Seat heater wiring - Only high or only low dilemma

[mladen]

I have the cobra heat seat heaters which I'm planning to use. They come with an On-Off-On switch, so you can choose between a high and low setting. Now, I'm trying to use Custom Billet Buttons (https://www.custombilletbuttons.com/product/19mm-custom-laser-etched-buttons/) in my build, but they only have regular on-off switches (either momentary or latching) but have an option that allows you to wire them in a way to choose Red, Blue, or Green color for the button when activated. I have never tried these heaters and I don't know what the difference is between high and low, so my options seem to be:

1. Use original switches which are cheap black plastic, vs the stainless switches I'll have otherwise
2. Use the custom button but have it wired to only do low or only high. This limits functionality, and if I stick to High it could be too warm so I might have to keep turning it on and off manually to not fry my *** :)
3. Find a different button maker that makes the same look but that does what I need - Doubt I'd be able to find that
4. Get a fancy-looking billet toggle switch. It would look better, but still different than the rest. Plus I'd have to wire in indicator lights
5. Use two switches in a row, one for on-off and the other to toggle between high and low. This would work, but kinda crappy user experience\
6. Do some fancy wiring (beyond my current skills) with momentary buttons that would cycle between off-low-high states, and also wires in the LED pins in such a way that the light is off for off, blue for low and red for high
7. Something else I'm not aware of?

[steno]

I mounted my switches on the front of the seat mount. Easy to get to and out of sight. Just fed 12volt s and tucked everything else under the seat.

[mladen]

That's a good option too for the looks. I was hoping to keep it on the dash, since I have the air inlet and fans, thought it would have made a nice grouping to keep the air/heat related things together

[JeffP]

You'll need a SPDT (single pole, double throw) which is a tough one to find. I'm using similar buttons in my build, but for the seat heaters I just kept the oem ones. They get burried in the carpet so not that visible anyway. They are a standard rocker style switch easily found on amazon (i had to replace one).

Other than doing two switches, or getting some sort of controller (short press, double press, etc) might be out of luck. This would dress it up a little, but not much: https://a.co/d/737hDYN

wiring diagram for those generic heaters seems pretty basic:
https://www.defendersource.com/attachments/heated-seats-wiring-diagram-png.469361/

[RJD]

I looked for other switches as well but ended up using the OEM ones. Here's how they look in the dash for reference. As for the high only option - the seat gets pretty toasty. I find myself mostly using the low setting.

176844

[JeffP]

Here are mine down in the carpet:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176845&d=1671226070

[mladen]

This post explains a similar problem (https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/momentary-pushbutton-to-3-way-toggle.74373/), but the solution is an integrated circuit. I don't mind if the solutions is not super cheap, but I'd like to avoid having to put an arduino behind my dash just for this :D

[i.e.427]

Not a fan of ANY switches on the dash. If you look at some of our build we do everything we can to eliminate clutter on the dash. We typically find a spot that is easily accessible but hidden for the seat heat switches. Most current build has them mounted into our under dash panels. The under dash panels also help to stiffen the bottom of the dash.

Frank

[John Ibele]

Personally, I’d keep ‘em if I were in your shoes. I don’t think the switches are cheap, they looked like a reasonable quality piece to me, just not ‘vintage’ looking enough for what I wanted. I went with your option 4, but with two more of the FFR toggles I was already using, so they matched. Doing that extra work for something that doesn’t quite match wouldn’t thrill me either.

So if you keep them but don’t want the look, how about mounting them on the bottom lip of the dash? They wouldn’t be visible and therefore wouldn’t make use of the embedded indicator lights, but you don’t really need them anyway.

