Stainless Brake Line Flare

[burchfieldb]

I am new at doing brake line flares and wanted to see if these looked right or if something is off? The neck of the flare looks a little off to me. I am using the double annealed Inline Tube SS tubing, cutting with a tubing cutter, lubricating between each step, and using an Eastwood professional tube bender.177302177303

[cob427sc]

My experience with stainless lines is the material is extremely hard, much harder than normal steel tubing and as a result 2 things appear when making flares. First, they never appear as smooth and round as a typical flare, especially when compared with a store bought line. Second, it is not unusual for the flare to sometimes crack as the material expands to make the flare. I have had to several times re-do the flares after assembly as they did not fully seat and when under brake line pressure would show small weepage.

[burchfieldb]

My experience with stainless lines is the material is extremely hard, much harder than normal steel tubing and as a result 2 things appear when making flares. First, they never appear as smooth and round as a typical flare, especially when compared with a store bought line. Second, it is not unusual for the flare to sometimes crack as the material expands to make the flare. I have had to several times re-do the flares after assembly as they did not fully seat and when under brake line pressure would show small weepage.

Thanks for the insight I appreciate it. I did try to form one on a piece of the FFR supplied nicop this morning and got the same deformation.

177379

I think there is something off with the die. Eastwood said not to pull a full stroke on the handle, so I tried that, and got the same results, only with a less formed flare.

177380177381

It looks like the anvil may be going in at an angle and not concentric with the tube.

177382

[edwardb]

I've done three builds using the Inline Tube SS tubing and the Eastwood Professional flaring tool. It takes some practice and finesse. But all were successful with no leaks when completed. Including the Coupe which I still have and have driven three seasons. I agree the neck looks a little asymmetrical and the inside of the flare looks a little rough. Maybe even can see a crack which is the main failure mode I've experienced.

Couple of suggestions based on my experience. If you're using one of those tubing cutters that spins around and you tighten until cut, those are generally not recommended for SS lines. They can work harden the end of the tube and cause problems. I generally use my Portaband (electric hack saw basically) or a Dremel cut off wheel. Go slow and light to not general excess heat. Then I very carefully touch the end to a disk sander with a miter gauge to make sure the end is exactly 90 degrees. Very important. Again, making sure to go slow and easy and not generating excess heat. Then lightly chamfer the outside. I spin it against a file. Also deburr the inside. I typically use an X-Acto knife. Look at it under low magnification to make sure clean and no burrs inside and outside.

Now into the Eastwood flaring tool. Make sure it's exactly flush with the "zero" die head and make sure the clamp is tight. I lube the end of the tube and the dies with brake fluid. First operation 1 die, then operation 2 to complete the double flare. I've found that for operation 2, go lightly. Don't muscle it. Just enough to adequately fold it over. Too much pressure and you'll get cracks about 50% of the time. I typically look at them again under low magnification to make sure no cracks.

Sounds more complicated than it is. I practiced with a bunch of scrap parts to get a feel for it before committing to the actual parts. Good luck. And don't forget the tube nut on the line before the flare. Not that would know anything about that. :rolleyes:

[burchfieldb]

I've done three builds using the Inline Tube SS tubing and the Eastwood Professional flaring tool. It takes some practice and finesse. But all were successful with no leaks when completed. Including the Coupe which I still have and have driven three seasons. I agree the neck looks a little asymmetrical and the inside of the flare looks a little rough. Maybe even can see a crack which is the main failure mode I've experienced.

Couple of suggestions based on my experience. If you're using one of those tubing cutters that spins around and you tighten until cut, those are generally not recommended for SS lines. They can work harden the end of the tube and cause problems. I generally use my Portaband (electric hack saw basically) or a Dremel cut off wheel. Go slow and light to not general excess heat. Then I very carefully touch the end to a disk sander with a miter gauge to make sure the end is exactly 90 degrees. Very important. Again, making sure to go slow and easy and not generating excess heat. Then lightly chamfer the outside. I spin it against a file. Also deburr the inside. I typically use an X-Acto knife. Look at it under low magnification to make sure clean and no burrs inside and outside.

Now into the Eastwood flaring tool. Make sure it's exactly flush with the "zero" die head and make sure the clamp is tight. I lube the end of the tube and the dies with brake fluid. First operation 1 die, then operation 2 to complete the double flare. I've found that for operation 2, go lightly. Don't muscle it. Just enough to adequately fold it over. Too much pressure and you'll get cracks about 50% of the time. I typically look at them again under low magnification to make sure no cracks.

Sounds more complicated than it is. I practiced with a bunch of scrap parts to get a feel for it before committing to the actual parts. Good luck. And don't forget the tube nut on the line before the flare. Not that would know anything about that. :rolleyes:

Thanks Paul. I will try these suggestions and see what I get. The thing that was most concerning was I got the same results with the nicop FFR supplied material. Maybe it is the tubing cutter, I will try some other options.

[edwardb]

Strange. I've used mine for SS as mentioned and also for steel lines. Haven't tried nicop. Haven't seen it go slightly off center like that. I'm not positive it still wouldn't seal. These kind of joints conform to each other somewhat when tightened. And I've seen some factory flares that looked pretty narly and still sealed OK. But I agree that's a bit concerning.

