Calling Roadster Autox guys..

[RoadRacer]

I hope some of you have seen this and given them feedback about the proposed new SCCA rules?

I saw that "cobra kit cars" are specifically mentioned, but the minimum weights preclude any roadsters that I know of.

Proposed scca CAM/XS rules for 2023 (https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/065/237/2023%20CAM%20and%20Xtreme%20Rules%20Draft%20includ es%20CAM%20XS%20EV%20v11.pdf?1670270024&fbclid=IwAR2Q0ElmcN452s3eNRh6k6r2Kt8YW-5qu6qeAQ0CBoxhNhPOsJAXwykJClc)

Eligible vehicles: All vehicles, including 1965‐67 Cobra roadster replica “kit cars”, with seating for 2 or more
adults (no electric or hybrid‐electric vehicles).
 Interior floor covering may be removed.
 Weight with driver (lbs., min.):
o Average tire width of 275 and less: 2680
o Average tire width greater than 275: 2830

[RoadRacer]

I was going to try for XB/XS in my hot rod, but XB has perfect weight but no V8 allowed, and XS is way too heavy a minimum.

[GTBradley]

I had not considered XS category before, but not sure I would anyway with the limit on tire width/weight. I haven't looked at the 2022 specs lately, but the CAM-S seems similar in weight restriction. I always figured I'd need to get the empty car weight to about 2500 pounds (2680 with driver). What did catch my eye was the requirement to have glass in the front windscreen. It used to be a huge weight penalty for Lexan, but now it appears that OE glass is required. Looks like I'll be sticking with XP category.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I was going to try for XB/XS in my hot rod, but XB has perfect weight but no V8 allowed, and XS is way too heavy a minimum.

Yep. The CAM-S class minimum weights have never been realistic for our roadsters. Through 2022 the minimum weights have been WITHOUT the driver (2,500 for a roadster) and this new proposal is WITH driver. Mine weighs in at 2,180 full of gas; put me in there and we'd hit 2,340 which is still more than 300 pounds too light. Moot point for you since CAM-C does not include the '33 or other "Hot Rods" (it also doesn't include the FFR Daytona Coupe). What does yours weigh with you in it? How far away will you be from the XS minimum?

CAM-S is dominated by C6 Z06 Corvettes and SCCA has tuned the rule set to keep it that way. As I said my case I'm >300 pounds too light...and am also running 100 TW tires. Concievably I could add 15% of the car's weight in ballast and change tires but to what end...just to run slower in a big field of Corvettes?

Soooo...I run XP and you could too. You could also fit into E-mod.

Jeff

[RoadRacer]

Yep. The CAM-S class minimum weights have never been realistic for our roadsters. Through 2022 the minimum weights have been WITHOUT the driver (2,500 for a roadster) and this new proposal is WITH driver. Mine weighs in at 2,180 full of gas; put me in there and we'd hit 2,340 which is still more than 300 pounds too light. Moot point for you since CAM-C does not include the '33 or other "Hot Rods" (it also doesn't include the FFR Daytona Coupe). What does yours weigh with you in it? How far away will you be from the XS minimum?

CAM-S is dominated by C6 Z06 Corvettes and SCCA has tuned the rule set to keep it that way. As I said my case I'm >300 pounds too light...and am also running 100 TW tires. Concievably I could add 15% of the car's weight in ballast and change tires but to what end...just to run slower in a big field of Corvettes?

Soooo...I run XP and you could too. You could also fit into E-mod.

Jeff

I'm about 300lbs heavy for XS, 2300 without, 2550 with me. Not even I can add that much over Christmas. :D

Looks like I'm stuck in EM.. ridiculous! I'll look at XP again.

I was just so surprised that they mention Cobras and then make it so none of you can enter!

[RoadRacer]

Quick scan of XP, I don't think the hot rod will work there.. too few of them per year, and fenderless (for starters).

Nevermind, I'll stay in EM. Every year I look, just in case.