[Papa]

I'm another one that prefers a minimalist dash. I installed the seat heater switches in the trans tunnel cover. They are good quality (OEM-like) and do exactly what they are supposed to do.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95881&d=1540080976

[mladen]

I spent some time looking at the wiring for the heaters and it's not what I expected it to be in terms of how it's wired. The heating elements have only two wires leading to them, so there isn't a separate circuit for high or low setting. What they do is, actually very neat trick of having two pads, is that they use a relay to either connect them in series (for low setting) or in parallel (for high). That means that instead of the usual load of 4ohm per pad, when they are wired in series the load is 8ohm, so it will draw half the current it would if they were wired in parallel, so half the power. Neat. Doesn't solve my problem though, but at least I understand it better :D Here are some photos of the wiring and the diagram I found. Do notice that weird fuse holder that's just short-circuited. Not what that's for, both heater sets have them and it's not mentioned in the manual :D

176849176850176851176852176853

I get the idea around the clean dashboard approach, but I'm leaning more to usability. If people are meant to use them, I don't want to hide them. But who knows, maybe I'll change my mind for the second build (hope my wife isn't on this forum :D ). I have the original wiring as a fallback, but I'll spend a bit more time seeing if I can solve this another way and use the billet switches. Given it's just a resisting load, I could technically send them either 6v or 12v and leave them always wired in parallel (which doesn't solve the switching problem)

[JohnK]

Just to give you more photos to peruse, here are mine on the dash. I also wasn't a fan of the look of the switches initially, and spent some time looking into other options including ways to use real Lucas switches so they'd blend in a bit better. After not finding suitable alternative switches I just resigned myself to using the current ones. I do think that because they're small and black, they are not very noticeable on the dash, but if they really bother you then putting them on the under dash filler panel is the best way to go, IMO.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173204&d=1664586893

[mladen]

Yeah, I'd definitely need to hide them if I stick with them, since I'm planning on going with a beige/cream interior and dash :)

[JeffP]

Do notice that weird fuse holder that's just short-circuited. Not what that's for, both heater sets have them and it's not mentioned in the manual :D


Its just an inline fuse to put between the battery and the switch. cut the wire in half and wire it in.

[facultyofmusic]

Black/chrome switches on brown doesn't look too bad if I may say so myself. The original cobras had a ton of switches on it. It's a part of the charm to some (including me)

176874

[toadster]

here's one from DelCity https://www.delcity.net/store/LED-Tipped---Bat-Handle/p_822948.h_822949.r_IF1003?mkwid=&crid=&mp_kw=&mp_mt=&gclid=CjwKCAiA7vWcBhBUEiwAXieItvfQHERyMyQgEyVZBbl9 OHppAPxMHjMbwB-WPwxcEY29bYHkxGLL8RoCOr4QAvD_BwE

[BrewCityCobra]

Yeah, I'd definitely need to hide them if I stick with them, since I'm planning on going with a beige/cream interior and dash :)

As another builder who isn't crazy with incorporating the provided toggles into the dash. Once concept I considered was hiding the toggles on the underside of the dash and just placing an LED someplace that is visible. That way you can make the LED match the other indicators on the dash for less visual intrusion. I haven't found an appropriate part yet, but a multi-color LED would even let you have one color for high mode, another color for low mode, and off when the system isn't working.

I'm curious to see what you end up doing as I'm also working on this problem at the moment.

Good luck!

[thebicman]

I made a full length under dash filler panel and mounted my switches to that. Easily accessible but out of site.

[mladen]

I decided to give up on the manual electronic approach and go with a programmable microcontroller. Software is what I know, so this will be a lot easier. Picked up a Raspberry Pi Pico (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08TQSDP28/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1) on Amazon for $8.

I already mapped out the logic for switching between the three states for the circuit. Adding the changing button LED color will be easy too.

176895

What will be more complicated is reworking how the circuit is wired for low and high. Original has it going through the switch for high, but there's no way Pico will handle that much current, so I need to figure out how to rewire that.

There's also some risk that the Pico gets fried because of the variations that the starter and alternator can introduce. It's not rated for automotive. But I'm hoping this adapter (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B92Y3ML1/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_1?smid=A35IIP1M375GD9&psc=1) will be able to iron it out enough.

I'll keep posting the progress.

[narly1]

How about some kind of compartment in the tunnel, concealed under a door that could then be covered with matching material?

