POL stuff

[MB750]

At first I thought it was frustrating to have to wait for certain items in order to proceed. For instance, one of the items on my POL list is the front brake rotors and the caliper pins. That was my next step, so I just skipped it and started on the rear axle.

Then today I got two FFR boxes. Low and behold, caliper pins! (and some other stuff, like my gauges)

I also realized that the POL list is going to be like a mini Christmas every time something comes in! :D

Merry Christmas everyone!!!

[mladen]

You're doing well by moving along. There are many parts of the build that aren't cross dependent. I wasted a lot of time initially by doing that, basically expecting to work linearly through the manual.

Merry Christmas!

[Tbev]

Merry Christmas,
My POL list took over 10 months to receive everything and as annoying as that was it didn't slow my build down as there was always something else I could work on, and I had the same feeling every time one of those boxes arrived, it feels like Christmas!
Enjoy your build!

[Mike.Bray]

About half of my POL list was fasteners so I wasn't going to let that slow me down. The only time I really got held up was with the gas tank & cover. I sent FFR an email and come to find out they had them in stock and were able to ship one right out to me. To this day I wonder how long it would have taken if I had not inquired.

What I think FFR does is this. Let's say they just received a shipment of gas tanks. They first fill new orders with the shipment and if any are left after they fill POL orders. So someone receives a new kit complete with a gas tank while you've been, and still are, waiting for months on one. By doing this they don't create a second POL item and thus an additional freight charge. Smart from a business point of view, not so great from a customer service side. I think FFR has a good product at a fair price but the long lead times and long POL/MIK lists are giving them a bad name.

I'm going to count myself lucky as after 7 months I'm down to my last POL item.

[MB750]

About half of my POL list was fasteners so I wasn't going to let that slow me down. The only time I really got held up was with the gas tank & cover. I sent FFR an email and come to find out they had them in stock and were able to ship one right out to me. To this day I wonder how long it would have taken if I had not inquired.

What I think FFR does is this. Let's say they just received a shipment of gas tanks. They first fill new orders with the shipment and if any are left after they fill POL orders. So someone receives a new kit complete with a gas tank while you've been, and still are, waiting for months on one. By doing this they don't create a second POL item and thus an additional freight charge. Smart from a business point of view, not so great from a customer service side. I think FFR has a good product at a fair price but the long lead times and long POL/MIK lists are giving them a bad name.

I'm going to count myself lucky as after 7 months I'm down to my last POL item.

That's good to know Mike. I'll be a patient person, but if I'm down to an item on POL or MIK and production ceases, I'll be sending emails.

[Mike.Bray]

That's good to know Mike. I'll be a patient person, but if I'm down to an item on POL or MIK and production ceases, I'll be sending emails.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease!

[csmith]

That's good to know Mike. I'll be a patient person, but if I'm down to an item on POL or MIK and production ceases, I'll be sending emails.

I’m finding myself in this boat right now. Right now I’m missing all four shocks and the IRS parts other than the differential and spindles. I want to proceed, but I feel like anywhere else is blocked by those two :( just got started too

[Dgc333]

I got my Speedstar kit Aug 5th and started getting the back ordered parts the following week and received a box every week up to the beginning of Nov. There are only two parts left (a roll of weather strip and seat harness) from the POL back ordered items.

BUT, there was as many parts that I should have gotten that were not on the POL and were not on any of the packing lists. These parts will never come by sitting and waiting patiently, you need to contact them. The first list I sent them they sent me an order within a day and I started getting the parts within a couple of weeks. The second list they acknowledged that I am owed them but after two weeks had not gotten any evidence they were coming. I live close by so I drove over to FFR and got a chance to vent to Dave Smith. He looked over my list and declared they had them in stock and sent one of the guys to the warehouse to pull them. 20 minutes later I went home with 4 boxes of parts with only the two previously mentioned parts still on back order.

My point is the squeaky wheel definitely gets the grease.

