MK III Suspension upgrade recommendations

[Scott L]

I finished #5385 about 12 years ago. While I was very happy with my initial results, after this long I am ready to admit it is not perfect. Over the past ten years this car has won plenty of trophies and attracted plenty of attention. Now I would like it to handle as good as it looks. I would like to feel comfortable going to track days and autoX as well as the occasional street ride or car show. I would err on the side of an aggressive set-up.

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Current state:
Mk III 5385
3-link
FFR LCA’s
“Gold” upper control Arms
Mustang spindles (straight arm)
FFR Bilstein rear shocks (as delivered from FFR)
FFR Koni front shocks (replaced Bilstein from FFR)
Forte front bar
VPM rear bar

Recent changes:
Reset ride height – added about an inch to move to 4.5 inches. This improved the bump steer and overall feel of the car.
Replaced rear control arms. I upgraded to the Breeze rear control arms and the rear end is a lot more planted in the corners.

The plan –
This is where I could use your help.

Whitby SAI kit – Already ordered, seems like an important improvement. Anyone have tips on a MK III install?

Shocks and springs

One option would be to buy the Koni rear set-up from FFR to match my fronts and call it good.
Many have suggested going double adjustable – Viking, QA1, Levy. I would replace all four.
What is your experience? Can you really “dial-in” an autoX set-up, and dial back to a street profile as simply as it appears? How about springs?

I know tires will have a big impact as well. That is a topic for the spring of 2023 when my baby will get a new set of shoes.
I will have the car corner weighted and four wheel aligned when I am done with the upgrades.

Writing this out has made me realize I still have a lot of questions. For those of you that turned your show car into a performance car what was your best upgrade? Thanks so much for your advice.

[Gordon Levy]

To confirm you have SN95 front spindles? Donor or Wilwood pedal assy?
You will need to change springs with any shock package you choose, use good ones. My DA shock packages come with springs.
I would also recommend updating master cylinder and probably brakes if you place on doing track work. I have a lot of different packages we can tailor for how you want to use the car.
As questions, we can help.

[rich grsc]

Find an earlier set of 94sn spindles, the dog leg ones? Will completely eliminate the dumpster issue

[Scott L]

Sn95 spindes, Donor peddle box. Brakes are great as is - 13" front, 11"rear. Moving to better pads, but no complaints. Ran all day at Thompson and for several runs at Loudon without issue. Maybe someday, but brakes are not my current issue. Looking for something that handles the turns smoothly - My suspension does not always feel like its working together.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I’m not a fan of mixing components so at the very least I would get matching Konis in the rear. Next question; how far are you willing to go dollar wise? FFR proprietary spindles will greatly improve geometry even more so than the SN95 with SAI mod. Power steering or manual? Power will let you get more aggressive with caster which in turn will promote camber gain when cornering. Lots more but that’s a start…

Jeff

[Scott L]

Thanks Jeff. Looking at EPS as a next year enhancement. Are the FFR spindles and the SAI mod an either / or - or do I want both? Agree about one brand of shocks and springs. Really wondering about the range of the double adjustables, and whether they can actually do double duty (street / play)?
I will probably spend a little over the next few years - suspension upgrade, tires, eps. I haven't invested much over the last ten years, so easy to justify :-)

[CraigS]