Earl

[steno]

I’ve seen switches hidden in the original-type ashtray that was on the tunnel.

[Mike.Bray]

I kept it simple with pushbuttons on the dash and the heaters only run on high.

Those of you that drive a lot, do you ever run your seat heaters on low?

[Papa]

I use both high and low on mine, but if it only had high, I'd just turn the heaters on and off.

[zee]

I've seen a builder (can't remember where) who put the switch close to the corner on the dash and high enough up that it was hidden behind the cowl of the body.

[mladen]

I've made some progress with the circuit design.

176930

I've introduced relays that will be controlled by Pico. The image represents the circuit for just one heater, so everything will be doubled for both. The relay module I got is this (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/sb-components-ltd/SKU21178/16836956), which conveniently has 4 relays, just as I need. It also seats the Pico in it, so no messy wiring, and it will be easier to package into a box at the end. One note on it is that the relays are rated for 10 amps, which also is how much the heaters need, so cutting it close there, not sure if they could burn out. The solution would be simple though, simply inline a stronger relay controlled by these relays.

In the image, the two LEDs above and below the relays represent the LED of the custom billet button, blue will be used for Low, and red for High setting. LEDs in the switch have a common positive 12v and you're supposed to ground the pin for the color you want lighted, so I'm having the relays switch the ground. Another note here is that LED pins should be wired in parallel with whatever the switch is controlling to avoid overcurrent and burning them out.

The software is unchanged so far, but it will be once I add another set of components.

[John Ibele]

I decided to give up on the manual electronic approach and go with a programmable microcontroller. Software is what I know, so this will be a lot easier. Picked up a Raspberry Pi Pico (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B08TQSDP28/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1) on Amazon for $8.

I already mapped out the logic for switching between the three states for the circuit. Adding the changing button LED color will be easy too.

176895

What will be more complicated is reworking how the circuit is wired for low and high. Original has it going through the switch for high, but there's no way Pico will handle that much current, so I need to figure out how to rewire that.

There's also some risk that the Pico gets fried because of the variations that the starter and alternator can introduce. It's not rated for automotive. But I'm hoping this adapter (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B92Y3ML1/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_1?smid=A35IIP1M375GD9&psc=1) will be able to iron it out enough.

I'll keep posting the progress.

Definitely go with the Pico if that's what you're comfortable with. I can't help you with the switch itself, but an alternative for the light on the dash is to use a dimmed LED for low, and full brightness for high. To do this, I put a PWM LED dimmer in the path to ground for low, and direct connection to ground for high. All I needed to toggle between the two paths to ground was a SPDT relay, which was activated by the LOW wire on the seat heater switch. The dimmer saves whatever setting you have established when the power is off. Details in my build thread post here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27168-John%92s-Mk4-Build-Thread-Carpet-Prep&p=489125&viewfull=1#post489125), can dig out wiring diagram if you need more detail.

[mladen]

That's a great suggestion. I didn't think of dimming, and it would certainly look better as a solution rather than using blue and red colors. Is this the dimmer (https://www.superbrightleds.com/single-color-led-controller-with-dynamic-modes-cps-mld-5a-cps) you used? The link in your post seems to be dead at this point. EDIT: Or perhaps it was this one (https://www.superbrightleds.com/single-color-led-controller-with-dynamic-modes-mld-5a)?

[John Ibele]

That's a great suggestion. I didn't think of dimming, and it would certainly look better as a solution rather than using blue and red colors. Is this the dimmer (https://www.superbrightleds.com/single-color-led-controller-with-dynamic-modes-cps-mld-5a-cps) you used? The link in your post seems to be dead at this point. EDIT: Or perhaps it was this one (https://www.superbrightleds.com/single-color-led-controller-with-dynamic-modes-mld-5a)?

Yep, thanks - I fixed the link in my post, and it's the second one you linked to (MLD-5A (https://www.superbrightleds.com/single-color-led-controller-with-dynamic-modes-mld-5a)). It looks as though they have a few variations, you can pick which packaging version you like best. I picked this one for easy and separate access to red and black going in and out.