[Malibu46pt]

I agree about being the squeaky wheel.Had similar issues and to send my list several times. I continue to find parts I need . It is difficult to know,you are missing something until you need it. I have had to purchase several bolts vs waiting on FFR. Very disappointed in what should be a very simple maple inventory management and fulfillment issue. Once FFR acknowledges your parts shortage they seem to take care of it. The difficulty is getting them to reply. Seems to be no choice but to keep hounding them.

[Mike.Bray]

I live close by so I drove over to FFR and got a chance to vent to Dave Smith.

I would have done that if I could! The biggest issue/concern I had was the pin drive front suspension I ordered. They said it was no longer available, then Dave Smith in one of his videos said it could be ordered so I did. But no one knew the part number. I finally tracked the P/N down in an old order form I had from a few years ago. Even with this no one seemed to know what it was or could even supply a BOM. Finally in desperation I reached out to FFR through Facebook and that broke things loose. Dave Lindsey watches their FB page and within a few days he had everything sorted for me. I find it sad and more than a little concerning that they are too busy to answer the phone and the only way I got resolution was through FB. I also honestly feel if I had not been so on top of this I would still be waiting on parts.

[J R Jones]

The benefit of procrastination is sometimes the problem goes away.

[Mike.Bray]

The benefit of procrastination is sometimes the problem goes away.

My experience has been procrastinating usually make the problem bigger.

[MB750]

BUT, there was as many parts that I should have gotten that were not on the POL and were not on any of the packing lists.




Like a driveshaft?!?!? I can't believe this integral item to the kit wasn't on my POL, nor was it in any packing lists. Just vaporware... Has this happened to anyone else?

[Dgc333]

Like a driveshaft?!?!? I can't believe this integral item to the kit wasn't on my POL, nor was it in any packing lists. Just vaporware... Has this happened to anyone else?

I got the drive shaft but didn't get the exhaust and wasn't on my POL or any packing lists. I ordered the three link suspension and didn't get the banana bracket which was also not on the POL or any packing lists. I also ordered the optional side windows and got everything but the glass that also wasn't on the POL or packing list.

[dallas_289]

Like a driveshaft?!?!? I can't believe this integral item to the kit wasn't on my POL, nor was it in any packing lists. Just vaporware... Has this happened to anyone else?

It happened to me as well, delivered 11/27/22 and I was missing a slew on integral items not on inventory or POL. I had to compare other member’s inventory posts/lists to discern what was missing (outside the obvious). I’m missing parts that’s keeping me from really getting to dive in (front LCAs, spindles, fuel tank straps, etc.). On top of wrong parts from my order options, it’s been a bit frustrating- but hoping FFR makes it right.

I spoke with FFR on 12/8 and they said they will get the missing inventory/wrong parts addressed and shipped soon, but since I’ve just been receiving POL parts. Hoping to see new parts arrive early next year, or squeaky wheel time for me as well. Obviously holiday time and year end hits hard, so no complaints here yet.

Really enjoying my build so far, and totally understand switching to a new inventory system has some teething to do - more just sharing my experience so far. Hoping time will tell positively on my experience.

[MB750]

I just don't understand how your kit inventory shows the driveshaft, when mine's MIA everywhere. It's not like the bulk of the kit isn't something that everyone who buys a Roadster kit gets automatically. Why would one person's items show up on a list when another's doesn't?

My exhaust was POL, but it must have came in before shipping because I got it. The funny thing was I had two Box 32's, the one with the exhaust had a hand written label saying it was box 32, the other had the printed label.

[mladen]

I don't have it on my inventory list either. Only driveshaft related things there is the 15946 - Automatic Driveshaft Adapter

[John.Gallegos415]

I received my complete kit in October with 4 pages of POL items. FFR has been pretty good about sending items and to date, I have just 6 items remaining on the POL list . Not bad I think. Like others, I work on a section in the build manual until I get to a missing part, then I move on to the next section. My build hasn't been hampered yet. I have also experienced working on a section and realizing that a needed part is not available and not on the inventory or POL list. So far I've had to contacted FFR about the door latch striker extensions, hard line to flexible line brake adapters for the rears brakes and rear braided SS flexible brake lines. It is obvious that I need these items but that thought did not cross my mind at the time when I was doing my initial inventory. They are great at taking care of my requests.

