View Full Version : Transmission removal and repair
I know this is something that I have to do, but I've been procrastinating getting into it. Probably one of the top things on my list of things that I didn't want to have to do now that the car is together, painted, etc. It's pretty straightforward, I think. There is no 5th gear at this time. I obviously screwed the pooch when I rebuilt the trans before it went in the car. Must have either overlooked the fact that 5th gear was not engaging, or the gear came loose after it was driven for a while because of a stretched 5th gear snap ring. Anyhow, now I have to come up with a way to support the car high enough to get the trans out, and I guess I'm getting old, but I really don't trust doing this up on jack stands anymore. It operates fantastic as a 4 speed, and reverse works perfectly as well, so it's just to make longer trips on the freeway realistic from the standpoint of noise and fuel consumption. Was looking at Red Barchetta's (Dean) "Poor Man's Quick Lift" from way back on CC. Now there's another over on Talk Cobra called the "Cheap-O-Lift". Between those two, and some DIY "Lift Stands", I'm trying to figure what will work the best, and will be within my budget which now that I retired is basically $0! Unless I can coerce some friends or relatives to take pity on me and help, I'm also going to have to buy a transmission jack because I don't think I can drop it by myself, and I know I can't press it back up when I'm done.
Anyhow, thanks for listening to me whine about this. This will be a project that I hope to complete over this winter. If anyone has any other suggestions, please let me know. I'm open to all ideas.
michael everson
11-11-2022, 05:28 AM
You might find it safer, easier, and cheaper to have a shop do it for you. Its a 30 minute job on a lift standing up.
Not sure a transmission jack will help much due to the way it needs to come out it cannot be dropped straight down.
Mike
Since the car is IRS, will you even be able to get the drive shaft out with the trans and engine in place? It has been a while, but somehow I remember needing to install the drive shaft into the trans before the trans was installed into the chassis.
AROCK
11-11-2022, 12:17 PM
Don't believe a shop with a lift will be able to remove the trans in 30 minutes.
I have remove a TKX trans 3 times in the last month. I know exactly what it takes to remove and install a tremec in a roadster. If you want to know how then ease feel free to PM me.
I wrote the whole process in your thread about 3vweeks ago. It still should be available.
Mike, thanks for the injection of logic. This is something that I'm going to need to investigate the cost versus building or purchasing the necessary equipment to pull it off.
Olli, not sure if you have the newer IRS or not, but I have the older T-Bird unit, and I was able to install the driveshaft after the trans was in place.
Arock, I sent a PM. Did not find your reply in my other thread.
Avalanche325
11-14-2022, 04:08 PM
Pull the engine and trans. With an SBF and decent hoist, it doesn't take that long.
If it is a TKO, I would do the Liberty Gear upgrade while I was in there. CF lined synchros, bronze shift fork pads, and upgraded shift rails.
rich grsc
11-14-2022, 09:07 PM
Pulling the whole engine just to get to the tranny is a bunch of extra work.. Drain all the fluids, disconnect electric wiring and fuel lines, headers etc. Way too much work
Dave 53
11-14-2022, 11:36 PM
Not sure of the name of the place, but check the shop in San Ramon on San Ramon Vally Blvd. next to Morgans rocks and sort of across the street from Wendy's. Just down the boulevard from your friend's breakfast place. I have a friend that use to wrench there and another friend that takes his 60's Mustangs there. I don't know that they could work on the tranny, but they could certainly get it out of the car.
Not to bag but... I've got the tranny out of my 818 right now to put in an LSD. I literally lifted it out of the car and carried it over to my workbench by myself with my arms.
CraigS
11-15-2022, 08:52 AM
I helped some friends remove their trans. What we did was remove the aluminum from the trans tunnel. We made up a device from a ratchet strap webbing. I will try to describe it. Webbing under the front of the trans and up both sides to 15in above the top of the tunnel. Run both ends towards the rear of the car and down under the rear of the trans and tie them together. You can actually put the knot anywhere but I thought it make more more sense describing it that way. So you end up w/ 2 loops of webbing that a guy standing stradling the tunnel can pull up on. Adjust the length so he can keep his back straight. This allows him to take most all of the weight while the guy underneath moves the trans around and doesn't have to worry about it falling on him. For us it was easiest to slowly lower the trans onto his belly and pull him, trans, and creeper out from under the car by his ankles. Then lift the trans off him. The trans is not all that heavy but it is awkward.
kgkeys
11-15-2022, 09:24 AM
Craig, in college, I did basically the exact same thing to a '79 Toyota Celica, but with a chain through the shifter hole, a barbell, and 3 guys.
Kyle
rthomas98
11-15-2022, 09:27 AM
The other option to get the car in the air is get some 12" wheel cribs from race ramps. set of 4 will set you back $400 which isn't much more than the solutions you showed above. Just need a floor jack that will go high enough to set each wheel in the crib.
Bob Cowan
11-15-2022, 09:42 AM
Getting the trans in and out without a removable crossmember is a royal PITA. It can certainly be done, but it's not fun. Lying on your back wrestling with a transmission at our age is a recipe for disaster. One wrong move........