Cars running in Prepared Category must have been series produced
with normal road touring equipment, capable of being licensed for
normal road use in the United States, and normally sold and delivered
through the manufacturer’s retail sales outlets in the US. Cars not specifically listed in Prepared Category classes in Appendix A must have
been produced in quantities of at least 1000 in a 12-month period to be
eligible for Prepared Category.
3. SCCA® may also class suitable non-production, full-bodied, full-fendered, strictly-specified cars into this category. Production quantities,
EPA approval, and DOT approval are not required. SCCA® may choose
not to classify any such vehicle it deems unsuitable for the Prepared
category.

[J R Jones]

The CAM-S Catigory specified weights seem more appropriate for Superformance cars (spec: 2485-2660 w/o driver) XB fits if they added an 8 engine.

[john42]

I'm in XP and "lie" about my Lexan windshield. My car weighs 2430lbs with me in it and a full tank (22 gallons) of gas. It seems very difficult to categorize these cars for autocross... Also of note is I'm running R888R. For me tho, I don't honestly care. I'm just out for fun and have neither the skill nor the time to be competitive.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I'm in XP and "lie" about my Lexan windshield. My car weighs 2430lbs with me in it and a full tank (22 gallons) of gas. It seems very difficult to categorize these cars for autocross... Also of note is I'm running R888R. For me tho, I don't honestly care. I'm just out for fun and have neither the skill nor the time to be competitive.

You’re not legal on 2 counts; weight and tires. The Corvette boys won’t care unless you start beating them—-then they’ll screech like a cat with it’s tail slammed in a door :D

Jeff

[john42]

In my region none of the vetts are in XP. I’m usually alone. I also suck bad enough that no one is concerned…

[GTBradley]

The way I understand it, you can have Lexan in XP. You can have just about anything in XP, including 100 TW.

[Jeff Kleiner]

In my region none of the vetts are in XP. I’m usually alone. I also suck bad enough that no one is concerned…

Sorry, I misunderstood and thought you were running CAM-S. You can run XP no problem…lexan, glass or no windshield at all!

Jeff

[CraigS]

Dang just what SCCA needs, more effing classes.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Dang just what SCCA needs, more effing classes.

:D :D :D

Trophies for everyone!

A couple of local region buddies whose cars like ours don’t legitimately fit into established classes (tube chassis ranger pickup with a heavily turbo boosted Ford 2.3 and a VW Beetle with a Subaru STI engine and transaxle where the back seat belongs) have proposed a new class to be known as ZF which translates to “zero ****s given”. Rules are there are no rules…show up with whatever ya’ got, fastest time wins, no PAX, no trophies, just good fun! ;)

Jeff

[GTBradley]

:D :D :D

Trophies for everyone!

A couple of local region buddies whose cars like ours don’t legitimately fit into established classes (tube chassis ranger pickup with a heavily turbo boosted Ford 2.3 and a VW Beetle with a Subaru STI engine and transaxle where the back seat belongs) have proposed a new class to be known as ZF which translates to “zero ****s given”. Rules are there are no rules…show up with whatever ya’ got, fastest time wins, no PAX, no trophies, just good fun! ;)

Jeff
That smacks of a proposal for a new autocross organization...count me in!

[john42]

That smacks of a proposal for a new autocross organization...count me in!

We should do it like the Corvette guys do at car shows. Make our own class! That way we always have a guaranteed win!

[RoadRacer]

:D :D :D

Trophies for everyone!

A couple of local region buddies whose cars like ours don’t legitimately fit into established classes (tube chassis ranger pickup with a heavily turbo boosted Ford 2.3 and a VW Beetle with a Subaru STI engine and transaxle where the back seat belongs) have proposed a new class to be known as ZF which translates to “zero ****s given”. Rules are there are no rules…show up with whatever ya’ got, fastest time wins, no PAX, no trophies, just good fun! ;)

Jeff

I think that's called e-modified - where I am - maybe there are rules but not many real ones :D But I like ZF as a name!

[Sdonnel]

I mistakenly ran CAM-S this year (got bored reading the class descriptions and picked something close). Got waxed by 2019 vettes and the like, but still had fun. Next year I will run XP and still get waxed by the Miata guy that's afraid to compete with the other Miata's. Like others have said, I'm no threat for the FTOD in any case.

