John's JDM Honda K24A 818R Rebuild

[Hobby Racer]

This is a continuation of a build thread I started back in 2017 where I documented the initial build of my 818R using a Subaru EZ36 flat 6 engine. To see anything related to the first build of my car with that power-plant please check out the thread listed below. Please post any questions about the old build in that thread.

John's EZ36R H6 818R Build (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23199-John-s-EZ36R-H6-818R-Build)

This thread, however, will document the change over from the Subaru H6 engine to the JDM Honda K24A High Performance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine#K24A) inline four cylinder engine I have chosen going forward.

For those who have not seen the car previously, here it is.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173576&d=1665344943

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=152576&d=1629759704

And here is the new engine I will be fitting into the chassis. It is a JDM Honda K24A high performance engine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine#K24A) featuring the iVTEC system which has variable timing control on the intake cam PLUS dual lift profiles on both the intake and exhaust cams. Factory rated at 203hp @7000 rpm, this particular engine most likely came out of a 2003-2008 Honda Odyssey Absolute. I know, only the Japanese would put a performance engine in a mini van!

In any case, subscribe to this new thread to get updates about the Honda install. There will be lots of information about fitting this engine to the 818R as it is not a drop in configuration.

My goals for this project are:

Fit the engine with minimal frame modifications
Continue to use the Subaru 6MT transmission from the old build
No external body modifications (I don't want to have to repaint any part of the car)
Use my existing standalone ECU and other electronics to run the engine
Use my existing supercharger and AWIC system to boost performance
Make ~300 whp using the completely stock motor
Fabricate an oil system (wet or dry) to keep from blowing up this motor



https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173520&d=1665270358

[Hobby Racer]

It was really hard emotionally to disassemble basically the entire car. Cutting the wire harness to get it through the bulk head was probably the toughest. I stood frozen for what felt like minutes just holding the wire cutters and thinking about the endless hours spent crimping and trouble shooting all 70+ wires.

But you have to tear the old down to make room for the new. Here is a pic before and after the firewall removal where I cut out the entire center "A" section of supports so I could mock up the engine placement.

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After shedding a few tears I got down to the job at hand. So...is this thing really going to fit?

Here is a pic with the engine in the straight up vertical position, followed by 2 of the engine at a 15o tilt. The stock motor sits at a 15o tilt from the factory. The transmission adapter plate is available at both 0o & 15o angles.

Still not 100% sure of which way I'll go, but I'm leaning towards the 15o tilt for a couple of reasons.


If I go wet sump, the stock pan already has a 15o angled bottom.
It gives me a slightly lower overall vertical engine height when tilted.
That's how the factory intend it and I don't really see any downside to it.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173655&d=1665613385

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173657&d=1665613385

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=173656&d=1665613385

[Hobby Racer]

Ordered the transmission adapter plate from Kennedy Engineering (https://www.kennedyeng.com/engine-adapters). Went with the 15o engine tilt. They take 5-6 weeks to get. Updates will be slow until it arrives.

[Larry J W]

Thank you John for the updates and the work you did on the ez36. I still have a ez36 and controller in the garage. I may get it installed this winter.
Larry

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Ordered the transmission adapter plate from Kennedy Engineering (https://www.kennedyeng.com/engine-adapters). Went with the 15o engine tilt. They take 5-6 weeks to get. Updates will be slow until it arrives.

Wow, Kennedy has been around for a while. They built and adaptor for me in 1995. I was building an electric Plymouth Voyager Minivan.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgduxxAs3q-xjDbjHnUcjJzK3DFe?e=q5B9fT

[Hobby Racer]

Wow, Kennedy has been around for a while. They built and adaptor for me in 1995. I was building an electric Plymouth Voyager Minivan.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgduxxAs3q-xjDbjHnUcjJzK3DFe?e=q5B9fT

I picked Kennedy over the one other vendor that does an adapter kit from Australia because Kennedy is US based, less expensive and should have a faster turnaround.

[Hobby Racer]

While waiting for my adapter plate to arrive I'm trying to find smaller side projects to stay engaged with this rebuild/swap. I pulled the factory intake and throttle body from the Honda motor for cleaning and noticed how small the throttle body opening is, 62mm. I thought to myself, I have a perfectly good larger throttle body that already mates up to the intercooler tubing I have from the EZ36 motor. Checking the mounting pattern reveled that the two are not that different.

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So when you have a milling machine and you are bored, you modify stuff :D

I offset drilled the Honda hole pattern onto the Subaru throttle body plate and it fits very nicely.

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The only hiccup is this weird notch Honda cut in the bottom of the intake manifold. It does not seem to serve a purpose. Even the Honda throttle body just caps it off. If I am to use the larger throttle body I will need to make an adapter plate to cover the notch or weld in a plug and re-machine the mating surface.

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[Rob T]

This work must make for some interesting fixturing. I'd love to see some pictures of that when you do it. I find I can always learn a lot from others.

[Hobby Racer]

This work must make for some interesting fixturing. I'd love to see some pictures of that when you do it. I find I can always learn a lot from others.

It did! I should have taken some pictures but I didn't. I'll try to remember to next time.

[Cosmo1stgen]

Very nice! Good to see this happening more often. After years of work and family stuff halting work mine is finally back apart and the frame ready to be powder coated. I am also running a megasquirt and a dbwx2. That weird dip in the intake manifold is only present on the 04-05 motors. In the usdm 06-08 manifold that is gone and the runners are a little fatter.

[7ish]

I ran a K24A3 with a rotrex supercharger... needed the 50 degree inlet cam and pulley from the type R, 1000cc injectors and AEM computer. Made 406 hp at the rear wheels. Stock bottom end and pistons.

Good choice!

[Hobby Racer]

I ran a K24A3 with a rotrex supercharger... needed the 50 degree inlet cam and pulley from the type R, 1000cc injectors and AEM computer. Made 406 hp at the rear wheels. Stock bottom end and pistons.

Good choice!

Wow! If you don't mind me asking, what model Rotrex supercharger and what pulley size did you use? Also, how much boost did it make and at what RPM?

[Cosmo1stgen]

I ran a K24A3 with a rotrex supercharger... needed the 50 degree inlet cam and pulley from the type R, 1000cc injectors and AEM computer. Made 406 hp at the rear wheels. Stock bottom end and pistons.

Good choice!

That would be wild in an 818. The 50 deg vct also comes in the base rsx k20a3 and the k20a2 rsx type s. Though they claim in vtec on the early k24a a2 engines you cannot run that much cam advance due to piston to valve clearance. Better to cut the 25deg cam gear to run up near 40 deg. The stock k24 in an 818r with its weight is going to be fairly quick. I have an 818c and am planning to go turbo after I run it na and that may not be necessary.

[orangecruz]

love this project and good luck with the progress

[7ish]

Rotrex was a C30-94, running up to 15psi. K20 crank pulley, I can't remember the size of the supercharger pulley, but it was set to give max rotrex rpm at engine redline.
Inlet cam advance limited to 45 degrees. Here's a link to the car I put it in, along with the dyno graph.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/specialist-cars/competition-cars/listing/3857583298?bof=xYgmL9B1

http://i.imgur.com/DFmK7tj.jpg (https://imgur.com/DFmK7tj)

http://i.imgur.com/tvVkZLy.jpg (https://imgur.com/tvVkZLy)


I wanted plenty of low end boost but not too much at high rpm, so I used a wastegate on the inlet pipe to limit high rpm boost. (Visible in the pictures).

[Hobby Racer]

Rotrex was a C30-94, running up to 15psi. K20 crank pulley, I can't remember the size of the supercharger pulley, but it was set to give max rotrex rpm at engine redline.
Inlet cam advance limited to 45 degrees. Here's a link to the car I put it in, along with the dyno graph.

I wanted plenty of low end boost but not too much at high rpm, so I used a wastegate on the inlet pipe to limit high rpm boost. (Visible in the pictures).

Very cool, thanks!

I may be in a similar situation since my supercharger is a bit over-sized for the stock K24. I'm using the Rotrex C38-91 from my previous engine which was a 3.2 liter 6 cylinder. I either have to run a huge supercharger pulley and a small crank pulley and lose my bottom end or do what you did and run a wastegate on the inlet.

[Hobby Racer]

Here is what I came up with to mount the Supercharger low on the K24 engine. I still need to remove some excess material in the area marked in pencil. But I have not yet decided how much and what shape(s) to use.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175030&d=1668720673

My original design, shown in the next picture just above the new design, mounted the supercharger higher up and to the right of the alternator. That made for a really long belt span between the crank pulley and the supercharger pulley. I did not like that so I tucked it down low about where the factory AC compressor goes.

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I started with a 3/8" thick plate of 6061-T6 aluminum I had left over from the last bracket I made. The rotary table made it easy to get the large radius hole and curves just right. I find it very helpful to glue a full scale drawing of the part I'm making to the material before machining. This way it is easy to see if I'm doing the right thing with the dials and the reference dimensions are right in front of you at all times.