There are a number of ways to support a car higher than a standard jack stand; cheap-o-lift, wheel cribs, etc. but you need a floor jack tall enough to get the car up that high. If you don't have one, they can be pretty expensive. And, really, unless you have extra long monkey arms, those methods can place the transmission up out of your reach and make the job more difficult.
Been there. Done that!
AROCK
11-15-2022, 12:12 PM
The jack that will lift the roadster 20" , which is more then enough to remove the trans , cost $150 at Harbor Freight . It is a low profile, 20" jack made by Daytona. I have used mine 4 times to remove Tremec Tkx trans. That weight 25lbs more then the TKO.
If you want instructions on remove a trans from the roadster just ask. I am 79 years old and can remove one with a younger helper in about 1 hour.
BEAR-AvHistory
11-15-2022, 01:35 PM
Am 80 & work without a helper. Always try to make things easy as possible. Ruff description how I get the trans out for clutch replacement. A few hours work.
If you do split the trans from the engine on jack stands I have found this works. Cheap manual transmission jack to support the trans. Or straps to support the trans from the tunnel frame. Support the engine with a floor jack so you can change its angle if you need to. There is some play in the engine mounts.
Remove the shift tower 6 screws. That will give you enough room to slide it back & have the input shaft clear the bellhousing.
Second if you can't locate ready made dowels you can make them by cutting the heads off the appropriate sized bolts. Dowel will keep the trans input shaft aligned with the clutch disc & prevent the trans weight from damaging or pushing it out of alignment.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazine.com-vbulletin/850x637/trans_in_5e14e46e06832c2e512be02adb43b55ab8aee587. jpg
Remove red section
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazine.com-vbulletin/850x637/tko_600rb_08def3accf2255d7fc685d06df929aae04424a8b .jpg
Home made dowels
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazine.com-vbulletin/700x525/clutchas_bca4a8da6116394d6125e19c08e40afa8fdba813. jpg
Transmission jack
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazine.com-vbulletin/732x975/bells_89be99dfb05492cc39a4c0ceace37f48ba31d47e.jpg
Transmission pushed back
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazine.com-vbulletin/850x703/80-midpoints_7cf3fbf8edd04ee475d9ec5530f731df7d90576c .jpg
Working height of car off the floor. Like to have clearance to work but also to keep my arms slightly bent at full reach.
OK, so WOW, I didn't anticipate this much response when I originally posted this!
Avalanche, Like Rich says, too much additional work, and lots of potential for damage to the new paint.
Dave, OK, I guess I'll need to find out what your workout routine is!
Craig, I was thinking about that, but the thought of someone standing in the car above that's on cribs, or ??, just freaks me out.
RT, Considered the two part, 12 inch cribs from Race Ramps. What I'm going to try is making a 2 level crib that I can get the jack under the top plywood layer that the tire will sit on so that I can raise that layer up and slide the lower section underneath. This way it only goes up 6 inches each go round, and the jack will not have to go up as high. Then Once the lower section is slid into place, the open side, towards the outside of the car, will get a piece of ply screwed to it to stabilize that side. I'll post pics once I get them built.
Bob, I know exactly what you're saying. I'm leaning towards a trans jack to support, lower, and raise it back up. Haven't done this under a car since my '66 Mustang back in the late '60s.
Arock, thanks again for all your help.
Kevin, just curious, but did I understand you correctly that you were able to clear the bellhousing with the input shaft? If the trans will clear the bellhousing, that will decrease the difficulty factor a bunch. I'm going to make the dowel pins.
Thanks to everyone for all the input. Once I get my "idea" for wheel cribs built I'll post some pictures.
A couple of 4x4s and 2x8s will make a solid crib. Through-bolted to dollies and you've got yourself a mobile platform. Working underneath was worry free.
174974
RJD, I've got a set of those skates that I used extensively when I was building. I considered doing that since otherwise the car will be sitting more in the middle of the two car bay until I'm done, and that means the boss's car would end up parked in the driveway:(. It would also add a couple inches to the height of the cribs. Lots of good ideas. Now to just test everything out.
BEAR-AvHistory
11-15-2022, 11:40 PM
Kevin, just curious, but did I understand you correctly that you were able to clear the bellhousing with the input shaft? If the trans will clear the bellhousing, that will decrease the difficulty factor a bunch. I'm going to make the dowel pins.
Thanks to everyone for all the input. Once I get my "idea" for wheel cribs built I'll post some pictures.
Bell housing needs to be unbolted after the transmission is slid back. This way it can be shifted around to get the full clearance. Might be able to shift it a git more with some help but I had to remove the bellhousing anyway. There is about 1/8" interference with it bolted in. Once it was unbolted it could be jiggled a bit & removed. In my two cases the transmission was never taken down (no issue just lower the trans jack if I wanted it out) because I was changing the clutch/Flywheel assembly & not servicing the trans other than a fluid change.
