Another comment about hearing protection

[LateApex]

I have waded in a couple of times on different threads re: hearing protection, and have really appreciated the many comments and suggestions.

My coupe is loud. It doesn't help that I did not install side windows, but I have explored (or am exploring) other ways to keep an audiologist at bay :-)

First, the whole interior is backed with Bimat, Quadmat and carpeting. Zero Clearance insulation defines the look of my firewall and other angles in the engine compartment. I have even started to employ acoustic foam in various places in the passenger compartment. One place for example is in the doors (which actually serve as a drum otherwise ...) - the doors also enjoy door cards.

It is still quite loud. But the body does not "ring".

I am using the stock / kit exhaust twin pipes. I have installed Car Chemistry inserts in the tails after chopping off the turn-outs. Weak tea. Maybe 3dB reduction. This Winter I will install a set of Highflo Performance Chambered Exhaust inserts. These are 30" long, and on first inspection should really clip the exhaust volume. You know, those twin pipes exit less than 2' from your ear drums. Stay tuned on this little side-project.

All this aside, I believe hearing protection is not just advised, but required. I already have tinnitus, likely from my stint in the Army, cross Rock and Roll, cross straight pipes on motorcycles, cross ...
I have been using 3M Classic foam plugs, which are a) cheap and b) have decent attenuation. But I me wonder to meself whether there is a better approach. For example, being able to converse with a passenger while driving AND wearing ear plugs is damn tough. One option is to take up sign language. Or lose the passenger .... this takes "spousal deafness" to the next level IMO ...

I have done a bit of research over this past couple of weeks because I had this notion that perhaps I could wear a headset, like an aviation headset, or a set up used by race car drivers. This turns out to be a non-starter. Most, if not all, states have rules that admonish any kind of active headset system worn in both ears by a driver, unless you are wearing a helmet. You can have an active ear bud in one ear, but not both. Unlike aircraft, a pilot needs to be able to hear car horns and sirens .... Ughh. If you are driving down the road with Beats or AirPods, you will draw fire from your local constabulary..

Hmmm ...

Listening to the Alpine deck will be restricted to parking lots.
If I am going to wear a headset, I need to wear a hoody
Comm with a passenger will involve sign language ( ...next time wave with all your fingers ...)

So the problem reduces to "What kind of ear plugs (which are allowed) are best?"

I am typing this while wearing a set of Decibullz, which I just heat molded to my ears. These are cheap, and from what I can tell, really effective.

Yes, the deck will be for the parking lot.
Yes, comm with your passenger will be via sign language.
Or, one can putter about at 1500 rpm.


Happy Thanksgiving to you all. I hope you are finding time in your shop; better yet on the Macadam

First world problems ... ;-)

[Jim1855]

I ran the SureFire EarPro Sonic Defenders. Often, if driving with a passenger, I'd recommend using the plug for the outside ear. This allowed some conversation while blocking off the ear just above the sidepipes. It helped. https://www.surefire.com/categories/earpro/

I would not expect the EarPros to have the same dB rating as the Decilbulz but they work well.

Jim

[Dave Tabor]

I'm on my third order of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072LCHV2S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17
16,000+ miles

[Joel Hauser]

"First world problems"...that made me smile, thank you.
I've been using these; they'ew cheap, comfortable, readily available and work well. If I have a passenger, I just wear one in my left ear.
https://www.harborfreight.com/safety/hearing-protection/reusable-silicone-earplugs-50-pack-58455.html

[GoDadGo]

Our Dark Side 383 SBC MK-4 Is Extremely Loud So We Wear These & They Work Great!

https://www.google.com/search?q=3m+earplugs&sxsrf=ALiCzsY0hdL73epcGB8jtNz2GuDiyKBIOQ:166944135 9620&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjzo9rZkcv7AhVbkokEHUJZBdAQ_AUoAXoECAIQA w&biw=1164&bih=801&dpr=1.1#spd=425183214843954434

[edwardb]