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It's always fun to play in the garage with my big boy toys. :)

[Hobby Racer]

Maybe something simple. Triangle and circle?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175044&d=1668725024

[7ish]

I used an electric water pump... made for easier install...


http://i.imgur.com/qctKS8p.jpg (https://imgur.com/qctKS8p)

[Hobby Racer]

After about 8 weeks my transmission adapter kit has finally arrived from Kennedy Engineering. The fit and finish is beautiful. The plate is 28mm thick aluminum and weighs in at 6 lbs 4.4 oz. The custom made flywheel is machined out of a 28mm thick steel plate. and weighs 21 lbs. 9.4 oz. Heavy, I know but what you going to do. :rolleyes:

They even include all new hardware, including ARP flywheel bolts. Fasteners weigh in at 2 lbs 4.6 oz.

Total kit weight is 30 lbs 2.4 oz.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176717&d=1670951939

Here is the back side of the flywheel.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=176718&d=1670951939

[Rob T]

Santa came early this year, and it's no lump of coal....

[Aero STI]

That Kennedy kit looks great! It's nice that they provided all the hardware. Very professional. Subarugears could learn something from them.

[aquillen]

John, that belt tensioner shown on your front adapter plate - what is the part # info on that if you have it? I keep having to adjust my belt about 6 months apart - no tensioner. Looking for the smallest I can find and looks like you may be showing me what to try... tx. Art

[Hobby Racer]

John, that belt tensioner shown on your front adapter plate - what is the part # info on that if you have it? I keep having to adjust my belt about 6 months apart - no tensioner. Looking for the smallest I can find and looks like you may be showing me what to try... tx. Art

That's not my engine photo :D. You might want to ask 7ish

[aquillen]

So I see looking back - thanks

[Hobby Racer]

Fitting a K24 into the 818R and keeping it below the rear deck lid is not for the faint of heart! Combine the extra length of an inline 4 cylinder with the 1" thick transmission adapter AND a 6 speed, which is larger in every dimension compared to a 5 speed, is like trying stuff 20lbs of crap into a 10lb bag. :rolleyes:

With significant frame modifications, it's going to fit with maybe a 1/4" to spare in almost every direction.

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I'm going to have to lower the entire drivetrain ~5 inches. This will put the engine in between the upper and lower square frame tubes that the aluminum firewall bolts to. The motor belt and pulleys will protrude into the area that used to have the "A" shape firewall supports that I have cut out already. The oil pan will sit above the floor pan by about 1/4" and the valve cover will be even with the top of the 1.5" square tube that the round roll bars connect to. About a 1/4" gap will be present between the front of the engine valve cover and the back side of 1.5" square tube.

The rear section of the frame below the transmission will have to be cut out entirely and a new lowered section will need to be fabricated. I will have to cut my rear diffuser into a right and left section now. The transmission will hang below the frame significantly. I will most likely make a sturdy skid plate to avoid damaging the transmission if I have an off track event.

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[7ish]

Belt tensioner is : Gates 38382 Belt Tensioner

Bought via Amazon. Not sure what the original car is, sorry.

[aquillen]

You recall seeing a thread a couple years back showing how the rear frame area for the transmission support developed cracks? I'd say triangulate the rear support all the way back during your design of the necessary new support.

[Hobby Racer]

You recall seeing a thread a couple years back showing how the rear frame area for the transmission support developed cracks? I'd say triangulate the rear support all the way back during your design of the necessary new support.

I don't recall that thread. I do plan to triangulate as much as I can. I'll post pics along the way so everyone can comment on my design choices. ;)

[Hobby Racer]

Time to make room for the transmission to be lowered. I cut out the entire center section under the transmission. It's now a hollow rectangle. I will be keeping the rear most 1x1 square tube and the middle 1.5x1.5 square tube. For now they are keeping the rear frame geometry in place.


pic, unaltered transmission section.
pic, transmission section cut out.
pic, clean view without the center section.



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Here you can see where I'm going to carve out some of the rear transmission cover to allow the tail to sink below the rear 1x1 square tube frame piece. I plan to keep that piece as it secures my rear bumper and diffusor to the car. After cutting along the RED lines I will tig weld in some thin plate aluminum to seal up the back of the transmission.


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[cob427sc]

Just a thought, why not just jog the steel tube around the rear of the transmission case so you don't have to cut the case and fabricate a cover that must be perfectly sealed so fluid doesn't leak out? Maybe even jog under the tranny.

[Hobby Racer]

Just a thought, why not just jog the steel tube around the rear of the transmission case so you don't have to cut the case and fabricate a cover that must be perfectly sealed so fluid doesn't leak out? Maybe even jog under the tranny.

The rear bumper sits tight to the back of the bar now and bolts to it from the bottom. I don't want to go around as that would push the bar through the rear bumper.

Going under is doable but it would require bodywork to reshape the bottom of the rear bumper and relocate it's mounting points. If I cut the transmission case I can fit it without any body work or modification to the rear bumper.

I've already cut up the transmission cover once before, you can see the weld beads in the last picture. It's not that difficult.

I guess I'll think on that a bit more before I cut anything.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

In my original 818 cooling design I had a rear mounted Radiator. In doing so i needed to shorten the transmission by 3 inches. I accomplished this by going through the side of the transmission and cutting of the shift shaft out the back. I don't know itf this is possible with the MT6 transmission.
Better explianed by this video:
This wasn't my final design, but you get the idea.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLPjJnvYMAM

[Hobby Racer]

In my original 818 cooling design I had a rear mounted Radiator. In doing so i needed to shorten the transmission by 3 inches. I accomplished this by going through the side of the transmission and cutting of the shift shaft out the back. I don't know itf this is possible with the MT6 transmission.
Better explianed by this video:
This wasn't my final design, but you get the idea.



I remember that post, very interesting but it's not possible with twin shift shaft design of the 6MT.

[Hobby Racer]

In my last build I restored/rebuilt a Bridgeport milling machine (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23199-John-s-EZ36R-H6-818R-Build&p=419131&viewfull=1#post419131) that I love. You can see it in the background of this picture. In this build I just finished rebuilding/restoring my first metal lathe, a 1942 Monarch 10EE toolroom lathe. This will definately come in handy with the 818R! I already made a bushing I needed to reloacate the idler pulley on the K24 engine.

Next post will be car related I promise :D

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178675&d=1674772687

[Rob T]

Hobby: Both the machines look beautiful. I went the PM Matthews route on a PM10/30 lathe and a table top mill (PM727). I have had a blast building tools like a die holder for the lathe and a spring loaded tap follower that works on the lathe and the mill. I think you told me that once you have these tools, you look for reasons to use them. My brother is a wood worker and thinks 1/16" is close enough. I tell him that 1/16" is 62.5 thousandths, and not even in the ballpark. Congratulations.

[Hobby Racer]

Now that some of my side projects are coming to an end I can get back to the car. Before I can finalize the engine / trans position in the engine bay I need to know all my clearances. This meant I needed to finish the transmission rear cover slim down project. To maximize the room I needed to make the rear cover as slim as possible so I cut out every possible inch and now if fits without having to cut the rear most frame bar which holds up my bumper and rear diffuser. As you can see, the transmission now sinks nicely below the rear frame sections and has decent clearance while preserving the rear frame bar.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179642&d=1675998521

Making the cutout was quite the challenge. First I had to cut the majority of material out with a good old fashioned hacksaw as the cover would not fit in my metal band saw. Next it was over to the mill for cleanup to final dimension.

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I then bent up a piece of sheet aluminum to fit and trimmed all the edges to match the odd shape hole left in the cover. The hardest task was welding up the plate to the casting. Welding oily old cast aluminum is a very frustrating. It took many rounds of welding, grinding out the crappy contaminated welds and re-welding to get it done so it didn't leak.

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The finished product is still some on my worst welding, but it's sealed up and doesn't leak so I'm moving on. :D

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[J R Jones]

Die castings are hard to weld. Oil not withstanding die cast have impurities and porosity.
Sand castings and matched plate castings are much easier to weld. Different alloys.
I have seen the low temperature weld rods at the EAA that work with propane or Mapp gas but I never used them. They claim they work on die cast and pot metal which has similarities to die cast aluminum.
jim

[Hobby Racer]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180084&d=1676592829

I finally got the serpentine drive belt system worked out and completed. I finished welding the supercharger mounting bracket and fabricated a needed idler pulley at the top so I could run the original accessories and keep the factory belt tensioner. Most people get rid of the water pump, pump housing, alternator and belt tensioner when they swap in a JDM K24. This is because they are different from the versions that come on USDM K24's. I figured I would save some time and money and use the JDM stuff that came with the engine. If something fails down the road I still have a complete spare engine to pull parts from.

I modified the factory front engine support bracket to use as the base for my upper idler pulley. I had to support the pulley from the opposite side as all the other pulleys since there was not enough clearance on the back side closest to the block. I experimented with multiple pulley positions and settled on the current spot.

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Now I am just waiting for the new belt I ordered to arrive. I hope it is a perfect fit. I also added a smaller crank pulley from a JDM K20 Type-R motor. it's lighter and smaller and drives the accessories slower, generating less parasitic drag.