Think the big piece that makes it work was removing the red shift tower that lets you slide the trans much further back than you can with it in place. Worth making or buying dowels especially when putting it all back together. There is no pressure put on the clutch disc hub by the input shaft which allows it an easy slide completely into the bearing on the flywheel in once the shafts teeth are lined up with with the Hubs teeth.
Putting is back is just jiggle the bellhousing over the input shaft. Bolt the housing to the block, insert dowls & slide the transmission forward onto the dowels.
FWIW Had a '67 Stingray that had many engine, clutch, transmissions over its 28 year life with me. Use to do the slide the trans onto my chest & slide out from under the car. Getting way to old for that stuff. Was there is discovered the dowels.
CraigS
11-16-2022, 08:39 AM
W/o help a plate on your jack would be good. Trans jacks are usually meant to be used w/ the trans strapped to the platform like you can see in Bear's picture. My idea would be a piece of 3/4 plywood bolted to the jack pad (either trans jack or your existing jack). Think of a plywood piece that is almost as wide as the space between the frame rails say 18inches. This way the trans can not fall out until the plywood is the thickness of the trans below the bottom of the main 4in tubes. But you need to be able to get your hands/arms up there so make it narrower but put small walls on each side. Cut your plywood to maybe 10in wide and use the extra to cut some pieces maybe 2-3in wide and screw them to the side edges of the 10 wide piece. BTW the plywood should be just an inch or 2 shorter than the trans not including the input shaft. Certainly this plywood will be in the way but it nearly guarantees that the trans can not fall on you. You can remove all bolts except one of the top trans to bell and one of the top bell to block. Get them loosened but still hand tight. Once you are down to just those 2 bolts then put the jack/plywood under there.
Jeff Kleiner
11-16-2022, 09:57 AM
Regarding trans jacks and such...I've never had any great success using any sort of jack with manual transmissions; unlike automatics they don't ever have a good flat area on the bottom and always seem to want to roll one way or the other or teeter front to back. What has worked reasonably well for me when doing trans R&R on our cars is using a couple of tie down straps ( for this purpose I prefer the type with a cam buckle rather than a true ratchet) run up through the tunnel to serve as slings catching the trans at the tail as well as the forward area of the main case. With the tunnel top off you hook the strap ends over the square tubes or around a couple of short sections of 2X4 bridging across. This way you don't have to hold all the weight or try to bench press the trans up into position---the straps are doing the hard work! With one guy working above to work the straps up or down and another below to do the manipulating it's really not bad at all and nobody is going to have the thing land on them!
Good luck!
Jeff
Craig and Jeff, thanks for the ideas and other possible methods of R&R. At this point I guess I won't know exactly what I'm up against until I get it in the air and get this started. Good to have some other options for the process in case I have to go to plan B, C, or maybe Z! Jeff, I was thinking about the shape of the transmission, and I've considered trying to put something together to put on the transmission jack to stabilize the trans while it sits on there.
Doing a test build of my idea for cribs later today to see how they work with my jack, and whether they'll take the car up high enough. Got a couple of things I've got to work out, then I can get the balance of the materials and get all four completed. I'll get some pictures up once I get it on the cribs.
Thanks again
rich grsc
11-16-2022, 12:07 PM
Screwing around trying to balance a transmission on a jack is worse than doing it by hand.. Just find a couple of younger guys and a case of brew and a large pizza...done and done
The advantage of being a member of a Cobra club, when I need a hand with heavy or awkward parts, I have several guys to help. Usually two or three working and just as many telling us how to do it.:rolleyes:;)
BEAR-AvHistory
11-16-2022, 03:36 PM
Strange. First off have no problem with pulling it out by hand for young guys, did it myself for a lot of years. Those days are long gone.
Never had a issue with balancing the transmission on the jack as its never been unstable on it. As you can see in the pictures its not even tied down with the jacks attached strap. Been in & out a number of times & is very stable.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazine.com-vbulletin/700x525/clutchas_bca4a8da6116394d6125e19c08e40afa8fdba813. jpg
If it was unstable the strap is there to hold it in position.
Rich, that was my plan, well at least to get one guy younger than me so once I'm on the floor I don't have to get up till it's finished. Beer and pizza sound like a good incentive. This time of year is going to be a bit tough with the holidays and everyone is busy, but hopefully I'll find some guys that may be interested.
Kevin, I was wondering about that myself, especially after I saw your photos. That's the one larger ticket item that I'm not going to skip.
BEAR-AvHistory
11-16-2022, 10:53 PM
Rich, that was my plan, well at least to get one guy younger than me so once I'm on the floor I don't have to get up till it's finished. Beer and pizza sound like a good incentive. This time of year is going to be a bit tough with the holidays and everyone is busy, but hopefully I'll find some guys that may be interested.
Kevin, I was wondering about that myself, especially after I saw your photos. That's the one larger ticket item that I'm not going to skip.