Thanks for this thread and taking the subject seriously. Not everyone does. We've used Etymotic Research ER20 High-Fidelity Earplugs for 10+ years and still the favorite for my wife. They reduce the sound level to an acceptable level while still allowing reasonable conversation. I tried the Decibullz custom molded earplugs and found they work quite well. Better than the ER20's. But for me anyway aren't quite as comfortable. I suspect some variation in the DIY molding process. This past season, I used Sony WF-1000XM4 noise canceling wireless earbuds. By far my favorite choice so far. From an absolute DB standpoint, probably not the highest performers. But the sound they do let through is low level and well within acceptable limits. They do allow for reasonable conversation in the noise cancelling mode, and if you really want to, can be switched to ambient just by touching the LH earbud. An added benefit is the Bluetooth connection. I don't talk on my phone or listen to music while driving. But nice to get the alerts. Mostly I like the Bluetooth when I'm using the phone for route guidance. Having the prompts right in your ears is perfect. I don't know Michigan laws (or other states for that matter) so don't know the legality of active devices in both ears. But they're not obvious and I have no issue hearing emergency vehicles or whatever. IMO, the most effective solution would be to have custom earplugs made professionally. My son has those because of his job. His insurance even paid for them. Clearly the most effective and likely most comfortable. But not cheap if you have to pay for them yourselves.

[Lickity-Split]

When going for a longer trip in the roadster, I use these:

https://www.amazon.com/Macks-Ultra-Soft-Foam-Earplugs/dp/B0051U7W32/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=skin+color+ear+plugs&qid=1669469934&sr=8-1

I like the flesh tone so they don't stand out.

[LateApex]

Thanks for this thread and taking the subject seriously. Not everyone does. We've used Etymotic Research ER20 High-Fidelity Earplugs for 10+ years and still the favorite for my wife. They reduce the sound level to an acceptable level while still allowing reasonable conversation. I tried the Decibullz custom molded earplugs and found they work quite well. Better than the ER20's. But for me anyway aren't quite as comfortable. I suspect some variation in the DIY molding process. This past season, I used Sony WF-1000XM4 noise canceling wireless earbuds. By far my favorite choice so far. From an absolute DB standpoint, probably not the highest performers. But the sound they do let through is low level and well within acceptable limits. They do allow for reasonable conversation in the noise cancelling mode, and if you really want to, can be switched to ambient just by touching the LH earbud. An added benefit is the Bluetooth connection. I don't talk on my phone or listen to music while driving. But nice to get the alerts. Mostly I like the Bluetooth when I'm using the phone for route guidance. Having the prompts right in your ears is perfect. I don't know Michigan laws (or other states for that matter) so don't know the legality of active devices in both ears. But they're not obvious and I have no issue hearing emergency vehicles or whatever. IMO, the most effective solution would be to have custom earplugs made professionally. My son has those because of his job. His insurance even paid for them. Clearly the most effective and likely most comfortable. But not cheap if you have to pay for them yourselves.

I am still breaking in the Decibulz Paul. First impression (no pun intended ..) is that they fit really well, and they are absolutely quiet with the Foam tips. But those tips are just a little large or stiff methinks and a bit uncomfortable. Maybe just a break in issue? Will find out over the next bit :-)

[LateApex]

I may start playing with a hybrid solution, such as a high occlusion ear plug in the left ear, and an ear bud in or a can over the right ear. The laws in most states (I believe) allow one active ear bud, for example to support hands-free calling. Not going to hear stereo output from the head unit, but may address the passenger communication design point. A one ear headset with good occlusion and a boom mic, coupled with a 28dB + ear plug in the other ear maybe ... an avionics solution for piston-engine craft maybe. This suggests headset is wired - that is not an issue, as I am strapped in with the Simpson harness ;-)

Don't you love this forum? Just "typing out loud" helps with the problem solving :-)

...

[Papa]

A couple of full driving seasons under my belt and I use my old Army hearing protection when I'm just puttering around by myself.

https://www.amazon.com/Tac-Shield-Plugs-Hearing-Protection/dp/B00AZOXPWQ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1LCB8ZJARTRW8&keywords=Army+ear+plugs&qid=1669503733&sprefix=army+ear+plugs%2Caps%2C115&sr=8-3

For longer trips, I wear a Rugged Radios headset that fits over the ears. I bought a set of two for when I have a passenger with me. They connect and have a built-in intercom that you activate with a push-to-talk button.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LLNJ2HC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So far, no hassle from the Colorado police, but they are technically illegal to use in Colorado. And as a bonus, they keep my hat on my head when on the highway!