[MB750]

I don't have it on my inventory list either. Only driveshaft related things there is the 15946 - Automatic Driveshaft Adapter

Did you physically receive your driveshaft? I'm guessing no, but please confirm. This tells me there might be an issue with FFR's new parts system somehow dropping the driveshaft off multiple orders. Hopefully this didn't lead to a shortage of driveshafts over the last few months. These systems automatically monitor inventory and will trigger orders of things that are low. If this system didn't see any need for driveshafts, than it wouldn't order any.

[JJK]

My kit arrived 11/01/2022 and it had the driveshaft included. Plenty of things not included that I am still waiting on, but the driveshaft was there. Still missing IRS fasteners, power steering rack parts, brakes from Wilwood, and at least a dozen or more other odds and ends.

[mladen]

That is a great question. It's possible I'm missing it, and maybe other items. I never questioned the packing list so it's possible things might be missing. Looking at photos of what they might look like, it's possible I didn't get one :/ I'll go through all the remaining boxes again to check.

I'm looking for something that looks like this (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/str-u1668?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAiAzKqdBhAnEiwAePEjkp6W6A9ia1XjXJ1Mhm8t xI6c7RWBIg6ADpg5r2AwHsWkqG-fLj7iqhoC_ZIQAvD_BwE) (not exactly that model of course)?

[MB750]

That is a great question. It's possible I'm missing it, and maybe other items. I never questioned the packing list so it's possible things might be missing. Looking at photos of what they might look like, it's possible I didn't get one :/ I'll go through all the remaining boxes again to check.

I'm looking for something that looks like this (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/str-u1668?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAiAzKqdBhAnEiwAePEjkp6W6A9ia1XjXJ1Mhm8t xI6c7RWBIg6ADpg5r2AwHsWkqG-fLj7iqhoC_ZIQAvD_BwE) (not exactly that model of course)?

It looks exactly like this:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177239&d=1672166672

That part you're referencing, the Automatic Driveshaft Adapter, probably gets swapped out with the one that comes on the driveshaft from FFR.

[mladen]

I just went through my remaining parts boxes and I did not find a driveshaft there. I'll reach out to FFR. This is a bit concerning if items are not on the inventory list. Not sure I'm supposed to know if I'm missing something or not.

EDIT: Heard back from FFR and they confirmed that a packlist was not printed out for #16038. They're processing now to send me one, and I'm paying for shipping since it's been a year and a half since my order and I'm noticing this just now :)

[csmith]

I just went through my remaining parts boxes and I did not find a driveshaft there. I'll reach out to FFR. This is a bit concerning if items are not on the inventory list. Not sure I'm supposed to know if I'm missing something or not.

EDIT: Heard back from FFR and they confirmed that a packlist was not printed out for #16038. They're processing now to send me one, and I'm paying for shipping since it's been a year and a half since my order and I'm noticing this just now :)

That hardly seems fair. You’re supposed to verify the included parts on the inventory list are included. How on earth are you to know every part required that might not have been printed on the inventory? Should we be saying we’re missing a few bars of gold just in case?

[MB750]

That hardly seems fair. You’re supposed to verify the included parts on the inventory list are included. How on earth are you to know every part required that might not have been printed on the inventory? Should we be saying we’re missing a few bars of gold just in case?

That was exactly my beef in another recent thread about this. I just can't understand how something in the form of a "kit" using inventory software can have arbitrary items just fall off. Inventory systems are designed to pull in the exact same items that a kit is comprised of. You change something on a kit (IRS from solid axle, for instance) and all the downstream parts for IRS are swapped in for the solid axle parts.

