Fastener Pack

[Daral]

Every time I try to start working on my roadster it seems I am missing a bolt or nut. I am just getting started on the front upper and lower control arms. Should the hardware for attaching them to the frame be with the arms or are these bolts and nuts in the Fastener Pack. Regardless of the answer, I don't seem to have what I need. The Fastener pack has 1/2-20X1-3/4 bolts which is the right size for attaching the upper control arms but the thread size may be wrong because that Pack only has 1/2-13 locknuts.

The bolts for attaching the lower control arms were with the control arms, but the locknuts are on my backorder list. Bolts and nuts for the upper control arms are not on my backorder list so I should have them; but where?

[Mike.Bray]

I noticed with my kit FFR did a very poor job with fasteners. Quite a few were outright missing, half my POL list was fasteners, a number were not in the box the inventory said they were, and a lot were packed but not labeled. I'm now on a first name basis with everyone at Ace Hardware.

Hopefully the new system works out better.

[Alec]

I exchanged some emails with FFR about a week ago about my backordered IRS fastener pack. They said there was an issue with a vendor and they were working through it. Maybe other suspension hardware is part of the same problem. Hopefully gets resolved soon and I can get my rear suspension mounted.

[txboiler]

McMaster Carr and Ace hardware are good solutions if you know the size you need

[CraigS]

I am a huge McM supporter and like Ace as well. But it is a shame to have spend one's $s to buy from them only to have a bag of bolts show up in the future which will never be used by most builders.

[CaptB]

During my build I had to buy several fastners. Part of the game for now.

[Alec]

I priced out the bolts I needed for the 6 control arms in the irs kit and it was over $100 including shipping from mcm Carr. Nope, I can wait. But yeah, when it's just a few items I run to ace and they seem to have everything.

[bjblock]

I also couldn't find the right bolts for the upper control arms for my coupe - I think they should be the same as the roadster. Sent an e-mail to FFR and they said: "PN 10842 and 15138 are the 2 bolts needed (2 each) to bolt the upper control arms to the chassis".

Those part numbers are nowhere to be found in my inventory list or POL...

[Daral]

Sounds like I am not alone. After doing more digging through boxes, I learned that item #15344 should have the fasteners for the front suspension. All I had in #15344 were the spacers for the shocks, but the item was marked complete and was not on my backorder list. Hardware stores are an option but in some cases the build manual doesn't give a full description of the bolt sizes. I am willing to wait as long as FFR knows I need them. I am compiling a list of items that I need but are not on my backorder list.

[JohnK]

Did you do a complete inventory of your kit when you received it? The parts list that you got with the kit should list every item in every box, down to the last bolt and nut. I went through every single bag and counted every single fastener. I found several fasteners missing, and FFR was good about getting me replacements in a timely manner. Finding out that you're missing parts when you get to that step in the build is a PITA, which is why a thorough inventory when you first receive the kit is so critical.

[bjblock]

Did you do a complete inventory of your kit when you received it? The parts list that you got with the kit should list every item in every box, down to the last bolt and nut. I went through every single bag and counted every single fastener. I found several fasteners missing, and FFR was good about getting me replacements in a timely manner. Finding out that you're missing parts when you get to that step in the build is a PITA, which is why a thorough inventory when you first receive the kit is so critical.

The new inventory system doesn't seem as thorough. For example, I just received the "Coupe Fastener Pack" for my coupe which was on the POL. P/N 60859, a single line item on the inventory for Box 01 (not a section header with individual items below it - just one line item). Inside the box were 65 (!) bags of various nuts, bolts, and washers. Each bag has P/N 60859 listed on it along with the size/quantity, but there's no indication of what any of these fasteners are meant to be used for. Most of it can be pieced together from the manual, but the descriptions in the Coupe manual don't always include the fastener sizes.

I did a very thorough inventory when I got my kit, checked every item off the list when I confirmed it was in the box and added them to a spreadsheet so I could search through it easily. There are a few components I've come across that are needed in the build and called out in the manual, but are not listed anywhere in the inventory. I assume this is due to some hiccups with the new system, but I'm sure there are other parts like this that I'm missing but have no way of knowing until I get to that step in the build. The control arm mounting bolts I mentioned above are just one example - I knew I didn't have these, but since they weren't on the inventory I assumed (incorrectly) that they would be in the fastener pack. I'm sure FFR will get it fixed, but I haven't gotten any confirmation that this is a known issue, nor have I received any of the missing parts despite notifying FFR about some of these when I got my kit 7 weeks ago.

[haak60]

I did not get upper control arms or ball joints, hardware. There is suppose to be an ifs component list on inventory somewhere, which lists upper control arms, ball joints, hardware for upper control arms. It was nowhere to be found on my inventory. Emailed ff5 got it straightened out. Now I have 4 upper control arms with the rest of the stuff, go figure.