[Hobby Racer]

I ordered a cheap Chinese knock-off of a good Honda intake manifold :D

I was actually pleasantly surprised by the casting quality. All the machined edges need deburring , but are smooth and flat.

I need to modify it to accept a GM intake air temperature sensor so I had to find a way to fixture it in my mill. Here is an example were you need to get creative. The surface I need to drill and tap is under the level in the pictures. It is not flat, nor aligned with any machined edges. So I worked off the throttle body mounting plane as its machined flat and true and used wooden blocks and wedges under the manifold to get the area I'm working on level in the Y axis. The X axis was close enough and didn't need shimming.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180514&d=1677199435

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180515&d=1677199435


When that's all done I will machine the adapter plate needed to mate the Honda Intake to the Subaru throttle body. I designed it in CAD to ensure everything fit well before cutting any metal. Then I'll finish it up by port matching it to the larger Subaru throttle body I'm using.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180516&d=1677200247

[Hobby Racer]

I've lowered the engine./trans about as low as I dare. Lowering it this much causes a slight upward angle on the drive axles. Not ideal, but in the acceptable range I think. Pushing the engine/trans back as far as I have also requires me to relocate one of the rear wish bone links that rubs the CV joint boot.

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[Hobby Racer]

I got started on the motor mounts and really like the way they are coming together. I designed the mounts in CAD and had them made out of 3/16" plate steel. I used SendCutSend again and they did a great job. I could have made the brackets myself but I didn't have the right material on hand and for the cost it didn't seem worth my time. The laser cut brackets fit perfectly.

Here are the brackets as they came from SendCutSend, followed by versions after some needed welding. And finally painted, from this angle you can see that the intake side needed two different length standoffs as no two bolt holes on that side of the block, in the area I wanted my motor mounts, are on the same plane. :rolleyes:

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Next I had to secure the engine/trans in space so I could get real measurement between the frame and the motor mounts. I used multiple straps pulling against one another in all three planes of movement. This allowed me to adjust the precise position of things to get the engine centered in the engine bay, the angle of tilt (approx 15 degrees), and transmission angle relative to the ground set right.

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Everything is only tacked in place for now. After I get the transmission mounts and frame bracing in place I will final weld all the pieces.

[Hobby Racer]

I finished the custom throttle body adapter that was needed to join the larger throttle body from my Subaru EZ36 motor to the Honda intake manifold.

In the first picture you can see the 4 countersunk holes that fasten the adapter to the intake manifold and the 4 tapped holes that the throttle body bolts too. In the second picture you can see the taper that transitions smoothly from the smaller inner diameter of the throttle body to the larger inner diameter of the intake manifold.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181119&d=1678056168https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181129&d=1678056998

This small piece was complex enough that I needed to design it in CAD first to be sure everything would come together correctly. I'm embarrassed to say I made MANY prototypes before I got everything to fit up right. I started off using a 3D printer but found that the tolerances were too loose so I moved on to making them out of MDF board on my milling machine.

Here are some of the prototypes and test pieces.
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Here are some more pics of the setup in the lathe cutting that smooth taper. It was such an odd shaped part I had to bolt it to a square board to mount it up in my 4 jaw chuck. Finally some close ups of the finished part.

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[FFRWRX]

Very nice work. Sometimes I find that when I skip the prototyping stage (because in my head it is going to come out perfect without doing that) I end up scrapping the part and starting again....and again....and again. I learn slowly.

Rick

[Rob T]

Very Nice. One advantage of bolting the odd shaped piece to the board in the 4-jaw was that you could cut the taper just past the end of the piece into the wood without hitting the 4 jaw. Genius.

[Hobby Racer]

I had a marathon day of welding. I finish welded the motor mounts, made the transmission mounts, made a small cross brace and finally welded everything into place! I might add some cross bracing if I can find a spot that it will fit.

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[Hobby Racer]

With the engine and transmission sitting on the finished mounts, you can see everything is a really tight fit. Here are a bunch of pics from various angles.

Next I need to add back some cross bracing to the rear firewall.

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[Jetfuel]

I really hope that you’re rewarded for your hard work in your quest for speed and reliability.

Jet

[Hobby Racer]

One of my goals for this rebuild was "minimal frame modifications". Well I failed on that one. :D

I added some diagonal triangulation and tied off the suspension mounting points at the lower section of the firewall.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181298&d=1678317896

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181297&d=1678317896

[Hobby Racer]

When you combine the additional length of an inline 4 cylinder engine, the transmission adapter and the longer Subaru 6 speed; you find the CV joints exit the transmission and do not have enough room to clear the rear most lower lateral link connection point. I had to move the inside connection point closer to the back. It is easier to understand looking at the picture. You can see where I cut off the original and pushed it back as far as possible, eliminating the spacers in the process.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181354&d=1678399615

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181352&d=1678399615

Here are both sides welded in place.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181353&d=1678399615

[Mark Eaton]

Is that 6 spd transmission the same width as the 5 spd? Im just wondering if it will affect the length that the CV axle needs to be? After all the issues I'm having trying to find a replacement CV joint for my 818 I am very tuned into this issue!

[Hobby Racer]

Is that 6 spd transmission the same width as the 5 spd? Im just wondering if it will affect the length that the CV axle needs to be? After all the issues I'm having trying to find a replacement CV joint for my 818 I am very tuned into this issue!

The 6 speed is wider, taller, longer and heavier than the 5 speed. It does not effect the axles though. The FFR design has plenty of room for lateral movement and slight variations in transmission width and placement. I used the FFR axles in both my original 5 speed and this 6 speed.

[Hobby Racer]

After some well spent time with the die grinder, the intake manifold is now port matched to the cylinder head. It really makes the cheap knock off manifold very nice.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181568&d=1678838877

[Hobby Racer]

I know it looks like I'm going backwards, but it really is forward progress. :)

In order to run a baffled wet sump oil pan you have to change the oil pump from the stock K24 to the stock K20 version. Those do not have balance shafts that get in the way of the pan baffles. Plus they are lighter, allow the engine to rev higher and provide a more stable oil supply. But to do it you need to remove the front timing chain and all the bits associated with it.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181642&d=1679005725

[Dave 53]

Watching your progress with interest. On the one hand, you're making it look easy. On the other hand, I've given up any fantasy of doing it myself.

[Hobby Racer]

Power-train goes back in for final fitments tomorrow!

Now tell me that red valve cover isn't worth at least 15hp! :p It does look a lot nicer now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=181992&d=1679607937

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[cob427sc]

Does look sharp! Love following your buildup.

[Hobby Racer]

Finishing up, connecting oil, cooling, exhaust, wiring etc... Fabricated the new rear tower bracing. Because the motor is right up against the rear firewall and slanted 15 degrees the supports are asymmetrical and do not meet in the center of the firewall.

I'm very pleased with how the packaging is falling into place.

Hoping for first start in April.


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[Hobby Racer]

I'm looking at the transmission cable routing and I am having a difficult time finding a good way to do it. With the engine tight against the firewall it limits my options. I'm even considering running them under the car starting at the gas tank and coming up under the transmission.

Any ideas are welcome!

[Ajzride]

Do something similar to Art and put mechanical linkage in the cockpit that moves the cables to the far edge of the cabin and then route your cables back along the fender well.

[Hobby Racer]

Do something similar to Art and put mechanical linkage in the cockpit that moves the cables to the far edge of the cabin and then route your cables back along the fender well.

I thought about that for a bit, but with the stock fuel tank there is not enough room to run the rods and linkages. I would need to swap to a different tank like Art did, and if I do that I could just customize the tank to run the cable under it.

Wait a minute, maybe I'll look at putting a pass through port in the tank. :rolleyes:

[Ajzride]

I raise my tank 1" and went under it.

[Hobby Racer]

I raise my tank 1" and went under it.

Ok, I like that idea. What did you use under the tank to raise it up?

[Ajzride]

Ok, I like that idea. What did you use under the tank to raise it up?

1" square tube, just like the frame.

[Hobby Racer]

1" square tube, just like the frame.

Any pics?

[Ajzride]

Not great ones. You can kind of see where I boxed the frame so I could go through it here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?34115-Another-Take-on-Solid-Shift-Linkage&p=388714&viewfull=1#post388714

I'll try to get some more tomorrow out in the garage.

[Hobby Racer]

Not great ones. You can kind of see where I boxed the frame so I could go through it here:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?34115-Another-Take-on-Solid-Shift-Linkage&p=388714&viewfull=1#post388714

I'll try to get some more tomorrow out in the garage.

No need, I get the idea from the post. I'm going to mock up something this weekend and see how I like it. Thanks!

[Ajzride]

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[Hobby Racer]

I see your also using a different tank. I'm still using the FFR steel tank and I don't think you can raise it much before it contacts the aluminum removable firewall panel.

I think I'm just going to bore a hole through the tank in the location I need and weld in a tube. This will give me a nice pass thru to run the cables and reverse lockout cable.

[autostang]

I see your also using a different tank. I'm still using the FFR steel tank and I don't think you can raise it much before it contacts the aluminum removable firewall panel.

