Carl's and Phil's Mk4 Body Work and Paint [Archive]

hineas

12-01-2022, 11:47 PM

EDIT: are you here to decide if you want to do your own body work? Read my thoughts on doing my own body work and paint on this thread.
(https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?46523-We-Finished-Body-Work-and-Paint-Ourselves-My-Thoughts)

My brother and I built a Mk4 Roadster together. Here is our build thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?38842-Carl-s-and-Phil-s-Mk4-Roadster-Build-Thread). We started in February 2021. The car was registered in December 2021. Since that time, we have put about 6,000 miles on it. It has been a joy to drive and has exceeded our expectations so far.

Now that the driving season is over for the year, we figured we would tackle the body work. I know this is a big project, but it is something we want to do. Before deciding if this was something we really wanted to do, I ended up repainting the hood on my Jeep Cherokee. I take the Jeep off road and felt that it was a good test vehicle. I stripped it down to bear metal, smoothed it out with some Rage Gold, and painted it. It turned out nearly perfect. I know the Mk4 is a different beast, but at least I knew I could get a good quality paint job if I take my time and am willing to spend time fixing my mistakes. Here is a picture of my Cherokee hood after it was painted:

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I went to the local body shop and bought supplies. Wow, prices have gone up. I bought a gallon of Rage Gold, a quart of HSRF, a bunch of good quality sand paper, a pad of mixing sheets, etc. They threw in a few dozen rubber spreaders at no charge. I already own some sanding equipment and sanding blocks. Hopefully I don't have to buy those, but mine are moderately rigid so I may need something more flexible. I have seen people mention using pool noodles to sand the curves, maybe I'll use one of those.

I have 2 weeks off starting on Monday. I hope to be able to start the body work then. I hope to have the body work done by spring so we can paint when it starts warming up.

First order of business starting next week is to clean 6,000 miles of grime and bugs off the car (don't worry, we have cleaned it recently). Once that is done I'll sand down the parting lines and start shaping those.

This is a huge undertaking, and I hope it goes well. Wish us luck!!!

WIS89

12-02-2022, 07:38 AM

hineas

12-03-2022, 01:46 AM

Carl and Phil-

Best of luck with your next evolution! I think the Cherokee hood turned out wonderfully and should give you a great deal of confidence as you begin. I will caution, however, that I don't think that hood will fit on the roadster! HAHA

I hope you post about your progress, as I think there are many of us who would like to follow along over the winter. Again, nice job on that hood!

Regards,

Steve

Thanks!

I will definitely keep this updated. There are a ton of build threads, but the amount of body work threads are less frequent. I am hoping my week next week stays open so I can start sanding (and sanding, and sanding, and sanding). I know that I am going to get well acquainted with the sand paper and respirator....

cc2Arider

12-04-2022, 07:35 AM

Nice job on that hood! :)

I'm looking forward to your progress updates, too :)

Craig C

hineas

12-05-2022, 04:34 PM

A week ago I went on a 300 mile drive. I was cold outside, it got down to 21 degrees. But with the top on, heater, and heated seats I was nice and warm. I did have to stuff a hoodie down along tthe door because we don't have any weather striping on and it let in a lot of cold air. One last drive before starting body work.

Today, I spent some time getting the body nice and clean. Then I cleaned with a degreaser/dewaxer. I was amazed at how much grime and bugs were in the nooks and crannies of the body.

It was a warm-ish day (45 F), so I was able to get it done outside. Last week was below freezing, so today felt down right balmy!

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I was amazed at how the degreaser interacted with the uncured gel coat on the partying lines. It left a bunch of white residue. I was able to easily scrape it off.

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Now that I have the body clean, time to move on to sanding!

hineas

12-05-2022, 04:43 PM

I started sanding today as well. I used 80 grit on a 2" round sander. I worked on the parting lines on the front of the vehicle. I sanded it down until it was a little bit lower than the curve of the fenders. l tried not to go too deep so I didn't have thick body filler in the area.

I had a few deep voids and I sanded down through most of them. I have a few I'm going to go back and clean up with a dremel because they are deep and I don't want to sand too much fiberglass away.

I think I only have two voids that were deep enough to require a half dollar size each of HSRF. The rest should be fine with just Rage Gold.

Do these parting lines look deep enough (or too deep)? Do i need to worry about the tiny air bubbles or can I just cover with some Rage Gold?

I'm going to go back with my 6" sander and scuff up the gel coat before I put the body filler on.

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The next picture shows my deepest void. I assume I still need to clean it out a little more.

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hineas

12-05-2022, 04:47 PM

I forgot to include my time. I want to keep a running tally of time spent for people considering body work.

Total Time: 4 hours (including deep body clean)

Jeff Kleiner

12-05-2022, 06:04 PM

Yes, you need to get a little farther into that deep one to pop it all the way to solid edges. You’ll need to go much wider on all of your lines before filler. By the way, that’s not incurred gelcoat, it’s clay—-and you need to dig it out.

Carry on!

Jefg

hineas

12-05-2022, 06:58 PM

Thanks for the input, Jeff! This is my first real foray into this type of work and will take all the suggestions I can get!!!

Clay makes much more sense. I dug out all clay I could find.

Here is my plan for the next steps:
1) I am going to clean out the few voids I have
2) Pull out my DA and widen the area around the parting lines using 80 grit
3) block sand the rest of the gel coat with 80 grit.
4) blow off dust and wipe with degreaser
5) fill deep voids with HSRF
6) start shaping parting lines

I figure that will keep me busy for quite some time! I'll keep positing my work as I make progress.

42Bfast

12-05-2022, 09:37 PM

Cheering your determination and courage!!

And, watching intently as I continue to inch toward the day it becomes necessary to decide, paint it myself or go to someone that knows what they are doing.

For us wide-eyed, nose pressed to the glass, hand wringing observers,… a short minute or 5 video on technique or critical items as you encounter and overcome, would send us all a-twitter. Just saying. Hint- hint.

hineas

12-06-2022, 09:34 PM

I had a few minutes to spare today. I found I had some cheap (Hardbor Freight) 60 grit sanding disks for my DA sander. I threw one on and quicklywidened out the sanding on my parting lines. Then I threw on my the expensive 80 grit disk that I got at the local body shop. I'm blown away at how much nicer the expensive ones are. The 80 grit expensive sand paper cut so much better than the 60.

With the 80 grit I sanded a little wider to make sure I got the edges of the 60 and smoothed it all out. I then pulled out my 2" sander and ground down the deep void a little better. I have a few more smaller voids to fix, but this was the deepest.

I only spent about 15 minutes today then cleaned up. The DA sander makes quick work of the parting lines.

Do I need to worry about the tiny pin holes in the fiberglass? I assume I can put the rage gold over those. I know I'll have pin holes when sanding the rage gold too that I will have to fill.

Total time spent: 4.15 hours.

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Blitzboy54

12-12-2022, 12:03 PM

Welcome back. Really looking forward to following along.

hineas

01-28-2023, 11:31 PM

It has been a while, but my brother came to town and will be here for a week. I hope to get a lot done.

Last week I cleaned out the garage so we would have room to work on the body. Also, I wanted to move out the things I didn't want covered with pink dust.

We stopped at Harbor Freight and got some wheel dollies so we could move the car into the center of the garage, it was really nice.

One last look at the car all shiny and red. This is the last time it will look this way for quite a while...

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We started off by taking off the hardware so we can start sanding. I forgot how big of a pain the driver side windshield frame is! It took me about 30 minutes to get that off and I had to use two extensions separated by a u-joint connector. This was my setup to get the bolts out of the windshield mount.

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We left the hood and trunk latches on until we get those panels aligned.

Once most of the hardware was off, I showed my brother how to do the cross hatch pattern. We used pool noodles cut about 18" long for our sanding block. They worked really well. We sanded the entire body today. I also worked with my 1.5" sander and my 5" DA sander to knock down the parting lines. There were a few voids in the rear that were big, but over all they weren't bad. The line near the windshield is fairly off set. I sanded down the high side a decent amount, but it will take a bit of body filler to get it to look right.

We spent about 5 hours working today. We sanded about 95% of the body with 80 grit. This is just our first pass. I wanted to get everything sanded so I can start putting body filler along the parting lines.

Here is the car at the end of the day.

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There are a few deep voids we have to fill. The deepest is behind the driver door.

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Total time today: 5 hours with 2 people, so 10 man hours.

Total time up to this point: 14 hours.

Mike.Bray

01-29-2023, 12:38 PM

I forgot how big of a pain the driver side windshield frame is! It took me about 30 minutes to get that off and I had to use two extensions separated by a u-joint connector. This was my setup to get the bolts out of the windshield mount.

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I wasn't man enough to do the windshield the Factory Five way so I bought these (https://fortesparts.com/product/factory-5-quick-release-windshield-brackets/) great little widgets from Forte.

https://www.imagecoast.com/images/MichaelBray1/20221129171013mediumrotated.jpg

hineas

01-30-2023, 10:42 AM

I really should look into that modification! Those bolts were a big pain.

hineas

01-30-2023, 11:26 AM

Yesterday we put in about 6 hours (12 man hours) on the car.

We started off mixing up some HSRF (high strength repair filler). We decided to get the long fiberglass stand type, since the body shop recommended it for extra strength. We are going to have to build up the door edge because the gap is about 1/4" in places, and I wanted better reinforcement for the edge of the door.

We had 4 deep voids along the parting lines. I took a dremel and finished grinding them out. It was amazing at how the voids kept going. The largest was about 2" in diameter. We mixed the HSRF and filled the voids. I have read that it can be a pain to sand, so we filled it just barely below level with the body. The HSRF is harder to sand than the Rage Gold, but it didn't take much since we didn't fill the void to above the top.

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Next, we mixed up some Rage Gold and put it along the parting lines. For us, mixing a blob about 4" in diameter was about the right amount. That way the filler wasn't setting before we finished applying it.

We found that we could put filler over all the parting lines before we started sanding. By the time we finished laying the filler, the area we started at would be ready to sand. Then we would sand half the car, clean that half, then put more filler where we sanded. Then we would sand the other half while the filler was curing on the first half. This allowed us to work in circles around the car.

We also tried to bend the spatula so it fit the curve nicely. When i figured that out, the application of the Rage Gold went much quicker.

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We made sure that the edges of the filler were feathered nicely. I frequently closed my eyes and ran my hands across the area to feel any low or high areas. I would sand the highs and then allow the filler to fill the low on my next pass.

Using a pool noodle cut in about 18" length was perfect for block sanding. The curves make a ridged block worthless.

We ended up doing about 2 full passes with the Rage Gold. This got us and 80% of the way there. On the third pass we did most of the parting lines but some areas didn't need it. The fourth pass was just touch up to areas that were flat or low. I think there are a few small sections that need a slight amount of filler but the parting lines are almost finished.

Over all, I'm impressed with the body. Most of the parting lines lines up really well. The front fenders lines up great, the front area in front of the hood was flat, behind the cockpit was neatly perfect (that took 1 pass of body filler to fix). The only area that didn't line up well was under the windshield. That took several passes and we still need to extend the filler out.

The hardest part to sand and to get right were the back fenders just behind the door and the areas around the headlights. I had to use a 6" cut pool noodle for those areas.

Overall, I'm pleased with the parting lines. There are still some areas that need tweaking, but it went well and is confidence building.

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We took a break from the parting lines and started gapping the hood. We are setting the gap at 3/16". We are using paint sticks that are 3/16" to hold the gap and it is perfect. Needless to say, setting the gap was a nice change from block sanding for 6 hours!!!

We only got the top of the hood gap set, but it looks so much better. The hood was rubbing at that point, so having a gap makes a world of difference.

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Let me know what you think. I hope we went wife enough on the body filler, but I'm not sure. It feels right when I run my hand over it and it looks right when I sight down along the curves so I think it was the right amount...

Total time up to this point: 26 hours

Total time includes removing all the hardware, deep cleaning the car, etc.

Jeff Kleiner

01-30-2023, 11:30 AM

After 15+ years and scores of windshield installations I have learned a few things that help make it pretty simple. If you tap the windshield side posts you don’t have to deal with a nut. Driver’s side simply drop the fuse panel and you can get to the bolts with a 3/8 ratchet and deep socket—-no need for extensions and universals. If you have an air ratchet it’s even easier! Passenger side is easy to reach from over the fender HOWEVER if the area is loaded full of heater and wiper motor you have full access from the RF wheel well with the tire and splash panel removed. Whatever you do don’t forget to shim as needed between the side posts and chassis!