[Alec]

Did you do a complete inventory of your kit when you received it? The parts list that you got with the kit should list every item in every box, down to the last bolt and nut. I went through every single bag and counted every single fastener. I found several fasteners missing, and FFR was good about getting me replacements in a timely manner. Finding out that you're missing parts when you get to that step in the build is a PITA, which is why a thorough inventory when you first receive the kit is so critical.

THis definitely is no longer the case. 2 examples (one of them cited also below by bjblock): "Roadster fastener pack", a single line-item and product # on the inventory sheet. Literally 100's of fasteners of all shapes and sizes. Not itemized anywhere. Also, "IRS fastener pack". Again a single line-item. No way to know, if you happen to have that included in your delivery, whether you were actually shipped everything that is supposed to be in there since there is no itemized list provided. Also, if it is NOT included in your delivery (its on the POL), then you don't know what you are missing and where you will be tripped-up in the build. No where in the manual does it say WHERE the fasteners they are calling for are located (what box, what pack etc). So you reach a step, search and search for the part, find a vague entry on your inventory and POL, and then ask on the message boards if those Rear LCA bolts and nuts are in the 'IRS fastener pack' and therefore can I stop searching and move on to something else. So far I love this build process, I'm no malcontent, but some aspects of it are much harder than they need to be due to lack of information and transparency.

[JohnK]

Wow - that's disappointing to hear. That parts list has been an invaluable resource throughout my build. Not having a full Bill of Materials (BOM) sounds like a huge step backwards with their new ERP system. Hopefully something they will sort out as they go. I would definitely ask if they can send you a full BOM. Any decent ERP system should be able to generate one for a customer's order.

[Mike.Bray]

Most of it can be pieced together from the manual, but the descriptions in the Coupe manual don't always include the fastener sizes.

The roadster manual is the same and I found this very annoying. A lot of times the manual tells me which wrench I need but not which nut or bolt. Most builders, myself included, when confronted with missing hardware won't let it slow them down but will simply source it from other places. If it is known what to source....

I have written technical manuals and from experience it isn't easy. The FFR manual isn't bad at all. I really think if someone were to focus on it armed with good BOMs they could complete the missing items to each step in a few days and make assembling the car so much easier.

[Daral]

This is exactly what I experienced. The Fastener pack I got for my roadster is PN 17155. Inside that box were about 30 bags all with the same PN 17155 number. There isn't any description of where these fasteners will be used. Most describe the size of the bolt or nut so I may be able to figure it out but like bjblock said, the manual doesn't always give the size of the fastener needed.

[Daral]

Did you do a complete inventory of your kit when you received it? The parts list that you got with the kit should list every item in every box, down to the last bolt and nut. I went through every single bag and counted every single fastener. I found several fasteners missing, and FFR was good about getting me replacements in a timely manner. Finding out that you're missing parts when you get to that step in the build is a PITA, which is why a thorough inventory when you first receive the kit is so critical.

Yes, I did a complete inventory of everything. The fastener box was impossible to inventory because every bag had the same part number. There was a bag with fasteners I need for the upper and lower front control arms but it was incomplete. The missing bolts and nuts were not on my backorder list so I contacted FFR about getting those. The response I got was to keep looking, they must be there somewhere. I did a second complete inventory and confirmed that I don't have those parts.

[Daral]

Just to wrap this up. I got an itemized list of all the fasteners in the PN 17155 box from Dan at FFR. That list was very helpful and enabled me to inventory all the nuts, screws and bolts in that box. I now know which fasteners have been delivered and which are still on backorder. Thanks Dan.

[DesertSn8ke]

This is good info. I am currently going through my coupe inventory step. Already received a "coupe fastener pack" that was on the POL. But yeah..... just a big box of hardware. No way to actually double check it. I'll have to shoot FFR an email and get the itemized list.

[zee]

FFR needs to hire someone from Ikea to learn how to create easy to install packages. And/or someone from Amazon to learn how to fulfill orders.

I gave up trying to inventory fasteners, nuts and bolts because there was just so much inconsistency. It doesn't need to be this bad. We really shouldn't get a ziplock bag with a bunch of stuff that we're then left trying to match against the list to see which ones we have and which ones we don't.

[Shakey]

Any advice on how I am supposed to know what bolt goes where? If I want to buy a bolt to mount the shocks, for example, how will I know what size, grade and thread count I should use? It is not listed in the manual and I would prefer not to bug FFR about it because of how busy they are. I suppose I could just guess on thread count, go conservative on the grade and then just measure for bolt size.