I think I'm just going to bore a hole through the tank in the location I need and weld in a tube. This will give me a nice pass thru to run the cables and reverse lockout cable.

I put a tunnel through my gas tank this winter for shift rods and it worked out pretty well....do wish my welding skills were better, but it got there in the end. It makes for a nice direct path to the back of the car! I put a pivot point in just behind the firewall, then transitioned to short 3ft cables under the engine. It seems to shift well, but I haven't actually gotten the car back on the road yet to test.
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182404

[Hobby Racer]

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182446&d=1680479889

I cut the pass thru holes today. The compound angles needed to get the 2" pipe to pass through cleanly started to make my head hurt so I modeled it up in CAD and just asked the computer for the angles. :D

Tomorrow, hopefully I will have time to cut the tube ends flush with the tank and weld it all up.

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[Ajzride]

A fuel tank strapped to a milling machine makes me feel inadequate.

[Rob T]

Two things...1) I guess you got all of the explosive vapor out of the fuel tank (I'm glad) 2) The answer to the question is "because I can". I am constantly amazed by your ingenuity and resourcefulness when it comes to solving complex problems with precision. It is inspiring.

[Hobby Racer]

I finished welding the pass through tube in the fuel tank. The routing came out very good. I fabricated a new mounting point at the rear for securing the cables. Now the engine and transmission can be removed from the car without disturbing the cables.

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[Hobby Racer]

Only thing left to do is the wiring and the fuel system. :D

I routed everything on the outside of the cabin this time instead of using the center console.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182612&d=1680818586

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=182618&d=1680819487

[Ajzride]

Which ECU are you running? First post just said "existing standalone".

[Hobby Racer]

Which ECU are you running? First post just said "existing standalone".

I'm running a MegaSquirt MS3Pro ECU.

[cob427sc]

Looking great. Can't wait to hear it run and see how it performs versus the subie engine.

[Sgt.Gator]

Incredible work!

[q4stix]

Great work, I'm glad to see you make all the progress you have even with the earlier EJ setbacks

[Hobby Racer]

It always seems like the last 10% of a project takes the longest! I'm just about done with the wiring. I've completed the engine harness and the body side harness. Getting all the separate electronics to talk with each other and cooperate was a challenge. I have a standalone ECU, separate wide-band controller, drive by wire controller, dash logger and a camera system that all need to play nice together.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184512&d=1684117712

When the dash powers up it displays a nice pic of my car!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=184511&d=1684117712

[Hobby Racer]

Well I had to pull the intake manifold because the injectors would not fit into the predrilled holes. One thing about buying the cheap knock versions of things is that they don't always copy everything just right. The injector holes are slightly undersized and do not have the needed taper to allow the sealing o-ring to seat properly. Good thing I have a basic machine shop in my garage ;)

After mounting the intake back on the mill I was able to put a 60 degree chamfer on the holes using a large center drill.
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I then modified a cheap Harbor Freight step-less drill to put on a 30 degree angle just below the 60 degree chamfer, giving the o-ring an easier path to seating in the bore.
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Hoping for a first start later this week. Then I need fab an exhaust and get it to a dyno for tuning.

[Rob T]

Hobby: you can now add "tool maker" to your already impressive resume.

[Hobby Racer]

My plans for a first start this week have been thwarted. After chasing my tail for days tracking down what I thought were electrical gremlins I have found out that my ECU is damaged and needs to get shipped back the manufacturer for repairs.

Hopefully they can turn it around quickly!

[lance corsi]

Hobby, what kind of stand alone are you using? Mine is a Haltech elite 1500.

[Hobby Racer]

Hobby, what kind of stand alone are you using? Mine is a Haltech elite 1500.

It's a Megasquirt MS3Pro unit. I used it on the EZ36 engine I had prior to swapping in the Honda.

[Hobby Racer]

I was able to start the engine for the first time yesterday. It was a large weight lifted to know the engine is good. Purchasing a used JDM engine with an unknown history can be a leap of faith.

Next on my list is to fabricate an exhaust and a new rear wing support.

Chipping away at the punch list :)

[Dave 53]

I've been frantically working on my 6 speed transmission and shifter swap project for weeks now trying to get it done for a track day this Sunday. I think I'll have it done in time. It's a much bigger job than I thought it would be as all car projects are. When I start thinking about the enormity of my project, I'll just think about what you're doing to humble myself. As you say with a smiley face... keep chipping away.

[lance corsi]

I've been frantically working on my 6 speed transmission and shifter swap project for weeks now trying to get it done for a track day this Sunday. I think I'll have it done in time. It's a much bigger job than I thought it would be as all car projects are. When I start thinking about the enormity of my project, I'll just think about what you're doing to humble myself. As you say with a smiley face... keep chipping away.
Dave, as I work thru the different challenges associated with my build, I focus on the task at hand, confident that my previous work has been done to my best abilities. Timelines and goals are not cast in stone, so I take as long as is needed on each element, timelines be damned. I get the major elements in place but I don’t put a final finish on anything until the entirety of work is finished. Then and only then do I concern myself with appearances. Functionality must come first, everything else is just icing on the cake. These kits have only received minimal engineering, so this leaves lots upon the builder’s plate to accomplish. I wish things were different, but this is the hand we were dealt. Good luck on your project.

[lance corsi]

Btw, looking at the project as a whole would make most people wither. You’re doing well, so keep your head up.

[Hobby Racer]

I was going to work on the exhaust but until the body and wing support are in place I can't know exactly where to route it. So, small detour. I'm putting the body back on the car and needed to cut the rear bumper and bottom diffusor to accommodate the lowered transmission.

I'm sure it will mess up the air flow under the car some, but you gotta do what you gotta do! Nothing hangs below the bottom of the frame so I'm not too worried about hitting it on anything. At some point down the road I'll probably build a nice cover for it.

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[Sgt.Gator]

I cut mine too. I gave up on trying to make it an effective diffuser so I took it of last week. Not planning on putting it back.

[Hobby Racer]

Finished the exhaust system today. It's incredibly simple. 3 inch 304 stainless steel pipes with mandrel bends. Only needed 3 welds! I'm using the factory header, including the OEM donut gasket and spring loaded flange.

Looks just like a sink P-trap doesn't it. :)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185922&d=1686954982


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=185923&d=1686954982

[Hobby Racer]

The exhaust is wrapped and installed. Here are some pictures of the factory header without, and then with the heat shield. It's really a nicely done header with no kinks, pinch points and smooth curves. Saved me a ton of work by reusing it.

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Notice how the pipe snaked through all the supports without needing me to bend it!

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[Sgt.Gator]

Retro Racing is putting a K24 with the Honda tranny mounted transverse. They say it fits fine, they can even use oem Honda CV axles. I expect they will have pics soon.

[Hobby Racer]

Retro Racing is putting a K24 with the Honda tranny mounted transverse. They say it fits fine, they can even use oem Honda CV axles. I expect they will have pics soon.

Wow! I thought about that but my initial measurements indicated it would interfere with the rear suspension pickup points. I didn't want to mess with redesigning that geometry.

Surprised they changed from the longitudinal setup they already finish? Did they have issues with it? I do hope they post lot's of pictures!

[Sgt.Gator]

They expect to have it at some of our races by the end of the summer. If they don't post some I will take some pics and post them.

[Hobby Racer]

They expect to have it at some of our races by the end of the summer. If they don't post some I will take some pics and post them.

Good to hear you will take some pics if Retro doesn't post their own.

Do you know why they abandoned the longitudinal layout? It appeared to be completely done.

[Hobby Racer]

All the last minute things are buttoned up. Now I am going to make an appointment at the dyno shop. Hope they can get me in quickly. :)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=186548&d=1688054305

[Hobby Racer]

Ok, the tuning shop just got back to me and apparently they do not tune K-Series engines on the MegaSquirt ECU. Strange, as they list MegaSquirt and K-Series as supported but just not together apparently.

I'm in Syracuse, NY and there are NO dyno shops in my immediate area. Anyone know of a shop in the Northeast they would recommend? First hand knowledge would be great.

[roadrashrob]

I used DDA Tuned in Newburgh, NY. 3 hours from Syracuse, so not ideal. "Seven" was the tuner and loves MegaSquirt. Very hard to get in touch with though. But once I did, he was great and did the initial tune for me.

https://ddatuned.com/

His direct email was sevbuilt@gmail.com

Mention it's a FFR 818. He had met Dave as a young boy, and was so excited when I brought mine in!

Not ideal, but hope it helps.

-Rob

[Hobby Racer]

Finally got the 818R to the dyno this morning. Mechanically, everything went well. The temps, pressures etc were great and it made decent power until we ran out of injector. Around 6200 rpm the injectors max out at 100% duty cycle and could give no more. You can see in the graph below right where it happens.

My Current Setup:
Stock JDM Honda K24A
Rotrex C38-91 supercharger making ~12lbs of boost near redline
AWIC intercooler
3" straight pipe exhaust
650cc/min injectors

Made 292whp @ 7000 rpm but we were unable to add more fuel after the injectors maxed out so we limited the rest of the pulls to 6200 rpm after that. We did not even try to advance the timing since we were running out of fuel and that would only exasperate the problem.

