Al_C
10-03-2022, 06:57 PM
It hit me at 4 AM a couple of weeks ago. It was the tune. Or at least I think it was.
OK, what’s this all about? Many of you are sick of hearing me talk about cam position sensor codes and everything else. This has been going on for some time, and hasn’t been fixed because a) I didn’t know what I was doing and b) I didn’t have much time to devote to it. Since the car ran and the problem was intermittent, it wasn’t a priority. While you may not learn anything from reading about my adventures, I hope it will at least be entertaining!
I started asking questions about the cam position sensor last fall. That code seemed to have a lot of different possible causes, and some of them were eliminated quickly. The PCM was well behaved during the late fall and until May of this year. Along with the cam position sensor code, I also got a lean condition code. It only happened twice before LCS, so I decided I’d see what the collective wisdom was at the Marriott, and you guys did not disappoint. The bottom line (from Erik Treves) was everything looks good on HP Tuners, so don’t worry too much – you won’t hurt anything.
But the problem didn’t go away. Fast forward to September, when I was done traveling and had some time to work on the car again. I called Ford, and they said to check my grounds. Where have I heard that before? I knew one of the items I needed to check was fuel pressure, but the location of the gauge on the Aeromotive regulator is inconvenient to say the least. I started asking questions about reading the pressure from the PCM and started this thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43997-fuel-pressure-reading-through-OBDII-scanner
The bottom line was that I learned that the Gen II coyote doesn’t publish that information. On a recent afternoon visiting Chuck and his Mk 3, the sun hit the car just right and we noted that the gauge registered less than 30 psi. Hmmm – should be 55. Tried adjusting the regulator to no effect. So I called Aeromotive. On that call, I learned that you can turn the adjustment screw all you want, but at less than 35 psi, nothing is going to happen. One more data point.
I had been thinking in terms of what had changed as the root cause of my problem. The only thing that came to mind was that I swapped out the fuel pump last fall with a similar model (Nuhale had an extra…). I started thinking that the pump had to be the issue. The Aeromotive tech suggested it could be the fuel filter as well. So I started asking questions about that.
Jeff Kleiner responded to that thread asking me to call him. We talked through the issues, and decided it had to be a bad pump. I started searching for information on what pump would be sufficient for the coyote. If I was going to change it, I wanted to ensure I put the right one in place.
The original pump supplied with the kit was a 155 lph model. Many people claim that works just fine, and mine did for a couple of years. Until it didn’t. I chalked that up to pump failure, but I now believe that old pump – and the existing one – are just fine. What changed was that I got a tune in September of 2021. My car is now producing 390 hp at the rear wheels, which would suggest something at or above 450 at the flywheel. Reading through this thread https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27742-Fuel-pump-for-Coyote
indicates that my lowly 155lph pump is probably not even close to sufficient.
I should have known this. It’s easy to understand why I got a lean condition. Every time I pushed it, the engine was starved. If I drove like an old man, (which I am quickly becoming) it wasn’t a problem. Hard to start? Of course. The pump isn’t providing enough pressure and volume to satisfy a cold engine. It’s even logical that this caused the cam position sensor issue. I’m no expert on variable valve timing, but I know that the system is actuated based on a number of sensors. So I could see if there was a disconnect between sensors because the fuel the PCM is expecting isn’t showing up that it might be fooled into thinking the cam is in the wrong place. My reasoning and conclusion may be way off, but I have a funny feeling there’s a connection here. The sensor I pulled out is probably still good as well.
So now to fix it. I needed a new pump. After a lot of debate and more phone calls and research, I decided to go with the 190 lph model. Yeah, I wimped out. I could have put in a 255, but then I’d need to change everything from the fuel filter back to the tank as well as a bunch of connectors. I used the kit-supplied items that included a filter with 5/16 connections and the fuel pump hanger with 5/16 and ¼ connections. We all know how much fun they are to change from underneath. Kleiner and Reynolds believe the 5/16 – ¼ lines will support a 190 lph pump, so that became the plan.
I’ve changed the fuel pump before – a year ago. This wasn’t supposed to be a big deal. I got the pump delivered and set out to do what I expected was a one-hour project. Easy.
Not so fast. When I pulled the “old” pump, I noticed that the short hose to the pump output was “slightly ajar”. In fact, it was nearly “off”. Hmmm, maybe that was the issue after all. Nevertheless, I soldiered on. I swapped the pump easily enough, but I couldn’t get it – the hanger assembly - to seat in the tank. One thing led to another and I ended up cutting out the old electrical pump connection and replacing it with the new connector because I damaged the original wires trying to get the darn thing in place. That wasn’t that tough, but I needed fuel resistant shrink wrap to cover the connection. Jim Yasko pointed me to McMaster-Carr and solved that problem. Then I finally had to re-do the hose between the pump and the hanger connection as the hose was preventing the hanger from rotating enough to get over the baffle. The new pump was just a little taller and that made the old, original hose stick out too much.
Sometimes I wonder how I ever got this car on the road. I’m still learning things. To some degree, I still don’t know what I don’t know! Nevertheless, I got everything put back together. It just takes some determination and the desire to drive it rather than look at it! I got the fuel pressure adjusted to 55 lbs. and off we went.
I took the car out for a drive this past Sunday afternoon. We did about 100 miles from home to an apple orchard and back. It was a lovely day and a wonderful drive. No codes. No problems. No leaks. No grass fires when I parked in the grassy parking lot. The only problem was that google maps dropped us on a dirt road between DeKalb and Malta, IL. What a mess. Everything is covered in a thin film of dust. While 8650 needs a good bath, I’m happy to say that I think she’s fixed!