[Avalanche325]

I have been running CAM-S for the last few years, knowing that my weight isn't legal. But I was asked to by the people in CAM-S to have more cars there. I don't think most people care too much at local events. Maybe bring it up to your group. Mine has done some class consolidation in the past. Start going regional or nationals, and that is a different story.

Before that I was running XP. XP PAX is ridiculous, if you care about that. I have been top 10 raw and near the bottom in PAX. In XP for around here it has been by myself, 1 or 2 other FFRs, or full blown race cars. But that is where we are legal.

I personally think they should work on class reduction. Just have CAM, without splitting it up since it is a "get more people involved" class. Why have a minimum weight for a get more people involved class?

I am in for the fun. I have a couple guys in different classes where we have our own personal contest. That is the most fun.

[GTBradley]

I would agree on the class reduction for CAM. The rules baffle me sometimes, such as, the 150 pound weight penalty for Lexan windscreen. It saves at most 30 pounds over glass, so what gives? It is weight reduction up high but that seems excessive.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...PAX is ridiculous, if you care about that.



Just rememeber:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176452&d=1648836398

This always honks off some of the lower street class guys...which is why I like it :p

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176451&d=1648836219

:D

Jeff


176452
176451

[Windsor]

That smacks of a proposal for a new autocross organization...count me in!

Last I autocrossed (2000-ish), you could autocross almost every weekend for nine months straight in the DFW area:

SCCA
Equipe Rapide (which strongly followed SCCA rules back then)
Corvette Club
Miata Club

[CraigS]

I would agree on the class reduction for CAM. The rules baffle me sometimes, such as, the 150 pound weight penalty for Lexan windscreen. It saves at most 30 pounds over glass, so what gives? It is weight reduction up high but that seems excessive.

There are many, many rules in SCCA that baffle me. I am really surprised that they just keep adding more. Doesn't anyone in their hierarchy see what they are doing?

[rich grsc]

There are many, many rules in SCCA that baffle me. I am really surprised that they just keep adding more. Doesn't anyone in their hierarchy see what they are doing?
People in power, just want more control, so more rules.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

I do fun runs on occasion & found without power steering tight big box parking lot course with 140 degree turns are just to hard on the 80 year old upper body. First time I showed up with the car they did a light check over, had the preseason tech inspection sticker, saw my tires, Nitto NT01, & assigned it to XP which I put on with blue tape. Have never tried to change it. On occasion am the only car in the class, no killer Miata's have dropped down so far.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176542&d=1670522355

[NiceGuyEddie]

I wonder if the new rules have anything to do with the fact that the former West Coast SCCA Autocross Champion drove a 275hp Factory Five street car and smoked purpose-built Miata's....

[Sdonnel]

My local group is now monitoring sound levels. My 351 and gas-n pipes got popped for 102 decibels all the time. Pretty soon it will all be Teslas and portable generators between runs.

[CraigS]

My local group is now monitoring sound levels. My 351 and gas-n pipes got popped for 102 decibels all the time. Pretty soon it will all be Teslas and portable generators between runs.

As much as I hate it I have to admit that sound levels need to be kept in check. One baseball stadium I used to run at started out being way out in the country. From around 2008 to 2018 it went from no one in sight to having new houses and townhouses on three sides. I have moved away from there but wonder how long they will be able to run there. Another stadium stopped AXs in about 2010. I ran at FedEx Field in DC from 2006 to 2018. In 2020 they stopped running there. I am not sure if it was a sound problem or not but 99% AXs are on Sunday and maybe 2 blocks away there was a large church.

[J R Jones]

As much as I hate it I have to admit that sound levels need to be kept in check. One baseball stadium I used to run at started out being way out in the country. From around 2008 to 2018 it went from no one in sight to having new houses and townhouses on three sides. I have moved away from there but wonder how long they will be able to run there. Another stadium stopped AXs in about 2010. I ran at FedEx Field in DC from 2006 to 2018. In 2020 they stopped running there. I am not sure if it was a sound problem or not but 99% AXs are on Sunday and maybe 2 blocks away there was a large church.