FFR spindles have the SAI built in. I would cancel the SAI mod order and spend that money toward FFR spindles. I don't remember exactly when the frame mount of the front UCAs changed so, if yours are mounted on a horizontal surface, you will want to weld in the upgrade to a vertical surface. This isn't too hard to do and I can provide dimensions if you need them.
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Whether SAI mod or FFR spindles, they both move the upper ball joint outward. So the inner UCA mount needs to move outward also so you can use the same UCAs rather than getting longer sleeves to reach the moved out ball joint. Moving to the vertical surface moves the UCA frame mount down also for better camber change curves. I also don't remember when FFR moved the rack back but that helps too. Your rack should be mounted so that the rubber bellows are almost touching the vertical 2x2 frame tube. My overall point is this. With FFR spindles, modified UCA mount, rack moved back, you now have exactly the same geometry that is current w/ FFR.
I used QA1 double adjustable shocks. YES, yes, yes they can do double duty. I don't think they are the best shocks in the world but they are very reasonably priced for DAs and it is very easy to change settings before and after, or even between AX runs. I throw a beach towel on the macadam to lie down next to each wheel so I can reach in and turn a knob. For the fronts it was lots easier if I turned the wheel all the way left, adjusted, and then all the way right. I ran 800# front springs and 350 rears. The 800s are no problem re; nice ride, but the 350s are a little stiffer than I like for the street. In end Of Oct I usually switched the rears to 250 and switched back next April.
On the VPM rear bar. Mod the pinch bolt for quick adjustment. I found an extra wide washer large enough that a bit of it hung over the side of the aluminum block. Welded it under the bolt head, put it in the block and bent the overhang down so now the bolt won't turn. Now get a 9/16 gear wrench, not the hinged floppy version. Now you lay down next to a rear wheel reach in w/ the wrench, maybe 3 swings and the nut is loose. Slide the block along the bar, rotate it back and forth to find the center again and tighten the nut. Rear bar adjustment 1 minute per side. When you sit after a run and wonder, would a shock or bar adjustment help, if it is quick and easy, you do it. Otherwise you will never know if it is better or worse. If you would like to chat some time, PM me and we can exchange numbers. I am retired and have moved to a more streetable car due to now living where most AXs are a 2 hour drive. But my FFR was definitely a faster AXr than this car is and I do miss it.
Finally, get power steering. It will change your world especially in AX. Manual steering caster is usually about 3deg. PS caster is usually 7 to 8.5deg. In addition to camber gain when turning into a tight AX turn, it also makes the car track much more normally in regular street driving. My goal was always 2 fold. I wanted an FFR that drove about the same as a normal car, a really fast but normal driving car. Example. I tried the 2.5 turns steering rack. It was great for AX but after a summer when I thought surely I would acclimate to it on the street, I never did. So it came out in Sept.

[Scott L]

Thanks Craig - lots to think about. Appreciate the real experience with the DA's.

[Svtjackal]

I have Levy Racing DA coilovers on my MK3.1 that are too stiff for my liking, car was supposed to be a race car originally, looking to trade for a softer set up

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44920-Trade-stock-coilovers-for-Levy-racing-DA-coilovers

[CraigS]

Note that there are diffferent DA Koni sold. One version has two knobs and the other does not. On that one, rebound is easily adjustable but compression requires at least partial disassembly of the coilover.

[Bob Cowan]

Adjustable shocks are great. And terrible. It takes a fair amount of testing to get them where they work the best. You kinda have to know what you're doing, or you're just guessing. For the occasional track day or parking lot day, I would stick with quality non-adjustable shocks. You'll save money, and get consistent results.

As Gordon said, use a quality spring, like Eibach. It really does make a difference.

Before making big changes, do some measuring. Do you actually have bump steer? If you don't have before and after data, you could very easily make things worse.

https://i.imgur.com/hB9OEFg.jpg

One of the best changes I made was converting the front lower control arms to spherical bearings. Huge improvement in ride quality and performance.
https://www.factoryfiveparts.com/16332-spherical-bearing-inserts-for-front-lower-and-2015-irs-control-arms/

https://i.imgur.com/jSE6eDh.jpg

If you're going to be on a road course, you really should upgrade the brakes. They not only will work better, but they will last a lot longer. Yes, kinda expensive. But worth every penny.

https://i.imgur.com/XHFZ1a4.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/t7Ic5sJ.jpg

[Scott L]

I can always count on you guys to blow my budget :-) Like I thought, there is a lot to figure out here. Thanks!

[CraigS]

Scott, if you decide you would like bearings in you LCAs FFR has an easier method.
https://www.factoryfiveparts.com/16332-spherical-bearing-inserts-for-front-lower-and-2015-irs-control-arms/
Knock the plastic bushings out and install these.

[Bill_VA]

I upgraded my suspension about 7 years ago. I would STRONGLY encourage you to consider power steering. Some guys will scoff at the idea and are convinced that they're too manly for PS, but the difference is night and day, and makes the car much more responsive, and a pleasure to drive.

My current setup is:

solid 3-link connections (lower control arms, 3rd link, as well as the banana brace support), all rod ends
front and rear VPM bars
koni red shocks
rod-end conversion for the front lower control arms
delrin bushings for the upper control arms
QA1 racing ball joints (zero force to move them)
Fortes bump steer kit with rod ends for adjustability
Power steering with KRC pump and AGR rack


Here's what I did with my suspension:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?21984-My-10-Year-Suspension-Mods&highlight=suspension

Here's my steering conversion:
https://www.ffcars.com/threads/my-power-steering-conversion.189604/#post-1660847