Blueprint 347 oil pan below frame rail

[BDHoneyman]

I have a Blueprint 347 mated to a TKX transmission mounted with the Energy Suspension engine and transmission mounts. I have a 3/4" spacer between the energy Suspension transmission mount and the transmission so that the transmission will clear the cross member. In this configuration, the Canton oil pan that came on the engine is about 1/4" below the frame rail at the front of the oil pan. The Blueprint 347 is a common engine for the Mk IV but on a forum search I didn't find another build with this issue. Any Blueprint 347 users with this issue? When this problem has arisen with builds that I found, suggestions are to replace the oil pan or put a spacer in the engine mount. How serious is the 1/4" issue?

Thanks,
-Bruce

[egchewy79]

Most would get a new pan. You could also build a skid plate. 4” ride height is pretty low and any road debris can significantly ruin your day in a hurry

[BDHoneyman]

A skid plate is an interesting idea.
I'll think about that a bit!
Thanks,
-Bruce

[Norm B]

You could try supporting the engine with a floor jack under the oil pan (put a piece of wood between the jack and the pan to spread the load). Loosen all the motor mount bolts on the block and frame. Use the jack to lift the engine 1/2 inch then re-torque the motor mount bolts. Release the jack and see if things improved.

Norm

[Daddy O]

Hi Bruce,

I also have a BP 347/TKX with 1" of transmission spacers and it hangs below about 1/4". Curious about this as well as it does make me a bit nervous. Have not go-carted yet, just had first start couple weeks ago. Would think this being a pretty common combo there would not be this issue.

[Papa]

My BPE 347 with the pan they shipped on the engine is right at the level of the frame rails at the rear and about 1/4" higher at the front. Could it be a difference in motor mounts provided? Is this one of BPE's new blocks that they are producing? Is this something some spacers could fix?

[BDHoneyman]

Thank you all for your comments!
I got my BPE about a year ago (have been slow getting it in). Maybe Daddy O and I have similar small changes in the block relative to Papa's. I did get my engine mounts in 2017 so they may be different from Papa's (did F5 ship Energy Suspension then?) as perhaps are Daddy O's. I may try Norm B's idea of raising the engine a bit and retorquing the bolts but I'm hesitant to remove the engine block bolts completely from the frame mounts as it was a real chore to get them seated. I've been thinking more, too, about a skid plate. The oil pan sticking down a bit does make it vulnerable to speed bumps but even if slightly above the frame rails the oil pan is vulnerable to road debris.

One thing is for sure: I started the project to learn about cars and wow have I gotten an education!

-Bruce

-Bruce

[Papa]

Thank you all for your comments!
I got my BPE about a year ago (have been slow getting it in). Maybe Daddy O and I have similar small changes in the block relative to Papa's. I did get my engine mounts in 2017 so they may be different from Papa's (did F5 ship Energy Suspension then?) as perhaps are Daddy O's. I may try Norm B's idea of raising the engine a bit and retorquing the bolts but I'm hesitant to remove the engine block bolts completely from the frame mounts as it was a real chore to get them seated. I've been thinking more, too, about a skid plate. The oil pan sticking down a bit does make it vulnerable to speed bumps but even if slightly above the frame rails the oil pan is vulnerable to road debris.

One thing is for sure: I started the project to learn about cars and wow have I gotten an education!

-Bruce

-Bruce

The statement in red makes me question the mounts as they should have simply bolted right to the block with no resistance or difficulty at all. There are some issues with Dart bosses that I've read of, but a standard 302 block should be very straight forward. The mounts dropped right onto the frame with no issue at all. You may have to rock the engine a bit to get the alignment pins to fall in place. You can see the right-side mount in this picture on my engine:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84624&d=1524424154

[egchewy79]

Measure your pan. Shouldn’t be more than 7.5” deep for a stock SBF.

[Daddy O]

Just measured it and its 8" tall. If 7.5 is the limit, this would explain it.

[Dave Tabor]

I've holed two pans that were ~0.5" below the frame.

I'm in for $1k on pans now.

Using this now but I'm running a 302, not a stroker:

Champ CP302LT-RR

Dave
Gen III Coupe #17
15,550 miles

[Daddy O]

To see what I could do, I did loosen the engine mount bolts (mount to engine and mount to frame) and lifted the engine. Retightened and got it to sit a bit higher but the pan is still 1/8" low on pass side and 1/4" low on drivers. I have the reman 302 block 347 with the Energy Suspension mounts, its about 1 year old. No problems with the mount bolt pattern, fit together fine. Out of curiosity, I took a look at Cantons website. All the front T sump 289-302 pans I can find are 8" tall. The rear sump ones seem to be 7.5" Papa, would you mind measuring the height of your pan? Wondering if there has been a design change.