Jeff

hineas

01-30-2023, 02:09 PM

Jeff Kleiner

01-30-2023, 05:21 PM

Thanks Jeff. I didn't remove the fuse box and that was mistake. I'll definitely remove the fuse box for windshield installation! Passenger side took me about 2 minutes.

Soon I'm going to start talking the doors. I have seen different techniques to build up the driver's door so it matches the rest of the body. I have used your suggestions on getting it close, but the top front doesn't line up at all. Same with the bottom, but it isn't at bad. Do you just build up the difference with Rage Gold? Do I use HSRF for a better base? I also will sand down the body some too help.

I have seen somebody else that split the inner and outer layers of the door and put spacers between to raise the top edge as well. What are you recommendations?

The doors are where the time and money is. Some things you need to know...we have two things going on. On one hand we're trying to match the door to the body but on the other we are matching the body to the door. On both sides of the car the body takes a dive into the gap at the front of the doors. You'll also find that the radius where the body curves downward at the front of the doors is not the same as the radius on the doors. The doors don't make a smooth transition to the cowl at the front on either side and the top of the doors do not match the cowl.

Body and hinge adjustment is a big part of it and involves a lot of back & forth, up & down and in & out to get both the doors and body into the best position before you ever break out the filler and then more of the same as you work on shaping, mudding and sanding to get the shapes to match and the body sides in a nice flat plane. I've never split a door; it can all be done with adjustments and just good old bodywork. In the early days we sometimes filled the lower front of the doors but with careful adjustment and positioning that isn't necessary.

Before you start fitting the doors get the body secured to it's initial position---ahead of the doors push the rockers all the way in, on the passenger side push the rocker almost all the way in in front of the rear wheel and on the driver's side pull it out about 1/2" in front of the rear wheel. After scuffing everything and getting the body initially positioned I start by creating the roll where the inside and outside of the door meets at the top. Grind the ridge off and spread HSRF in the valley. After it cures I put down Rage Gold along the full length and use a section of rubber hose, about 2" diameter and 3-4" long cupped in my palm and pulled from back to front. After the first round of filler initial shaping gets done with 40 grit. I'm often a visual learner and subscribe to the picture is worth a thousand words school so I'll add some while trying to describe a bit of the process.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178993&d=1590841390

When installing the door on the driver's side put a fat 3/8" washer (approximately .080-.090 thick) on the lower front stud between the hinge and door. When you crank down on the 4 bolts this puts a nice spring into the door frame which improves it's fit. No such shim is needed on the passenger side. As I said earlier you're going to play with hinge adjustments---in a little at the top, out a little at the bottom, then up, then down then in some more, then back out, then raise the front of the door then lower the back---it goes on and on and on like this!!!! Along with this you'll probably loosen your fasteners and bring the body's rockers in or out to better meet the lower edge of the door. Lots and lots of give and take and also lots of compromise because usually if you improve the fit one area it worsens another!

Once you're satisfied with the fit and the mud starts flowing the areas that consistently need attention are the tops of the doors and cowl, first to get them to meet at the top and also to create a flowing curve where the top of the door wraps around to the cowl above the dash. The other is to match the body to the doors' radius at the top front where the surfaces roll from horizontal to vertical. Here are a few pics that should give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Some of these are from different cars but really, they all wind up looking just about the same because they all have the same issues.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=137731&d=1605481165

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112083&d=1565312699

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=112082&d=1565312693

The goal is to make all of the contours and shapes flow so that in the end we wind up with curves that match and flat surfaces that create nice reflections that don't look like a fun house mirror!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=134834&d=1591639601

Feel free to fire away if you've got questions.

Jeff

cc2Arider

01-30-2023, 06:11 PM

Thanks Jeff!

You are a real treasure in this forum -- helpful, with perspective and humility :)

Craig C

hineas

01-31-2023, 01:54 AM

Thank you, Jeff! Tomorrow I am going to spend some time on the driver side door using your tips.

I have read multiple of your posts explaining how to get it aligned, and I think I'm starting to wrap my head around it. We will see how it goes tomorrow.

I spent several hours on the doors when I first hung them. I think I am close, but I need to tweak it a little more.

The passenger door is almost perfect. The top front corner by the windshield needs some mud, but that is about it.

Today I worked on setting the gaps on the hood, trunk, and passenger door. I got some rubber bumpers to raise the hood a bit and it is almost perfect now. However, the passenger corner near the windshield is a bit high but everything else is level. I'll have to play with it some more.

Here is the hood after sanding the gap to 3/16". Ignore the passenger side, it is actually the right gap but I didn't blow off the dust before the picture so it doesn't look as crisp.

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The passenger door went quick. The bottom of the door was already at 3/16" from the factory. Sadly, some parts of the bottom edge are close to 1/4". I might have to build that edge up a bit, we will see. In the picture of the passenger door you can see that the top front corner needs to be built up, but everything else lines up amazingly well.

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Next I moved onto the trunk. Jeff's modification of the rear body mount made it easy getting the rear trunk edge to line up. I had to sand a ton off of each edge because the trunk lid was rubbing on all 4 sides. But now the trunk open and closes like butter!

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I only spent about 3-4 hours on the car today, but I feel like I got a lot accomplished. Tomorrow I will work on tweaking the driver's door. If time permits I'll set the gap and start mudding the doors.

Sadly my brother was too busy with work today so he couldn't help much. He did help me adjust the rubber bumpers for the hood so it was flush and helped sand the gap on the hood. It is really nice to share the sanding with somebody else!

Total time up to this point: 30 hours

cc2Arider

01-31-2023, 11:39 AM

It might've been mentioned already in another post...apologies in advance.

Do you use regular ol' fender washers for the rear body mounts? Any rubber gasket between the washers?

Craig C

hineas

01-31-2023, 12:29 PM

hineas

01-31-2023, 02:21 PM

It might've been mentioned already in another post...apologies in advance.

Do you use regular ol' fender washers for the rear body mounts? Any rubber gasket between the washers?

Craig C

I don't know what other people did, but I used rubber washers between the body and the fender washer.

Jeff Kleiner

01-31-2023, 03:55 PM

When we fit the driver's door initially I spent several hours tweaking it to get it close to the right position. The only part I couldn't get in an acceptable position was the top front corner.

Before I start messing with the door again, I wanted to ask if I need to raise the door or if I just deal with it because the other 3 corners are in a great position?

Too low. Bring it up so the top of the 90 degree break over curve is at the same height—-as I said in an earlier reply the radius won’t match but you want to start with the horizontal surfaces the same. When you raise the front to get this area closer the rear of the door will be too high. Keep the upper front door bolt snug and loosen the other three then bump the rear edge of the door down (pivoting it around that upper top door stud) to meet the body. After all of this the front “triangle” of the door still won’t meet the cowl but you will address that when you start putting on the filler. Told ya’ that there’s lots of give and take ;)

Jeff

hineas

01-31-2023, 03:57 PM

That is exactly what I needed. Thanks!

I'm on my way out to the car to apply what I have learned.

hineas

01-31-2023, 05:29 PM

Those tips were perfect, Jeff. Thank you so much.

I spent about an hour on the door. Now the curve of the body lines up with the curve of the door. All 4 corners of the door either line up or are less than 1/16" to lining up. I am so happy with how the door is set now. Thank you!

The only part that will require any real filler is the top triangle where it meets the rolled edge at the dash.

Here is the before picture:
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Here are the after pictures:

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hineas

01-31-2023, 07:09 PM

I'm working on trimming the lip around the fenders. On the front, can I trim off the corner at the bottom that is behind the tire? I have the elephant ears installed up front and this is a just a ridge that is going to catch mud...

This is the corner I'm talking about:

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Jeff Kleiner

02-01-2023, 09:29 AM

Looking good on the position. If you look rearward from ahead of the door you’ll probably see the radius mismatch…

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179079&d=1675259085

And when looking down from above it should be apparent how the body dives inward towards the door opening…

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179080&d=1675259085

Here is how I trim back the lower return at the rear of the wheel opening.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179081&d=1675259085

I also clean up the wonky, squiggly line between the front of the wheel opening over to the oil cooler scoop.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179082&d=1675259085

Carry on :)

Jeff

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GoDadGo

02-01-2023, 10:49 AM

You've got the best guy giving you the best advice you could possibly get.

Here are some Sir Jeffski approved videos when my pal Sammy and I did my car.
Just understand that my door solution was NOT approved by Jeff but it worked nicely.
Shown below is the work we did using Jeff's advice and extreme knowledge of these cars:

https://youtu.be/_3sLamdkIFg

https://youtu.be/meBYeI96_A8

https://youtu.be/6QXWP5H8mT0

https://youtu.be/6UK6K2jcwTU

https://youtu.be/po1Bb2_XDDk

https://youtu.be/FVMCA4_UZHU

https://youtu.be/9WEe6-wdNtA

Good Luck, Happy Smoothing, Filling, Sanding, Gapping & Painting!

hineas

02-01-2023, 01:04 PM

Thanks Jeff! Like so many others have said before me, you are definitely increasing the quality of our body work.

GoDadGo, I have watched your videos several times. They are great!

Lidodrip

02-01-2023, 07:40 PM

hineas

02-02-2023, 12:40 AM

Thanks for taking the time to document this process, this is extremely helpful (and timely for my build). Also, thank you to Jeff Kleiner and GoDadGo for their guidance and insight - makes this process much more enjoyable.

James

Absolutely! I'm glad it is helpful!

hineas

02-02-2023, 01:24 AM

I didn't post yesterday on everything we accomplished. I did post that I got the door alignment where it was acceptable to me. The doors even open and close better too!

I ended up doing the adjustments with the door closed and latched. Then I reached in and loosened the bolts just enough that I could tweak the position with medium force. I was able to do a little adjustment on each section and kept working my way around the door until everything lined up fairly well. Then I tightened the hinge and door studs.

I also used a washer under the lower front stud between the door and the hinge as Jeff recommended. I had three washers of different thickness and I ended up using one a little thinner than Jeff suggested. The thicker ones kicked out the bottom rear corner of the door too much.

I did run into one issue on the door. I am not sure what happened when we installed the doors the first time, but we destroyed the threads on one of the studs on the door. When I was removing the acorn nut it was completely bound. I had to use an impact wrench to get it off. When I got it off the threads were completely destroyed!

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I think what happened was that the acorn nut was bottomed out and we (probably me) torqued it too far a year ago. Luckily only the last few threads were gone and the rest were still good. I was able to find a nut that fit perfectly on the undamaged threads.

After I got the doors positioned I moved on to trimming the lip on the fender. I left about 1/4" past the rolled edge. I ended up using a dremel with a grinding wheel because that is what I had available. It is hard getting a straight cut with a dremel, so I ended up leaving a bit extra and block sanded it down so it was straight. The other issue was that my eye protection would get completely covered in dust every 6" of cutting and I would have to stop to clean my eye protection.

The fenders look so much better now they are trimmed and sanded. I still need to trim the corner behind the front tires, but that should be simple and quick.

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Today we moved on to some touch up work. We spent quite a bit of time feeling every single curve. We found several spots that were ever so slightly low or high. We did more sanding. We did a few more layers of Rage Gold. Then we sanded some more. Then another layer of mud. Then more sanding.

Did i mention that we sanded some more? I'm amazed there is any car left after all the sanding!!!

We also played with a laser leveler and moved the laser line along the curves. The laser line showed the curves nicely and also showed where we had flat spots or uneven spots. I did find, however, that running our hands (with nitrile gloves to keep oils off the body) over the body was more sensitive and reliable than the laser.

I also spent some time on the louver cutouts. We had the factory cutouts, but the curve at the corners was uneven and bumpy and the lines were wavy. I was able to use a straight, thin sanding block with 80 grit paper to fix the lines. Now the lines are straight and the corners are smooth. I also took some 80 grit and ran it along the edge so it has a slight radius and isn't sharp. I have done this to every edge on the fiberglass

Next we turned our attention to the doors once again. We sanded down the ridge on the inner, upper edge. Then we filled and built up the entire edge with HSRF. Then I used a round edge (essentially a pipe cut in half lengthwise) and created a nice radius along the edge with Rage Gold. After sanding it down we now have a great starting point for the rolled edge. We need another layer of filler because it isn't even yet, but it looks so much better with the round edge.

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Tomorrow we plan on finishing the rolled edge on the door, then start building up the front upper corner and edges of the doors that don't perfectly line up. If time permits, we will also work on the cutouts for the pipes because those lines are nowhere near to straight.