Not a big, big ticket. The 450lb unit in the picture at Harbor Freight is around $130. Bought mine 7 years ago at a HF sale under $100. Exact same unit from other sources like Amazon can run up to $190. Uses a 1/2" ratchet wrench to operate it or a 3/8" one using a 3/8 to 1/2 adaptor.
Lots of uses. Pull & replaced a number of car, truck & SUV fuel tanks including the Cobra. Works nice as an engine support under the MOROSO oil pan. Nice to raise & lower wheels to match the lug nut height & so on. Its on 4 caster wheels & makes a quick & dirty dolly with the strap to pull it.
Peeker
11-18-2022, 09:24 PM
I built stands out of 2X4’s about 16”-18” high. That was plenty high enough for my son and me to get underneath and pull mine out. Mine is a T45 so the bell housing is integral to the transmission, so if your bell housing is not part of the transmission, that would be plenty high. No jack required for the transmission with two people.
Well, I'm sitting here with the worst cold I think I've ever had. We were supposed to have the whole family up for Thanksgiving dinner, but we had to cancel. Anyhow, my design for my two part wheel cribs worked great, I just had to modify the direction the jack came into them so it could sit in the bay where it is, and not tie up the whole garage. Parts are all cut, just waiting on me to feel up to assembling them. Will have more on that hopefully next week.
I do have two rather stupid questions that I need to answer before I get started. I haven't pulled a trans in years, so I can't recall the best way to drain the fluid so that it doesn't pour all over the floor and make a supreme mess. Filling it back up I know what to do. The other item is, in order to make alignment dowels I need to know what size bolts hold the trans in place. I'd like to make up the dowels before I start the work. I searched everywhere I could, and the only reference I found was for an M12-1-3/4" long, with a 1.75 thread pitch. I guess the length would be 42 mm.
Anyhow if anyone has the answers it would help out a bunch.
BEAR-AvHistory
11-25-2022, 09:48 PM
I do have two rather stupid questions that I need to answer before I get started. I haven't pulled a trans in years, so I can't recall the best way to drain the fluid so that it doesn't pour all over the floor and make a supreme mess. Filling it back up I know what to do. The other item is, in order to make alignment dowels I need to know what size bolts hold the trans in place. I'd like to make up the dowels before I start the work. I searched everywhere I could, and the only reference I found was for an M12-1-3/4" long, with a 1.75 thread pitch. I guess the length would be 42 mm.
Anyhow if anyone has the answers it would help out a bunch.
Will look in the morning at mine to measure them. IIRC three can be a bit long but one needs to be short PS upper because of the external cast webbing on the transmission. It would be a PIA to remove if trapped by the webbing.
If you still have the tail shaft plug no fluid will leak. If not try some Duct tape to seal it.
Thanks Kevin. That would be good to know.
CraigS
11-26-2022, 09:01 AM
I looked at Bear's pic again and see a detail that I missed previously. The plate that the trans sits on is V shaped. Seems like that makes all the difference. The trans jacks I have used (at work w/ car on the lift) all had flat plates. For the bolt size you can remove one of the top bolts w/ no problem. I probably wouldn't drive it that way (although moving it around the driveway or garage wouldn't worry me) but sitting w/o the bolt will be no problem.
weendoggy
11-26-2022, 09:15 AM
My advice is drain it no matter what! All you need to do is lose the rear plug and/or tip the transmission on it's side pulling it out or however, and you will have your mess you talk about. Also, some "butt plugs" stick out a bit and interfere with removal. As for dowels (pilot studs, not the dowels themselves), I don't see the need, even if you remove your clutch you should always use the pilot tool to align. If you don't remove the clutch, the transmission should slip back in easily. It boils down to how many shortcuts you want to take.
thebicman
11-26-2022, 11:09 AM
Did the same as RJD but without the wheel dollies. Wanted it high enough to work on with no chance of movement.
BEAR-AvHistory
11-26-2022, 12:47 PM
Looks like with 3 of the bolts fully seated about 3.5" working length is good. The length is not critical as long as you can move the trans onto them before the input shaft mates with the clutch hub, as there is no interference in getting them out.
The upper PS bolt on my trans was in a pocket caused by the transmission casting so there is only a small amount of space to back it out. If I were to do it again would not use it or just make it slightly longer than the actual mounting bolt so you can get a pliers on it to back it out. Grind a few flats on if to grip on. The other three have no restriction & can be backed out with a heavy screwdriver
MikeD
11-28-2022, 12:02 PM
This is not a bad job as long as you have a heated garage, coffee and donuts.
Phil and I did this and made a couple videos of the process:
removal:
https://youtu.be/quRZRB26i4g
install:
https://youtu.be/p_dvqeQvWhU
We didn't remove the engine, and we were able to wrangle the tranny out of Phil's Mark 2 frame.
I think the key is a couple old guys, donuts, and coffee...
Are you in Minnesota? we can stop by. :)
Thanks Mike. I actually watched both of your videos, and I'm still going to do it anyway! Just kidding. I liked the on-the-fly problem solving. It was more realistic than when parts get cut out of the videos to make it appear smoother. I wish that for this project that I was in Minnesota. I'd take you up on that offer! By the way, you're not planning on being in the San Francisco Bay Area anytime soon?