Thanks,

Shakey

[AA-ron]

I'm about 2 months into my build and was missing the exact same 1/2-20x1-3/4 bolts for the upper control arms. They ended up randomly showing up via fedex a few days after I sourced them locally. Yes the hardware has been a battle. Luckily, I enjoy going to my local supplier, Fastener Warehouse. If your ever in the Portsmouth NH area, its worth a visit just to see what 25,000 square feet of just nuts and bolts looks like-- kind of like heaven for those interested in such things. :)
Aside from that, a few additional notes in the owners manual would go a long way. It would be nice if they always called out the size of the hardware in the manual and not just say "install bolt". I used to write installation manuals at my previous job and I know they are difficult to do, especially when it's as complicated as the assembly of a car. However with that said, a bit more effort in the manual would have saved me hours and hours to date. I'm not really complaining, because I somewhat expected it and I'm enjoying the journey, but last night at midnight I had a slightly different perspective while I was up to my elbows in ziploc bags looking for a washer that didn't exist.
Enjoy the journey! I finished my brakes this morning and I feel like superman.

[Tooth]

Ok, now I need to go to Portsmouth. I'm also glad I'm not the only one with the same hardware issues. I've been waiting for the deformed thread nuts for the suspension, and think it's time to just source them. So far, that's the only thing I haven't been able to just pick up at the local hardware store.

[DrewS]

Just to wrap this up. I got an itemized list of all the fasteners in the PN 17155 box from Dan at FFR. That list was very helpful and enabled me to inventory all the nuts, screws and bolts in that box. I now know which fasteners have been delivered and which are still on backorder. Thanks Dan.

Can you share that itemized list you got from FFR, it sounds like all of us future builders are going to need it as a reference.

[MB750]

Can you share that itemized list you got from FFR, it sounds like all of us future builders are going to need it as a reference.

Yes, please share it. My Roadster should be here in a few weeks and reading this thread makes me cringe.

[k-roy]

Just FYI, I am using an older PDF manual and using the current book. The new book will list the size of the bolts--sometimes--whereas the PDF doesn't. We just have a box of "fasteners". My father spent the time to index it into an Excel sheet, labeled each bag (and included our bag number on the Excel sheet), split the bags into bolts, washers and nuts. Helped a tremendous amount. But (always a But). The IRS fasteners were just labeled as IRS fasteners and were told were the "longer ones" went. EdwardB pointed out that I had used SAE to hold the differential in, and they are metric. Luckily the bolts are only hand tight (just to hold it in place) and am hopeful I didn't damage any of the threads. A list of all the "fasteners" would have been helpful. All and all I can't complain too much as it hasn't slowed me down. The dreaded POL has been the bigger issue.

[Daral]

Here you go.174825

[racingandfishing]

It would seem to me that they should farm out the fastener kits and provide something like this that comes with even $25 wall mounts for TV's. Even if it were to cost a little more, I'd pay the difference. Though I would think their labor to pack the fastener kit and then the shipping costs to ship missing fasteners would likely offset it. This could go a long way to solving a lot of angst for their customers.

174833

[danmas]

Actually this part of the build is pretty discouraging to read about. The parts that are missing, back ordered or hard to find seems like something that should be resolved before shipping. A clean electronic BOM affiliated with the manual doesn't sound all that complex (I work in tech). I am really looking forward to doing this. I am not excited about guessing about parts and stuff. I would imagine an online interactive bom / build manual with links to youtube that show how to do the thing that the manual is talking about would be awesome. This part doesn't sound like fun.

Lego does a pretty good job: Imperial Star Destroyer (https://www.lego.com/cdn/product-assets/product.bi.core.pdf/6093718.pdf)

[zee]

Lego does a pretty good job: Imperial Star Destroyer (https://www.lego.com/cdn/product-assets/product.bi.core.pdf/6093718.pdf)

So does Ikea.

I think it'd make FFR's life easier too because it'd reduce a lot of back n forth. I'd have expected parts to be labeled so you wouldn't have to guess what you were looking at when trying to do inventory :).

[narly1]

Y'all are obviously all too young to know and appreciate the beauty of a Heathkit assembly manual.

Earl

[F500guy]

Y'all are obviously all too young to know and appreciate the beauty of a Heathkit assembly manual.

Earl

My first Digital Multi-meter was a heath kit. It was robust and lasted 20 years after I put it together. They had some cool stuff back in the day.

[danmas]

Did them with my dad. He was smarter than I am....

[Nigel Allen]

Actually this part of the build is pretty discouraging to read about. The parts that are missing, back ordered or hard to find seems like something that should be resolved before shipping. A clean electronic BOM affiliated with the manual doesn't sound all that complex (I work in tech). I am really looking forward to doing this. I am not excited about guessing about parts and stuff. I would imagine an online interactive bom / build manual with links to youtube that show how to do the thing that the manual is talking about would be awesome. This part doesn't sound like fun.

Lego does a pretty good job: Imperial Star Destroyer (https://www.lego.com/cdn/product-assets/product.bi.core.pdf/6093718.pdf)


1. Lego and Ikea operations have a high level of vertical integration
2. Lego and Ikea operations have a high level of automation.
3. Lego offers no options. Ikea has few ad-ons and maybe a colour choice.
4. Assembling Lego or Ikea furniture does not have the level of satisfaction of building your own car.
5. If the build was as regimented as assembling Lego or Ikea furniture, most peoples creative minds would say f*** it.