Exhaust noise control has obviously been an issue at race tracks for some time. Neighborhood noise control does not seem unreasonable. Locally noise has limited and/or canceled C & C after participants brought vintage race cars to the events, and indiscreet demonstrations of power.
Similar but different, I have been disappointed at recent funerals for veterans and elimination of live 21 gun salutes. Sign of the times.
jim

[john42]

For sound I've been measured at 88db on the autox course. 302 with Factory Five pipes. 102 is very loud!

[GTBradley]

I was concerned that I would be penalized for the roadster side pipes, but was surprised to find out that I never go over the 100db limit. Jeff pointed out that side pipes are an advantage in that only one is pointed at the sound meter when you go by.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I was concerned that I would be penalized for the roadster side pipes, but was surprised to find out that I never go over the 100db limit. Jeff pointed out that side pipes are an advantage in that only one is pointed at the sound meter when you go by.

If I'm the Jeff you're referring to you must have misunderstood. Our pipes are actually a DISADVANTAGE. The meters are set up on the side of the track/course perpendicular to the direction of travel. Unlike cars that exhaust out the back our pipes blow directly into them and sound waves are not dispersed before being read. That's why fart can Hondas and rotary engined Mazdas don't get called out even though to our ears they seem much louder. I've heard of some Cobra guys having sound success by turning the sidepipe ends down so that they blow onto the tarmac which allows the waves to be broken up before hitting the meter.

Most venues where I autocross don't measure sound, probably because they are on active or decommissioned military airfields without residential development nearby. The only time I've been called out for exceeding 100 dB was running on the road course at Lucas Oil Raceway (AKA Indianapolis Raceway Park) which was quite ironic since that is the scene of the NHRA US Nationals where the top fuel and funny cars hit about a gazillion decibels!

Jeff

[GTBradley]

You were, Jeff, but I must have got that wrong. It did make sense to me, whoever said it, because it basically it comes down to all the sound coming out the back or half the sound coming out each side. Though, to me, sound is sound and if it sounds louder to you it sounds louder to the meter, unless you are standing closer to the cars than the meter is at 50 feet. This does bring up the idea that I may have an advantage in that my tips are removable which means I can point them in any directions I want. And now I'm wondering if pointing the outside tip straight away from the meter and the inside tip down or even under the car might cheat the system a bit. That is if I ever need to because, as I said before, I'm not in violation, and even lower in decibels than some of the 4 bangers.

I also have the potential advantage of using the muffled tips I developed if I need to and I'm thinking that with aging of the Gas-N side pipes, I will need them in the future.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

As much as I hate it I have to admit that sound levels need to be kept in check. One baseball stadium I used to run at started out being way out in the country. From around 2008 to 2018 it went from no one in sight to having new houses and townhouses on three sides. I have moved away from there but wonder how long they will be able to run there. Another stadium stopped AXs in about 2010. I ran at FedEx Field in DC from 2006 to 2018. In 2020 they stopped running there. I am not sure if it was a sound problem or not but 99% AXs are on Sunday and maybe 2 blocks away there was a large church.

Ran at Englishtown Raceway Park on opening day. Was in the middle of farm fields. Housing expanded then the sound wall went up. Housing continued to expand & then the track closed down.:(

[john42]

Ahh.. yes... I should have pointed out that for autox I point my tips down toward the ground. That likely has a lot to do with my 88db readings. There's basically nothing left for packing in my sidepipes, it's been thoroughly blown out during the cars NASA days.

[john42]

Ran at Englishtown Raceway Park on opening day. Was in the middle of farm fields. Housing expanded then the sound wall went up. Housing continued to expand & then the track closed down.:(

Ya I don't understand this at all. It is like Denver International Airport. They intentionally built the new airport as far away as possible. A few years go by and houses are being built all around the new airport.. Then they complain and the airport has to start making noise restrictions.. It's like seriously, you bought the house next to a racetrack / airport! Shut up about the noise lol. Where I autox is at the Devans Airport and the locals complain about the noise so we have a 90db limit. I just don't get it...

[Sdonnel]

We have an F-16 unit at our local airport. They don’t mention anyone going too loud at that location. Especially when the jets go by with a 50 foot tongue of flame hanging out the back end. When we run at a local community college, that’s when the measurements matter. I regeared the rear ended before the last event and didn’t get tapped on the helmet like I used to. It’s a fun hobby and I’ll continue doing it as long as I’m able to. Learned a lot about driving the car, which was the only goal.