Flip Smiley
11-28-2022, 05:03 PM
We didn’t show on the video but you need to remove the shifter before removal or installation. Pretty obvious just don’t want to mislead anyone. Good luck!
Phil
Flip, yeah, I figured that that would need to be removed. You guys didn't address in the video about the fluid in the trans as far as draining before removing. I know how it fills, but I haven't removed a trans in decades. I obviously don't want a mess all over me or the floor, so what did you find was the cleanest way to drain before starting the removal?
OK, so upon further investigation, I realized why I got no answers on this question. Because it is so stupid it didn't deserve an answer. I finally found a diagram of the trans showing the fill and drain plugs. DUH!! Well now this cold has developed into bronchitis, so I'm hoping that with meds I'll be feeling like working on this sometime next week. Again, I really appreciate all the help, and thanks to everyone for not pointing out how stupid my questions really are!
Flip Smiley
11-28-2022, 08:09 PM
Glad you found the drain and fill plugs. We drained before removal via drain plug. We filled through the top before installing the shifter mechanism. We used the fill plug hole only to check fluid level. Fill last thing after drive shaft install to avoid possible leak out the tail shaft. Good luck but really if I can do it anyone can!
Phil
Flip Smiley
11-28-2022, 08:15 PM
Make that if Mike an I can do it anyone can!
Phil
Well, it's been a while since I posted on this. I finally got over my case of bronchitis when the wife and I were at Costco and as she was getting in the car, she slipped on some loose dirt on the curb and rolled her ankle hard enough to break two bones in her foot! So, having been the patient many times over the 50 years we've been married it was now her turn. It has taken a long time for her to get to a point where she didn't need crutches, which she said were designed to kill her, and during that time she was concerned that if I screwed up doing this work on the car that we would both be screwed, so I had to wait until now to get started. I continued to modify my wheel crib design until I got it to work well, and was sure it would interlock and be stable. Got the car up a couple days ago, and so far I'm pleased with the results.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52700640322_790c21e6b3_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ohYyiG)20230220_135933 (https://flic.kr/p/2ohYyiG) by Rick Paul (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156322842@N02/), on Flickr
I've started removing the Metco safety hoop and the "A" frame, and disconnecting wires, etc. Removed the tunnel cover and wrestled with the E-brake handle for the last time. I plan to install the E-Stopp system while I've got it all apart. Anyway, I may need to get another body over here to help remove the actual transmission. I've discovered over the last few days exactly how much strength I've lost over the last couple of years. Just breaking the torque on a few of the bolts was a herculean task! I was just checking a few items recommended in some responses and figured I'd do an update. I guess I'll need a floor jack under the rear of the engine before I start the removal. Almost missed that one.
Dave 53
02-20-2023, 05:58 PM
Give me a call if you need some dumb muscles. Just helped Ken put his engine / tranny in on Saturday.
I really appreciate the offer, but at this point Dave, I'm going to need someone who can tell me how I put this thing together!
Been trying to take my time so that I don't make any stupid mistakes. Well, I tried to remove the transmission "A" frame without a jack under the engine. Got it out and doesn't appear to be any damage done. Anyhow, I drained the trans and was about to remove the driveshaft. Now I remember torquing the driveshaft bolts to around 70ftlbs, but for the life of me I can't figure how I could have done that. First, the 14mm size that it calls for in the doorstop, I mean the instruction manual, doesn't fit on the bolts, and even if it did, I can't get a ratchet in there, and then to generate the power to remove the bolts. Am I missing something here? I need to get these removed so that I can try to get the transmission out, but right now I'm stymied.
I believe the bolts are 12mm 12pt, same as all Mustangs. I use a long extension and an impact on the solid axle drive shaft. Not sure if that will work for you on the IRS.
Thanks Bob. I'll give that a try tomorrow.
Bob Cowan
02-20-2023, 10:21 PM
I really appreciate the offer, but at this point Dave, I'm going to need someone who can tell me how I put this thing together!
Been trying to take my time so that I don't make any stupid mistakes. Well, I tried to remove the transmission "A" frame without a jack under the engine. Got it out and doesn't appear to be any damage done. Anyhow, I drained the trans and was about to remove the driveshaft. Now I remember torquing the driveshaft bolts to around 70ftlbs, but for the life of me I can't figure how I could have done that. First, the 14mm size that it calls for in the doorstop, I mean the instruction manual, doesn't fit on the bolts, and even if it did, I can't get a ratchet in there, and then to generate the power to remove the bolts. Am I missing something here? I need to get these removed so that I can try to get the transmission out, but right now I'm stymied.
Did you use Ford bolts? They have a spot or red lock-tite on them. You'll need to use some heat to get them loose.
Buy a long handled 12mm box wrench. Sometimes you need to smack it with a hammer to break the bolt loose.