Total time up to this point: 36 hours

Total amount of dust created: immeasurable

GoDadGo

02-02-2023, 10:39 AM

hineas

02-02-2023, 11:46 AM

Agreed!!!

hineas

02-03-2023, 12:50 AM

Today we cleaned up the side pipes openings. We ended up widening the passenger side a little because the back edge was almost touching the pipes. We then straightened up the cuts we made last year to make the holes look finished. That was a quick job, less than 30 minutes.

Next we started filling up the doors. We did a few more layers on the rolled upper edge. We also started building up the front corner where it meets the rolled edge above the dash. We did several layers to build it up. The driver's side is built up the right amount but the passenger needs a tiny bit more.

That corner is tough to sand properly. There are several curves that all come together at that spot and so it is hard to get the curves just right. We worked on mudding and sanding the doors for about 2 hours each. I did the passenger side and my brother did the driver's side.

The passenger door is almost done. All the edges line up perfectly now except the top corner by the dash. We should finish that up tomorrow.

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The driver's door still needs some mud along the bottom front and bottom rear corners.

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Once we get the doors done, the only big project remaining is the hood scoop. We also have a few edges to still clean up and some minor touch up. Then we will sand everything down to the recommended grit prior to Feather Fill.

Sadly, the hood scoop was accidentally left at my brother's house 300 miles away so that will have to wait.

Total time: 41 hours

GoDadGo

02-03-2023, 08:42 AM

Hey Freddy, How Does The Car Look?

...........https://youtu.be/k0AuipqPqsU

.....Happy Filling, Smoothing & Sanding!

Jeff Kleiner

02-03-2023, 08:55 AM

Coming together!

Let me know if you’d like some hood scoop tips (besides not to leave it 300 miles away :p)

Jeff

magicmarto

02-03-2023, 10:26 AM

Jeff Kleiner

02-03-2023, 05:01 PM

Martin,
It’s being shown to others to serve as a bad example…kind of like they did with me in high school!

Jeff

hineas

02-03-2023, 09:24 PM

Coming together!

Let me know if you’d like some hood scoop tips (besides not to leave it 300 miles away :p)

Jeff

I snorted pretty loud when I read this tip. Thanks for the laugh.

The real answer is yes, I would love some tips if you have time. I know you have put it elsewhere in the forum and I was going to find those posts.

There is absolutely no rush since we won't get to the hood scoop for at least a month if not longer. What typically happens is that my brother and I get a week booked to spend a ton of time on the car. We get a ton done in that week, but then it sits for 1-2 months before the next stretch.

hineas

02-04-2023, 12:56 AM

It might not feel like we got a lot accomplished today, but the doors are essentially finished. We still have to gap the driver's door, but otherwise they are mudded and sanded and the curves are flowing well.

We spent about 2.5 hours each today on the doors. It was a lot of sanding, then putting more body filler on, then sanding, then filler, etc. This sure is an expensive way to make dust!

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We are quite pleased with how the body is turning out. Sadly, this is the last night we had to work on it for now. I don't expect much to happen during the next month.

Total time: 46 hours

GoDadGo

02-04-2023, 07:52 AM

hineas

02-06-2023, 12:37 AM

Make sure you really look hard at the body where it meets the front of the doors...My body dove in a pretty good bit so please check yours with a straight edge to make sure it is okay...This was something Jeff really had me pay attention to and it made the final product come out really nice.

Final Bodywork Video:
https://youtu.be/po1Bb2_XDDk

Good Luck & Happy Sanding!

Thanks for the tip. The door does dive down at that point. The passenger door isn't bad at all, but the driver's side body dove down quite a bit at the top of the front edge. We still need to build it up a bit but the body filler has really helped. You can see that we built up both sides at the top of the driver's door in this picture. I think it still needs more. (Ignore the large divots in the filler in the picture, we fixed those already)

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I'll see if I can get a picture of both doors with a straight edge so we can see how much I need to build it up.

GoDadGo

02-06-2023, 08:19 AM

Nearly everyone on the forum hated dealing with the doors, especially the drivers side.

hineas

02-06-2023, 10:55 AM

Ha ha ha. We have spent probably 15+ hours on the doors! Luckily it was split up between two people so it didn't feel as bad.

I took some pictures at the front edge of the driver's door. We are pretty close. It still dives in a touch, but not as bad a when we started.

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We didn't have much dive on the passenger side. It was slightly high about 1/2" in front of the door. It was close enough I took a long durablock and sanded it down. It is pretty close now. Here is a picture of the passenger door front edge.

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We still aren't finished with the doors. We still have to touch up the Rage Gold along the bottom rear corner of the driver's door. We also have to build up the gap on the bottom of both doors. The gap on the bottom edge has areas where it is about 1/4" wide and looks uneven. My question is if it is better to build up the door edge or the body side of the gap? We were planning on building up the body side since it would be stronger and less likely to break off than the door edge.

We also ended up putting in a few more hours on Saturday morning. I sanded the passenger door and my brother evened out the driver's front and lower edge. We also did some touch up on the parting lines, evened out around the head cap, and fixed the parting lines in the trunk and door gaps. I ended up finding a fairly big void at the trunk gap on the body. I built it up but ran out of time to finish fixing the void.

Total time: 49 hours

hineas

02-06-2023, 07:06 PM

I have been planning what I need for paint.

First question: I plan on using a PPG 2K urethane paint. From my research it looks like a P100 respirator isn't sufficient. Do you recommend a supplied air respirator system?

Second, I just stopped by my local paint shop (NCS). It looks like they only have Feather Fill and not Slick Sand. I live in a rural area so to get Slick Sand I would have to order it online. Is three difference with slick sand worth the hassle of dealing with online shipping or do I go with Feather Fill?

Jeff Kleiner

02-07-2023, 09:31 AM

...We also have to build up the gap on the bottom of both doors. The gap on the bottom edge has areas where it is about 1/4" wide and looks uneven. My question is if it is better to build up the door edge or the body side of the gap? We were planning on building up the body side since it would be stronger and less likely to break off than the door edge.

I agree. I sometimes get cars that the owner has gotten a little carried away with trimming and my preference is to make the hole smaller rather than the hinged panel bigger. I do a certain amount of building up in the openings as a matter of course anyway because I like to sharpen up the exaggerated radius where the body side turns into the door jambs. If you look at some of the pics I posted earlier you can see the filler.

I have been planning what I need for paint.

First question: I plan on using a PPG 2K urethane paint. From my research it looks like a P100 respirator isn't sufficient. Do you recommend a supplied air respirator system?

Second, I just stopped by my local paint shop (NCS). It looks like they only have Feather Fill and not Slick Sand. I live in a rural area so to get Slick Sand I would have to order it online. Is three difference with slick sand worth the hassle of dealing with online shipping or do I go with Feather Fill?

A P100 is just a dust mask for particulates and won't do anything for organic vapors or Isocyanates. You can never be TOO safe but my choice is to use a half face respirator with 3M 60921 or 60923 cartridges (60923 also protects against acid gas which we don't really need but since events of 2020 sometimes that's all that's available). Sure, supplied air offers more protection and would certainly be required in a production environment with all day, every day exposure. I don't go that far but we all make our choices...

After using both Slick Sand and Feather Fill my preference is SS. It builds more (4.0-6.0 mils per coat vs 2.0-4.0 for FeatherFill G2) and sands easier---with "easier" being a relative term :D. SS costs about 25% more and you'll use 2 gallons. Do the math and make your decision. If you buy on line you're going to need to get friendly with your paint supplier and maybe even slip him a couple of bucks to put it on his shaker before you use it---it's about 60% solids by volume (FF is similar) and all of that will be settled to the bottom. You'd have to dig and stir for days to get it fully mixed!

Hope that helps!

Jeff

hineas

02-07-2023, 08:32 PM

That is exactly what I needed, Jeff. Thanks!

hineas

03-21-2023, 10:53 AM

We finally got more time to work on the car.

We moved onto the hood scoop this week as well as worked on the door gaps.

I put some Rage Gold on the body side of the door opening to make the gap smaller. The rear corner on the passenger door and the front corner on the driver door were cut too much from the factory and the gap was just over 1/4". I built those up and smoothed it out. I'm much closer, but it still needs a little more. I also found a few low spots on the parting seams and touched those up too.

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I didn't assume time researching the hood scoop. I found a few threads on the forum where Jeff recommended not following the FFR instructions for the hood scoop hole. These are the measurements I found that he posted in a few other threads (this is Jeff Kleiner's picture):

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We marked the hole and played with the scoop. Cutting that big of a hole is a little nerve racking! We chickened out and cut it 1/4" smaller. Hopefully that won't be a big deal.

We smoothed it all out and sanded all the gel coat that will needed sanding with 80 grit. I tried stuffing HSRF down between the layers to bind them together where it wasn't bonded well. Then we sanded that down then put rage gold along the edge to smooth it out a bit. I think it turned out fairly well.

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We laid the hood back on. Funny how the hole, hood, engine, and body just don't like up. As Jeff said in other threads, the hole size is small enough you can move the scoop around enough so it is centered from the outside. The big benefit of doing the hole this way is that the hole is centered on the underside of the hood so it looks normal when the hood is up.

I'm quite pleased with how it turned out so far. Once the scoop is in place and the hood is closed, you can't see the hole is offset. When the hood is open and you look at the underside of the hood it looks centered as well. Another bonus was that this measurements from Jeff were a heck of a lot easier than the FFR instructions.

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I assume the next part is to drill the holes for the hood scoop? This is my plan:

1) Reattach hood
2) Find the centerline. I plan on doing this by stretching a string from the center of the license plate housing to the center of the front between the headlights. From there I will adjust the center line to make sure it is centered between the dual roll bars. Then I'll look at it and make sure it looks centered. I have seen both Jeffs say that you have to trust your eye with these cars!
3) once I find the center of the body, I'll center the hood scoop then drill holes according to FFR instructions.

Does that plan sound right? We already have the gaps set and the final position of the hood figured out. I assume we still the holes for the hood scoop now instead of after paint.

Once we have the hood scoop position set and the door gaps finalized, we will take the body off. Then we will start sanding with a guide coat and prepping for slick sand.

Total time: 57 hours

Jeff Kleiner

03-21-2023, 12:09 PM

Good job on the scoop hole!

A couple of tips: For the scoop fastener holes I start 1" back from the leading edge of the scoop then go 2 3/8" down both sides. Mark it out with a compass or caliper before drilling. It should get you to where the spacing down both sides intersects just about dead on the rear center as you come around; if not adjust your spacing on the last 2 or 3 just a tiny bit---like about 1/16" more or less as necessary. Your eye won't notice.

NOW THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING YOUR EYES WILL NOTICE! If you are doing stripes do not drill the rear center hole until after paint. If you do it before and the stripes and fastener end up off center from one another it'll look like this one (not one of mine):

https://www.ffcars.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=192 0,fit=scale-down/https://www.ffcars.com/attachments/img_6784-jpg.370011/

I don't know about you but that kind of thing would keep me up at night! If you're not doing stripes you can forget all about that part :D

Good luck!

Jeff

hineas

03-21-2023, 12:44 PM

Thank you! I totally would have drilled the center hole and made that same mistake. Yes, that would have bothered me.

Too bad that picture wasn't yours. I was going to ask the color. That is the exact color scheme we are looking for!

Jeff Kleiner

03-21-2023, 01:39 PM

Too bad that picture wasn't yours. I was going to ask the color. That is the exact color scheme we are looking for!

The owner used the exact same color that I used when I did this one for Scott Donnelly "Sdonnel" a couple of years ago:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154665&d=1634839380

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154667&d=1634839469

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=154668&d=1634839557

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=161319&d=1643314757

It's "Randyapplered 3", a custom mix basecoat by Randy Borcherding at Painthouse in Texas www.painthousetx.com
I used Nissan Pearl White tricoat (QAC) for the stripes...not sure but I think the other car was done with a different white.

Jeff

cc2Arider

03-21-2023, 03:05 PM

Nice work! With Mentors like Jeff and you showing how you're doing, you give hope to me that I can try this, too :)

Craig C

hineas

03-21-2023, 04:04 PM

Thanks Jeff! That color is sure tempting. Do you remember if it is a hard color to paint and get doors to match.
I'm not sure which white we will do, but I don't think that will be a hard of a decision as the red.