I waited 12 months for a RHD steering shaft. If I had waited that period for an 'order complete' delivery, I would have been seriously bored. That was in 2011. So there have always been supply issues. I don't have FFR's logo tattoed on my arm, but I will say that they have a sterling reputation on this forum for ensuring people get what they should. Now if only they would tidy up their build manual...

FWIW, I think it is important to maintain another past-time of equal interest as building one of these cars. You need something to fall back on when there are delays or the build gets frustrating etc. It will certainly help relieve disappointment.

FFR are actively making improvements, so I really hope your POL issues might be low by the time you receive your kit.

All the best with your build.

Regards,

Nigel

[narly1]

Y'all are obviously all too young to know and appreciate the beauty of a Heathkit assembly manual.

Earl

I should have added an LOL at the end of my above comment, it was my poor attempt at humour regarding the level of detail in assembly manuals.

The way I see it with these cars is that they are truly one-offs. As soon as one starts mixing and matching pieces together one quickly realizes that not all parts play well together.

To me the biggest joy of FFR kits is the satisfaction of thinking and creating through the build challenges to end up with something you're happy with and proud of.

Earl

[racingandfishing]

Like I posted previously, using a third party to provide the fasteners would likely improve customer satisfaction.

https://www.fastenersolutions.com/resources/kitting

Even if the kit had more fasteners than needed for a particular build, it might improve upon their cost basis due to not having the labor and cost to reship items. If not, build it into the cost of the kit.

As far as not being Lego or Ikea kits, there are not that many differences in the kits with the biggest of those being the rear suspension, steering and sway bar options. There could be a base set of fasteners which is likely 80-90% of all builds and then additional sets of fasteners based on the options chosen.

Folks shouldn't have to go to the hardware store to get items that should have been included to begin with or face long delays in assembly.

[Namrups]

Y'all are obviously all too young to know and appreciate the beauty of a Heathkit assembly manual.

Earl

Your showing your age Earl! I built their short wave radio as a kid.

[danmas]

1. Lego and Ikea operations have a high level of vertical integration
2. Lego and Ikea operations have a high level of automation.
3. Lego offers no options. Ikea has few ad-ons and maybe a colour choice.
4. Assembling Lego or Ikea furniture does not have the level of satisfaction of building your own car.
5. If the build was as regimented as assembling Lego or Ikea furniture, most peoples creative minds would say f*** it.

I waited 12 months for a RHD steering shaft. If I had waited that period for an 'order complete' delivery, I would have been seriously bored. That was in 2011. So there have always been supply issues. I don't have FFR's logo tattoed on my arm, but I will say that they have a sterling reputation on this forum for ensuring people get what they should. Now if only they would tidy up their build manual...

FWIW, I think it is important to maintain another past-time of equal interest as building one of these cars. You need something to fall back on when there are delays or the build gets frustrating etc. It will certainly help relieve disappointment.

FFR are actively making improvements, so I really hope your POL issues might be low by the time you receive your kit.

All the best with your build.

Regards,

Nigel

G'Morning,

Just to be clear, not taking a shot at FFR. I think they have an awesome experience and I am a brand spanking newbie here. The only thing I have built so far is a spreadsheet. Not trying to slam them.

That being said, Lego has a huge amount of variation. The variation is at the factory level. FFR invites the customer into their variation and as such that means that there is a certain amount of noise. However. Factory Five does sell a complete kit for the roadster. That seems like something that can be relatively tightly scripted. I would imagine each sub-assembly has a BOM and that BOM has a pick list. And so on.

All that being said, I wouldn't take anything off the table with respect to the satisfaction of problem solving and building it. I don't think it is a lego kit per se, but, for those of us that are new to this and want to become part of a larger maker community, a well organized parts inventory and pretty clear "lego like" orientation in terms of instruction and parts would make it a lower barrier to entry. Again, hard to criticize the best kit car in the industry, especially when I haven't even received my kit yet. I do see enough of this commentary that it concerns me a bit.

Best,
Dan

[Namrups]

I am a first time builder. I purchased the Daytona Coupe complete kit. I also upgraded/customized it. IMO you need to have problem solving skills to some degree to build one of these. They are not a leggo kit nor is the manual a leggo manual. Because each builder builds to his own vision it would be impossible for FF to get to the "leggo standard". Having said that there is room for improvement.

I received my kit before the changeover in software programs at FF. My inventory list is very explanatory when it comes to nuts and bolts. It gives an assembly number and a list of what is in that assembly describing the size/thread count of each and every bolt, nut and washer and the box it can be found in. During initial inventory you find the bag that matches the assembly number and match the nuts and bolts to the list. Without this in-depth listing of what you have and where it's used I would have found the build very difficult.

For anyone out there who is struggling with this, PM me and maybe I can help to cross reference my list with what your looking for. Again, I have the coupe with IRS.