My tuner feels that with larger 1000cc/min injectors and more timing it should make around 350whp, that's almost 400hp at the crank! This thing will be a rocket ship. :D

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=188214&d=1691009615

Tuner says its ok to take to the track so long as I set the rev limiter to 6000 rpm so I'm going to see if I can get some track time between now and the next dyno session in early September.

Here is a short run to 6200 rpm.


https://youtu.be/h-Z-V6nGfFE

[J R Jones]

Sounds like an angry bee. Does this engine have variable cam timing? I do not see a surge as I have seen on my J-V6.
What RPM are you comfortable with?
jim

[Hobby Racer]

Sounds like an angry bee. Does this engine have variable cam timing? I do not see a surge as I have seen on my J-V6.
What RPM are you comfortable with?
jim

It does have variable valve timing on the intake but we did not even try to tune that yet, so it's running at 0 degrees cam advance. There will be some more power to be had there as well!

The factory redline is 7100 rpm so I'm going to stick with that. I did remove the balance shafts and install the better K20A oil pump that is rated up to 8500 rpm but since I'm using the stock valves springs I do not want to push my luck by going any higher than the factory redline.

[cob427sc]

Who did you end up using for the tuner?

[Hobby Racer]

Who did you end up using for the tuner?

Local guy named Hal. Works out of an old school engine builder's shop that has an engine and chassis dyno on site. It's only 20 min. from my house. :cool:

https://www.dyno-shop.com/

He does not specialize in Honda, but works on most everything. Important that he was able and willing to take on my project.

[Sgt.Gator]

FYI Retro had heat related issues with their K24 turbo Miata at Qlispe. They had an aftermarket intake manifold which came with a thick gasket intended to separate the intake from the block for heat shielding purposes. However the intake cracked off a corner ear and even snapped the bolt securing that corner to the block. The issue was too much flex in the extra thick gasket. So they JB Welded the ear back on and used an OEM gasket. That worked fine in the cool morning air, but in the hot afternoon track conditions the intake manifold heat soaked, boiling the fuel in the fuel rail, and AFRs went crazy. No racing in the heat!
They are looking for heat resistant spacers for the intake-block connection and the injector rail.

[Hobby Racer]

Thanks for the heads up. I will keep a close eye on the intake air temps and the intake connections. I am using an OEM Acura MLS steel gasket so I do not expect sealing issues but heat in the fuel rail is yet to be determined.

However I do not think I will have an issue as I am using a traditional return style fuel setup so cool fuel is constantly circulating through the rail, unlike the the stock return-less setup where fuel sits in the rail until used.

[Sgt.Gator]

They run a return style too.

[Hobby Racer]

They run a return style too.

Wow. I'm at Watkins Glen on Monday and Tuesday. I'll report back any issues I come across.

[Hobby Racer]

All in all a positive first outing with the new power plant. The weather was 50% dry and 50% wet so not ideal but since it's my first time at the track since the massive carnage last summer, I'm glad to be out there again!

I put about 270 miles on the new setup and while the tune needs some polish it runs well and makes decent power considering I'm a limited to 6k revs until the re-tune with larger injectors. Others at the track loved the fact that it spits flames out the tail pipe when I shift. ;)

The temps were fantastic. During my longest session, 18 laps, I logged the following after everything came up to temperature (air temps ~ 78 F). Oil pressure stayed around 75 psi while under load. I did not seem to have any issues with the fuel boiling like Retro did.



Parameter
avg °F
max °F


Oil
221
224


Coolant
185
188


Trans Oil
158
160


Intake Air
93
101


Inter-Cooler Water (cold side)
81
84



All of my various coolers and venting seem to be doing an excellent job!

[Rob T]

Hobby: Great news on the temps. I have two measurements on my AWIC "system". The first is in the water after the radiator and pump on the way to the intercooler. The other is the IAT. I'd be interested to see what your numbers were relative to the ambient air temp at the track. My last track day in May it was between 75-80. My water temp to the intercooler was 90-94 and my IAT was 104-106. So I see about 10-15 increase over ambient for the water loop and another 10 degrees after the intercooler.

[Hobby Racer]

Hobby: Great news on the temps. I have two measurements on my AWIC "system". The first is in the water after the radiator and pump on the way to the intercooler. The other is the IAT. I'd be interested to see what your numbers were relative to the ambient air temp at the track. My last track day in May it was between 75-80. My water temp to the intercooler was 90-94 and my IAT was 104-106. So I see about 10-15 increase over ambient for the water loop and another 10 degrees after the intercooler.

I see about the same increases as you are.

[Mitch Wright]

Cool swap, I have done a couple of K24 Miata swaps, excellent engine IMO.

[Hobby Racer]

Cool swap, I have done a couple of K24 Miata swaps, excellent engine IMO.

Thanks Mitch. I think the K24 is going to pair nicely with the 818R. Next dyno session and track outing should tell the tale!

I really want to get back to VIR once the car is sorted. Didn't get much time on track during my last visit. :rolleyes:

[Hobby Racer]

Was at the dyno today with the larger 1000cc/min injectors installed. Made 328 whp @ 6878 rpm; that's about 370 hp at the crank. A bit less than anticipated but it was > 90 degrees and humid today.

I'll be back at Watkins Glen in two weeks to try it out.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189783&d=1694014434

[Rob T]

John: This looks great. I'll be curious how it feels on the track. I've had a few issues with some snap oversteer out of corners when my torque "spikes", especially when cold. Here is my dyno graph for the EJ257. I am running the lowest level tune.189781

[Hobby Racer]

Turbo's are nice in that they build torque much lower in the rpm band but they can spike the torque at times. The supercharger is nice and linear, like a naturally aspirated motor. You can clearly see where the VTEC cam kicks in though a few hundred RPM before the 5252 rpm cross over point.

[Hobby Racer]

Updated the dyno graph in the previous post with a better colored version that has RPM on the X axis instead of speed. ;)

[Hobby Racer]

Happy New Year's Eve to all. While I'm waiting for the ball to drop I thought I'd type out this post. :o

I started doing a deep dive on some of my data from the end of the season and came across a disturbing trend. I am losing oil pressure in left hand turns, starting at about 0.5 G's. The pressure drops low but never goes to zero. The data below was taken at Watkins Glen where there are 5 left hand turns. The top graph is oil pressure and the bottom is lateral G force. Every place above the red dashed line is a right hand turn and every place below is a left. You can see the clear correlation when I turn left, oil pressure drops. Never even wavers on right handed turns.

I already have a baffled oil pan from Unit2Fabrication (https://unit2fabrication.com/products/steel-oil-pan?variant=39864802607263) but it would appear that is not enough. The main issue is that I am running a pan that is designed for a transverse FWD car (i.e. the stock Honda position). I of course am running the engine in a RWD longitudinal configuration. Looks like I will be redesigning my wet sump oil system. I am either going to modify the pan to be about 2" deeper and reposition the oil pickup or design and build a swing arm type oil pickup (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23199-John-s-EZ36R-H6-818R-Build&p=408161&viewfull=1#post408161) like I did for the EZ36 engine I ran previously.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=193880&d=1704076143

[Rob T]

Hobby: this is some really interesting data. There is an "interesting" artifact in section 13 and 19. There is maximum sustained G's in both of those turns, yet the oil pressure starts to increase before the g-forces drop. Might that be because as the pressure drops, so does the flow, and the volume in the oil pan is actually increasing during the last part of the turn (oil flows back, but less being pumped out) enough that it is reaching the pick-up again? If that is really what is happening, might that give you a clue on how to proceed?

[Hobby Racer]

I only included Oil Pressure and Lateral G force in the graph to make it easy to read, but when I also include throttle position and brake force I can see that the slight rise in oil pressure before the the left hand turn events is caused by jumping out of the throttle and onto the brakes very hard. I concluded this causes extreme front to back sloshing in the oil pan, combined with a dramatic drop in load on the engine causes those "interesting" artifacts. I do not belief there is any harm as there is no real drop in oil pressure , just some instability.

[Dave 53]

Impressive g force numbers.

Any theory as to what was exceptional about the drop to 10 psi? The other data points were in the drop to 40+/- psi for roughly the same g pull.

[Hobby Racer]

Impressive g force numbers.

Thanks but I'm not near the limit yet. Still in the brake-in / testing phase. ;)



Any theory as to what was exceptional about the drop to 10 psi? The other data points were in the drop to 40+/- psi for roughly the same g pull.
Yes I do actually. That is turn #9. It is an uphill zero camber left hand corner. So basically the worst combination of factors making the oil run from the pickup!

[Hobby Racer]

I hate cutting up good (expensive) parts, but you've got to do what you've got to do to make things work.

Here I'm using a plasma cutter with a circle cutting tool to cut out a 5.5" circle under the oil pickup. Next I'll fabricate a new bottom approximately 2" lower than the original one. Think of it like putting a steel dog dish over the hole and welding it up! This will give me almost a quart of extra oil around the pickup.

