Possible Clutch Swap Complexity/Recommendations?

[CP82AERO]

Hi,

I'm about 80% complete on a MKIV build. It has a 351W (427) Dart block with a TKO 600. I bought the transmission, bell housing, clutch assembly and flywheel as a kit from Summit. What I didn't realize--didn't do my homework--is that the clutch assembly that came with the kit (RAM-98794HDT) is a pretty extreme street/strip model, and sure enough after installing the kit's clutch cable and trying it out, the pedal force is pretty extreme. Most of me wants to wait and see how onerous it is when I get the car on the road but at this point I can see that extended stop and go traffic could be a deal-buster.
My questions to you wise folks are (in order of complexity required to ease disengagement force) are:

1. Is there anything that could help with staying with a cable set up, i.e. aftermarket cable, more mechanical advantage somehow at the pedal assembly or clutch fork,

2. How much, if any would a hydraulic actuation/throw out bearing set-up help?

3. How hard is it to swap out the clutch on a completed MKIV car; transmission and bell housing only vs. full engine/transmission removal?

Thanks-Brian

[edwardb]

My thoughts:

1. A high quality cable, like Ford Performance, can definitely be better than the standard kit cable. Mike Forte also sells an extender for the clutch fork that reduces effort. But no free lunch -- at some expense to total clutch pedal throw. You may have to raise the pedal to move far enough.

2. I've had cable, external hydraulic, and hydraulic throw-out bearing. I didn't notice too much difference between a good cable setup and the external hydraulic. I do notice a lower effort with the internal TOB (what I currently have in my Coupe) but it's a debated topic that not everyone agrees with. Plus the same amount of work to retrofit into your build as a different and perhaps more proper clutch.

3. It's possible to drop the transmission off the back. and then the bell housing, from an installed engine in the Mk4. I helped a buddy do it. It's possible but not too fun. We were on jack stands. Would have been easier on a lift. Since you're 80% done, maybe don't have the body on yet? If so, I'd pull the entire assembly (engine and trans). Relatively easier than with the body on and especially a completed and painted car.

My vote is fix it now, not later. Put a proper clutch in it. You will regret if you don't. Especially if the effort is so high it's not fun to drive. All the changes (different cable, different hydraulics, etc.) just make the right choice easier to use. Not to patch something that's maybe not right to begin with.

[michael everson]

As Edward said. The cable makes a big difference. If you are using the FFR supplied cable, try a Ford cable first. I never would have believed the difference if i didn't experience it myself. Had a customer complain of a hard clutch. I could barley drive it because it was so hard. Put a ford cable in adn I could press it by hand. Now I throw the FFR one in the trash when I get a kit in.
Mike

[CP82AERO]

Thank you both. I'll try the Ford cable first and see what that buys me. Mike--do you have a part number--or year/make/model car for the Ford cable?
Plan B will be to get through engine start and then a go-kart drive or two to see if there are any other surprises awaiting me, especially since I built the engine from scratch--and then decide if I need/want to pull the engine and trans as one unit.
If I do swap out the clutch, any suggestions on a replacement? Not that I'll be abusing the clutch but the motor should be good for 500hp +/-.

Thanks again, guys.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

If you do split the trans from the engine on jack stands I have found this works. Cheap manual transmission jack to support the trans. Remove the shift tower 6 screws. That will give you enough room to slide it back & have the input shaft clear the bellhousing.

Second if you can't locate ready made dowels you can make them by cutting the heads off the appropriate sized bolts. Dowel will keep the trans input shaft aligned with the clutch disc & prevent the trans weight from damaging or pushing it out of alignment.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazine.com-vbulletin/850x637/trans_in_5e14e46e06832c2e512be02adb43b55ab8aee587. jpg

Remove red section

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazine.com-vbulletin/850x637/tko_600rb_08def3accf2255d7fc685d06df929aae04424a8b .jpg

Home made dowels

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazine.com-vbulletin/700x525/clutchas_bca4a8da6116394d6125e19c08e40afa8fdba813. jpg

Transmission jack

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazine.com-vbulletin/732x975/bells_89be99dfb05492cc39a4c0ceace37f48ba31d47e.jpg

Transmission pushed back

[CraigS]

If you decide to take it apart I would also call the clutch manufacturer and ask their thoughts on the disc. A friend got a clutch years ago that worked but it was like an on/off switch. He talked to the manufacturer who told him that the disc he had chosen was more oriented to drag racing. the compound of the friction material was made to withstand abuse. The recommended a different disc, he installed it, and then had a clutch he could enjoy.

[CP82AERO]

Thanks to all--as usual the forum rocks, and has and will save my ***. I look forward to having sage advice to help someday; in the meantime I'll let you know what I end up doing.

[CraigS]

BTW Forte sells an extension for the clutch fork that gives the cable a little more mechanical advantage.

[hineas]

We dropped our transmission in the go-kart stage. We have the hydraulic throwout bearing, but we didn't pull the slack out of the bleed hose. It was rubbing on the pressure plate and put a hole in the hose after a few miles of go karting. We had to drop the transmission to fix it.

Removing it was a pain because the bolts aren't easily accessible and have lock tight on them. But it is definitely doable and I'd do it again if I needed to. We used the same procedure as Kevin did above. The cut off bolts to use as dowels to align it are a huge help.

We also had a hard time aligning the transmission input shaft with the splines on the clutch disc. We ended up putting the driveline in and rotate the driveline to get the splines to align.

The whole procedure to drop the transmission, replace the hose, then reinstall the transmission to us less than 6 hours. We had two people (myself and my brother) working on it which helped. This was definitely faster and less work than disconnecting the exhaust, headers, power steering, wiring, etc. and then pulling the engine.

I don't know about removing the clutch, though. We left the bell housing attached to the engine and only dropped the transmission. If you choose to drop the transmission, make sure there is room to drop the bell housing. I assume it would be easier to drop the transmission and then remove the bell housing from the engine.

[ggunter]

I had to replace the rear seal on my new engine. Pulling the trans is not fun but doable, as it has to go as far back and up as possible to get the bellhousing out to get to the clutch. I push mine back as far as possible then used a ratchet strap to pull it up against the trans tunnel tubing and you get about 1/2" clearance to get the bellhousing out and replace the clutch. Much easier then pulling the engine. Total time was 6 hours.

[AROCK]

I have a MK4 , 427, with a Quick time bellhousing and a TKX Trans and I pulled my trans in less than 2 hours last Wednesday. The key being the bellhousing has to come out the same time as the trans. The TKX is a bigger trans than the TKO. If you push the trans as far back in chassis as possible disconnect the bell and slide it down on the trans input shaft, remove the internal throw out bearing, and using a trans jack lower the trans and bell simultaneously and once the bell clears the pressure plate remove it from trans. if you angle the trans to the right as you lower it the bell comes off easier.
When removing the drove shaft I lowered the bottle jack I had under the rear of the engine and move the engine toward the drivers side and the driveshaft slipped right out.

I have had my trans out and in twice in learning how to remove and install it easily. My trans had be dropped in shipment by the freight carrier on the input shaft breaking the the blocker and synchronizer in 4th gear. it was under warranty from Tremec since they shipped it. But it took me a lot of aggravation to find out I had a new trans that had been dropped and broken.

The clutch I use is the 10.5 Mcleod extreme duty Mustang and the Mcleod 1400 throw out bearing

[CraigS]

One other tip that sometimes helps is jack the front of the engine. You don't need to go far, but a couple of extra degrees of angle is nice. The engine sits just fine on engine mounts only and they have enough flex in them to absorb the extra angle.