Craig, I spoke to a guy that built a different brand kit (no longer available). His comment about the body work was, "it is fiberglass, you can always fans it down and try again." I feel like it is more of a test of patience than anything else. We are 57 hours into it and I think about 50 of those hours are sanding by hand... I have essentially no history of doing body work, but I feel like we are doing a pretty good job for our first time.

egchewy79

03-21-2023, 04:09 PM

That red is amazing I’ll admit. Just wait until you see the price tag on that color however…

Jeff Kleiner

03-21-2023, 05:55 PM

Thanks Jeff! That color is sure tempting. Do you remember if it is a hard color to paint and get doors to match.
I'm not sure which white we will do, but I don't think that will be a hard of a decision as the red.

I've done 2 roadsters with this color; Scott's with pearl white and the other with silver/gray color matched to the Halibrand wheel centers. It is indeed spectacular!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181916&d=1679439183

Although it appears to be a 3 stage candy it is in fact a special formula base/clear (my supplier and I kind of reverse engineered it and now know what Randy's secret is ;)) which is no more difficult to spray than any other modern color that has a lot of flake and pearl in the mix. That's the good news. Chewy alluded to the shocking news---it's currently >$3,200/gallon!

Jeff

hineas

03-22-2023, 12:05 AM

We put in a few hours today and made some good progress.

We finished the gaps on the doors. We built up the outer edge of the door opening some more to make up for the over-trimming from the factory. The gaps look so much better now. The pictures don't do it justice because the color difference between the body and the Rage Gold makes it look uneven.

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181925

We worked some more on the hood. We got the outer and inner layers bonded together and all smoothed out. Then we reattached the hood. We then spent some time finding the centerline of the body. Once that was done, we started figuring out where we wanted the hood scoop. While doing that we realized we made a mistake.

We all know the old adage, "measure twice and cut once." Well, in the hood scoop hole we measured 17 times and cut once. We were feeling pretty good about it until we were standing at the back of the car with the good open. The hole wasn't centered in the underside indentation!!! We honestly measured it at least a dozen times...

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If you look closely at the above picture, you can see the hole is shifted to the left any 1/2". Luckily we cut the hole 1/4" smaller on each side than Jeff recommended. That meant we could widen the hole 1/2" to the right and it would be the size he recommended. We got lucky on that one!

Once we recut the hole we went back to figuring out placement of the hood scoop. We spent over an hour just looking at it and moving out an 1/8" at a time.

We then drilled the hood scoop and the hood and I think it looks great! We used the spacing Jeff recommended and it worked well.

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We had to call it a night after we attached the hood scoop. I'm pleased with the progress. We are getting so close to the slick sand stage. It will be exciting to see it all one color again!!!

Total time: 60 hours

hineas

03-22-2023, 03:07 PM

I do have one question.

We are essentially done with body filler. We need to re-finish the edge of the hood scoop hole, but that is the last area of filler before we start prepping for the high build primer.

We are going to pull the body off, perhaps today, and progressively sand up to the recommended grit for the slick sand. Currently our body is completely sanded at 80 grit.

My question is if we need to do anything to the underside of the body?

I have seen several people do truck bed liner. I have seen people line the wheel wells with a thin foam. The big concern is rocks hitting the inner aspect of the body and causing stars in the paint. The other concern I have seen is that the body is partly transparent and if the sun is just right (basically if the sun or a bright light is shining on the inner side of the body, which I don't see being an issue) it can cause the paint to look strange.

How big of an issue are these concerns? Have people that left the underside of the body completely unfinished actually have these or other issues? The reason I ask is because if I need to coat the underside with something, I want to do it before I spray slick sand.

egchewy79

03-22-2023, 03:30 PM

I used roll on truck liner stuff. IIRC I used a water based product from duplicolor. I put 2 coats on but did 3-4 in the wheel wells to prevent star cracks from below.

hineas

03-23-2023, 09:27 AM

Last night we did a little more. We finished smoothing out the hood scoop hole and it looks so much better.

Next, we removed all the hardware from the body that was all in place. We removed the body mounts, hood, trunk, doors, gas cap, etc.

While removing the passenger door we had the same issue as the driver door. I'm convinced it was due to the acorn nuts not being deep enough for the length of the studs. I'm pretty sure we bottomed out the stud in the nut and then over torqued it. I suspect the pressure caused some severe galling. The front two studs had no issues but the rear two studs were completely seized. We didn't struggle putting them on and used just a normal sized ratchet. I don't remember having to use excessive force either. However, even with my big ratchet I was unable to remove the nuts. I had to use my air impact wrench. That removed the nuts easily, but it also twisted off the studs.

The good news is the top stud has just enough thread left to still use a nut and have all the threads engaged.

The bad news is that the bottom stud is only long enough for one thread to be engaged in the nut.

181944

We debated what to do next. We already spent several hours building up the door, sanding, etc. We really didn't want to have to do that over again so decided that getting a new door would not be ideal. We talked about grinding the plate down to allow more threads to be engaged, but decided against that. We ultimately decided that once paint is finished, we will install the door then tack weld the stud to the hinge plate to hold it in place. We reattached the door and we could get the door positioned correctly and securely with just three of the nuts installed. This should allow for enough strength to make it work.

We bought some Herculiner to coat the underside of the body. That is our next step. Then we will sand the parts of the body we couldn't get to, use some glazing putty to fill in pinholes, then spray the slick sand!

The sad part is that our day jobs will get in the way and we might not be able to do any more work until end of May.

Total time: 62 hours.

Jeff Kleiner

03-23-2023, 10:29 AM

Yuck! Sorry to hear that. I've had that happen twice with the acorn nuts when cars have come to me with them installed. I don't trust the little bastages and wait to install them until assembly is done after paint. I just use regular open nuts during mockup and even when doing final assembly and adjustment then change them out---one at a time. Too late for you now unfortunately but for anyone who might see this in the future; if you feel it starting to gall stop! Break out the Dremel with a cut off wheel and split the nut down the middle, parallel to the stud. Once the two halves are off and the door is removed run a die over the stud to clean up the threads and you should be good to go.

Jeff

hineas

03-23-2023, 11:16 AM

hineas

03-23-2023, 11:54 AM

Salty Chief 35

03-23-2023, 05:25 PM

Thanks for this thread. I’ve found it very interesting and great resource for hopeful future build.
Respectfully
Jeremie

Jeff Kleiner

03-24-2023, 09:19 AM

As above, we are getting close to start the spraying process. It is looking like we will have 8 days at the end of May and beginning of June to work again. I am trying to get everything planned and ready so we don't hit as many snags and delays during that time, since the next window to paint will be July or August. I am going to stop by the paint supplier soon and discuss with them timing on when to actually buy the paint. I'd hate to be delayed due to not having the paint available...

Here is my current plan, but let me know if you recommend any changes. Also, I have bolded all of my questions that I am trying to figure out.

1) Coat the underside with Herculiner. I am going to do this on my own before my brother comes out.

2) Fix pinholes in the Rage Gold with some glazing putty.

3) Sand with progressively finer grits until 320.

4) Spray the Polyester Primer Surfacer (Slick Sand vs Feather Fill). From what I can see on the forum and on Jeff's previous comment in this thread, I will get 2 gallons.

Although I like the idea of the thicker build of Slick Sand, it is looking like we will might go with Feather Fill. The main reasons are that I can get Feather Fill locally, and more importantly, my primer spray gun is a 1.8mm tip. When I look at the TDS for both, the Feather Fill requires a 1.7mm-2.2mm tip but the Slick sand requires at least a 2.0mm tip. I'm going to see how much getting a different sized tip is going to cost, so we still might go with Slick Sand.

Prior to the polyester primer, do you clean with acetone, a wax and degreaser, or both? The TDS says to use acetone on bare fiberglass. It says for pre-painted surfaces to use a wax/degreaser. It says for body filler to just spray with an air gun.

5) Sand down the polyester primer surfacer and respray as needed. In another thread, Jeff K. recommended to block smooth with 150 grit? Is this correct? I figure I will look at the TDS for the 2K primer to see what grit to use.

6) Spray 3 coats of 2K catalyzed Urethane Primer Surfacer. Block smooth with 320 dry then 600 wet.

7) 1 full coat of catalyzed Urethane sealer. Sand off the nibs with 1000 grit.

8) Base coat (number of coats and type to be determine once we decide on exact color and line of paint). I am planning on using PPG. I know Jeff often uses Shopline, but my PPG distributor doesn't carry that line. Any recommendations on which line to use for the primer, base, and clear?

9) Clear coat

Now for a few more specifics. Our plan is that once we start spraying the 2K primer, we will be committed to getting the spraying done in the next several days. I want to make sure I have a good bond between the layers.

Does it make sense to spray the 2K primer and the 2K sealer on the same day, then the base coat the next day, and then the clear coat the next day?

In the past I have wet sanded the clear coat to get rid of the orange peel that happens from spraying. I started with 1000 grit, then 1500, then 2000, then buffed with great results. Do you recommend doing this? And if so, how long after the clear is sprayed before you cut and buff?

Am I missing anything?

Lots going on here so I'll try to hit the high points.

#3 Three passes of Slick Sand will bury 80 grit scratches. Additionally I like the tighter bond and mechanical grip that the coarser tooth provides.

#4 If your supplier can get FF I would think that they can also get SS; both are made by Evercoat. As for tip size, yes you'll want to shoot either through at least a 2.0. Know what? You can turn your 1.8 (or anything else) into a 2.1-2.2 by running a #44 drill through it. The tapered needle will still seat. That's what I did years ago and am still using that same gun to this day. 2.2mm= .0866", #44 drill is .0860"---close enough! Prior to polyester I blow everything off, wipe with wax & grease remover---don't flood it; dunk a cloth in a container of W&G and wring it out. Give it at least a few hours of dry time.

#5 Yes, block 150 dry. Evercoat will recommend going to 400 but again I like the mechanical tooth to supplement the chemical bond between the Polyester and Urethane and three coats is plenty of build to bury the 150 scratch.

#6&7 Yes...BUT...the sealer goes on just before basecoat. It has to be covered with base within 72 hours (and I don't even wait that long) to assure a good chemical bond. Get outside of that window and you run the risk of adhesion issues.

#8 Shopline is exclusive to PPG's "Platinum Distributors" but is exactly the same as the Omni line of products sold by the regular distributors. It's just rebranded. Shopline JP202 2K primer surfacer is Omni MP282. Shopline JP335 or JP337 sealer is Omni MP235 or MP237. Shopline Plus basecoat is JBP; Omni Plus basecoat is MBP. PPG's high end Deltron base is DBC and is sold by all distributors. Some colors produce better results in Deltron, others are perfectly fine in Plus. You're going to do a minimum of 3 coats of base. The color of the undercoat/sealer can come into play for coverage and color accuracy---PPG has recommendations for what each color should go over and sometimes it seems counterintuitive (like putting a bright silver over black!). Ever since my long time favorite clear quit being produced last year (and I burned up the stash of it that my distributor set aside for me!) I've been using Deltron DCU2021 and like it. It sprays out well and cuts & buffs well. Like with the sealer you have a recoat window to be mindful of---PPG basecoats need to be under clear within 24 hours.

Hope that helps!

Jeff

hineas

03-25-2023, 11:58 AM

Thank you!!!!!!!!

You, my friend, are a gentleman and a scholar.

You saved me some time sanding to 320 grit before slick sand. I'll go into the shop this week and ask them to order some slick sand.

I will definitely drill out my tip for the slick sand.

We will also make sure we have enough days in a row to go from primer to clear without causing adhesion issues by waiting to long.

Thanks again!

hineas

05-23-2023, 11:28 PM

I haven't updated in a while, but life has been busy so no work has been done.

On a plus side, next week we are going to start spraying paint!

Per Jeff's recommendations, I found a dealer 45 minutes away that carries Slick Sand and I bought 2 gallons.

We have 7-8 days in a row that we can work on the car. We are going to get all the way to the clear. I hope that isn't too hasty, but I think it's is doable, especially since I have no plans and can put in 14-16 hour days for 7 days straight.

Wish us luck!

SliderJack

05-26-2023, 02:38 PM

Good luck and thanks for the thread thus far. It's been helpful!!!

cc2Arider

05-26-2023, 04:30 PM

Good Luck! I'm anxious to see some pictures :)

Craig C

hineas

05-26-2023, 09:03 PM

I will be buying paint on Monday. How much paint do you typically buy for the primer, sealer, base, and clear?

Jeff Kleiner

05-27-2023, 05:05 AM

I will be buying paint on Monday. How much paint do you typically buy for the primer, sealer, base, and clear?