[Matt Ries]

Mary and I run XP usually by ourselves, my stock 302 doesn't make any noise! Did any XP rules change? It's time to buy tires before next season.

[GTBradley]

Mary and I run XP usually by ourselves, my stock 302 doesn't make any noise! Did any XP rules change? It's time to buy tires before next season.
It appears to me that XP is going to be the same for 2023 because proposed changes have not been made for it. Despite the fact that I show up to the track with an XP vinyl sticker on my car, I usually get re-classed into PM with others that are by themselves too. It's more convenient for the timers, but requires me to pull my XP off and use tape to make an PM on the door - a little annoying and confusing.

On the subject of tires, I bought some Nankang AR-1 tires earlier this year and ran about six auto crosses on them and only used them for street use to and from the track. I've heard from people at the track that they wouldn't use AX tires over two seasons, but I can't see why not if there is still plenty of tread. Any thoughts from the AX people?

[RoadRacer]

On the subject of tires, I bought some Nankang AR-1 tires earlier this year and ran about six auto crosses on them and only used them for street use to and from the track. I've heard from people at the track that they wouldn't use AX tires over two seasons, but I can't see why not if there is still plenty of tread. Any thoughts from the AX people?



As long as the date codes were recent when you bought them (I always try to get that info before purchase), I'd use for a 2nd year. I had no idea how many crooks there were in the tire market until I started looking at date codes. 5 year old tires are NOT new :)

[Jeff Kleiner]

Bradley,
The rubber gets hard with age. This is exacerbated with the softer compounds and grip diminishes at a more rapid rate.

Yeah James you have to watch, especially when buying from some of the online sellers. Two years ago I removed the wheels from a customer's car while painting it and noticed that the Michelin Pilots were over 10 years old even though he had only built the car a year earlier. When I mentioned it to the owner he said that he had no idea and that may be why he "got such a great deal" buying them online from WalMart! I advised him to replace them but don't know whether he did :eek:

Jeff

[GTBradley]

Bradley,
The rubber gets hard with age. This is exacerbated with the softer compounds and grip diminishes at a more rapid rate.

Yeah James you have to watch, especially when buying from some of the online sellers. Two years ago I removed the wheels from a customer's car while painting it and noticed that the Michelin Pilots were over 10 years old even though he had only built the car a year earlier. When I mentioned it to the owner he said that he had no idea and that may be why he "got such a great deal" buying them online from WalMart! I advised him to replace them but don't know whether he did :eek:

Jeff

As long as the date codes were recent when you bought them (I always try to get that info before purchase), I'd use for a 2nd year. I had no idea how many crooks there were in the tire market until I started looking at date codes. 5 year old tires are NOT new :)
I was careful with that and the tires are just over one year old now, so by the middle of next AX season they'll be 1 ½ years old. I would think that would be new enough, but I guess we'll see...

[Avalanche325]

I agree that if a racetrack or airport is there first and you build your house next to it.....too bad. Years ago in Virginia Beach, they built houses right up against the Naval Air Station and complained that the fighter jets were loud......REALLY?

Luckily we are not doing noise restrictions where I run......yet. They are trying to build a neighborhood right next to an airport that we use. In as swamp at that. But it is not selling.

Tires do harden with age and with heat cycles. Some of it depends on how serious you want to be. I run with a guy that keeps a log book, takes notes after every run, will never take a passenger, etc. If you are that serious, it's trailer and Hoosier time.

[Jeff Kleiner]

… I run with a guy that keeps a log book, takes notes after every run, will never take a passenger, etc…

Oh for crying out loud! He needs to put down the little black book, quit calculating PAX after each run, re-evaluate and be more like me and my ZF class buddies:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176807&d=1671141804

:)

Jeff

176807

[Gizmosrcool]

10 or 15 years ago home owners complained about the noise from Quantico Marine base. The tank proving grounds. Seems the tanks were too noisy. Like they never predicted that when they purchased a house in a new community. Next to the tank proving grounds. Like Jeff Foxworthy said "Here is your sign"

[CraigS]

From 2014 to 2019 we lived about a mile from the outer fence for Quantico. I was retired but wife still working. One day I heard a lot of explosions and that night mentioned it to my wife. Said they must be blasting for the new high school being built. She mentioned it to one of her buds at work. Bud says, where is your house again. Wife tells her and she says, "What your husband is hearing are the sounds of freedom." Her husband was a Marine stationed at Quantico and she happened to know that they were doing tank training that week.