[cfriedman67]

Question, is noice cancelling the same as decibel reduction? I have tried to research online but never seem to get a conclusive answer. I use these that I purchased from Amazon. Loop Experience Ear Plugs for Concerts – High Fidelity Hearing Protection for Noise Reduction, Motorcycles, Work & Noise Sensitivity – 8 Ear Tips in XS, S, M, L – 18dB Noise Cancelling. I’ll Ike these a lot but would like to use my Apple airbud pros with noise cancelling for some of the reasons you mentioned but wasn’t sure if it would give the same type of protection.

Thanks

[cc2Arider]

RE: noise cancelling vs. decibel reduction:

Yes, these can be the same for the audio frequencies which many characterize as "objectionable". To most people, the "objectionable" frequencies are in the upper (higher) range. This is why your exhaust still sounds "good" even with ear plugs. The typical foam ear plugs are simple "low pass" filters. The physics is quite interesting...

Noise cancelling technology simply reads the audio sample and applies a facsimile waveform of the opposite polarity. This is then "added" to the original input signal, with the resulting output to your ears a much reduced amplitude waveform. In effect, the offending waveform is "cancelled"...there are limitations, of course.

Craig C

[cfriedman67]

RE: noise cancelling vs. decibel reduction:

Yes, these can be the same for the audio frequencies which many characterize as "objectionable". To most people, the "objectionable" frequencies are in the upper (higher) range. This is why your exhaust still sounds "good" even with ear plugs. The typical foam ear plugs are simple "low pass" filters. The physics is quite interesting...

Noise cancelling technology simply reads the audio sample and applies a facsimile waveform of the opposite polarity. This is then "added" to the original input signal, with the resulting output to your ears a much reduced amplitude waveform. In effect, the offending waveform is "cancelled"...there are limitations, of course.

Craig C

Thanks Craig. I guess the limitations of wearing noise canceling earbuds is not an issue in the MKIV considering it is open to the elements such as wind noise etc…

[Bob Cowan]

Foam ear plugs work really well. Get some with the highest dB rating. Keep in mind that the dB scale is not linear, it's logarithmic. There's a big difference between 32dB and 33dB. Try a couple of types until you find the one that fits you correctly. That's one of the problems with plugs like the Sonic Defenders. They work really well. But you have to try a few sets until you find the one that fits you correctly. Ear canal size has very little correlation to body size. I've seen some pretty big guys with tiny canals. (Yes, I look in a LOT of ears).

Getting them in far enough to actually work takes some practice. The Mack's Ultra Soft work really well, and are easy to get in. But I have trouble getting a grip on them to get them out.

I use the tulip shaped foam plugs from Honeywell. They fit me well, are easy to get in and out, and are rated at 33dB.

I also have a pair of Bose noise canceling plugs. They are great, I love these. So much quieter without blocking important noises like horns and sirens. Also easily connects to my phone so I can listen to music, podcast, etc. They don't block out wind noise very well, though. It's improved, but you can still hear it. Add a hoodie or hat to cover the ears, and they're perfect.

I also have a set of Bose noise cancelling headphones. They are nice because they block the wind noise, keep your ears warm, and hold your hat on. But they pick up the exhaust note as a soft ticking sound. Very annoying.

I've been wearing ear plugs for decades. Never been hassled by the man for it. Unless your local constabulary are real jerks, I wouldn't worry about it.

[J R Jones]

My hearing is compromised from USAF jet engines, race cars and motorcycles. In addition I find side exhaust, in endurance racing, can give me carbon monoxide poisoning.
My ergonomic engineered solution is exhaust to the back of the car. Way less fatigue.

I find ear plugs can loosen and fall out, or are so tight, they are uncomfortable.
There have been circumstances when I needed ear plugs and I was not prepared. I found that a tissue (Kleenex) or toilet paper can work surprisingly well.
I tear off a section and chew it into a soft damp mass. It can be pre-shaped or I force it into place and forms itself. If the wad is big enough I can be easily removed.
Before you dismiss the acoustics, try it, you will be surprised, wet paper is dense.