193977193978193979

[Hobby Racer]

Finished up fabricating the oil pan modifications today. This is the pan before I modified it. It has a nice stainless top plate that covers the trap doors and baffles. Notice how the oil pickup is cast directly into the oil pump that hangs below the engine block.

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After cutting out a 6" section directly below the oil pickup, I fabricated an interesting extension that moves the pickup closer to the pan center. The original location favored right hand turns which would have been hard braking in a FWD Honda. The red oval represents the new pickup opening location after I weld a cover on the pickup. Note how it is oriented 90 degrees compared to the opening in the factory pickup. This corresponds to the fact that I am running the engine 90 degrees compared to the factory orientation.

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Finally I needed to make a short cone to connect the pan to the now deeper bottom. I used the 6" section I cut out of the pan and rotated it 90 degrees to use as the new base.

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Tomorrow I'll add some paint to make it pretty once again.

[Sgt.Gator]

Nice work. Glad you caught this before it went badly!

[7ish]

Nice work...

I added an accusump to my rotrex K24 RWD after seeing similar oil pressure fluctuations. Solved the problem.

There is a ton of power to be had by altering the VVT.. You will need to modify the inlet cam gear to allow about 40 degrees of advance ( pistons hit valves at 45 degrees). The AEM tuning file I sent you will give you a good starting point on the cams... I had 406RWHP from mine!


Keep up the good work.

[Hobby Racer]

Nice work...

I added an accusump to my rotrex K24 RWD after seeing similar oil pressure fluctuations. Solved the problem.



Glad I found this before any damage occurred and hoping my mods solve my oil pressure issues.




There is a ton of power to be had by altering the VVT.. You will need to modify the inlet cam gear to allow about 40 degrees of advance ( pistons hit valves at 45 degrees). The AEM tuning file I sent you will give you a good starting point on the cams... I had 406RWHP from mine!


Keep up the good work.

I added the 50 degree intake cam wheel this winter. I clayed an identical spare motor I have to check the piston to valve clearance and at the full 50 degrees advance I still had 0.070" clearance so I chose not to mechanically limit the the advance as many people do. I will get to the dyno this spring to see how much more power I can get!

[Sgt.Gator]

IMHO you should keep it @328 whp. No more than 350.

[Bicyclops]

IMHO you should keep it @328 whp. No more than 350.

More not better?

Ed

[Hobby Racer]

IMHO you should keep it @328 whp. No more than 350.

I want to find the safe limit and then I can de-tune to a reliable level. Plus I hate leaving free HP on the table ;)

[Hobby Racer]

While waiting for spring I made some finishing touches to the car. I added an on board fire suppression system and finally cut the rear deck to fit the Honda motor.

Here is an overview shot with the seats out so you can see the fire suppression system and notched out rear deck lid.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=195668&d=1707928419

There are three output nozzles for the Halon fire system. One points into the passenger compartment between the driver and passenger. There are two more nozzles in the engine bay. One on the exhaust side and one on the intake side. I designed it so that the entire system is attached to the aluminum firewall bulkhead pieces. This makes removal easy as taking out the firewall also removes the fire system without having to take it all apart.

195669 195671 195672 195673

The rear deck lid needed 1.75" notched out between the rear humps to give enough clearance for the top of the motor to poke through.

195670

[Hobby Racer]

Some of you may remember that I discovered a low oil pressure problem (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44235-John-s-JDM-Honda-K24A-818R-Rebuild&p=545605&viewfull=1#post545605) late last year while digging into my telemetry data from 2023. It showed up in hard left hand turns where the pressure would drop. It was worst in turn #9 at Watkins Glen where the pressure would dip to around 10 psi briefly.

Over the winter I redesigned the wet sump oil pan and pickup (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?44235-John-s-JDM-Honda-K24A-818R-Rebuild&p=546332&viewfull=1#post546332) to hopefully fix the issue.

I just got back from my first track day and reviewed the data. Looks like the oil system modifications have worked beautifully. :)

In the screen shot below you can see the oil pressure varies from about 72 to 78 psi everywhere on track. Highlighted is the same spot on track where the pressure dropped to around 10 psi last year and it is now 75 psi.

I'm putting this one in the win column!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=199300&d=1715513058

[Rob T]

Great News. Can't wait to hear about the rest of the track day. It is such a great feeling to be able to focus on the driving.....

[lance corsi]

This is interesting.

[Hobby Racer]

For anyone buying a Subaru 6MT and using the transmission tag to lookup the gear ratios be advised. The values listed on multiple web site are NOT always correct. A while back I purchased a JDM 6 Speed out of Legacy Spec B car (Tag #TY856WVBAA). According to RaliSpec's online PDF of Subaru transmissions it should have had the following gear ratios.

1st 3.636 / 2nd 2.235 / 3rd 1.521 / 4th 1.137 / 5th 0.971 / 6th 0.756

What my transmission really had was these ratios. While 1st was the same, every other gear was different.

1st 3.636 / 2nd 2.375 / 3rd 1.762 / 4th 1.346 / 5th 1.063 / 6th 0.842

It would not have been so bad if not for the fact that I purchased and installed a different 5th / 6th gear set based on the ratios I thought I had. Unfortunately I scrapped the original 5th / 6th gears so I had to purchase a new set :(.

I've had this transmission apart 4 times now and never actually counted the gear teeth to know for sure the ratios. Now I know and I have put it back to stock and my gear indicator works perfectly.

These are the close ratios I wanted in the first place so I guess it's all good. Just wish I didn't have to purchase two sets of 5th / 6th gears that I didn't need!

[Dave 53]

Per the builder (ZF Design), I've got 3.636 / 2.235 / 1.761 / 1.346 / 1.062 / 0.842 Final drive 3.9.

He took off the Subaru tag and now I'm "ZFD1273". I'm certain my ratios are different than the original gears in the case.

The 2.235 2nd gear seemed really good for autocross. I've only done one autocross, but I was able to hold 2nd gear when others had to go to 3rd gear (or I was just that much slower, but I had respectable times).

The 3rd gear 1.761 works really well for the "slow sharp" turns. With the old 5 speed, I had several high revving 2nd gear exits with a nearly immediate upshift to 3rd. Now I can take those turns in 3rd gear.

But, I'm feeling the highway gas milage drop with the 0.842 6th gear.

These at track car gear ratios! When I'm street driving, I usually skip 2nd and 4th gear.

[Hobby Racer]

I finally made it back to VIR racetrack. The first time I was there was with a group of 818's and it didn't go so well. I really only got a few laps in when I damaged my transmission, ending the event for me. That was also when I was running the EZ36 flat 6 Subaru engine.

This time things went much better. The Honda swapped 818R performed flawlessly. The only issue I had for the whole 2 day event was the left rear Hoosier developed a bulge on day 2. Luckily I had a set of Continental Extreme Contact Force tires with me as backup tires and was able to quickly swap them out and continue lapping.

It was 90+ degrees both days so quite warm, especially for early June. Lap times are not anything to write home about, but as what I consider a first time here I was happy with my performance.

This is a great facility, I highly recommend it if you are able.



https://youtu.be/wUA-43Y6exc

[Dave 53]

Nice!

You've got me itching for a track day in my 818. July 6 at Thunderhill Raceway 5 mile. Been spending most of my time this year on 24 Hours of Lemons stuff. Finished a 25 hour race a couple of weekends ago which was a blast.

[Hobby Racer]

Thought I'd post this nice pic of the car before it got all dirty and covered in rubber streaks!


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215466&d=1750805437

[Hobby Racer]

I mentioned in an earlier post I had to swap tires while at VIR recently. My driver rear developed a bulge in the tread, not in the sidewall which is where you usually get them.

You can see in the pic below a clear bulge in the profile shot. This is with zero pressure in the tire also! Anyone have an idea what can cause this?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215470&d=1750806362


Also of interest is that the tire slipped on the wheel. When mounted the race shop puts a line on the tire where the valve stem is. In the pic below you can see how much the bead has slipped on the rim. This happened on both rear tires but not on the front tires.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215469&d=1750806362

[Rob T]

Sticky tires, MONSTER TORQUE, Low pressure combined? Did both rears slip? Or just the one with the bulge?

[J R Jones]

In sidewall or tread, the non-elastic component of the tire is fiber or steel plies. The common failure definition is ply separation. By that one has to assume the fiber strands broke or lost bond to the rubber and the fiber is not holding the elastic material in place. Without trauma like heat or impact, the failure must be a manufacturing defect.
I expect if you request a warranty replacement, admitting to the race application would disqualify your claim.
On slipping bead to rim, was the bead installation lube appropriate? It should be air dry water-based and approved for this application. Are the wheels bead-lock type?
jim

[Hobby Racer]

Sticky tires, MONSTER TORQUE, Low pressure combined? Did both rears slip? Or just the one with the bulge?

Sticky yes, monster torque definitely NOT, pressures were 34 hot. And yes both tires experienced the bead slip.