[john42]

Oh for crying out loud! He needs to put down the little black book, quit calculating PAX after each run, re-evaluate and be more like me and my ZF class buddies:




Ya we have a few of those where I run too. What was hilarious was when they were trying to give me all sorts of detailed tire advice and other techiebabble and an instructor walked up just shaking his head. One of them looked at him and said what? Instructor just shrugged and said none of that is going to make a lick of difference in your times. One of them accepted the challenge and handed him the keys to his car. The instructor proceeded to absolutely cream his best time with passengers on cold tires!

IMO go out have fun. I 1000% don't take it that seriously. Well... What I do take seriously is making sure my car is safe and has good tires.

It was also funny on another occasion I went to an BMW/SCCA all day instructor event where you have an instructor in your car all day. After a few runs the instructors took us around in our own car giving us an idea of the difference. Then the instructors took us around in their own car. I was quite amused when the instructor could not beat the time he set in my car with his own car. He was quite surprised too and gave it several runs. Especially, after he was commenting about how he didn't like the brakes in my car (Cobra brakes with Hawk pads). Goes to show these FF Cobras can be quite quick for SCCA. He also set the fastest time of the day of all the instructors in my car. It also showed me just how much I have to learn!

[J R Jones]

Ya we have a few of those where I run too. What was hilarious was when they were trying to give me all sorts of detailed tire advice and other techiebabble and an instructor walked up just shaking his head. One of them looked at him and said what? Instructor just shrugged and said none of that is going to make a lick of difference in your times. One of them accepted the challenge and handed him the keys to his car. The instructor proceeded to absolutely cream his best time with passengers on cold tires!

IMO go out have fun. I 1000% don't take it that seriously. Well... What I do take seriously is making sure my car is safe and has good tires.

It was also funny on another occasion I went to an BMW/SCCA all day instructor event where you have an instructor in your car all day. After a few runs the instructors took us around in our own car giving us an idea of the difference. Then the instructors took us around in their own car. I was quite amused when the instructor could not beat the time he set in my car with his own car. He was quite surprised too and gave it several runs. Especially, after he was commenting about how he didn't like the brakes in my car (Cobra brakes with Hawk pads). Goes to show these FF Cobras can be quite quick for SCCA. He also set the fastest time of the day of all the instructors in my car. It also showed me just how much I have to learn!

What was the instructor's car?
I did a BMW demo years ago on a parking lot AutoX with a wet skid pad. The end in mind was to show the BMW superior to the competitor cars, Mercedes, Volvo, Acura. Pro driver/instructors. There was no way the BMW was going to lose, it was impressive. That had to be an expensive program.
jim

[john42]

What was the instructor's car?
I did a BMW demo years ago on a parking lot AutoX with a wet skid pad. The end in mind was to show the BMW superior to the competitor cars, Mercedes, Volvo, Acura. Pro driver/instructors. There was no way the BMW was going to lose, it was impressive. That had to be an expensive program.
jim

Instructor had a clownshoe (M Roaster)

[Jeff Kleiner]

Circling back around to the original subject---There was an online "Town Hall" meeting asking for input on the proposed rule set last week. The outcome of that was another version that potentially opens up XB for our roadsters, Daytona Coupes, '33 Hot Rods and the like.

https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/065/394/2023_CAM_and_Xtreme_Rules_v12.pdf?1671294735

Notice that the previous language that excluded 8 cylinder engines has been eliminated. The minimum weight with driver is 2,330 pounds, right where we need to be.

Just between you, me and whoever else reads this I think the powers that be realized that they shot themselves in the foot with regards to one of the groups they were catering to (that being LS or other V8 swapped Miatas) and found that the minimum weights they had set for XS were too high for them and the exclusion of 8 cylinders wouldn't allow them into XB either.