[LateApex]

Noise cancellation is actually quite an interesting topic (and one I have spent a fair amount of time developing technology for). A couple of comments to add ...

Often, noise cancelling is somewhat limited by the noise reduction (or "occlusion") of the headset, or ear buds. So firstly, one really needs to find a set of ear buds that fit well, and provide a good deal of noise reduction without any active component in play.

Second, noise is fairly stationary (versus transient). Like the hum of tires, or the sound of an exhaust or wind: these noise sources have a dominant frequency (or tone) and fairly consistent volume. This is why "beating" back an inverse waveform works to cancel noise. This approach does not work well for transients (like a gun shot), or for speech. Speach is very interesting to study, but for a headset, is why features like tapping the left ear bud is used to cancel the noise reduction feature, for example when the stewardess comes by to ask if you would like to order some food or a drink.

The most sophisticated systems use something called Voice Activity Detection to automatically switch noise cancellation modes (like thousands of times per second), to allow speach through when needed, and to learn the noise spectrum and cancel that noise the rest of the time.

Maybe I'll dust off the code I developed for Android phones and tune it up for the coupe :-) First though, I am looking for a reasonably priced set of buds, with good occlusion and a 3.5mm jack to plug into a device (like a phone) for the audio processing.

Thanks Paul for your reference to the Etymotic. They have the ER2XR which may fit the bill. 35+ dB occlusion in an active set of ear buds. Chatting with them online a.t.m. Will post a follow-up if that shows promise :-)

[Papa]

A lot of my work is related to digital signal processing. A simple example of how cancelling is done digitally is as follows.

First, you make a copy of the "waveform" and simply shift it 180 degrees out of phase with the original and then add the two together. The result is a zero amplitude waveform.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175941&d=1669590862

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175942&d=1669590862

It's pretty easy to see with a simple sine wave. Adding 1.0 and -1.0 results on 0, as do all the other values.

[LateApex]

A lot of my work is related to digital signal processing. A simple example of how cancelling is done digitally is as follows.

First, you make a copy of the "waveform" and simply shift it 180 degrees out of phase with the original and then add the two together. The result is a zero amplitude waveform.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175941&d=1669590862

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175942&d=1669590862

It's pretty easy to see with a simple sine wave. Adding 1.0 and -1.0 results on 0, as do all the other values.

Nice graphics Papa!

The next exercise is "How do you apply this with many different sources of sound, with varying frequencies, amplitudes and duration?"

DSP is cool.

In my work, I chunk up the 48K bps audio input stream into blocks that are arbitrarily 2K in size, do a modified discrete cosine transformation to the frequency domain and obtain the spectral coefficients for each of the sound bands. Then I modify the amplitude of those bands, for example to compensate for hearing loss shown in an audiogram. Then perform the inverse transformation back to the time domain, and play that sound through a set of ear buds, with about 20 ms of latency, which is barely perceptible. The little supercomputers we carry around in our pockets are very capable DSP engines, with microphones and ear buds. I use Voice Activity Detection algorithms to screen the audio input and determine the spectrum of the noise, and then subtract that out, while allowing voice to pass through when appropriate. Very geeky $#!t.

One can train the system to handle specific kinds of sounds. I even baked in a spousal deafness feature, which allows one to dial up your sweetheart's voice, or not ;-)

Way off topic for a car builders' forum, except that the car is LOUD. I can plug my ears yes, but If one wants to chat with a passenger while protecting their ears, or get route guidance from Google, it becomes interesting (well ... to me anyway)

I have been thinking about a hybrid solution. For the driver, the left ear is plugged, and the right ear "active". Reversed for a passenger. That active ear is coupled with a boom microphone, similar to an avionics headset. And similar to an avionics headset, there is a switch for communication with the passenger or listening to other channels. An active device in one ear passes most state laws, if not all I believe. Has anyone seen such a system in use today?