2 gallons polyester high build (Slick Sand or equivalent), 1 gallon 2K urethane primer surfacer + catalyst + reducer, 2 quarts urethane sealer + catalyst + reducer, 1 gallon basecoat + reducer (if doing stripes you'll need a quart of that color also), 1 gallon of clear + hardener and reducer as applicable. There will be some variation in the quantities of reducer and catalyst/activator depending on the manufacturer so check with your supplier. Be mindful of the time windows as you proceed; for example sealer often needs to be covered by base within 72 hours and base usually needs to be under clear within 24 hours but this too can vary among manufacturers.

Good luck!

Jeff

hineas

05-27-2023, 06:24 AM

That's exactly what I needed. Thank you Jeff!

We have 7 (potentially 8 if needed) days to get things done. I am hopeful that is enough time to get each step done in the time required. Thanks for the reminder, we will check with the MDS and the supplier to make sure we are staying in the correct time windows. Also, we don't have anything scheduled during those days so we can put in LONG days if needed to get it done. Weather is perfect and we are dying to get it back on the road, so that is great motivation as well!

hineas

05-29-2023, 11:00 PM

We finally started work today. It was rough because I worked night shift and then put in a 14 hour day today on the car. I'm worn out but we got a ton done.

First we emptied out the garage. I still have a few things to take out, but it is mainly tools we are using.

Once we got the garage more or less empty we cleaned the garage floor. We then took the body off and put it upside down for bed liner. We ended up using Herculiner.

We cleaned the body, lightly scuffed with 80 grit, then cleaned with MEK. We laid down two coats of body liner and it looks great.

We spent a long time and taped the edges. It was a big fat pain but I highly recommend it. It definitely saved us from getting liner on the gel coat.

I don't know if this will come back and bite us, but we extended it all the way to the edge. I know when cars get sent to Jeff he recommends leaving a few inches and then fills it in himself. We had already done all our trimming and radiused the edges, so we rolled the dice and went to the edge. I think it looks great! Tomorrow we will flip out over and put it on the body buck.

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We also went to Home Depot and bought stuff to build the jigs for the doors, trunk, and hood that Jeff recommended on other threads. We have only finished the door jig, but it turned out great. It feels nice and study too.

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We also got a bunch of other small things done that aren't with mentioning. It is looking like we will be able to stay Slick Sand tomorrow! Wish us luck!

Total time actually worked today (not including meals and over an hour driving time for buying things) was about 10 hours for me, 10 hours for my brother, and 6 hours for my nephew.

Total man hours up to this point: 88

hineas

05-30-2023, 10:05 AM

For those who want to know how I built the stand for the doors, this is what I did (based on Jeff's design from other threads).

I used 2x4s for the stand. I doubled up two 2x4s both cut to 4' length and screwed them together for a 4x4 post. This is the center post.

I made an "H" foot for the base. We put a 2x4 on either side of the 4x4 post. It just wasn't stable enough with a 2x4 on one side.

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For the door hangers, we used two 3/4" square aluminum tubes that were 36" in length. We did cut about 3" off of one end of each tube. This will be used later on the hood.

We drilled 3/8" hole an inch from each end. Through this hole we put a 6" long 3/8" - 16 thread bolt. This screwed into the same size coupler to attach to the door studs. We connected both doors to the aluminum tubes then screwed the tubes into the 4x4 post.

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hineas

05-30-2023, 12:44 PM

I built the structure to flip the trunk lid so we can do both sides each coat.

We used the longest eye bolt we could find that was 1/4" - 20 to screw into the hinge mount nuts. We then built two "T" mounts out of wood and drilled a hole for a wooden dowel. Thread the dowel through the eye bolts and the "T" pieces and that made the hinge.

For the kick stand we built another "T" and used a 12" threaded rod through it. It goes through the home for the latch to hold it up.

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cc2Arider

05-30-2023, 06:06 PM

Nice progress!

When you flipped the body over to prep and coat the underside, did you rotate it like a rotisserie? Any special watchouts while doing this?

Craig C

hineas

05-31-2023, 12:44 AM

Nice progress!

When you flipped the body over to prep and coat the underside, did you rotate it like a rotisserie? Any special watchouts while doing this?

Craig C

Ha ha ha, it sure felt like cooking a rotisserie chicken!

We put padding (cardboard) down before flipping it so it wouldn't scratch the body work at have done.

Nothing specific to watch out for. I highly recommend making all the edges. It was well with the effort and time. We did have to sand a few runs that got through our basic making tape (normal painters tape isn't great for fiberglass edges and curves) but I didn't want to use my expensive tape!

It wasn't too hard to sand off the bed liner that ran through the tape.

hineas

05-31-2023, 01:34 AM

Today we finished up the prep work and tomorrow we will be spraying Slick Sand!

Today we did the trunk flipper (see previous post).

We also did the hood flipper. We took the 2" of 3/4" square aluminium tube and cut it so we could attach the eye bolt to it and attach that to the hood under the door the hood hinge mount attaches. We trimmed it down to ensure the spot that won't be painted will be hidden by the mount. We also drilled new holes so we didn't widen the rivet holes even more. It is hard to explain, but these pictures will show you. We found this idea from Jeff on another thread. We modified it a touch, but it is the same basic design.

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We then made the kick stand with a 2' threaded rod and put it though the hood latch hole. We used a small washer that was just bigger than the hole. We then made some "T" pieces to hold up the rod.

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I also put glazing putty on the seams to cover up all the pin holes. That sanded so much easier since I did the thinnest layer I possibly could. I wasn't shaping anymore so I took off as much excess as possible during application.

We then moved on to building the paint booth in my garage. We finished moving everything out of the garage (that takes awhile!).

We covered the walls with 4 mil plastic (I still have to cover the garage doors). We opened one garage door about 20" high and lined it with furnace filters. I then put two 12" explosion proof exhaust fans in the opposite window. They allegedly pull just under 3,000 cfm each. We opted to do a negative pressure booth and just deal with the billowing in of the plastic. I didn't expect our red rosin paper to billow up though. Not a big issue since all the stuff we will have on the floor holding it down.

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The two exhaust fans pulled way more air than I expected. We could feel a nice steady breeze thought the entire booth. Hopefully it works well. We will also put filters on the fan so we don't blue as many droplets.

Don't worry, that isn't the final location of the body. We are going to move it away from the billowing plastic. I would hate to have the plastic hit fresh paint!

We are excited to get the body one color tomorrow! We have a few small things to finish and then we will stay. Hopefully we will stay spraying Slick Sand by about 10 am.

Today was a long day. We started at admit 9 am and finished at 11:30. We did take a few breaks to eat, but otherwise worked all day.

Today I worked about 11 hours total (including cleaning the garage), my nephew worked about 8 hours. My brother had to do some things for his day job so he worked about 6 hours.

Total man hours up to this point: 113.

k-roy

05-31-2023, 08:53 AM

flyboyjy

05-31-2023, 09:04 AM

Did you send the wife and family away while you are doing this? Even the most understanding wife will complain about the smell the first time you pull the paint gun trigger.

Jeff Kleiner

05-31-2023, 10:30 AM

I also put glazing putty on the seams to cover up all the pin holes.

You'll very likely see more pinholes once it's all one color, especially on the door, hood and trunk lid edges. Fill them before you begin sanding, otherwise they fill with dust and will be more difficult to find.

If the fans are doing their job any filters in front of them will probably plug quickly so keep an eye on them.

Give me a shout if you need anything and good luck!

Jeff

hineas

06-01-2023, 01:35 AM

Thanks Jeff! I definitely will, since I already have questions. Thank you for the generous offer.

hineas

06-01-2023, 01:59 AM

Today was an eventful day.

It started off frustratingly, though. I couldn't find my tools, I had issues getting my garage doors taped off, and my morning just took too long.

I finally got ready to spray Slick Sand. Before spraying, my nephew and I did a trial run. I connected my spray gun to the compressor and I sprayed the entire car with air. We practiced the route we wanted to take, we practiced hose management, we practiced crawling under the car to spray the cockpit and hood inner edges, we practiced handing the gun off to each other, etc. For those who are doing it their first time like me, I HIGHLY recommend doing a dry run to figure things out. We made mistakes and figured out how to do difficult areas before we actually had paint in the gun.

We then mixed the Slick Sand and sprayed a few coats. We ran into some issues with the catalyst and so couldn't spray the entire two gallons. We did, however, get two good coats on the car. I was worried it wasn't enough, but we were able to sand the entire car and we didn't burn through.

I also had an issue where I didn't tighten the inner nozzle enough.
It came off while spraying. The outer collar kept the nozzle in, but the air chamber filled with paint. I made a huge mess figuring it out (luckily not on the car). This happened immediately after mixing a quart of paint. By the time I cleaned the gun the entire quart was hard as a rock. Ugh. I guess you live and learn.

We did make a few other mistakes. I hit the hose on the underside of the hood. Also, when passing the gun over the car my nephew didn't realize the top lid had an air vent and he dropped a big drop on the car. These were non issues and we sanded them out. In hind site, maybe we should pass the gun under the wheel well? I'm not sure which would be safer on a hose management standpoint.

It took us about 4 hours to sand the car with 3 of us. I didn't have 150 grit like Jeff recommended, but I had 180. I think a little more grit would have been nice, but the 180 worked well.

I was impressed with my spraying for being a total newb. The orange peel was similar to the orange peel on car from a dealer. Not too shabby.

The slight orange peel made sanding nice. We basically just sanded until the orange peel was gone. That was our guide coat.

I am also impressed with our body work. I can't see ANY lines where the Rage Gold is. Also, when the Slick Sand was wet the reflection looked pretty darn straight. I hope that means the final product will have straight reflections. I know it won't be perfect, but we can say we did it

Here is the car before sanding:

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Here is the car after sanding:

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Sanding the front end was a big fat paint. All those curves are hard!

All in all it was a successful day. Tomorrow we clean the garage, buy primer and sealer, then spray!

I spent 13 hours working today, my nephew spent 10, and my brother spent 4.

Total man hours up to this point: 140

egchewy79

06-01-2023, 06:15 AM

kudos...much respect for tackling this on your own. why is your garage so clean?! is it a new build?

hineas

06-01-2023, 09:37 AM

kudos...much respect for tackling this on your own. why is your garage so clean?! is it a new build?

Ha ha ha! Nope, the house is 18 years old. It is clean because we spent a day cleaning it out! All of the junk is on our patio right now...

hineas

06-02-2023, 02:27 AM

Today was a great day!

It started off with buying paint. That process took 3 hours. The paint shop answered a ton of my questions and was a great help.

We didn't decide on a color until we were at the paint shop. We ended up going with Mazda Soul Red Crystal. PPG has a version that isn't a tricoat, which is great. I really didn't want to spray a tricoat. It will be interesting to see if the base and clear has an much depth as the tricoat.

I had some questions so I called up Jeff K. He was a great help. His tips and insights made today go so much more smoothly and will help in the rest of the job. I can't thank him enough!

Next we moved on to cleaning out the dust from the garage. We cleaned it again. Next we cleaned the garage. We cleaned some more. I think we may have cleaned it one more time. The dust never seems to end. Then we cleaned the car. We degreased the car. We used a tack cloth. Once everything was clean we suited up and started the primer.

Over all it went well. I had one run because I accidentally got the gun too close. Not a big deal, it sanded right out. I also had a drip, this time it was my fault. I turned to say something to my hose helper and I tipped the full gun just enough to drip. I guess you learn from your mistakes. Hopefully I won't do that during the color.

Once we finished spraying we let it sit for a few hours (we followed the TDS of the primer) then sanded. The TDS said to dry sand with 400, so we smoothed it out with 400.

While sanding there were a few spots that had some rough texture. Looking back at my spraying, they were all in areas I had trouble positioning the gun perpendicular to the body. I think I had the gun angled so the spray dried a little before hitting the panel. I'll work on my technique in those areas. I also wonder if I didn't have enough air so the droplets were too big? I'll play with my technique and see if it helps.

The body is all ready for sealer in the morning. We just have to clean. It is looking great!

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I spent 9 hours today, my nephew spent 6, and my brother spent 6.

Total man hours up to this point: 161.

hineas

06-02-2023, 02:38 AM

Looking great and like you are making great progress. Wish I was there.... sort of. :rolleyes:

Is there a reason we paint the underside? I have seen it on multiple threads and was planning on painting mine that way. I am curious as to the reasoning behind it

I just realized I never answered your question!

I did the bed liner because I was told to do it.

In all seriousness, though, I did it because of two concerns. First, I did it in hopes of reducing issues with rocks hitting the underside of the fenders. I have been told that if a rock hits the underside of the fender hard enough it can put a star crack in the paint. I don't know if the bed liner is enough to fully prevent it, but I assume it helps.