Scott

[Theshandman]

Your showing your age Earl! I built their short wave radio as a kid.
Ha! As did I and their CB walkie talkie set (channel 9 �� as I recall) in '64. Or was it the precursor to Radio Shack? Then years later, a 2 channel 400W amp for my band's PA.

[edwardb]

Several Heathkits in my past as well. Trying to remember -- A stereo amplifier (or was it a receiver?), a voltmeter, a full mini-stereo with a turntable and tambour top, couple of their R/C products, which I was into back then, but never did a complete system, even a metronome. Always enjoyed doing them and they always worked. Was enough of a fan I visited their showroom in Saint Joseph, Michigan. Drooled over a bunch of stuff but didn't have the $$ to do much. Times and the electronic industry changed. But still good memories.

To the OP (and others I guess...): 1. Factory Five does already use a third party for some of their hardware packs. Obvious when you do the inventory. Ones I specifically remember are the e-brake handle, seat belt hardware, seat mount hardware, probably more I'm not remembering. Could they do more? Maybe. But with the level of customization with kit options, maybe not practical. 2. I haven't done any kits since their software changeover. Before the inventory list of what was in every box (Scott, Namrups mentioned) was my bible for where to find things, the exact description including sizes, etc. As has already been mentioned, the manual often doesn't give the exact size of bolts, hardware, etc. and the inventory list got you to just the right ones. Hopefully that hasn't changed. 3. Yes, you may choose to replace certain pieces of provided hardware (I do) based on preference, whatever, but the kit does include everything required to build as the manual describes. POL items are one thing, I understand. But "running to the hardware store to build the kit" isn't accurate in my experience. 4. Critical thinking, problem solving, organization, are all part of building one of these. If you think it's like Lego or IKEA you will be frustrated and probably disappointed. Aside from the fact that those are massively larger companies with huge volumes and resources. 5. I highly recommend taking comments in threads like these as opinions and observations but don't assume will be your experience. Especially if you haven't even received your kit yet. As is pointed out repeatedly, negative comments are mostly what gets posted. Positive comments not as much.

[racingandfishing]

I am still waiting on my kit and like others trying to learn all I can in the meantime, so maybe I am speaking out of turn. My thoughts are simply based on what I have read here and in other threads where it seems to indicate that the new way of packing the fasteners is all in one box and all with the same part number on all of the bags. While not having a Lego or Ikea expectation, that sounds very different from previous versions where the fasteners were in the boxes with the associated parts - which folks have said was extremely helpful. On some of the aftermarket parts they source, my experience has been the fasteners are typically included, which would make sense as to why they are packaged differently. But that may or may not be the case here.

I am looking forward to my kit and don't believe I am complaining (but maybe it came across that way?). Just trying to understand what to expect while offering what I thought was constructive feedback.

That said, maybe some one with experience with both the old and the new can elaborate or maybe someone who has received their kit since the system change could post some pics of their fastener kit and the inventory list to add clarity!

[Daral]

Here is what you will get in the Roadster Fastener Pack #17155.174976

The list I provided earlier in this thread lets you know if all the bags are in that box.

[JohnK]

Interesting. To me, it looks like they've sourced that kit as a purchased item from a vendor rather than kitting it in-house. This would possibly explain why the new parts list doesn't show the details of every fastener within P/N 17155. From my experience, when you generate a multi-level Bill of Materials, it will typically stop at the purchased part level. Otherwise you'd get the BOM for every single screw, wire, nut, bracket, etc. within every purchased item in the BOM (e.g., the detailed BOM for the wiper motor, for example). So I'm guessing the new ERP system, combined with perhaps a new sourcing strategy for this P/N, isn't exploding the BOM for the part since it's considered a purchased assembly. Depending on which ERP system FFR has deployed, they may or may not be able to change this on a kit by kit basis.

[JJK]

To add to some of the new inventory challenges, I received my kit two weeks ago and unfortunately have already found some parts that are not listed on the inventory sheet that I am missing. So, I didn't even know they were not in the kit until I tried to find them. Specifically, I am missing the castle nuts for the upper control arm ball joints. I added this to my list of missing parts and FFR is working on getting some sent to me with all the other MIK and POL parts. Hopefully this will be an isolated event, as the unknown unknowns are always the most difficult to deal with.

[edwardb]

To add to some of the new inventory challenges, I received my kit two weeks ago and unfortunately have already found some parts that are not listed on the inventory sheet that I am missing. So, I didn't even know they were not in the kit until I tried to find them. Specifically, I am missing the castle nuts for the upper control arm ball joints. I added this to my list of missing parts and FFR is working on getting some sent to me with all the other MIK and POL parts. Hopefully this will be an isolated event, as the unknown unknowns are always the most difficult to deal with.

Castle nuts (plus the cotter key and zerk fitting) should have been in the box with the ball joint. Not a separate item. Every one I have received was that way.