[LateApex]

I'm on my third order of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072LCHV2S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17
16,000+ miles

It seems like these come in one size Dave. How do you find the fit?

[LateApex]

My hearing is compromised from USAF jet engines, race cars and motorcycles. In addition I find side exhaust, in endurance racing, can give me carbon monoxide poisoning.
My ergonomic engineered solution is exhaust to the back of the car. Way less fatigue.

I find ear plugs can loosen and fall out, or are so tight, they are uncomfortable.
There have been circumstances when I needed ear plugs and I was not prepared. I found that a tissue (Kleenex) or toilet paper can work surprisingly well.
I tear off a section and chew it into a soft damp mass. It can be pre-shaped or I force it into place and forms itself. If the wad is big enough I can be easily removed.
Before you dismiss the acoustics, try it, you will be surprised, wet paper is dense.

I like your ergonomic solution :-)

Have you found a way to route pipes rearward on the coupe? Frame cross members run side to side, with 4.5" of ground clearance. Seems like major surgery :-)

[Papa]

Nice graphics Papa!

The next exercise is "How do you apply this with many different sources of sound, with varying frequencies, amplitudes and duration?"

DSP is cool.

In my work, I chunk up the 48K bps audio input stream into blocks that are arbitrarily 2K in size, do a modified discrete cosine transformation to the frequency domain and obtain the spectral coefficients for each of the sound bands. Then I modify the amplitude of those bands, for example to compensate for hearing loss shown in an audiogram. Then perform the inverse transformation back to the time domain, and play that sound through a set of ear buds, with about 20 ms of latency, which is barely perceptible. The little supercomputers we carry around in our pockets are very capable DSP engines, with microphones and ear buds. I use Voice Activity Detection algorithms to screen the audio input and determine the spectrum of the noise, and then subtract that out, while allowing voice to pass through when appropriate. Very geeky $#!t.

One can train the system to handle specific kinds of sounds. I even baked in a spousal deafness feature, which allows one to dial up your sweetheart's voice, or not ;-)

Way off topic for a car builders' forum, except that the car is LOUD. I can plug my ears yes, but If one wants to chat with a passenger while protecting their ears, or get route guidance from Google, it becomes interesting (well ... to me anyway)

I have been thinking about a hybrid solution. For the driver, the left ear is plugged, and the right ear "active". Reversed for a passenger. That active ear is coupled with a boom microphone, similar to an avionics headset. And similar to an avionics headset, there is a switch for communication with the passenger or listening to other channels. An active device in one ear passes most state laws, if not all I believe. Has anyone seen such a system in use today?

I work mostly with radio spectrum, so digitizing at very high sample rates (10s of gigabits/sec.) and then doing channelization, reconstruction, mixing, up and down conversion, adaptive beam forming, demodulation/modulation, decoding/encoding, depacketizing/packetizing, equalization, gain leveling, etc.

If you are ever in the market for a job, give me a shout.

Dave

[LateApex]

It is rather amazing to see the diverse backgrounds of members of this forum, all of whom are conspiring to build and drive really neat cars. I am not sure what we all have in common, except for problem solving, creative engineering, a certain sense of artistry and the wind in our face. Makes me smile!

[Dave Tabor]

It seems like these come in one size Dave. How do you find the fit?

They work great for me - they seem to be a bit more 'reproducible' than putting in the foam ones which sometimes need to be re-rolled and put in again to work right. I use them on the street (got the drab-colored ones to decrease attention) and with a helmet at the track. And I pass them out to passengers as 'you can keep these' as well as stuff pairs around so I'm never caught without.

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17

[Blitzboy54]

My wife and I use silicon ear plugs much like the ones seen in this thread and work great. We can talk without really any issue. As we gear up for longer trips I would like to find something like Papa is using with an intercom. The issue is like he said they are illegal in most states to have over the ear covers. I have seen some insertable noise canceling units. I may try something like that down the road.