[burchfieldb]

Strange. I've used mine for SS as mentioned and also for steel lines. Haven't tried nicop. Haven't seen it go slightly off center like that. I'm not positive it still wouldn't seal. These kind of joints conform to each other somewhat when tightened. And I've seen some factory flares that looked pretty narly and still sealed OK. But I agree that's a bit concerning.

So I tried the cutoff wheel method and got the same results. I then decide to try 3/8 SS line to see if it was the die and got the same results. I then took a look at the factory test piece that came in the kit and it seems to have the same offset. Maybe it would seal? I am pretty far away from being able to pressurize the system, since my IRS hardware is on backorder. FFR is in the process of trying to find a new vendor for hardware, so I am not sure how long it will be. Since I work in the engineering/product development field, I gave them some contacts, to try and help out. I will see what Eastwood says. Thanks for the help.

3/8 SS
177403

Eastwood Factory Steel Test
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[Papa]

I had really good results 99% of the time with the NiCop lines I used. This was the very first practice fair I made:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84535&d=1524420303

I did have a couple that came out deformed, but I think that was due to over doing the pressure on one or both stages of the flairing process.

[burchfieldb]

Looks like Eastwood is going to ship me a new set of dies and anvil to see if it corrects the problem. Thanks everyone for the feedback. Hopefully this corrects the issue.

[Mastertech5]

If you can afford it or rent one, hydraulic flare tools are the way to go. They are much more precise and you clamp the tubing at the end of the die opening so there is no excess tubing in the flare or lack of. You definitely need to make the tubing end at 90 deg. and no burrs as edwardb stated. The dies on the typical flare tools tend to not go down evenly when tightening them down to form the fold over in the first step. They are usually ok in step 2 as it is held true from step 1.

[Skuzzy]

If you are using NiCopp tubing, you do not need an expensive flaring tool. The tool I use is fool proof. You just need to do proper prep, as with all tubing before double flaring it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XPRVCPV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Looks too simple to work, but it really does work. A very well engineered tool.

[burchfieldb]

If you can afford it or rent one, hydraulic flare tools are the way to go. They are much more precise and you clamp the tubing at the end of the die opening so there is no excess tubing in the flare or lack of. You definitely need to make the tubing end at 90 deg. and no burrs as edwardb stated. The dies on the typical flare tools tend to not go down evenly when tightening them down to form the fold over in the first step. They are usually ok in step 2 as it is held true from step 1.

Thanks for the advice. I will give the new dies and anvil from Eastwood a chance and if that does not work, switch to the hydraulic one. It really is not that much more in the grand scheme of this project.

[burchfieldb]

I thought I would close the loop on this thread for what ended up working for me. I tried multiple different tools, talked with an old timer to see what he does, and lots of trial and error. I ended up going with AN tube nut/sleeves and using a Rigid flaring tool. It is really nice, well made, and rolls the edges with an offset anvil. I ended up using a cutoff wheel on an angle grinder to cut the tube. I put the face of the wheel on a vee block to get it square, while holding the vee block in a vice. I then used a file to dress the end of it, while it is still clamped in the block. To finish it off, I add a chamfer to the inner and outer edges. Like many have said, the key is to take it slow and make the end as smooth as possible.
180870
180871

[MSumners]

Thanks for the insight I appreciate it. I did try to form one on a piece of the FFR supplied nicop this morning and got the same deformation.

177379

I think there is something off with the die. Eastwood said not to pull a full stroke on the handle, so I tried that, and got the same results, only with a less formed flare.

177380177381

It looks like the anvil may be going in at an angle and not concentric with the tube.

177382

When I was practicing with the same Eastwood system with stainless I was noticing the same intermittent skewed flare initially. For me the problem was the rotating piece wasn’t fully seated. Did you fully press it down until it firmly clicked in place?

[burchfieldb]

Yeah, I took it apart and put it back together a couple of times. Eastwood tech support said either the die or anvil was bad. Even the sample piece included from the factory was off.

[mikeinatlanta]

I thought I would close the loop on this thread for what ended up working for me. I tried multiple different tools, talked with an old timer to see what he does, and lots of trial and error. I ended up going with AN tube nut/sleeves and using a Rigid flaring tool. It is really nice, well made, and rolls the edges with an offset anvil. I ended up using a cutoff wheel on an angle grinder to cut the tube. I put the face of the wheel on a vee block to get it square, while holding the vee block in a vice. I then used a file to dress the end of it, while it is still clamped in the block. To finish it off, I add a chamfer to the inner and outer edges. Like many have said, the key is to take it slow and make the end as smooth as possible.
180870
180871

Wise choice. Unfortunately, the Eastwood tool is a "just good enough" tool. Something many don't consider is that the double flare many use in brake lines isn't really meant for repeated cycles of removal and assembly. Switching to AN and using the best tool (for the money) on the market is a huge upgrade and a minimal increased cost. If you want to feel even better about your choice, look at the ends (sealing surface) of a flare sample from each tool under at least 15X magnification. The finish difference is dramatic.

I've used my Rigid on large aircraft tube flares when the hydraulic shop's tool couldn't quite make a flare good enough for a tough situation.