Here is what you will get in the Roadster Fastener Pack #17155.174976

The list I provided earlier in this thread lets you know if all the bags are in that box.

That's definitely different than before. As long as you have an inventory list and description of what they are, should work. While it's generally true that the previous packing method did have hardware with their general other components, wasn't necessarily always the case. Which made the inventory list important then too. Common theme here? Staying organized is really critical and will keep you sane. :p

[Daral]

My IRS Fastener box is backordered. I asked FFR is they had an inventory list for the fasteners in that box. They don't. Does anyone have a list of what should be in the IRS Fastener box?

[Jeff Kleiner]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174976&d=1668561476

This mass packaging of fasteners is definitely new and not something I've seen with any of the cars I've built. I see that all of the bags have the 17155 group number but then looking further note that each bag is individually labeled with it's contents, for example:

3124CH5
Quantity of 4
5/16-18 x 1 1/2" Hex cap screw GR5 zinc plated

The prior inventory sheets referenced a number for each nut, bolt and washer under the component or assembly. Just pulling up a random example here:

ROLLBAR REAR LEG BOLT ON MOUNT
#10833 bolt, 1/2-13 x 1.25" 3 each
#10976 washer, 1/2" 6 each
#10834 locknut, 1/2" 3 each

Is there no call back or reference on the inventory sheets for the component or assembly that the individual number &/or descriptions on the bags relate to?

Curious about how it's being done.

Jeff

[JJK]

Jeff, from the instructions and parts I recently received, I have no idea when hardware is supposed to be in the same box as the associated parts or included in the big box of random fasteners. This is made more challenging since a lot of the time the specifications for the hardware are not listed in the manual. So, I don't even know what I should be looking for sometimes.

[JJK]

To add on with specific examples, I am told the upper control arm castle nuts should have been included with the ball joint. they were not, but the cotter pins and zerk fittings were. Also, there were no bolts on the coilover box to attach them and the specifications are not detailed in the manual. I emailed FFR and they told me to reference the manual, which is of no help so I will plan to use something from the big box of random fasteners and hope it is right and not stealing from somewhere else.

[flyboyjy]

Um yeah the box of hardware. Kind of have to know what you are looking for and dig in. I found front suspension nuts, bolts and washers in there but other parts of the suspension was spread out over 3 different boxes. So indeed it does take some elbow grease to get in there identify what you need and start looking for the parts. I have also been putting things together that are all spread across multiple boxes into one. So all the lights and electrical system parts are in one box. Fuel system all in it's own. Again this is not a Lego or Ikea kit.

[flyboyjy]

One other thing I ran into is having mystery bolts and spacers. There are 4 metric thread bolts with 12 point 12 MM heads that were with the spindles and steer arms. I thought because of the small head size it was to hold the steer arms to the spindles. But the bolt body was to narrow and there were no matching nuts. I think these are actually to hold brake calipers to the spindle. But the Wilwoods come with their own fasteners. I also had more shim washers with the hardware for the lower control arms than I knew what to do with. I put one in the rear mount on each side like the manual said but there is no way more than one would fit. So I just take the extra mystery items and have a dedicated tool box drawer in case a place for them shows up later.

[Namrups]

I purchased the coupe before the software change over and my inventory list seems to be less confusing. I have started a new thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44549-Inventory-parts-list) where I am going to copy my inventory parts list so that folks can cross reference mine with theirs and maybe it will help to better define where different hardware is used.

[racingandfishing]

I purchased the coupe before the software change over and my inventory list seems to be less confusing. I have started a new thread (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44549-Inventory-parts-list) where I am going to copy my inventory parts list so that folks can cross reference mine with theirs and maybe it will help to better define where different hardware is used.

Scott, this will be super helpful for when my coupe arrives. Thank you for providing the best possible answers to the multiple choice test. As always appreciate your paying it forward and wish you were closer to Texas so I could buy you a beer or two or three!

[Namrups]

Scott, this will be super helpful for when my coupe arrives. Thank you for providing the best possible answers to the multiple choice test. As always appreciate your paying it forward and wish you were closer to Texas so I could buy you a beer or two or three!

Hey... Thanks for the support. I'm retired now so after the build is done travel could be on the list of things to do! :rolleyes:

[Daral]

To add on with specific examples, I am told the upper control arm castle nuts should have been included with the ball joint. they were not, but the cotter pins and zerk fittings were. Also, there were no bolts on the coilover box to attach them and the specifications are not detailed in the manual. I emailed FFR and they told me to reference the manual, which is of no help so I will plan to use something from the big box of random fasteners and hope it is right and not stealing from somewhere else.

I recently received my kit so my experience should be the same as JJK's. The Castle nuts were in with the ball joints. The spacers for the shocks were also in that box, not with the shocks. The bolts and nuts for mounting the shocks were in the 17155 Roadster Fastner box. It has been a challenge to find everything for each project since they are spread over several boxes. You can't use the FFR numbers or the additional numbers on the Fastener bags. You just need to look for the correct size bolt and nut as described in the build manual. The problem is that sometimes the manual doesn't say which size fastener to use.