[flyboyjy]

So more than 30 years ago when I got into flying I quickly found out that an exhaust system and muffler on a piston engined aircraft really was just a straight pipe and empty can. Even the 4 cylinder Lycomings can be deafening. My first headset was one of the basic David Clark headsets. Worked ok, on single engine aircraft. Jump ahead a few years flying cargo in twin engine Cessna's with turbo charged Continental 6 cylinders and again no real exhaust system tended to waste ones hearing. The cure was to get noise cancelling headsets. I bought a kit and upgraded my David Clarks. I changed out the speakers, microphone and added a black box in the cable. They would pick up the sounds surrounding the ears and emit an opposite sound wave and cancel the sounds. Works awesome. Until the battery dies and it becomes a regular headset again. Then flying jet aircraft most companies do not allow headsets like this so I had to resort to this stupid light weight thing that fits in one ear and usually leaves the other exposed. So you would put the earpiece in which ever ear was closest to the window and be able to hear the other pilot with the exposed ear. After years of the roar of rushing air at the front of the aircraft tends to kill ones hearing. I don't remember having noise canceling types available, but it was more than 12 years since I last looked for a set. And having an cabin pressurization alarm going off in one ear has given me a permanent ring in the ears. BUT I think if a noise canceling light weight version of the set I had for flying jet aircraft were available that would be the way to go. Otherwise ear plugs will be the way to go.

[David Williamson]

I have posted about these before. We use Eartec Ultralite HD, they are noise canceling head sets that cover one ear and have boom mike. We use them plus one ear plug, it cuts the noise down and allows you to talk with your passenger. They connect to each other by blue tooth and will work between cars if you are fairly close to each other. A Coupe has a very different sound from the Roadster, more engine and less road/wind noise a low frequency that is hard to cut out so it is still loud. Each engine and exhaust combination will be different as well. I have a Levy Dart 363 with Boig quiet pipes.... still loud.
David W

[VKannan]

How many people opt to modify the mufflers rather than wear ear protection? Seems like it would be much more effective to just chop out that middle section and replace it with something that is quieter, like this? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/stw-cr33

I'm sure I'm not the first to think about this though so I must be missing something.

[edwardb]

How many people opt to modify the mufflers rather than wear ear protection? Seems like it would be much more effective to just chop out that middle section and replace it with something that is quieter, like this? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/stw-cr33

I'm sure I'm not the first to think about this though so I must be missing something.

You're assuming the only source of noise is the exhaust. Clearly, getting the exhaust quieter will help. But unless you do under car exhaust and out the back, it's right by your ears in both the Roadster and the Coupe. There are other components. Engine, tires, other vehicles, wind (in open top cars), and so on. It all adds up. These are modified race cars and even with max effort, don't have the noise suppression, insulation, and exhaust systems of a production car.

[Jacob McCrea]

The above is consistent with my second generation Type 65. Varying amounts of noise come from the in-tank fuel pump, the valvetrain (nothing wrong with it), probably the intake tract, the differential (it's also assembled correctly), etc. The aftermarket throttle body whistled like a diesel with straight pipes until I smoothed the IAC port. You could take the exhaust out of the picture and still have a lot of sources of noise.

[Fman]

With a 427 and Gas'n touring pipes the constant loudness began to wear my ears down. I experimented with some different ear plugs and finally found a pair of the Vibes noise cancelling with attenuating filters. They are very comfortable to wear and almost unnoticeable when in your ear. You can still get a good dose of the side pipe but cuts it down to a more tolerable level.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018WPOQSG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Nigel Allen]

How many people opt to modify the mufflers rather than wear ear protection? Seems like it would be much more effective to just chop out that middle section and replace it with something that is quieter, like this? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/stw-cr33

I'm sure I'm not the first to think about this though so I must be missing something.

My Coyote has high flow cats and FFR side pipes. It's bearable most of the time. Wind noise above 80kph is bad, as is road noise from adjacent vehicles. I use Sony WF-1000XM4 noise canceling wireless earbuds. They attenuate well enough up to 80kph, then I tap the left bud and switch to noise cancelling. I find it gives me excellent protection and can listen to tunes / navigation. I might look like a bit of a dope, but the earbuds work splendidly

Spoke to my audiologist, he confirmed that active cancelling is very safe to use.