[mladen]

Yeah, it's tough, especially if you've never done this before. For me, going through the inventory was mostly a guessing game and trying to grok if a part on that list (that I have no idea what it looks like) is in the box or not. A lot of times I went by item count. Even broke out the calipers to measure various nuts and bolts. But mistakes happen, and as a software engineer I can definitely say no software is perfect either :D

[Dgc333]

That was exactly my beef in another recent thread about this. I just can't understand how something in the form of a "kit" using inventory software can have arbitrary items just fall off. Inventory systems are designed to pull in the exact same items that a kit is comprised of. You change something on a kit (IRS from solid axle, for instance) and all the downstream parts for IRS are swapped in for the solid axle parts.

Many of the items I was missing were not on the bill of material at all so there is no chance that you would get the parts unless the person doing the kitting knew that it should be there and manually added it. The example of the missing drive shaft on some kits and not on others can be explained by the fact that there are different drive shafts for different engine/tranny/rear end combinations. It's on one BOM and not on another. There were other parts that were on the BOM and fell off the pick list.

Last September FFR transitioned to a new MRP system that they are looking to solve their inventory issues but it looks like a lot of the issues got copied over from the old system to the new one.

[Mike.Bray]

Here's my main concern/issue with the POL stuff from FFR. I know from first hand experience that managing global supply isn't easy. So the fact that kits ship with a few parts on backorder is understandable and I accept that. From what I've read I was extremely lucky in that my POL list was less than a page long and about half of those items were fasteners. Common fasteners that I was easily able to source from Ace Hardware or McMaster Carr. There is zero excuse for not having all of the required fasteners included in the kit shipment. Zero.

The other issue I have is FFR does not ship POL items by date of order. By that I mean I know for a fact kits have been recently received complete with parts that I have been waiting on for over 6 months. Why did they jump to the head of the line? For example, if they are out of power steering racks and get a shipment in the oldest outstanding orders need to be filled before new kits. But that's not what FFR does, they fill the kits first and then if any are left they fill POL orders. Usually after being nudged. This is fundamentally wrong.

I like FFR and so far have enjoyed building my kit. The design is good as is the quality. After sale support could be better though.

[mladen]

The other issue I have is FFR does not ship POL items by date of order. By that I mean I know for a fact kits have been recently received complete with parts that I have been waiting on for over 6 months. Why did they jump to the head of the line? For example, if they are out of power steering racks and get a shipment in the oldest outstanding orders need to be filled before new kits. But that's not what FFR does, they fill the kits first and then if any are left they fill POL orders. Usually after being nudged. This is fundamentally wrong.


My guess, and not commenting on wether it's right or not, is that this is done because otherwise it would cascade potentially huge shipping costs to FFR is so. For example, if they receive 10 sets of Halibrand wheels and instead of freight them with kits (that's already paid) but instead ship them via FedEx to 10 POLs, that means that they will have to ship 10 more eventually to the kits that went out without them. This can potentially go ad infinitum depending on the pace of orders and parts coming in where they'd end up sippging a huge chunk of the total order via FedEx.

[Mike.Bray]

My guess, and not commenting on wether it's right or not, is that this is done because otherwise it would cascade potentially huge shipping costs to FFR is so. For example, if they receive 10 sets of Halibrand wheels and instead of freight them with kits (that's already paid) but instead ship them via FedEx to 10 POLs, that means that they will have to ship 10 more eventually to the kits that went out without them. This can potentially go ad infinitum depending on the pace of orders and parts coming in where they'd end up sippging a huge chunk of the total order via FedEx.

Agree 100%, I've always believe this is what they do. Smart business decision but very poor customer service. I guess you can do this when you know the huge majority of your customers are never going to buy another kit from you.

[Dgc333]

My guess, and not commenting on wether it's right or not, is that this is done because otherwise it would cascade potentially huge shipping costs to FFR is so. For example, if they receive 10 sets of Halibrand wheels and instead of freight them with kits (that's already paid) but instead ship them via FedEx to 10 POLs, that means that they will have to ship 10 more eventually to the kits that went out without them. This can potentially go ad infinitum depending on the pace of orders and parts coming in where they'd end up sippging a huge chunk of the total order via FedEx.

I don't think they pay attention to shipping costs very much. I live close by and have told them many times to call me and I will pick the parts up. Only the first order of POL parts did they let me know. Most often I get the parts by FEDEX and there is a note on the packing list to call customer for local pick up.