You know, I'm not sure Bob. I thought they came with the driveshaft from FFR. I do know they had a spot of thread locker on them. I actually tried to get a box end on them but was unsuccessful, but I didn't go as low as 12mm. I'll have to see if I can find a seriously long handle box end. Would a heat gun work, or would it be better to use a torch?
Mike.Bray
02-21-2023, 09:32 AM
Buy a long handled 12mm box wrench. Sometimes you need to smack it with a hammer to break the bolt loose.
I used a long 12mm box end wrench and had to whack it really good with a 5lb lead hammer to get them loose.
I think I'm going to determine the right sized wrench for these, get a long handled one, a torch, a pipe to extend the handle and a BFH to impact them! At this point dynamite may be all that's left after I try this. Unfortunately, the car is sitting on wheel cribs, so rotating the driveshaft is going to be a problem. I hope I can actually get a wrench on all four bolts as it sits. Isn't this supposed to be easy!
weendoggy
02-21-2023, 03:15 PM
12mm 12pt head if Ford part. Use a 12pt socket or a wrench (double with another to lock) If you don't know how, Google it. Punch mark the flange by one bolt on both sides (d-line and pinion) This keeps them in "time". Heat the flange by a bolt, one at a time, while applying the necessary strength to loosen it. You can use a propane torch, just move it across the flange area. Once loose, take it out and move to the next one.
Best way is to have the d-line in a certain spot to get to the bolts so just rotate as you go. Very easy to do, just take your time. In your case, you're going to have to figure out how you're going to rotate it.
Thanks Glen. I was so screwed up yesterday that I needed a day off. Had to drive the wife to her doctor's appointment, so I was just doing research today. Your explanation clears a lot of things up. Thanks for the punch marking the flange and d-line to avoid any imbalance that wasn't there before. Yeah, I knew that if I was successful in getting the car up high enough to work, and stable enough to make me comfortable, something else was going to bite me on the ***! I'm going to see if I can get the jack stands in the back high enough to keep everything level and stable, remove the wheel cribs long enough to get the d-line removed, and then replace them. I know I'll have to do it in the reverse when I reassemble, but if all that's left is to tighten the d-line bolts then I'll just have to suffer with a bit less room when I do that.
Thanks to everyone who has been adding suggestions. There are times I question if I was the one who put this thing together or not! Actually, it was my former self, and he doesn't live here any more.
weendoggy
02-22-2023, 11:15 AM
If you can jack up the rear without lowering the front, just remove the cribs, put some jack stands under each side to keep the rears off the floor, then take all the bolts out and then put the cribs back.
That's what I'm hoping will work. Now to figure out why I wasn't able to get a wrench to fit on the bolts the other day. I know everyone keeps saying 12mm, but in the instruction manual I got when I bought the kit, it mentions a 14mm wrench. I've got to figure this out today.
weendoggy
02-22-2023, 01:41 PM
I know everyone keeps saying 12mm, but in the instruction manual I got when I bought the kit, it mentions a 14mm wrench. I've got to figure this out today.
The reason for that is it's what Ford sells and most good parts outlets. A 14mm hex is pretty good size to fit there. Maybe F5 sent some off shoot. You'll figure it out.
rich grsc
02-22-2023, 02:06 PM
If you have the proper Ford bolts, they are 12mm, with 12point heads. Use the correct reduced head bolts, you can get a socket on them.
OK, so it is a 12mm 12pt bolt for the driveshaft. Now all I need is some way to generate the strength to break them loose! Bought a small handheld butane torch to heat the flange up, but I still can't get a socket on the bolts without using a swivel. Problem with that is I broke the swivel trying to loosen the bolts! Either I don't know my own strength, or that was one cheap swivel. Tried a 12mm box end wrench, and double wrenched with a larger and longer box end but was unable to generate enough power to get even the first one loose, so I guess it was a cheap swivel that I broke. It's been too cold to work in the garage the last week or so, and the last two days were the first time I could be out there without being so uncomfortable I couldn't get anything done.
Short of taking the 12mm box end wrench putting it on the bolt and trying to whack it with a 3 or 5 lb. maul, trying not to kill myself in the process, is there anything else that I should be trying? I've just lost so much strength over the last few years that this has turned into more than I counted on.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Rdone585
03-03-2023, 08:57 PM
Can you get to it with a wobble extension? If so perhaps an impact driver can loosen that stuck bolt. If the bolt has red locktight on it you'll have to get it heated with a torch before you'll be able to break it free.