In sidewall or tread, the non-elastic component of the tire is fiber or steel plies. The common failure definition is ply separation. By that one has to assume the fiber strands broke or lost bond to the rubber and the fiber is not holding the elastic material in place. Without trauma like heat or impact, the failure must be a manufacturing defect.
I expect if you request a warranty replacement, admitting to the race application would disqualify your claim.
On slipping bead to rim, was the bead installation lube appropriate? It should be air dry water-based and approved for this application. Are the wheels bead-lock type?
jim

Wheels are not bead lock. I'm going to assume it was the bead lube. These are older tires so I'm not even going to try to get a replacement. I already ordered up a replacement used tire so I can get some more use out of the set.

[Dave 53]

Flip the rears left to right and they will slip back into place! Did they slip in the direction of braking or acceleration? I would think the biggest forces to cause slipping on the rim would be the fronts under braking. I'll start marking my valve stem position as you have done.

I've been screwing on oil filters for 45 years and never had one come loose. But on my last oil change, the filter was as loose as one can be without leaking! I've started marking the filter with a paint line. During my pretrack inspection I did a couple of days ago (Thunderhill 5 mile July 6) the Jesus nut that holds the rear lower lateral control arms to the spindle had loosened 1/4 turn and it had 3 drops of red. I had one of those nuts come off on track even though pretrack inspection, it passed the witness paint test. I emptied an entire tube of red on the bolt after I found a replacement nut and if I have to cut that nut off some day, so be it. They absolutely need lots of thread lock and would be better with a castle nut. Witness paint once exposed my rear axle bolt loosening 1/8 turn. When I retightened, it was 1 1/8 loose! They needed a little snugging after every session. They now have castle nuts. Worth the effort to drill the axles so that they don't need to be checked after every session.

[Hobby Racer]

Flip the rears left to right and they will slip back into place! Did they slip in the direction of braking or acceleration? I would think the biggest forces to cause slipping on the rim would be the fronts under braking. I'll start marking my valve stem position as you have done.


Oddly enough they are both in the direction of accelerating. There is no way my car puts out enough torque to spin the tries on the rims! The fronts didn't move a bit.

[Hobby Racer]

I've always had an issue with wind buffeting my helmet around at speeds above 127 mph. It was so bad that at the end of the back straight at Watkins Glen, about 140 mph, that I could not see the braking markers. I just went by muscle memory I guess.

I decided to make a new windscreen with an extended section for the driver. The hope was that it would push the air stream up just enough to alleviate the buffeting at high speed while minimizing the drag introduced. I could not find the nice smoked poly-carbonate type sheeting that FFR made the original windscreen out of locally so I had to make do with clear acrylic easily found at your local big box home store (Lowe's in my case). After a bit of fiddling around scoring the sheet I was able to snap off the unwanted sections and arrive at my final shape.

The FFR windscreen goes straight across. I added a raised section in front of the driver. VIR was the first test of the new windscreen and it went well. I reached a top speed of 139.1 mph on the back straight and had perfect vision as my helmet was not being violently shook about as before. In mid July I'm back to Watkins Glen where I'm confident it will work well.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215558&d=1751031142


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=215559&d=1751031142

Any other R drivers have an issue with wind buffeting? If so, how did you address it?

[Rob T]

I have a slight problem with wind buffeting, but I am only getting to about 115 at CMP. I bought a Zamp helmet with chin spoiler, duck bill spoiler and a wing like part on the back. All of those things are stick on. They all help. The weirdest thing I had happen was a piece of tire rubber from the car in front of my at Buttonwillow at about 120. I saw it, but could not react, and it hit me square in the face shield. It was about the size of a quarter. Left a "skid mark" on my tear sheet....

[Hobby Racer]

I was at Watkins Glen on 7/15/2025 and in the first session of the day the car was twitchy the whole session and culminated in a lovely pirouette in turn 8. Turns out that in my eagerness to get out on track for the first session I neglected to check my cold tire pressures. Well that didn't turn out so well! Hot pressures taken after the spin showed that the driver side rear was 41 psi and the the others were 34 psi. Made for very odd handling, the car was darty under hard braking and the rear kept wanting to step out in the corners, which it never does.

Check your pressures first!


https://youtu.be/nAS6o78yZSc

[cob427sc]

Whoa! I almost had to change my pants just watching that one! Had a similar experience once with a 911 Porsche. Same issues and tire pressure.

[Rob T]

Been there, done that, but not tire pressure, just cold tires, cold air and a ton of power from the turbo at just the wrong time, always exiting a turn....

[Hobby Racer]

My new front fender vents just arrived from Send Cut Send. Black anodized 5052 aluminum, 0.100" thick. Can't wait to cut into the fenders to see how they look installed properly!

I could not find any pre-made that seemed right so I designed these up in CAD and had them made custom.

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[Rob T]

Those look awesome.

[Hobby Racer]

It's very nerve racking when you have to cut into your custom paint job for your next mod. Being very mindful and working slowly I was able to cut out both openings without damaging the surrounding paintwork.

I have not bent the louvers yet. I laid them in place to get a feel for how they will look. Initially I decided to mount the louvers from the underside of the fender, but after seeing them mounted on top I'm not sure which way I'm going to go!

What looks better to you?

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[Bicyclops]

I don't have fender louvers, but I mounted my hood and hump louvers underneath and I really like how it looks.

Ed

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By the way, the cutout in my trunk lid is flex ducted to my oil cooler.

[Hobby Racer]

I also have the hump louvers mounted underneath. I'll most likely do that again to match. Just thought they looks nice on top as well. Adds a clean hard line to the louvers.

[Bicyclops]

I took an artist's brush and painted the cut edges black for finished look too.

Ed

[Dave 53]

As can be seen from the videos, the natural air flow at the trunk lid at about 70 mph is high pressure at the outside of the opening - low pressure in the engine compartment. AKA, cool air getting sucked INTO the engine compartment. This is where I put my oil cooler with fans which complements the natural air flow. The cooler seems to work very well.

But, I just added engine cover louvers before my last track day a couple of weekends ago at Thunderhill and my oil seems to be about 20 hotter! I haven't re-ran the yarn test, but I think engine cover louvers increased the air pressure in the engine compartment and now air flow is OUT of the trunk lid / oil cooler. So the fans are fighting the natural air flow of hot air! Not sure what to do! I might block them making them purely cosmetic! I need to re-run the yarn test first. Or at least do a back to back test of oil temp with louvers open vs taped over.

Problem is, my clutch went out at that track day and between work, Lemon's racing and Burning Man, I don't have time to deal with it until October.


https://youtube.com/shorts/Cr6UyvagaD4?si=n-a4pn15YiNb0-6H

https://youtu.be/FUeFeJuv79E?si=SSXj5Z5rZICrD9_v

[Hobby Racer]

Front louvers are complete. I ordered special black stainless steel flat head socket cap bolts and countersunk them into the fiberglass. It gives it a nice clean look.

I'll see in September when I'm back at Watkins Glen if they make any noticeable difference in front end grip.

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[Hobby Racer]

Changes I made to the front end to increase downforce worked too well! I generated so much pressure on the splitter that it ripped itself off the car. :eek:

This pic was taken during the first session of the day. After coming in I noticed the damage and removed the front splitter completely and ran the rest of the event without it. The car was still amazingly fast and planted. It did have noticeably less front grip but I just altered my driving style and still had a great time.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=219292&d=1758669100


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New splitter is in the works. It will be mounted much better.

[kabacj]

Awesome setup!

One idea you may consider as you redesign your splitter. Although its illegal in most racing organizations, you can make a venturi under the front axle. channel the air under the car and squeeze it under the front axle. this rush of air will make down force.

you will notice that some cars have a splitter that is slightly higher in the center and even canted upward to push air under the car. Seems counter intuitive but it works.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/06ee4003-9f17-4d54-b243-ef82d3ed328d/63a628f7-85a8-416a-b850-a5dd5d3cfb1b.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://hosting.photobucket.com/06ee4003-9f17-4d54-b243-ef82d3ed328d/63a628f7-85a8-416a-b850-a5dd5d3cfb1b.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)

[driveslikejehu]

Interesting! I wondered if you had it supported out at the wings, but you did and it pulled thru the fasteners. Nothing against your splitter, but I wouldn't have thought it produced that much force in that area. I would guess the few hundred lbs front downforce was developed by the whole system; dam, splitter, hood, vents, etc.. Maybe the load cycling?
Having the same thought about potential damage, I also made mine with a few plys of woven glass on plywood. I'll keep an eye on it now.

[Hobby Racer]

The splitter I had before this one did have a few plys of woven glass on the bottom for strength and abrasion resistance and it held up better. It also did not generate the amount of down force that this one does.

I'm beefing up the mount points and laminating in large fender washers to distribute the load this time.

Heading back the Watkins Glen in early October for more testing.

[Hobby Racer]

Well the last event of my racing season ended with a broken driver side axle. :(

After the first day I destroyed the driver side rear wheel bearing. Loaded everything up in the trailer, drove home to my shop, located a replacement bearing and fixed that. Headed back to the track the next day and ran three sessions before snapping the driver side rear axle shaft. Broke it at 138 mph while in 6th gear. I was able to get off track safely and get towed back to the paddock.