The other reason I have been told is because the fiberglass can be partly see through. When we flipped out over there are several areas that allowed light to pass through. A few people have told me that this can cause the paint to look different on those areas in certain lighting situations.

I don't know if these are actually big issues, but it really wasn't that much work. If it reduces these issues, then it is totally worth it.

Mike.Bray

06-02-2023, 03:06 PM

That's a really nice shade of red, not much on the orange end of the scale. I love red, most of my cars have been "resale red" lol. I wanted to do my MKIV red but my wife's favorite color is blue so we compromised.....on blue.

I think your car is going to look great!

Jeff Kleiner

06-02-2023, 03:44 PM

Once we finished spraying we let it sit for a few hours (we followed the TDS of the primer) then sanded. The TDS said to dry sand with 400, so we smoothed it out with 400.

I'd like to see you go 600 wet before sealer. Although 400 scratch doesn't seem like much it can catch the flake and let the sanding scratches show through. If you decide to do this it'll only take about an hour or so but just know that 600 wet cuts really fast so go easy around edges and points.

Jeff

hineas

06-03-2023, 01:49 AM

Thanks Jeff. We appreciate the tips!

Today was a good day. We cleaned up the garage, we used some degreaser on the car, used a tack cloth, then sprayed the sealer. The sealer was great. It went on without any issues. I hope the rest of the coats go on so easily!!!

I did focus on keeping my gun perpendicular to the panels and maintaining a steady distance. This really helped prevent the dry spray I had on the previous coat.

We then let the sealer dry for a few hours and moved on to color. We decided to spray the stripe white. We chose Toyota Super White, which is just a plain white.

Over all the white went on well. We did 3 coats. It covered well. I did have one small run at the nose. There are so many curves, nooks, crannies, and edges at the nose that it is easy to get too much material. I will go less on the material next time.

I fixed the run with 600 grit we. Thankfully, the run turned out to be outside the stripe, that's means I don't have to respray the white.

Once the white was dry enough (several hours) we moved on to the stripe.

Finding a centerline that looked good took a while. We first put the hood and trunk in place. We then found the center line at the trunk by locating the center of the area for the license plate light. We then found the front center by measuring the oil cooler hole just below the radiator hole. We taped a string at these two locations. We then stretched the string to get an idea of where center should be.

The next spot we focused on was between the dual roll bars. We figured this was important because the eye will see if the stripes aren't centered between the roll bars. Once we taped the string down at this point, we then moved on to the hood scoop. We put the hood scoop on and held it in place with a few rivet. We put the nail end of the rivet through the holes and took care not to damage the paint. With the hood scoop of place we tweaked the string so it was centered on the scope. From here we nudged the string around until it looked perfect. Once we were pleased, we did a dotted line with 1/4" fine line tape under the string. Once the center line was marked we then removed the string. From the 1/4" dotted line we could measure out the 1" gap between the stripes. It took a while, but it looks good.

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I have read Jeff and Jeff and others complain that the trunk latch hole is not centered under the license plate hole. I extended my centerline down from the license plate and sure enough, my hood latch hole isn't directly centered below the license plate light. We will do Jeff K's trick and just do a jog under the license plate light. I'll include a picture when we get it done.

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We decided to call it a night since it was after midnight. Right now it looks like tomorrow we will be spraying the body color!

I spent 8 hours today, my nephew spent 6, and my brother spent 6.

Total man hours up to this point: 181.

hineas

06-04-2023, 12:40 AM

This morning we finished masking the stripes. I was amazed at how long that took. We spent a ton of time making sure the lines were straight, the stripes looked centered, etc. Spending extra time here sure paid off. I talked to Jeff yesterday and he made sure to tell me to not stretch the fineline tape. That was a great tip. He said that stretching it can cause it to retract and mess up your lines. Thank you!

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Once it was taped we we spent time looking at it to make sure it looked right. The above picture is a little misleading. I used the wide angle camera on my phone and the hood is lower than the body so it looks like there is a jog in the line. But in person the jog isn't there.

The stripe layout we used is as follows:

The gap in the center is 1" wide.

We started at the oil cooler hole below the radiator. We made the stripe cover the entire hole and the outer line is just outside the hole. This made each stripe 7" wide. We took this lline straight up to the lip above the radiator. From this lip to the curved edge under the windshield we widened each stripe 3/4" per Jeff's recommendations. This made the stripe 7.75" wide at the front of the cockpit. Behind the cockpit we started at 7.75" wide and went back to 7.25" wide at the edge of the trunk.

The reason for widening the stripe in the middle is because perspective and the way the curves in the car are positioned, it makes the middle of the stripe look narrow.

We used 1/4" fineline tape for the edges. We also did a 1/4" pinstripe on the outside of the large stripe. We spaced it 1/4" away from the main stripe.

Once everything was done with masking we made sure all the edges were pressed down. Then we cleaned and tacked and prepped for be paint.

Spraying the color was nerve racking, but it went well. Spraying is much easier with the stripe masked because it split the car into sections. It made managing the spraying less complicated.

I did have a few mistakes. For example, on the door I had my nozzle turned parallel to my direction of travel. I only sprayed an inch, but it was too concentrated. I got lucky and it just changed how the flake was laid down. I let it dry for a few minutes so it wouldn't run. I came back and resprayed the area. The error disappeared and looked great.

Even though I sprayed thinner coats, I still got a run on the nose. Luckily it is low and below the body mount holes. The only way you can see it is if you are lying on the ground. We decided that wasn't worth sanding and respraying. There were no other runs so I'm happy!

I did 3 coats. On the last coat I would spray one section of the car then did a drop coat on the same area before it dried. For those who don't know, a drop coat is where you increase the distance between your gun and the body panel (I did perhaps 15" away). You do a light dusting of what you just painted. From what I understand, (correct me if I'm wrong), the reason is because the metallic flake orients differently and causes stripes while spraying. The drop coat puts a mist of metallic flake that orients the same way so it doesn't cause tiger stripes.

The color looks phenomenal. I can't wait to see it with the clear coat.

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We let the color dry for a few hours then removed the tape. I was nervous, but I didn't need to be. We made sure to pull the tape directly back over itself so we cut the paint vs lifting the paint off. Removing the tape was honestly just as exciting as the first start. It looked so good.

I did get a scare, though, while removing the tape. The red paint on the tape flaked off and dusted the white stripe. I though I had sprayed through the tape and got red on the stripe! Luckily it was just dust.

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I am more than pleased with the paint job up to this point. Take a look for yourself!

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We also decided to gently lay the hood scoop on the hood. Man it looks good.

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In the next picture you can see how we dealt with the fact the trunk handle isn't centered below the license plate holder. This is the solution that Jeff K. has posted previously, so thank you! We ended the center stripe from the top in middle of the license plate light. We then centered a stripe at the trunk handle and took that straight up to the license plate light. The funny jog is hidden by the license plate light and you don't notice it with the license plate in place.

The jog is pretty ugly, but we don't care since it will be covered. This picture shows what we did.

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Today I spent 8 hours and my brother spent 8 hours. My nephew had to leave yesterday so he wasn't there to help today.

Total man hours up to this point: 197.

cc2Arider

06-04-2023, 05:30 AM

Nice work! What an accomplishment :)

I appreciate all the watch-outs and special mentions...Thanks!

Craig C

Railroad

06-04-2023, 08:00 AM

Very Well Done!

Jeff Kleiner

06-04-2023, 09:12 AM

Looking good!

Good luck with the clear :)

Jeff

Lidodrip

06-04-2023, 09:34 AM

Great job, this has been a really fun thread to follow.

James

hineas

06-05-2023, 12:07 AM

Today was the day to spray clear, and boy were we excited. We woke up early and prepped everything. Then we realized it was only 55 degrees outside, which is much too cold. We had to wait about 4 hours for it to get to 70 degrees. Oh well, I guess good things come to those that wait.

I move my air compressor at night since I have it outside the garage while spraying. When moving the air compressor back to get ready to spray I had a mishap. I caught the drain spout on the corner of a ledge. It snapped off flush at the bottom of the tank. It broke with all the threads still in the compressor. We were crushed! No air compressor meant no painting. And we were on a timeline since you have to get clear on within a certain time window for better bonding. I was ready to drive to Home Depot and buy a new compressor if I had to.

Before taking the expensive plan of buying a new compressor, we went to the local hardware store and looked around. They didn't have the correct size drain valve. They did had the right thread size but it was too long. Also, the valve looked like it had rusted in place and we had no idea how to get the broken part out. We thought about an EZ out, but didn't want to break it when we absolutely need to fix it today.

We ended up deciding that we could get a 3/8" tap and just put a bolt in it as a plug. I bought an o-ring as well. Of that didn't work, then we would try the EZ out. We got home and I was able to tap the hole easily. Next, I wrapped the bolt with some thread tape and used the o-ring to get a good seal. It worked perfectly. The only bad part is now I have to release all the air through my air blow gun and then unscrew the bolt to drain the water. I'll get it fixed correctly at a later time. This was just temporary so I could get the clear coat applied.

Spraying the clear went really well. I did one thin wet coat. Then I did two full wet coats. It turned out phenomenal. There are a total of 3 runs in the clear, but they should sand out fine. The runs aren't big either. There are also no sags that I can see on the entire car. Not too shabby for my first time spraying an entire car!

I just looked at the car now (it has been 9 hours since spraying) and there are no new runs and still no sags. Overall I'm quite pleased.

We did have two errors that need some work. While spraying, my Tyvec suit ripped. A long fiber came off the rip and landed on the top side of the hood. It happened after the second coat but before the third. We noticed it while the second coat was still a fairly wet. We tried to get it out with a razor blade, but we were unsuccessful. The chemicals in the clear coat disintegrated the fiber. We got under the fiber with the corner of the blade, but it was just mush and fell apart.

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It is definitely not the end of the world. I am planning on sanding it down tomorrow and respraying the clear on the hood.

The other error was annoying. Some red dust sprayed on the white hood scoop during the first coat. Now the edge and corner just look dirty. I figure I will sand that down too and then respray at the same time as the hood. Luckily I have just enough paint left over to do that.

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Aside from those two issues (which aren't too hard to fix), the paint job came out great.

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Next is the cut and buff. We will probably do that next weekend. Then we put it all back together and start driving!

Time spent today: I put in 4 hours and my brother also did 4. I did not include time for the air compressor repair.

Total man hours up to this point: 205.

mmklaxer

06-05-2023, 04:13 AM

Really impressive work! Kudos to you and all the others out there that tackle the paint on their own.

Blitzboy54

06-05-2023, 08:20 AM

Great Job! I'm proud of you guys. I didn't have the coconuts to try my own paint. After watching you guys go through it I think if I ever do it again I will give it a go.

Can't wait to see it completely re assembled.

Fman

06-05-2023, 08:30 AM

Bravo! Mad respect for builders who do there own body and paint, you truly have a Built not Bought build! Looking forward to seeing the final pics.

hineas

06-05-2023, 09:56 AM

Thanks for all the kind words!

Its Bruce

06-05-2023, 10:58 AM

'Really appreciate you tagging us along with this DIY. The work looks phenomenal!

You may want to check your maths on the total hours...

Today was an eventful day.
.
.
.
Total man hours up to this point: 140

Today was a great day!
.
.
.
Total man hours up to this point: 161.

Thanks Jeff. We appreciate the tips!
.
.
.
Total man hours up to this point: 160.

This morning we finished masking the stripes.
.
.
.
Total man hours up to this point: 176

cc2Arider

06-05-2023, 11:24 AM

What a recovery...knowing you were on a deadline that couldn't budge!

Really outstanding effort and results :)

Craig C

hineas

06-05-2023, 01:20 PM

'Really appreciate you tagging us along with this DIY. The work looks phenomenal!

You may want to check your maths on the total hours...

Thanks! That is even more depressing now that I have the hours at 205!

Usually I'm pretty good at math, but apparently not when I'm doing it in my head after a 14 hour day of work and falling asleep while writing the post...

zarnold

06-05-2023, 09:54 PM

Awesome! Congrats on a job well done.

Blitzboy54

06-06-2023, 10:43 AM

Thanks! That is even more depressing now that I have the hours at 205!

Usually I'm pretty good at math, but apparently not when I'm doing it in my head after a 14 hour day of work and falling asleep while writing the post...

205 to this point on your first build is crazy fast. FFR estimates 350 for a first timer. I'm guessing working with your brother has helped but holy cow you two are putting on a clinic.