Yeah, been using my small butane torch to heat them up. Trying to figure what size impact gun to use. Don't want to snap anything, but not sure my Milwakee 1/4" will provide enough kick. It is rated in inch pounds, which converts to 166 ft lbs max. I have a 1/2" electric impact gun, but it's almost too large to be able to work in there. Going to pick up some wobble extentions for the impact, and a 12MM 12 point impact socket and give it another attempt tomorrow.
rich grsc
03-03-2023, 09:52 PM
Use a wrench & a hammer
Other than an impact wrench, that's the only thing I didn't try today. I'll give that a go first, and my fall back position will be the impact wrench. I've got quite a collection of 3 and 5 lb. mauls left over from my business days. I guess I'll see if I can either break a wrench, or smack myself in the face swinging the maul in tight quarters.
svassh
03-04-2023, 12:12 AM
Not sure how you have the car elevated but if you put jackstands under the frame and leave the rear hanging it will angle the drive shaft and give you clearance for a socket and extension with the impact. You may have to put a floor jack under the rear-end and raise it to spin the driveshaft to get access to all the bolts.
weendoggy
03-04-2023, 08:38 AM
As I already mentioned, I use a 3/8" drive 12mm impact socket with a short extension and long handle ratchet. Getting the shaft to "open up" the bolt head as svassh mentioned is key. You will most likely get one at a time, so rotating is a must. Using a universal joint is asking for trouble as you've found out. Get a straight shot at the bolt, apply heat to the flange, apply elbow grease to loosen. If that is a bugger, soak it a bit with penetrant, let it sit and repeat the process. I've never seen one I couldn't get out. If you keep mushing at it and ruin the hex head, ooopppsss!
rich grsc
03-04-2023, 09:32 AM
Heat the bolt, it's smaller than the flange. You're trying to loosen the Loctite
Svassh, with the IRS the driveshaft angle does not change with axle droop. I know that I may need to put it onto jack stands to rotate the driveshaft. Glen, I've been very careful to make sure that I have full engagement on the 12 point. I've tried the double wrench method with all my weight hanging onto the end, and it hasn't budged. Rich, I'll try that. I've been trying to avoid giving myself a brand in the process.
I guess the only thing left to try is more heat, possibly some penetrating oil, although aren't they a bit flammable, and a BFH to beat on the wrench. Man, I really didn't think that this was going to be this difficult!
Thanks guys.
OK, so the weather finally cooperated, and I was able to get back out to try and move ahead. I had purchased an impact tool with a 12mm socket that's designed for Ford drivelines. Couldn't use my impact wrench because it's just too big, but I was able to get the socket soildly on the bolts, and with heat and a pipe cheater on the ratchet I was able to generate enough pull to get them to release. Amazing thing is that I didn't have to rotate the driveline. I was able to access from one position. Victory!!
Now comes my next challenge. I swear I'm not sure that I actually put this car together. So, trying to disconnect the clutch cable. Have a firewall adjuster, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to use it to release the tension on the cable.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52745808156_cbf9f53811_z.jpg (https://www.flickr.com/gp/156322842@N02/j91eFxnq1K)20230313_151152 (https://www.flickr.com/gp/156322842@N02/j91eFxnq1K) by Rick Paul (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156322842@N02/), on Flickr
Once I figure out how to release the cable, I can finish unbolting the trans and try to get it to come out. Every video, and comment has been that the bellhousing will have to come down as well. Now for the really stupid question, does the starter motor need to be removed to drop the bellhousing? I was good putting it together, but now between a failing memory and severe lack of experience, I'm struggling.
If anyone can address my stupid questions, I'd really appreciate it. I just want to get this done.
Really need some help guys. I've tried googling the clutch adjuster, but can't find the info I need to get the cable tension to release, and I don't want to "F" this up! Thanks
weendoggy
03-14-2023, 01:33 PM
Really need some help guys. I've tried googling the clutch adjuster, but can't find the info I need to get the cable tension to release, and I don't want to "F" this up! Thanks
If that cable adjuster is THAT TIGHT, you don't have any way to release the tension other than from under the dash and take the quadrant off the shaft. That part isn't hard, BUT, before you start, did you put a cable on that also has a threaded adjustment at the bell housing side? If so, just take the nut off the cable end and then remove it from the arm.
If you don't have that type, you need to get under the dash by the throttle pedal and remove the quadrant. Just remove the "cotter pin" or clip-pin from the end of the shaft, take the washer (if there) off and pull the quadrant off the shaft. It'll have the cable attached, but you should be able to manuever it enough to either get it off or remove the cable. yes, it's a tight fit under there, but very doable.
OH, when you put it back together you should allow yourself about 1/4" or more freeplay from the firewall on that adjuster.
Hey Glen, thanks for the response. I don't believe there is any adjustment at the bellhousing end. I don't know why the adjuster ended up that tight. I ended up putting an extender at the bellhousing end that I got from Mike Forte to take up excess cable. That may have been where I went wrong. I'm realizing that I probably should have taken that excess cable up using the firewall adjuster. The clutch worked so well that up till now I never worried about it. I installed an aftermarket clutch quadrant when I installed the adjuster. Just a thought, if I could lift the clutch pedal up so that the quadrant moves closer to the firewall, could I unhook the cable from the quadrant and release it that way? By the way, I can access the footbox area from the access cover on top of the DS footbox.
Just read through this thread, hoping for a happy ending! Keep at it. Its been over ten years since I built my car, I am sure I wont remember doing a lot things if I need to go back in.