OK, what’s this all about? Many of you are sick of hearing me talk about cam position sensor codes and everything else. This has been going on for some time, and hasn’t been fixed because a) I didn’t know what I was doing and b) I didn’t have much time to devote to it. Since the car ran and the problem was intermittent, it wasn’t a priority. While you may not learn anything from reading about my adventures, I hope it will at least be entertaining!
I started asking questions about the cam position sensor last fall. That code seemed to have a lot of different possible causes, and some of them were eliminated quickly. The PCM was well behaved during the late fall and until May of this year. Along with the cam position sensor code, I also got a lean condition code. It only happened twice before LCS, so I decided I’d see what the collective wisdom was at the Marriott, and you guys did not disappoint. The bottom line (from Erik Treves) was everything looks good on HP Tuners, so don’t worry too much – you won’t hurt anything.
But the problem didn’t go away. Fast forward to September, when I was done traveling and had some time to work on the car again. I called Ford, and they said to check my grounds. Where have I heard that before? I knew one of the items I needed to check was fuel pressure, but the location of the gauge on the Aeromotive regulator is inconvenient to say the least. I started asking questions about reading the pressure from the PCM and started this thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?43997-fuel-pressure-reading-through-OBDII-scanner
The bottom line was that I learned that the Gen II coyote doesn’t publish that information. On a recent afternoon visiting Chuck and his Mk 3, the sun hit the car just right and we noted that the gauge registered less than 30 psi. Hmmm – should be 55. Tried adjusting the regulator to no effect. So I called Aeromotive. On that call, I learned that you can turn the adjustment screw all you want, but at less than 35 psi, nothing is going to happen. One more data point.
I had been thinking in terms of what had changed as the root cause of my problem. The only thing that came to mind was that I swapped out the fuel pump last fall with a similar model (Nuhale had an extra…). I started thinking that the pump had to be the issue. The Aeromotive tech suggested it could be the fuel filter as well. So I started asking questions about that.
Jeff Kleiner responded to that thread asking me to call him. We talked through the issues, and decided it had to be a bad pump. I started searching for information on what pump would be sufficient for the coyote. If I was going to change it, I wanted to ensure I put the right one in place.
The original pump supplied with the kit was a 155 lph model. Many people claim that works just fine, and mine did for a couple of years. Until it didn’t. I chalked that up to pump failure, but I now believe that old pump – and the existing one – are just fine. What changed was that I got a tune in September of 2021. My car is now producing 390 hp at the rear wheels, which would suggest something at or above 450 at the flywheel. Reading through this thread https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27742-Fuel-pump-for-Coyote
indicates that my lowly 155lph pump is probably not even close to sufficient.
I should have known this. It’s easy to understand why I got a lean condition. Every time I pushed it, the engine was starved. If I drove like an old man, (which I am quickly becoming) it wasn’t a problem. Hard to start? Of course. The pump isn’t providing enough pressure and volume to satisfy a cold engine. It’s even logical that this caused the cam position sensor issue. I’m no expert on variable valve timing, but I know that the system is actuated based on a number of sensors. So I could see if there was a disconnect between sensors because the fuel the PCM is expecting isn’t showing up that it might be fooled into thinking the cam is in the wrong place. My reasoning and conclusion may be way off, but I have a funny feeling there’s a connection here. The sensor I pulled out is probably still good as well.
So now to fix it. I needed a new pump. After a lot of debate and more phone calls and research, I decided to go with the 190 lph model. Yeah, I wimped out. I could have put in a 255, but then I’d need to change everything from the fuel filter back to the tank as well as a bunch of connectors. I used the kit-supplied items that included a filter with 5/16 connections and the fuel pump hanger with 5/16 and ¼ connections. We all know how much fun they are to change from underneath. Kleiner and Reynolds believe the 5/16 – ¼ lines will support a 190 lph pump, so that became the plan.
I’ve changed the fuel pump before – a year ago. This wasn’t supposed to be a big deal. I got the pump delivered and set out to do what I expected was a one-hour project. Easy.
Not so fast. When I pulled the “old” pump, I noticed that the short hose to the pump output was “slightly ajar”. In fact, it was nearly “off”. Hmmm, maybe that was the issue after all. Nevertheless, I soldiered on. I swapped the pump easily enough, but I couldn’t get it – the hanger assembly - to seat in the tank. One thing led to another and I ended up cutting out the old electrical pump connection and replacing it with the new connector because I damaged the original wires trying to get the darn thing in place. That wasn’t that tough, but I needed fuel resistant shrink wrap to cover the connection. Jim Yasko pointed me to McMaster-Carr and solved that problem. Then I finally had to re-do the hose between the pump and the hanger connection as the hose was preventing the hanger from rotating enough to get over the baffle. The new pump was just a little taller and that made the old, original hose stick out too much.
Sometimes I wonder how I ever got this car on the road. I’m still learning things. To some degree, I still don’t know what I don’t know! Nevertheless, I got everything put back together. It just takes some determination and the desire to drive it rather than look at it! I got the fuel pressure adjusted to 55 lbs. and off we went.
I took the car out for a drive this past Sunday afternoon. We did about 100 miles from home to an apple orchard and back. It was a lovely day and a wonderful drive. No codes. No problems. No leaks. No grass fires when I parked in the grassy parking lot. The only problem was that google maps dropped us on a dirt road between DeKalb and Malta, IL. What a mess. Everything is covered in a thin film of dust. While 8650 needs a good bath, I’m happy to say that I think she’s fixed!