I know parts are coming when I get a text from FEDEX that they are picking up in Wareham. I can guess by the weight and size of the box what it might be but no notification from FFR.

[Kbl7td]

As someone who doesn’t work in this field. Does FFR just constantly eat these shopping costs? Has to get expensive.

[Mike.Bray]

As someone who doesn’t work in this field. Does FFR just constantly eat these shopping costs? Has to get expensive.

It does get expensive, that's why they handle the POL items to try and save a little.

[MB750]

My guess, and not commenting on wether it's right or not, is that this is done because otherwise it would cascade potentially huge shipping costs to FFR is so. For example, if they receive 10 sets of Halibrand wheels and instead of freight them with kits (that's already paid) but instead ship them via FedEx to 10 POLs, that means that they will have to ship 10 more eventually to the kits that went out without them. This can potentially go ad infinitum depending on the pace of orders and parts coming in where they'd end up sippging a huge chunk of the total order via FedEx.

I see your point, and it does make financial sense to FFR. My beef is why their fancy new inventory system (or the old one for that matter) can't see when 40 Halibrand wheels are needed in future orders (for example) and automatically trigger an order for more wheels 6 months before they're actually needed?

This is what inventory systems are designed to do. I've worked in manufacturing. The only time there's an issue with this system is if the supplier has an issue, and usually that rolls up under a raw material shortage.

[Mad Dog]

Hi Everyone - I have been talking with Mladen who received his kit in summer 2021 to help him get his driveshaft. As noted on our Terms & Conditions (https://www.factoryfive.com/terms-conditions/):

Missing/Backordered Parts
Please inspect the contents of your shipment carefully. Any parts noted as missing from a shipment or incorrectly packed should be communicated immediately by calling 508-291-3443. Factory Five will help to identify and locate or replace the missing item/s as necessary. Parts noted as missing beyond 45 days after the delivery date must be purchased at the current retail price.

When Mladen contacted us the other day saying he was missing his driveshaft, we reviewed his POL and MIK orders that were fulfilled followed by checking his kit pack. We noticed the error with his driveshaft, and agreed to write-up a new MIK order for him so he would not have to pay for the driveshaft as mentioned in the above section of our Terms and Conditions. We agreed he would pay the shipping cost as we both thought that was fair considering how it is past the 45 day period to report missing parts.

Our warehouse, shipping, and purchasing teams are working hard to help fulfill all of our customer's orders and get parts in stock as quickly as possible. If anyone has questions on POL or MIK items, please contact us via phone or email (https://www.factoryfive.com/contact/), and one of our team members will help you.

[Mike.Bray]

Terms and conditions are one thing, customer service is another. Factory Five should own this as it is their error. Making the customer pay the freight is absurd. I would get fired if I tried that with a customer.

[MB750]

I realize it's on us to scour everything delivered in comparison to everything on the inventory lists, POL, and what's MIK, and let you know in 45 days. But what's the "Terms and Conditions" when the original order confirmation from when I paid for my kit says a driveshaft is included but is never heard from again?

If I'm comparing parts to paperwork, and it doesn't show up on either even though I paid for it, who's fault is that? And why does that even roll up under a statute of limitations?

[mladen]

Those are valid points. In my case specifically, I was ok with this for two reasons. First, shipping was $20. Second, more importantly, is that I've noticed some discrepancies quite out of that 45-day window and FFR made it right immediately without question at their cost.

[danmas]

Hmmm. I am dumping about $25K into this kit to FFR. I am dumping another $25K into it when I get an engine/tranny and probably another $10K into it when I have it painted. It strikes me as a little off putting to see the message from Factory Five be "our terms are 45 days for you to catch our mistake". I agree that $20 aint much. It wouldn't bother me at all. It would totally bother me to have someone quote a policy that exists for the benefit of FFR and not the customer. Again, it is a policy that says if you don't catch our mistake you can suck lemons. Whether they enforce that or not is a different question, but, I think I agree with Mike Bray.