Now I have a few more winter projects...

[Hobby Racer]

Started disassembling the whole back of the car to make it easier to work on. I need to take the drive-train out anyway to check and service it for next season. When I got the driver side spindle/knuckle off and CV axle out, to my surprise the axle shaft was intact and in good condition. The outer CV joint was completely destroyed. All the balls were missing and the cage and spider gear were trashed.

My theory is that the failing wheel bearing generated so much heat (and it really did, rainbow of colors) that it cooked the CV joint grease which lead to a metal on metal condition. The joint can only take so much of that before something seized and it spit out it's bearings. This felt like a snapped axle as the car does not have a posi unit so all the power went to the driver side which spun freely in the CV cup.

Now I have to decide if I want to still go for DSS axles or try and scrounge up a new inner and outer CV joints and guts.

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[jcarcustom]

Your project is really cool! I've seen a lot of people using this Honda engine in their projects.

[Bicyclops]

Wow! That must have made a lot of noise! Might be worth giving DSS a call to talk about CV joints and the strength thereof. The guy I've been dealing with is Tad.

Ed

[Hobby Racer]

Wow! That must have made a lot of noise!

Funny you said that. The tow truck driver said he could hear it over the sound of his diesel tow rig while towing me back to the pits!

[Bicyclops]

I bet. Mine was clanking pretty loud as I drove home on the other shaft at about 20mph.

Ed

[Hobby Racer]

Well it's that time of year again ... repair time!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221149&d=1762531510

Two different junk yards and 13 cars later, I have rebuilt my axle shafts. I got two serviceable outer CV joints and one really nice inner joint. So I damaged a total of three. Also put new bearings and seals in the rear spindles/knuckles and bought 2 new hubs.

221145

With the transmission out I was able to get a closer look and noticed I also damaged the differential. If you look at the 2nd pic below you can see the passenger side has a nice smooth surface. In the 3rd pic you can see the rough, gouged up surface of the driver side. So I decided this would be a great time to upgrade to and LSD (had an open diff previously). Trolled e-Bay for a while and found a nice, low mileage factory helical LSD out of a 2017 STI.

221143 221151 221150 221144

And finally I found a serious crack in the aluminum bracket that holds the supercharger on. Time to break out the TIG welder.

221148

I swear, if there is ever an off season where I don't have to take the car completely apart, I'm throwing a party and your all invited!

[Bicyclops]

Off season? You gotta be kidding. It's 88* outside. :cool:

You're running the Caddy Bremboes, right? Had any trouble with the pins? I was hearing a noise from the right rear and when I looked:

221153 221154

Maybe I didn't get them seated right in the first place, but when I pulled wheels to start disassembly for axle replacement one of them had moved a little and it's only been a few hundred miles since I made damn sure they were driven in. I'm going to make it part of my preflight to look for the pins all the way seated.

Ed

[Hobby Racer]

Off season? You gotta be kidding. It's 88* outside. :cool:

You're running the Caddy Bremboes, right? Had any trouble with the pins? ...

Funny you should mention that. I lost a pin on the driver rear. Same side I lost the wheel bearing and CV joint on track. Not sure if one thing caused or contributed to the other but it happened.

I have been running them for 4 years now and haven't had any trouble up till now. But with all the other issues with that corner, I can't fault the brakes.

I have thought about modifying them to accept a different bolt/pin that is more secure. I never liked the way they pop in / out.

[Bicyclops]

I wonder if some red loctite on the pin would help it stay in there.

Ed

[Hobby Racer]

I wonder if some red loctite on the pin would help it stay in there.

Ed

I don't think so. The fit is too lose for loctite to be effective. I'm thinking of drilling out the small end on the caliper so a same sized pin/bolt can fit through and either using a nyloc nut or safety wire to ensure the pin/bolt stays put.

[driveslikejehu]

The STi Brembos have a lock pin. You could probably drill thru to use those, or source them from a brake parts supplier.
Let me know if you need a measurement to compare
221202

[J R Jones]

I don't think so. The fit is too lose for loctite to be effective. I'm thinking of drilling out the small end on the caliper so a same sized pin/bolt can fit through and either using a nyloc nut or safety wire to ensure the pin/bolt stays put.

Two points:
* My 2004 Acura TL Brembo calipers have retainer pins wih reduced diameter at the leaf spring, so the pin is trapped by the spring. Not as secure as other methods, but it works.
* Red (and blue) Loctite is low viscosity for threads, not slip fit. To retain sliding cylindrical fit Loctite Green 680 is used. (with high viscosity) Actually it is stronger than red Loctite and I have used it for loose threads with great success.
https://next.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/products/industrial-adhesives/central-pdp.html/loctite-680/BP000000153464/variation/1835201.html
jim

[Bicyclops]

The Delco pins for the Caddy Bremboes have a split spring sleeve on the inboard end that's supposed to hold in the cavity. It isn't effective. If it's not too much trouble, I would like to have dimensions on the STI pins and lock pins and maybe a part number. One of these days it's probably going to bite me if I don't do something about it. Drilling for a cotter pin or equivalent might work.

These are the RockAuto Carlson version:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=4847313&cc=3298516&pt=1736&jsn=566&_nck=Ekt6BqBF1pwlXdx0gYlm1XyS%2BrEifIwvxWIl7Mt9zft %2BWrd9NkObIEsHN4a6uvWR8YVSWVPLJi1%2B8fqJWmq2f%2BU 7yMq5Ac8I6%2B%2BeXXst8nGzjIgjvZ0N0mG%2B8QZw28t0OUB 3zinepB6wacs4uod315GWWQvfKOq8Ye%2BB0RV%2BBBBP3ZmKD GMeo1qo%2BSXOAOJIPjw3HQM1baG48gkRuYaHAyKnUY3kvInKO qzC6pVf7a%2BVPasxl6dnIJ9mXqzEYjzpsIfOG43yjXPQUjuxc HkXycxwZaV%2BWNqALAbu2uF7hQsBnzdCHgYShlOqPLoNo3PLR 0bBPVrsD2VtODz98C%2FQyw%3D%3D

I'm just using the Delco brake pads, front and rear, and it stops. Anybody using more aggressive pads on the Caddy Bremboes?

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Ed

[driveslikejehu]

When I looked at it again, I realized the problem with my suggestion. There are cavities in the caliper to allow clearance for the pins. Here's the dims anyway, tho it looks like your calipers are wider.
The parts are just stock '06 STi
221230221231

[Hobby Racer]

I'm just using the Delco brake pads, front and rear, and it stops. Anybody using more aggressive pads on the Caddy Bremboes?


My car is strictly a track car so I can only speak to racing type pads. I have used two different pads. Both are sintered and both are amazing. The EBC pads are slightly better in my opinion and are easier to obtain as they are made in USA.

I really like the sintered type pads as they require no real bed in procedure, are good in the wet, can handle really high temps, and are are reasonably easy on the rotors (compared to a semi metallic race pad).


EBC SR21 front & SR11 rear (https://www.ebcbrakes.com/products/ebc-sintered-sr-series/)
CL RC6 front and rear (https://www.cl-brakes.com/?page_id=710&lang=en)

[Hobby Racer]

When I looked at it again, I realized the problem with my suggestion. There are cavities in the caliper to allow clearance for the pins. Here's the dims anyway, tho it looks like your calipers are wider.
The parts are just stock '06 STi
221230221231

I think something like that will totally work. Instead of using a cotter pin I'm going to use safety wire. By safety wiring the two pins together, it will prevent either from backing out, plus the safety wire is only 0.030" diameter so it should fit even without the cavities. Just going to drill the stock pins and I'm good to go.

[Bicyclops]

I think the Caddy calipers are wider than we need inside. My guess is that the CTS rotors are wider than the STI front rotors we're using. That leaves some space between the caliper wall and the pad to drill and safety. I'm going to try that the next time I pull my wheels off. Having too much fun right now.

Just so you know, I think that this is endemic to the Caddy Brembo when used with the STI rotor. When I first looked at the one making all the noise, I found all of them slightly backing out on all four corners.

Ed

[Hobby Racer]

Drilled and safety wired the Caddy Brembo pins this morning. Worked really well. One less thing to worry about while out on track!

Drilling a 0.050" hole in the center of a round pin is never easy. To help I made a simple jig to hold the pin and guide the drill bit while drilling.

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Here is how they look when installed. In the first pic I compressed the pucks all the way on the side with the safety wire to show that there is still plenty of room.

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Best part is I did not have to alter the calipers so if I needed, I could still put a stock pin back in.

[Bicyclops]

That's great! Perfect. I was thinking last night about AN4 bolts all the way through with nuts on them. As you say, the safety wire trick leaves the calipers unmodded. I ordered Carlson hardware and that has the machined step in the middle of the pins which might help hold also.

Ed

[longislandwrx]

really enjoyed reading through this thread. its like all the 818 lore is coming back to me.