[mladen]

Quick update. I got the relay board today so I transferred everything onto the hardware. Here's a quick video showing it in action. It jumps twice in the end because I'm using just one hand and the jumper wires are shaky :)


https://youtube.com/shorts/LzD4UPRki2A?feature=share

[dhuff]

is there a wire to all 3 posts on the switch? My switches were as described but one position was hi and the ohter position was lo. mounted othen on the lower front of the seat with hi on when the top was on and lo when the bottom was on.

[Mick40]

I placed switches in the ashtray as some others have done. Vintage look, dash not cluttered.

[FDLWproject]

Pulling this thread back up, as I’m doing something similar with Billet Custom Buttons (example here (https://billetautomotivebuttons.com/products/22mm-seat-heater-symbol-billet-push-button-switch?variant=29527941611618)– it’s a DPST latching switch) and had a few questions. For context, my dash will use these style butotns across the bottom and I’d like to have the buttons on the dash for driver and passenger seat heaters. Looks like this. I just like the look of the LED buttons instead of the standard toggles.

200691

I found this diagram shared before on this thread super helpful. So sharing again for context.

200692

The questions…
Since the switch from Billet is a latching button, I know I can’t use both low and high, which is fine. I plan to just use high because I like it toasty and so does my wife (also don’t expect to use too often). On the billet button, I’ve already got that wired up to a separate set of wires that power the LED function on the light switches (those are the red and black buttons at the wire in the picture).

My question is how to wire this correctly. Mainly,
- I’m wondering if I need the relay that comes with the seat heaters at all, or if I could wire it directly (see below picture).
- I’ll only be using the high heat function, and the relay serves to switch between high/low, right?
- Would that be too much to run through these Billet buttons?
- If I’m planning to put both driver and passenger seat heaters in – do I need to worry about back feeding?

Basically I would take the seat pad wires (2 power reds, 2 black grounds) and merge them to run into cockpit. Then for the switching wires, use the brown Ron Francis heater wire to power one side of the switch, with the other being the red power to the seat pads.

I’m a dope, I know – so please feel free to tell me I’m nuts!

200693

[narly1]

You could use 2x SPST (on/off) switches and a SPDT relay to do what you want. One switch controls the power to the seats and the other one switches the relay to route the power back and forth between the low and high setting connections.

Earl

[narly1]

Pulling this thread back up, as I’m doing something similar with Billet Custom Buttons (example here (https://billetautomotivebuttons.com/products/22mm-seat-heater-symbol-billet-push-button-switch?variant=29527941611618)– it’s a DPST latching switch) and had a few questions. For context, my dash will use these style butotns across the bottom and I’d like to have the buttons on the dash for driver and passenger seat heaters. Looks like this. I just like the look of the LED buttons instead of the standard toggles.

200691

I found this diagram shared before on this thread super helpful. So sharing again for context.

200692

The questions…
Since the switch from Billet is a latching button, I know I can’t use both low and high, which is fine. I plan to just use high because I like it toasty and so does my wife (also don’t expect to use too often). On the billet button, I’ve already got that wired up to a separate set of wires that power the LED function on the light switches (those are the red and black buttons at the wire in the picture).

My question is how to wire this correctly. Mainly,
- I’m wondering if I need the relay that comes with the seat heaters at all, or if I could wire it directly (see below picture).
- I’ll only be using the high heat function, and the relay serves to switch between high/low, right?
- Would that be too much to run through these Billet buttons?
- If I’m planning to put both driver and passenger seat heaters in – do I need to worry about back feeding?

Basically I would take the seat pad wires (2 power reds, 2 black grounds) and merge them to run into cockpit. Then for the switching wires, use the brown Ron Francis heater wire to power one side of the switch, with the other being the red power to the seat pads.

I’m a dope, I know – so please feel free to tell me I’m nuts!

200693

I'm not sure that this scheme gives you the option of no heat at all, only low or high choices.

Earl