Thanks emac! That's exactly where I'm at. Between not remembering, and having done some things incorrectly that ultimately worked, (firewall clutch adjuster being one of them), I'm really struggling. Haven't removed a transmission from a car since the late 60's, and this one is way more difficult. I'm not in a huge hurry right now, although I'd like to finish this up, since we're having one of the worst winters we've had in quite awhile here in California. It's just stupid stuff that keeps stumping me. I plan on taking some really good notes on how things install and remove, and how to adjust others.
weendoggy
03-14-2023, 04:01 PM
Just a thought, if I could lift the clutch pedal up so that the quadrant moves closer to the firewall, could I unhook the cable from the quadrant and release it that way? By the way, I can access the footbox area from the access cover on top of the DS footbox.
Yes. Access panel off, hand in to release and pull, wha-la! Easy peasy!
Thanks Glen. I'll give that a try. Once I get this disassembled, I'm going to try removing that spacer piece from Fortes and see if that will allow the adjuster to thread out to a proper spacing.
Well, finally success. Removed the adjuster bolt that I had put in to keep the clutch pedal level with the brake pedal, and that gave me enough slack to remove the cable from the clutch fork. Removed the spacer that I had gotten from Fortes and was able to open the adjuster at the firewall so that I'll be able to loosen or tighten the cable in the future. I think I may cut the Fortes spacer down so that I don't have to thread the firewall adjuster out too far.
Since the top two bolts on the transmission were already removed and replaced with dowels, I got the trans jack in place and removed the other two bolts. Rolled the jack back and the trans slid out with no effort. I was able to get the pilot shaft back far enough to clear the bell housing, but that's where I got stopped. Need to get the transmission slid back over the cross tube a bit further and then try to hold it there while the jack gets lowered, and the trans will need to be maneuvered down in the front and solidly back onto the jack to continue bringing it down. I'm going to have to get more hands!
This has been one of those projects that sounds reasonably simple, but then all the things that I didn't do exactly correctly cause another issue, and so on.... One thing's a certainty, if and when I get this back together, I should have a number of things fixed for down the road. Of course, I hope I never have to do this again!
Anyhow, I want to thank everyone that has responded with ideas without flaming me too bad for my lack of knowledge, or my complaining! I'm sure I'm still going to have a number of more questions before I get this back on the road. Thanks again.
Well Dave53 came over this morning to help me try to get the transmission out. Everything was disconnected so we were just trying to maneuver it so that we could get it out without removing the bellhousing, and go figure, we were successful! One guy in the drivers seat supporting the tailshaft as high as it would go, and the other under the car operating the trans jack. Ended up taking us about 20-30 minutes once we had a plan. I was surprised by how much the pilot shaft cleared the bellhousing. Wasn't an issue at all. Now to tear this thing down to find out what became of 5th gear, and then reverse the whole process while doing the upgrades like the E-Stopp. Thanks again for all the help, and especially to Dave.
BEAR-AvHistory
03-16-2023, 07:57 PM
I can't remember but it might be a good plan for someone to post how to use the firewall adjuster
Well, I figured that I better close out this thread with a wrap up of how things went back together. When I pulled the tail shaft off of the transmission the exact thing that I was told had probably happened, had happened. The 5th gear snap ring had been overstretched and was sitting loose back by the speedometer gear. The 5th gear driven, on the main shaft, had slid back far enough to not be in line with the gear that drives it. I was glad that none of that did any damage to the internals. I took a drift punch and slowly and carefully drove the 5th gear back into place so that the snap ring groove was exposed again. Took extreme care not to over stretch the new snap ring and put the tail shaft back on. Took all of about 2 hours including breakdown and reassembly. Now on to the E-Stopp electric e-brake. Found that the location that I believe it was John had tried worked the best for me. I knew it would eliminate the cup holder for the PS, but I had no other choice without a whole lot more work which I was not interested in. Moved my seat heater and footbox vent fan switches to the angled piece just behind the tunnel cover. That worked great since they won't have to be disconnected when the tunnel cover is removed. Then since I eliminated the need for an e-brake handle, I had to make a new tunnel cover. The old one did not fit over the carpet on the sides of the tunnel very well, so I made this one about 1/2" wider, and it worked perfectly. Looks amazingly plain without the switches and the e-brake handle and the PS cup holder. Anyhow, hooked the battery back up and tested the E-Stopp and go figure, it actually works! Once I had the car off of the cribs, I tested it out in my driveway. It has a decent slope, and before the car wouldn't stay with just the e-brake handle pulled up as hard as I could. This time, with the car still running, I put it in neutral and set the brake. Couldn't even get the car to move pushing as hard as I could, sucess! Took it to a C&C in Danville this morning and decided that I needed to take it on the freeway to test out 5th gear. Took it through the gears, put it in 5th and thank God it works!
I want to thank everyone who helped out with suggestions in the thread, and those who PM'ed me with answers and support. I'd especially like to thank Dave for coming over to help get the trans out, and also being willing to come back to help get it back in! As so many have said, if not for this forum I know that this would not have gone well, so Thanks!