hope my rationale is useful in figuring out how much weight you place on all of your factors.

[phils88gt]

. I wanted maximum reliability to be able to drive this car any distance, any time, any elevation. My son and I have a goal of driving the 10 best driving roads in America in this, and I simply don’t trust that we would get there in an old-school style carbureted engine, for every person that has succeeded many, many more have failed.

. What ultimately made up my mind was calling factory five directly and asking them how much harder it would be to install the LS3 engine, and hearing that it was apparently an easier install than the Coyote, and fully supported by them at this point in terms of headers, mounts, etc.




Don't confuse it with being personal. The lsx is a great motor and it's very simular to the 350, 302/351 as well. So if you didn't think some of the most reliable motors mentioned won't make it why would this be different? It is functionally identical. Also who the heck is failing to make a 302 or 350 chevolet run? If they are THEY are failing; not 50 uear old architecture.

As far as ffr support goes they can offer you headers and motor mounts what are your plans for:

Adapting a gm power steering pump to a Ford rack.
Attaching any trans t5, 3550,tko,tkx to it? ( if you made a choice about weight a steel bellhousing isn't going to help )
Hydraulic clutch plans for the pedals as well as the trans?
Are you planning a GM returnless fuel system? How are you adapting it to the mustang fuel tank?

I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm not even saying it's hard but there are decisions that are just simpler with the 302/351.

[VKannan]

Not personal at all and your points are totally valid. Those issues have all been solved, they make kits for the power steering adaptation, my crate package came with a TKX so that was easy, etc. You’re totally correct it’s more complicated than going with the 302 route, but my thinking was that the increased complexity was worth the increased reliability at the discounted price. There’s absolutely no argument that a carbureted engine, or a carburetor style EFI system like the sniper are factually less reliable than modern fuel injection systems. That’s why we’ve moved on. It’s not to say they don’t run, it’s to say they break down more often. I’d rather take more time on the front end sorting out how to put a more reliable system into the car than take more time on the back end trying to fix a car on the fly, sometimes stranded far away from home. But again this is my used case, I think lots of other people are mainly doing local drives in which case having an experience more true to the original makes total sense. It was a trade-off, I would rather have had that experience but I know that I would be less happy with the breakdowns. To each their own.

The coyote is definitely a solid choice, I have nothing against it other than that it’s way more expensive than an LS platform. If that was within my target budget I would have done it.

It’s great that you point all this out though, since the purpose of the thread is to help people weigh the pros and cons, and I didn’t bring up the complexity as a con. Glad you did.


Don't confuse it with being personal. The lsx is a great motor and it's very simular to the 350, 302/351 as well. So if you didn't think some of the most reliable motors mentioned won't make it why would this be different? It is functionally identical. Also who the heck is failing to make a 302 or 350 chevolet run? If they are THEY are failing; not 50 uear old architecture.

As far as ffr support goes they can offer you headers and motor mounts what are your plans for:

Adapting a gm power steering pump to a Ford rack.
Attaching any trans t5, 3550,tko,tkx to it? ( if you made a choice about weight a steel bellhousing isn't going to help )
Hydraulic clutch plans for the pedals as well as the trans?
Are you planning a GM returnless fuel system? How are you adapting it to the mustang fuel tank?

I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm not even saying it's hard but there are decisions that are just simpler with the 302/351.

[GoDadGo]

The Right Choice Is Your Choice Because You Are Building Your Dream!

......................Soon Another Dream Car Will Be Born!

[Jim Frahm]

I have a mk4 complete kit coming in August of this year. I though I had already decided on what I was going to have under the hood. (A 351 Ford Windsor turn key package) I want/wanted a Ford motor so I could be more or less historically accurate. I admit to my complete ignorance, that I never even looked at Chevrolet engines. My buddy turned me on to the chevy 350s and 383 sb which create the same power for almost half the cost. Now, I know I could find used motors, both 350s and 351W with tons of miles for around the same price. But performance crate engines, chevy seems to have more bang for buck value. And didn't Carroll first try an get a GM engine in his original Cobras? That's gotta mean something too right? I'm building my dream car, and I have in my head what I want it to look like, but cost definitely plays a role in the decision making process. What's frustrating, is I have envisioned a smb Ford Windsor in this build for almost 20 years, and now that I have pulled the trigger, I'm realizing there is a small chance that can change. I will say, I am not interested in a modern modular engine. I want a push rod

If you tell me what engine you really want I’ll help you find a builder that can deliver that at a price that is affordable? There’s a local shop that built my LS for my build and yes, they build Ford's too, plus there are independent builders out there.

You have plenty of time before your kit arrives to find an engine.

Happy hunting!
Jim

[DanQ]

A few years ago, I had a 1953 Ford F100 pickup truck with a completely worn out inline six, so it got the works-Mustang II front end, disc brakes, power rack and pinion steering, lowered, and best of all, a Chevy TBI 350 engine and transmission. Yes, there will always be a few at car shows who stick their noses in the air seeing a Chevy in a Ford, but sure did not know what to say when I pointed out all the 1932 Model A's that were at the same shows, and every one has a SBC. To each their own, but the advantages of a Chevy over the Ford, unless you are going for period correct, cannot be denied. My 33 Hot Rod will be powered by a GM LS 5.3.179660