[Daral]

Jeff - The inventory sheets do not tell us which fastener goes with which component or assembly. That is the problem. I am concerned that I will use a fastener for a component that was earmarked for something else.

[Namrups]

I am copying my inventory list from my coupe purchase. It was before the software changeover. It may help you figure out where specific nuts and bolts go. Here is the link: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44549-Inventory-parts-list

[Theshandman]

I would think FFR would produce an IPL (illustrated parts list) for all the assemblies identifying p/n and location. I can get such diagrams on line for my refrigerator, stove, dish washer, blender…
Must be a reason why they haven’t after all the years they have been in business…. Intellectual property concerns perhaps?

[FFinisher]

One other thing I ran into is having mystery bolts and spacers. There are 4 metric thread bolts with 12 point 12 MM heads that were with the spindles and steer arms. I thought because of the small head size it was to hold the steer arms to the spindles. But the bolt body was to narrow and there were no matching nuts. I think these are actually to hold brake calipers to the spindle. But the Wilwoods come with their own fasteners. I also had more shim washers with the hardware for the lower control arms than I knew what to do with. I put one in the rear mount on each side like the manual said but there is no way more than one would fit. So I just take the extra mystery items and have a dedicated tool box drawer in case a place for them shows up later.

FLYboy, these are for the front caliper brackets to spindles. The ones that come with the wilwoods are 6 point and you can't get a socket on them. YOU will be happier with the 12 bolt ones.

[DIBaledo]

I just received my MK4 Roadster Complete Kit on Sunday and have now started my "thorough" inventory. I did notice the Fastener Pack in a box within Box 1. My Inventory list also had an itemized list of each bolt, washer, nut, etc. in the Fastener Pack. Additionally, each type of fastener was in a separate labeled bag with a complete description of the contents. I can't believe that I'm the only one who received their kit this way. Perhaps, with the new inventory system and comments here, FFR quickly responded - great for me, not so much for those who did not have the detail available that FFR sent with mine. So far through about 20 boxes and only 2 missing parts that had been checked off as included. Also, since my kit stayed at FFR for about 2 weeks before Stewart picked it up, most of my POL was delivered with the kit.

So far, very impressed with FFR's new system.

David....

[Fordfan96]

I’ve built a couple of jeep CJ’s and gotten pre-packaged hardware kits to do so. These have come broken down into bags of hardware for each component (ie: windshield hinge bolts, door hardware, etc.). It really took the guesswork out of what went where. I got my kit 10-26-22 (was ready to ship 9-17 but couldn’t get on shippers manifest right away). I went through every box and noted what I had/ didn’t have. FFR has been good about trying to get stuff to me, but it really gets annoying when you are missing hardware. I’ve been jumping all through the build manual to work around what I’m missing just to keep moving forward. I will be so happy if the supply chain ever gets back to normal.

[Tooth]

Jeff - The inventory sheets do not tell us which fastener goes with which component or assembly. That is the problem. I am concerned that I will use a fastener for a component that was earmarked for something else.

I'm pretty sure I've done this a few times already. But, I don't see it as a big problem, I've been ordering nuts and bolts I can't find or don't have yet.

[zee]

Bumping this over to just rant a bit.

Every time I sit down to do my build, I have fasteners and nuts/bolts missing. Sometimes these are parts that aren't even on my inventory list. The manual sometimes doesn't even mention exactly what to use (eg: "use the large mechanical lock nut").

I received my fasteners in a big ziplock bag. I've measured and organized every bolt, nut and spacer. I've created an inventory of all. It's fairly quick for me to know what I have and what I don't.

Virtually every single time I get blocked :). I am guessing most of my missing stuff is related to the front suspensions so once I am through this, it'll go faster. I was stuck in some Canadian kit change that is likely contributing to it. But it's honestly uber frustrating!

I don't mind it when I can source the part locally, but spacers have been an issue.

Anyway, no action required. Just needed to get it off my chest.

[narly1]

Bumping this over to just rant a bit.

Every time I sit down to do my build, I have fasteners and nuts/bolts missing.



After inventorying everything that I picked up at the factory I was pleasantly surprised with the completeness of the hardware.

Sum total of MIK hardware wise was:

Box 15: qty 24 pn# 34088 3/8-16 locknut

Box 21: qty 4 pn# 25995 M12-1.75 locknut

Box 35: qty 1 pn# 34526 5/16-18 flanged locknut (note that the 17 pc count was correct but 1 piece was the wrong size)

I should also add that the box 21 & 35 MIKs items
came on Saturday.

Earl

[zee]

After inventorying everything that I picked up at the factory I was pleasantly surprised with the completeness of the hardware.