Jeff Kleiner

06-06-2023, 11:07 AM

205 to this point on your first build is crazy fast. FFR estimates 350 for a first timer...

Jesse,
Carl is talking 205 for body & paint, not the full build.

Jeff

Blitzboy54

06-06-2023, 03:16 PM

Jesse,
Carl is talking 205 for body & paint, not the full build.

Jeff

Oops, Ha

Still doing a great job :)

hineas

06-07-2023, 01:25 AM

205 to this point on your first build is crazy fast. FFR estimates 350 for a first timer. I'm guessing working with your brother has helped but holy cow you two are putting on a clinic.

Jeff was correct. This is just the hours for body and paint. I don't know if 205 is normal for a newb, and this is a partial over-estimate if one guy was doing it. There were several points along the way that having 2 people there didn't speed it up much. Also, I counted man hours as how many hours each of us worked. When spraying, having 2 people didn't speed much up since only 1 person was spraying and the other was just helping keep the hose away from the car. But I counted the hours for both people.

I think the 350 hours for a first timer to do the mechanical build is pretty accurate. I think we were at about 300 hours if I had to guess. The body work and paint is almost as much work as the mechanical build!

hineas

06-07-2023, 01:48 AM

k-roy

06-07-2023, 11:59 AM

"it's a beaut Clark"

er Carl.

Jeff Kleiner

06-07-2023, 01:23 PM

Today I did a few minutes of wet sanding to get the fiber out of the clear coat. The fiber had gone all the way down to the base coat so sanding took off some color. Since it took off some color, I'm going to have to respray the red and then the clear. Luckily it is the hood, so if I can't get things to blend I am only respraying the hood and not a larger area.

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My plan is to hopefull spray it tomorrow. The issue is that I work night shift and my shifts are long, so that makes getting things done during the day difficult. However, my brother comes back into town on Friday to cut and buff, so I am hoping to get it sprayed before Friday.

If I were you...and I'm not...rather than trying to blend I'd just reshoot base and clear on the half of the hood that's flawed. Go from the outside pin on the side to be recoated and mask it plus the stripe and entire other side then shoot base (you can probably get by with a single coat plus a drop). For the clear mask from the outside of the wide stripe and the entire other side. This will have you clearing the repainted red, the outside pin and the narrow red on the repaired side. When you cut and buff you'll take out the ridge. Hit the area to be recoated with 600 beforehand.

My .02

Jeff

hineas

06-07-2023, 05:38 PM

Thanks Jeff. I was trying to figure out the best way to do it. This way makes sense to have the base completely even. Thank you!

hineas

06-08-2023, 03:55 AM

I am going to spray the hood either this morning or tomorrow morning. I am going to follow Jeff's recommendation and re-spray the base on half of the hood. I think that will be easier in the long run.

I do have some questions on the next steps (cut and buff):

First, we are going to sand the orange peel on the clear coat with 1000 grit. Then we will sand with 1500, 2000, and 3000.

Once everything is sanded, I am going to buff. I will likely do the initial buff with a wool pad, then switch to foam. I haven't decided what compound I am going to use for the buffing.

I know that I need to be careful on the edges. I know that I need to the rotary buffer spinning off the edge and not into the edge. I'm going to keep the pressure as light as possible and not rush. I also know that I need to use a lot of polishing compound and don't let it dry out. I have read on other threads that Jeff Miller says if you aren't flinging compound on the ceiling you aren't using enough.

My main question on the buffing is what do I do with all the nooks and crannies on the body? In other words, how do I buff the areas around the brake vents, oil cooler hole, etc. on the nose?

Jeff Kleiner

06-08-2023, 08:47 AM

...I have read on other threads that Jeff Miller says if you aren't flinging compound on the ceiling you aren't using enough.

So, a couple of years ago my wife came out to the shop when I was buffing and said "You're not using enough." I said "What?" She replied "You told me your California buddy says if you aren't flinging it on the ceiling you aren't using enough." :rolleyes:

My main question on the buffing is what do I do with all the nooks and crannies on the body? In other words, how do I buff the areas around the brake vents, oil cooler hole, etc. on the nose?

Don't go in there if you don't have to. Meaning that if there isn't trash or a flaw that needs to be sanded out and you have a nice finish and gloss inside those tight areas and others like door jambs, etc. leave 'em be.

My supplier called a couple of days ago and said he has a new 3M tool and system he would like for me to try out. I've got one cut to 3000 ready to polish so he's going to come by to let me check it out this afternoon. I'll report back...

Jeff

hineas

06-08-2023, 09:15 AM

Ha ha ha. That sounds exactly like what my wife would say!

I was hoping you were going to say that. I am going to leave those areas alone.

hineas

06-08-2023, 09:22 AM

For example, after the Slick Sand she said, "I thought you were painting it red?" Then after the primer she said, "It is still gray." Then after we sealed it, "It is gray. I can't see any changes. What are you doing all day in there?"

When I sprayed white I told her I was actually starting color. She pointed out that it was still gray and there was no red.

hineas

06-10-2023, 12:52 AM

I resprayed the hood. I followed Jeff's recommendations and resprayed the base to the outer edge of the pinstripe and the clear to the outer edge of the wide stripe. It worked really well and you can't see the ridges from masking since it is on the line of the stripe.

I did, however, have to do 3 coats of base to get the defect completely covered. Also, my 3rd coat wasn't good and I had tiger stripes, even with my drop coat. I ended up doing one more base coat and now it looks great.

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We also started wet sanding the clear to get rid of the orange peel. It hurts to see a shiny finish go back to a matte finish, but it will look so much better when we buff. We got the doors, trunk, and rear of the vehicle sanded. We will finish the 1000 grit in the morning, and hopefully get the 1500, 2000, and 3000 finished tomorrow or Sunday.

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Total time spent today was 7 hours by me and 7 by my brother.

Total man hours on the body work and paint up to this point: 219

hineas

06-10-2023, 01:10 PM

Today we finished wet sanding the body with 1000 grit. That was a big project and took a lot longer than I expected. Even though our orange peel wasn't bad (it wasn't great either), it took a long time to cut and smooth it out.

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We started wet sanding with 1500. This is SO MUCH faster than the 1000 since we aren't removing orange peel. The clear coat is still matte at 1500, but when it is wet the reflection is better than it was with 1000. I sanded the doors, hood scoop, and trunk in less time than it took to sand one door with 1000.

We are hoping to get the body completely sanded with 3000 today and maybe even start buffing this evening.

hineas

06-11-2023, 12:13 AM

We finished wet sanding the body this evening with 1500, 2000, then 3000 grit. We also did the first pass on the buffing.

It is amazing at how good it looks even with one pass on the buffing. It is still ever so slightly hazy, but it looks good. Now it looks better than it did before we started sanding the clear.

There still is a tiny bit of orange peel, but it is way better than a paint job from a dealer.

The reflection also looks great. I can't wait to get through the polishing stages!

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In the last picture you can see how clear the reflection is even after one pass at buffing.

I was buffing at 1000 rpm and just went slow. I probably need to go faster, but with the wool pad it was catching the edges too much so I went slow.

Total time today: I spent 8 hours, my brother spent 10 hours.

Total man hours up to this point on the body and paint: 237

GoDadGo

06-11-2023, 06:10 AM

Almost There Looking Fantastic!

You guys are much braver than me because painting a car is not something I know how to do.

Jeff Kleiner

06-11-2023, 07:51 AM

Looking good Carl! What products did you settle on?

Crowding your post again but I'll put this here because I'm sure this well documented thread is going to become a great reference for others who are tackling this part of the build themselves.

I said that I'd report back after using the new 3M Perfect-It Random Orbital system that my supplier wanted me to try.

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/collision-repair-us/featured-products/random-orbital-polishing-system/

After being a "forever" rotary user I have to say that I like it! I had not seen a RA deliver the kind of results that the combination of this machine and the specific compounds designed for use with it does. It's lighter and easier to handle and probably cut my time by 30%. I had this one cut to 3000 and gave it kind of a "hurry up" because I needed to get it back to him the next morning but I'm confident that if I spent more time with it I'd like it even better.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185628&d=1686487604

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185629&d=1686487631

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185630&d=1686487661

Cheers,
Jeff

hineas

06-11-2023, 08:33 AM

That is beautiful!

I ended up getting a 7" rotary buffer and I am using Meguiar's 110 and 210. Why did I choose this one? Because that is what I could find locally.

Jeff Kleiner

06-11-2023, 08:38 AM

That is beautiful!

I ended up getting a 7" rotary buffer and I am using Meguiar's 110 and 210. Why did I choose this one? Because that is what I could find locally.

I think I told you that 110 and 210 are what I've been using for a couple of years and they work well!

Jeff

Higgybulin

06-11-2023, 11:32 AM

hineas

06-11-2023, 12:44 PM

Almost There Looking Fantastic!

You guys are much braver than me because painting a car is not something I know how to do.

Thanks! We are so close I can taste it.

We also didn't know how to do it, but the forum and YouTube helped a ton.

Our paint job is far from perfect. To be honest, though, most paint jobs aren't perfect. However, only someone that paints for a living would notice the flaws in our paint.

Even though our paint job isn't perfect, I am more than proud of it. It looks stunning so far. Also, we built this car to drive and put hundreds of thousands of miles on it. It will get rock chips, tar, bugs, scratches, etc. I suspect if I wanted to put another 100 hours into we could get a show quality paint job that would win awards, but that wasn't our goal.

hineas

06-11-2023, 12:44 PM

I think I told you that 110 and 210 are what I've been using for a couple of years and they work well!

Jeff

That is one reason I felt comfortable getting what I did!

Jeff Kleiner

06-11-2023, 01:56 PM

Sorry to hi-jack but what color is that Jeff?!
Higgy

Ford Deep Impact Blue.

Jeff

hineas

06-11-2023, 06:53 PM

The is a gorgeous blue. Maybe I should sand my red and do that instead?

Tempting...

hineas

06-11-2023, 08:27 PM

We finished buffing the body today. We were out of time, so we didn't get the doors, trunk, and hood done. However, the body is complete!

For those who have never buffed, this is what we did. I am NOT an expert at this, so if there are any tips from more experienced people that definitely trumps my method.

We started with Meguiar's 110 compound on a wool disc. That was hard to control so we only went at about 1000 rpms on a rotary buffer.

Next we switched to buffing pads. The only pads in my area that I could find were at Harbor Freight. We got the 7" Bauer pads. We skipped the coarse pad because we did the wool instead. Next we did the medium cut pad with the Meguiar's 110. This was easier to control and we upped the speed to 1400 rpm.

Once that was finished we then did the finishing pad with Meguiar's 210 compound. This was even easier and we buffed at 1800 rpm.

We decided to do the ultra fine pad (they call it the "Show Car Finish" pad. We used Meguiar's 210 on this as well. I could actually see a difference in the reflection with this pad, so it was worth it.

While buffing I used a LOT of compound. If it isn't flinging everywhere, it isn't enough. I preferred spreading a nice coat of the compound directly on the body with my hand. Then I wiped the excess off my glove onto the pad. The reason I liked spreading it on the body was because I never got dry spots on the body. Also, it made it super easy to know where I had polished.

I worked in fairly small sections at a time. I probably split the car up into 20 sections mentally and buffed each section. I had a little overlap of the sections so I didn't miss anything.

The nose was difficult, but doable. To get around the headlight, signal lights, etc. I often would just use the edge of the buffing pad. I just took my time and slowed the speed down so I didn't burn through any edges.

I think it turned out pretty great.

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The body isn't attached yet, but I WAS able to free up my garage. Our main goal was to get my wife's car back in the garage this weekend. My wife was gracious enough to let me take over the entire garage. However, her car is an electric car and the only way we can charge it is if it is in the garage. To make matters worse, the nearest fast charger is 30 minutes away. I did make sure to drive to the fast charger whenever it needed charging, but I didn't want to push it too far.

Now her car is back in the garage and everyone is happy.

Today I spent 6 hours and my brother spent 7 hours.

Total man hours up to this point on body work and paint: 250 hours.

Blitzboy54

06-11-2023, 08:42 PM

Bravo

cc2Arider

06-12-2023, 10:43 AM

Looks great!

I can't remember if you already mentioned this...but did you trim up the side vents and the exhaust cut-outs from the initial factory rough cuts?

Thanks,
Craig C

hineas

06-12-2023, 12:15 PM

Looks great!

I can't remember if you already mentioned this...but did you trim up the side vents and the exhaust cut-outs from the initial factory rough cuts?