Cheers,

Nigel

[facultyofmusic]

On a related ear-protection note, does anyone have comfy earmuffs they'd recommend to use with bluetooth earbuds? Those earbuds stick out of my ear and get pressed into my ear when I wear a beanie or every ear muff I've tried. It gets really uncomfortable. I've yet to find a nice and fluffy earmuff with enough above-ear space to house the earbuds.

[Al_C]

Thanks for this post. I know the topic is covered every one in a while, and it's good to see it again. I agree with much of this, and am always seeking new ways to deal with noise. For me, sound hasn't been as much of an issue because I was a musician in a prior life and lost the high frequencies (and more) as a result. I still use foam plugs in both ears on the interstate, but don't wear anything locally. I like the idea of a headset because I am forever losing hats. (maybe that should be a thread...) Even my field hat with a chin strap wants to fly away. So, really, nothing much to add here, but I appreciate the topic!

[Bob Cowan]

On a related ear-protection note, does anyone have comfy earmuffs they'd recommend to use with bluetooth earbuds? Those earbuds stick out of my ear and get pressed into my ear when I wear a beanie or every ear muff I've tried. It gets really uncomfortable. I've yet to find a nice and fluffy earmuff with enough above-ear space to house the earbuds.

Get your favorite ski ear muffs, and modify them a bit to fit better.

[Papa]

On a related ear-protection note, does anyone have comfy earmuffs they'd recommend to use with bluetooth earbuds? Those earbuds stick out of my ear and get pressed into my ear when I wear a beanie or every ear muff I've tried. It gets really uncomfortable. I've yet to find a nice and fluffy earmuff with enough above-ear space to house the earbuds.

I use a version of these to let me fall asleep to music without disturbing my wife. Maybe this could meet your needs?

https://www.sleepphones.com/sleepphones/bluetooth-sleep-headphones

[Windsor]

I use a version of these to let me fall asleep to music without disturbing my wife. Maybe this could meet your needs?

https://www.sleepphones.com/sleepphones/bluetooth-sleep-headphones

My wife uses one of those now-and-again.

On the original subject, I'd like to toss another vote in the Etymotic hat. I've been using their original wired in-ear plugs since the mid '00s for motorcycle riding. Looks like the modern equivalents are the MK5 (discontinued?) and HF3 (added microphone) "High Definition Earphone" line.

They also have active and passive hearing protection models if you don't want a phone wired to your ear.

[marshallmosty]

I'm thinking about giving these a try:

https://www.etymotic.com/product/hf3/
Etymotic HF3 delivers clear sound and great details using high performance dynamic drivers. Just like our more expensive models, the HF3 offers Etymotic’s renowned passive isolation of 35-42 dB attenuation combined with an in-line microphone with controls. MFI Certified to work with iPhone, talk on the phone or use with your computer for video conferencing calls.



https://www.etymotic.com/product/etymotion-bt-cable-mmcx-connectors/
Etymotic Etymotion Wireless Bluetooth Cable with AKM Velvet Sound DAC and Amplifier

[LateApex]

You're assuming the only source of noise is the exhaust. Clearly, getting the exhaust quieter will help. But unless you do under car exhaust and out the back, it's right by your ears in both the Roadster and the Coupe. There are other components. Engine, tires, other vehicles, wind (in open top cars), and so on. It all adds up. These are modified race cars and even with max effort, don't have the noise suppression, insulation, and exhaust systems of a production car.

I am curious about how one gets an under body car exhaust to the back of the Coupe. I have 4.5" from frame rail to Macadam, and no obvious routes for piping. Does anybody have pictures of such a setup?

[LateApex]

I have posted about these before. We use Eartec Ultralite HD, they are noise canceling head sets that cover one ear and have boom mike. We use them plus one ear plug, it cuts the noise down and allows you to talk with your passenger. They connect to each other by blue tooth and will work between cars if you are fairly close to each other. A Coupe has a very different sound from the Roadster, more engine and less road/wind noise a low frequency that is hard to cut out so it is still loud. Each engine and exhaust combination will be different as well. I have a Levy Dart 363 with Boig quiet pipes.... still loud.
David W

David, what level of noise reduction do you believe the Boig pipes provide (vis the kit twin pipes?). From an exhaust note perspective anyway ...