Thanks!

[Papa]

To see what I could do, I did loosen the engine mount bolts (mount to engine and mount to frame) and lifted the engine. Retightened and got it to sit a bit higher but the pan is still 1/8" low on pass side and 1/4" low on drivers. I have the reman 302 block 347 with the Energy Suspension mounts, its about 1 year old. No problems with the mount bolt pattern, fit together fine. Out of curiosity, I took a look at Cantons website. All the front T sump 289-302 pans I can find are 8" tall. The rear sump ones seem to be 7.5" Papa, would you mind measuring the height of your pan? Wondering if there has been a design change.

Thanks!

I just got a rough measurement on mine and it's 8". Mind you that's laying on the floor with a flashlight in one hand and using the other to push the tape up to the edge of the pan while then pinching the tape at the bottom of the pan to get a reading; there is certainly room for some error there. :p

[rich grsc]

Look at Kevco oil pans

[egchewy79]

Look at Kevco oil pans

+1 on this. much more affordable. will require a rear sump set up, so you'll need a new pick up tube and a main cap stud support.

[BDHoneyman]

I just checked the pan depth on mine: 8". Papa-- thanks for the effort to check yours. I also looked at the seating of my engine and mounts. Both sides are squarely in the mounts and symmetrical side-to-side. The alignment pins are fully in the slots. When I was putting the engine in the alignment pin on the DS was maybe 1/8" from dropping into the slot and it took a fair amount of encouragement to get the engine to rotate that little bit to seat. But, once the pins were in, the seating seemed to be fine and the engine settled into place. The engine/transmission are also perfectly aligned left-to-right such that the transmission lines up squarely with the A-frame mounting holes. It seems that Daddy O and I are in the same pickle-- the pan is just too deep.

[Jeff Kleiner]

C'mon guys. This one is an easy peasy...and much cheaper than an oil pan...add 1/4" worth of spacers between the engine mounts and block. The engine will move straight up. Check the thread depth and change mount to block bolts if necessary. If you haven't already set the pinion angle you may need to add the same to the trans mount to get it into range.

Jeff

[Papa]

My BPE 347 with the pan they shipped on the engine is right at the level of the frame rails at the rear and about 1/4" higher at the front. Could it be a difference in motor mounts provided? Is this one of BPE's new blocks that they are producing? Is this something some spacers could fix?


C'mon guys. This one is an easy peasy...and much cheaper than an oil pan...add 1/4" worth of spacers between the engine mounts and block. The engine will move straight up. Check the thread depth and change mount to block bolts if necessary. If you haven't already set the pinion angle you may need to add the same to the trans mount to get it into range.

Jeff

;) Me thinks we have a solution!

[BDHoneyman]

Thanks, Jeff, Papa and the rest for your responses! Occam's Razor strikes again. I'll reassemble my engine install buddies and the appropriate amount of beer. Fortunately, I haven't set the pinion angle yet.
-Bruce

[Jeff Kleiner]

... I'll reassemble my engine install buddies and the appropriate amount of beer.

Bruce,
Understand that the engine doesn't need to come out again. Raising it an inch or so will give you room, and in fact you can even just raise one side at a time then once the shims are installed let that side down and roll it the other direction to do the opposite side. Don't let that stop you from gathering your guys and beer though ;)

Jeff

[Daddy O]

Any reasons why a few stacked grade 8 washers would be a bad idea?

[BDHoneyman]

Thanks, Jeff. Thinking about this now I'm much relieved!

[rich grsc]

Any reasons why a few stacked grade 8 washers would be a bad idea?
They don't need to be grade 8, any washer the correct size for the bolt is fine. The engine only weighs about 400#

[Daddy O]

Thanks for all the input guys. I was able to get some thick 7/16 washers from Ace and put them between the mount and block. Added enough to bring the pan up above the rail bottoms and used longer bolts.

[Avalanche325]

I've holed two pans that were ~0.5" below the frame.

You're supposed to slow down for railroad tracks......not speed up.

[Goose]

How low is too low? I just saw this post and recently installed my 347 from blueprint and thought the oil pan was a bit low... I just went out and measured mine with a level and it is exactly level with the bottom of the frame at it's lowest point. I don't plan on flooring it over RR tracks ^ (haha) but should this be a concern and should I also raise mine?

[Dave Tabor]

You're supposed to slow down for railroad tracks......not speed up.

due to bottoming out under compression at the race track...