Thanks,
Craig C

Yes, we did.

The side vents were pretty close to acceptable for us. We basically just straightened out the lines a little, but it didn't need much. We didn't do any cutting, just sanding.

The exhaust cutouts required a lot of work. I don't remember exactly how much we trimmed, but if memory serves We had to raise the cut about 1/2" on one side. One side needed about the same amount cut off the back edge and the other side needed it cut out of the front edge.

We didn't even try to make them the same size and location. You only see the cutout from one side so it isn't noticeable. I'll see if I can get a picture of each side and compare them side by side.

We have had hundreds of people look at our car and put 5,000 miles on it while in gel coat. Not a single person has noticed. Heck, I know they are vastly different and I don't even notice!

But like my brother always says, "Only the rear end needs to look good because that is all that people will see of us on the road!"

hineas

06-17-2023, 06:06 PM

I have started putting the car back together. I tell people all the time that we have built the car 3 times. It always seems something happens and we have to take something apart because we often did a test fit of a part, it wasn't fitting right, we would want to modify it after install, because we broke something, because we didn't realize we had to do a different step first, etc. Now that I'm putting it back together it feels like we have built it 4 times!

It is starting to look like a car again. I have installed the body mounts, roll bars, lights, side mirror, and mounts for the soft top. I haven't tightened everything down yet because I still might nudge the body location a bit once I get the doors installed.

I have loosely installed the windshield mounts. I did as Jeff recommended and removed the fuse box. That made it so much easier!

I still have to buff the doors, hood and trunk. We ran out of time when my brother was here. Buffing those pieces is easier with two people. I thought about asking my wife to help hold the pieces while I buff, but I don't think she would appreciate the compound flying everywhere, including on her.

This is the first time we have installed the roll bar grommets. I highly recommend getting them. I think they look great and help everything look finished.

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For the soft top attachment point behind the doors, I ended up using a rubber washer. I hope it doesn't mess up the fit, but I don't think it will. I ended up doing a rubber washer on the paint and also on the under side of the body. Getting the shims lined up nicely so it holds snug is tedious. Also, getting it tight enough without ruining the paint is also hard. The rubber washers made it so much easier.

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I haven't attached the bumper over-riders yet because I bought the grommets that go into the hole on the front of the body. They arrive on Monday. I they arrive I will install them and tighten everything down.

I put in 4 hours.

Total time on body work and paint (including disassembly and reassembly): 254

hineas

06-19-2023, 11:21 PM

Jeff Kleiner

06-20-2023, 08:14 AM

Today I got a package in the mail with the grommets for the holes for the front over riders.

I highly recommend getting these. It holds everything together better. It looks more finished. And I just like them.

I installed the grommets this evening and put the front over riders on. It looks great!

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I didn't do anything else on the car today and only spent about 15 minutes doing these.

Use those grommets with 3/4" O.D. tubing, not the 5/8" tubes that FFR provides. Doing so allows you to eliminate the "horseshoes" that span between the bumper bolts and parking lamp studs and which I have found can stress and fracture the body.

Jeff

cc2Arider

06-20-2023, 04:18 PM

Lookin' good!

I'm curious about where you sourced those front quick jack grommets and the soft top mounts?

Craig C

hineas

06-20-2023, 10:00 PM

I just searched online for the grommets. I got them from Metro Molded Parts.

The soft top mounts come with the premium soft top from Rod Tops. I just added a simple rubber washer that you can get from the hardware store.

hineas

06-20-2023, 10:02 PM

Use those grommets with 3/4" O.D. tubing, not the 5/8" tubes that FFR provides. Doing so allows you to eliminate the "horseshoes" that span between the bumper bolts and parking lamp studs and which I have found can stress and fracture the body.

Jeff

Thanks for the tip. I'll see if I can find some 3/4" tubing at the hardware store tomorrow and I'll remove those horseshoes.

hineas

06-21-2023, 11:56 PM

I was able to get a lot done today

First, I finished buffing the doors and did some buffing on the hood. I still have to finish buffing the hood and trunk. The reason I didn't finish was because I felt more comfortable buffing the hood and trunk with somebody else holding them. I really don't want to mess up the paint if I knocked them over trying it by myself. My wife was gracious enough to help, but she had to leave so we will finish tomorrow.

Next, I attached all of the roll bar grommets. That was a big fat pain in the patoot. I wish the grommet for the rear leg was just a little bigger. I had to really compress the front side of the rubber to get it to cover the rear of the hole that was cut by Factory Five. The small screws and nuts were also difficult to attach. I am now a yoga master after all the contortionist maneuvers that were required. The other difficulty was that I had to plan where I put the holes on the front legs because my drill wouldn't reach some areas. I finally got them all installed and they look fantastic. I was unable to get two nuts in place, but I used a drill bit that was smaller than the screw so it threaded into the fiber glass. I think it will be fine.

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Now that I have my body in place, I tightened down the windshield mounts and installed the grommets. I put silicone around the holes to reduce the amount of water that will run right onto the fuse box. I ended up putting a piece of tape on the inside of the body to hold the silicone on place while it cures.

Next I installed the rear view mirror. I know on the forum there are quite a few people who don't like the mirror mounted on the body. I personally love the look. However, drilling the holes was nerve racking since you can't see the location of the 3/4" tube. I spent some time measuring and did an educated guess. I was lucky and hit the tube.

We had mounted the rear view mirror while in gel coat. We ended up filling in those holes because we figured they wouldn't align with the stripe. I'm glad we did and it looks perfect having the mirror centered on the stripe.

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I also installed the driver door, attached the body to the frame under the door, and installed the side pipe. That was so much easier getting everything aligned since I had already done the hard work before. It took less than 5 minutes to get the door in the right position. It is starting to look like a car!

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I also went to the hardware store and bought a 3/4" outer diameter sleeve for the quick jack bolts and some other odds and ends.

Tomorrow I hope to get the passenger door mounted and side pipe installed. Then I'll work on the trunk and hood. I also need to wire the lights. When we first did the wiring we didn't think ahead and used butt connectors. When it came time to remove the body we had to cut them. I bought spade connectors so I can replace lights in the future.

Total time spent today: 8 hours

Total man hours spent on body work and paint: 262

Ted G

06-22-2023, 10:00 AM

Looking great! We are going to finish right about the same time!!

hineas

06-23-2023, 03:16 AM

Looking great! We are going to finish right about the same time!!

Exciting, isn't it? Yours looks gorgeous!

hineas

06-24-2023, 01:44 AM

Yesterday and today I finished putting the car back together. I installed the passenger door and side pipe without any issues. I got the trunk installed (I still need to tweak the hinge just a touch but it is really close). I attached the hood scoop and installed the hood. I finished wiring the lights. All of that went without any real issues.

I ended up getting a 3/4" outer diameter tube from the local hardware store per Jeff's recommendations. I cut them to length and installed them on the quick jack bolts in the front. These were a tight fit in the grommets. The only sleeves I could find were aluminum or regular steel, so I opted for aluminum. The wall was thin enough that the ones supplied by Factory Five fit inside the 3/4" sleeve. I figured that reducing the gap between the bolts and the sleeves was a good thing, so I ended up just installing the 3/4" sleeve over the ones supplied with the kit. Now that the front end is held in place with less slop I felt more comfortable removing the body mounts that go to the turn signal.

Once all was said and done I took the car off the jack stands and moved it into the driveway to clean it. I just used some water and a rag but it cleaned up great!

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I do have one question, though. Maybe Jeff or Jeff can help. Once I got the car into the sun, some of my panels have "holograms" or "buffer trails." When I was researching, it might be because I went with too slow on the rpms and moved across the panel too fast. I am going to have to buff a few areas some more to get rid of the holograms. Do you recommend just doing the ultra-fine finishing pad or starting at a more aggressive pad?

Here is a picture of the buffer trails:
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I still have a lot of work to do, BUT it is finished enough to start driving again! I still have to do the nose aluminum, install the under door aluminum, finish the weather stripping, finish carpeting the drop trunk, install the emblems, and a few other odds and ends. But now that we are back on the road we can do those at our lesiure.

Over-all I am pleased with the outcome of the paint job. Once I fix the buffer trails it is going to be even more stunning. To be honest, it looks phenomenal even with the buffer trails.

Time spent yesterday and today: 10 hours
Total man hours spent on body work and paint (including disassembly and reassembly): 272

cc2Arider

06-24-2023, 03:47 PM

Whooo--wee....lookin' sa--weeeet!:cool:

Craig C

TMartinLVNV

06-25-2023, 10:45 AM

Your car is looking badass. Great job guys! You should be very proud of the work you have put into it and the results.

hineas

06-25-2023, 06:15 PM

Thanks! We definitely are proud. I can't wait for you to see it!

hineas

06-27-2023, 12:45 AM

I buffed the car again with the last pad at 3,000 rpm. It only helped a little with the buffing trails. However, while cleaning I noticed that if I hand buffed with a microfiber towel it improved some more. I ended up using my random orbital sander with a foam velcro pad and the microfiber towel and went over the whole car. That actually helped a ton and the trails are almost gone. It is to the point that it is now acceptable and I'm happy with the results. I figure each time I clean I'll put a little elbow grease with the microfiber towel and it will get even better.

I'm going to call the body work and paint portion complete (is anything on these cars ever finished?). I still have to finish the nose aluminum, the under door aluminum, clean up some wires around the headlights, etc. However, I don't think I need to include those things on this thread. The grand total for man hours spent on the body work and paint was 280 hours. This included disassembly of the car after driving it 5,000 miles in gel coat. This included deep cleaning the body to get 5,000 miles of grime and bugs off the car. This included all the body work. This included paint. This included putting everything back together.

The 280 hours was calculated by adding how many hours I put into it plus how many hours my brother worked on the car and the number of hours my nephew helped.

In my opinion, as a complete newb on body work and paint, this project was every bit as big as the mechanical portion of the build. It was also more nerve wracking and more intimidating because this is what makes a car look good or bad.

I'm going to type up my thoughts later on doing the body work myself. I'll talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly. I'll talk about what I wish I did differently, which parts of the results I'm not happy with, and which parts I'm proud of.

The short story, though, is that I'm glad I did it. I'm proud of my work. It was a huge project that we saw through to completion and I'm not embarrassed to show it to other people. Is our paint job as good as one done by the professionals? Absolutely not. But our paint job is still phenomenal considering we did it ourselves and have zero experience. If I build another car, will I do the body work and paint again? I'm not sure, but I will definitely consider it.

I took the car for its first voyage today in full paint. It felt great. The car looked amazing in the sun. The color is gorgeous. I ended up going through a drive through at a fast food joint and I could over hear all the employees talking about how amazing the car looked. I'm proud of our work!

GoDadGo

06-27-2023, 07:27 AM

Great Job & Well Done!

Note:..For the record; I ran out of talent once I hit the bodywork phase.

Blitzboy54

06-27-2023, 09:42 AM

You should be proud. You truly built it.

hineas

01-05-2024, 08:16 AM

Cutter 54

01-13-2024, 12:17 PM

Now that it has been over 6 months since paint, I wanted to leave a few more thoughts.

First off, every time I walk past the car in the garage I still have to stop and look at it. Every time I park the car I still have to look back twice as I walk away. I am amazed that we built and painted such a beautiful car.

I was a little too hard on myself earlier in this threat about the flaws. Yes, they are there, but the car turned out better than I dreamed it would. Could I have block sanded the orange peel a little better? Sure, but it is still less orange peal than my cars I bought from a dealer. To prove my point, my brother who painted the car with me couldn't even see most of the flaws. It really does look good.

I recently went to a few small car shows to see the other cars (I didn't enter, sadly, but that's a different story). One car show was small with only a handful of cars. The other show had perhaps 100-150 cars. The thing that hit home the most was that I felt like our paint job was better than about 80% of the cars there. Also, I felt like that the only ones that were better were those that were done by a professional. Even the professional paint jobs still had errors if you looked closely.

So, in closing, thank you for all the help and kind words. I really feel like this wouldn't have been possible without this forum!

A belated reading of your body paint effort. As others have said, big congratulations and thanks for the detailed discussion. I just finished having mine painted and did some of the sanding with my mentor who directed the whole job, save for the sealer, base coat and clear. I think your hours spent were much less than I expected and likely half of what I would have spent. Charging at least $50/hr for labor would likely put you in the $12-15,000 range, but that might not include the reassembly. However, writing a check is much different from doing the work yourself. Enjoy the hell out of it.

Thank you again for this valuable contribution. Ed Klein.