Sum total of MIK hardware wise was:

Box 15: qty 24 pn# 34088 3/8-16 locknut

Box 21: qty 4 pn# 25995 M12-1.75 locknut

Box 35: qty 1 pn# 34526 5/16-18 flanged locknut (note that the 17 pc count was correct but 1 piece was the wrong size)

I should also add that the box 21 & 35 MIKs items
came on Saturday.

Earl

Rub it in, will ya :p

[narly1]

Rub it in, will ya :p

Let's see how complete today's shipment is LOL.

Earl

[Norm B]

Zee, most likely it is a Canadian kit issue. For FFR to get approval to ship to Canada they had to remove all electrical, fuel, brake, drivetrain and suspension components. Some stuff gets through, like the front upper control arms but, most doesn’t. My kit in 2012 was nearly rejected by Transport Canada due to the upper ball joints being included in the inventory. Got a bit of a nasty paragraph in my import approval letter.
Whitby had a Canadian completion pack at that time with an inventory of the missing parts. I bought the components I couldn’t source locally from them and used their inventory list to help me buy the other needed items from local suppliers.

[zee]

Zee, most likely it is a Canadian kit issue. For FFR to get approval to ship to Canada they had to remove all electrical, fuel, brake, drivetrain and suspension components. Some stuff gets through, like the front upper control arms but, most doesn’t. My kit in 2012 was nearly rejected by Transport Canada due to the upper ball joints being included in the inventory. Got a bit of a nasty paragraph in my import approval letter.
Whitby had a Canadian completion pack at that time with an inventory of the missing parts. I bought the components I couldn’t source locally from them and used their inventory list to help me buy the other needed items from local suppliers.

What actually happened was that after my order of the Canadian completion back and base kit, FFR changed them. My completion kit was based on their *old* kit but the base kit assumed I had the *new* kit. So there are some parts I have multiples of and some I don't have at all (but they're not in an inventory list so I dont know I dont have them :)). Some of these are obvious (umm guys, should I have gotten the steering shaft and stuff). Others not so obvious (Uh, I don't have these spacers and these bolts).

I am now sourcing bolts and nuts locally, but some spacers aren't easy to find.

[VKannan]

I'm having similar issues. I am missing all of the 1/2"-20 3" bolts which are used for the banana bracket, rear shock base, and numerous other areas it seems. Also missing shims. I've been back and forth to Ace Hardware more times than I can count - 3 times today alone.

Those items aren't even on the list of items I should have received, so it's not like I can claim them as missing when they were never promised in the first place...

[narly1]

I am now sourcing bolts and nuts locally, but some spacers aren't easy to find.

Check out Spaenaur in Kitchener.

Earl

[Mike.Bray]

The entire fastener thing from FFR is mind boggling to me. Over half of my POL list was fasteners and I was able to get every one at my local Ace Hardware. We're not talking about AN aerospace fasteners with these kits, we're talking about industrial grade fasteners available from local hardware stores. IMO missing fasteners should be the very, very rare exception and not the rule as it seems to be. The level of frustration and to a lesser degree the added expense this causes is just not acceptable. FFR needs additional fastener suppliers.

I was lucky in that my POL list was less than a page long with most being fasteners. Eleven months after I received my kit and just a few days from paint going on I received my last POL item. I think FFR is a good company and build a good kit. I like the design and feel it is very good value. But POL items that take months to get, MIK lists, and missing fasteners make what should be a fun and exciting time frustrating. I sincerely hope they can get a handle on this.

[JohnK]

The entire fastener thing from FFR is mind boggling to me.

Agreed. I spent my entire career working in Manufacturing Operations. Running out of fasteners was just so stupid someone would get fired over it. It's just not that hard to manage.

[zee]

Those items aren't even on the list of items I should have received, so it's not like I can claim them as missing when they were never promised in the first place...

I hear you, I know exactly how you feel :)



Check out Spaenaur in Kitchener.

Earl

Thanks, will check them out.



Over half of my POL list was fasteners and I was able to get every one at my local Ace Hardware. .

That's the thing, other than the two spacers I've been able to get everything comfortably. Initially it was a matter of principle, I wanted FFR to send them to me. Then I got over it and wanted to unblock myself. I don't even mind spending the extra money, but because I don't have a concrete list of every fastener I *should* have, I can't just do an inventory and get everything missing in one trip!

[Mike.Bray]

Agreed. I spent my entire career working in Manufacturing Operations. Running out of fasteners was just so stupid someone would get fired over it. It's just not that hard to manage.

Yep. My company has manufacturing plants around the world. We build machines and put "kits" together to fill projects all over the world. These projects are worth millions of dollars so there's a lot of gear shipping and being installed. In my 24 years with this company I cannot ever recall not having all of the fasteners required unless it was an oversight which is very rare. Each machine or assembly has a drawing with a BOM that includes every fastener required. They're checked off at packing. One might get missed but we're never out of stock. Never. Like you said, managing basic industrial fasteners is not that hard.