The fly in the ointment that may bite us and the reason that I said "potentially" is the language under eligible vehicles which states:
"...Vehicles must have a factory affixed OE manufacturer VIN plate..."
However under the CAM-S rules the Cobra roadster "kit cars" are specifically called out as eligible, and as we know although they have a manufacturer issued Certificate of Origin they don't have a VIN until we title and register them in our various jurisdictions. Of course it wouldn't be the first time SCCA rules have contradicted themselves :rolleyes:

You know, the whole thing is that when CAM was conceptualized and initially created by Raliegh Boreen and others in the Indianapolis Region it was intended to be a "Run what you brung" deal with a simple, easy to follow set of rules that was hopefully going to attract the kind of folks who run Good Guys and the Optima Ultimate Street Car events. That's what it did for a couple of years as a regional experiment until the SCCA formally adopted it and started twisting, restricting and adding to the rules until they wound up turning off the exact people they were hoping to attract.

Stay tuned and we'll see how this all plays out.

Jeff

[GTBradley]

...The fly in the ointment that may bite us and the reason that I said "potentially" is the language under eligible vehicles which states:
"...Vehicles must have a factory affixed OE manufacturer VIN plate..."
However under the CAM-S rules the Cobra roadster "kit cars" are specifically called out as eligible, and as we know although they have a manufacturer issued Certificate of Origin they don't have a VIN until we title and register them in our various jurisdictions. Of course it wouldn't be the first time SCCA rules have contradicted themselves...

Change that to: Vehicles must have a OE manufacturer VIN plate affixed. And then define VIN loosely, if it isn't already, and we're good.

[Jeff Kleiner]

The "Vehicles must have a factory affixed OE manufacturer VIN plate" phrase makes me suspicious because it has not appeared in the 2022 and earlier rules for either Cam or Xtreme Street. SCCA sometimes has a way of making exceptions &/or exclusions without actually saying so...many times by slipping in phrases such as this, unrealistic weight minimums, tire restrictions, etc.

Take a look at the rules package as of 1/1/2022 and notice how much less wide open the latest revision is and how the recent proposals are venturing farther away from the rationale that stated "...to attract automobile enthusiasts interested in autocross events with street vehicles using minimal rules that allow for creative modifications with limited restrictions"

cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/048/556/Xtreme_Street_%28XS%29_Rules-01012022.pdf?1649086401

Jeff

[GTBradley]

Not getting easier with that class, is it?

That made me look through the myriad allowances for XP again. The original Cobra (63-67) is listed in XP, but it seems as though it qualifies for the XSB category, or does it not? Assuming it is... then if a replica is essentially the same as the original and was not modified beyond what is allowed in Extreme Street shouldn't it be allowed too?

Sorry, just thinking out-loud.

[RoadRacer]

Well I did my first event in the new XB and it was a lot of fun.. I may actually be able to compete here! I was second in a field of 7. Alll others are power-added Miata’s and s2000’s so I stand out a little ;)

But fun.. looking forward to this year now!

[Matt Ries]

GT Bradley, I've run several sets of Nitto NT01's and they drop off in the third 3yr. We do open track events also. I have no idea of how to count heat cycles in the different events and run times, it's also a street car primarily. We also don't do that many events either any more. I don't have too much to spend on the car so we run the tires till their done. We just like to have fun pushing the car for all it's worth! Our skill level is a limiting factor. Speeking of fun, we've registered for the Motorvault event at Putnam Park in late July. Its a fun, low key event that they cater to Cobra's, at a very safe track with lots of run off. Check out Motor Sports Reg for Search Motorvault for info. It's also an relatively inexpensive track event with way more track time per dollar than auto x. They also cap the number of cars in run groups to 20 so the track is not crowded. If any body has never done a track event with their Cobra this is a good one to try it out! Matt

[GFX2043mtu]

Call me old school but race cars should be loud. It’s so sad that people can move in near race tracks or venues used for competitive driving and then complain it’s to loud. Kinda like moving next to a gun range and complaining. I call it being an educated buyer and if someone doesn’t realize what you’re buying it isn’t my fault. They shut down one of my home tracks at 5:00 pm ever evening because of noise complains that caused an ordnance.